Caregivers And Profit

[+EdwardGlen]

Those CG' who are putting profit ahead of Patients will not survive just like the card mills and the $475.00 an oz dispensaries.

[Elwood P. Dowd]

I asked this same question last year as I was sincerely wanting to know

what was thought to be fair compensation, as I was considering a cg...

I got flamed.

Now, there is about a bizillion threads on this same subject.

Why not just dig up an old thread on this instead of starting yet another?

Ya know, it's the sos...

 

Today has been a roller coaster ride for me and one of the things

that ate me up was to see an elderly woman across the street,

hunched over, leaning on a tree crying because she could not

walk the rest of the way to her house (less than one block) due to

the fact she couldn't afford her heart medicine and now was too

weakened. I put her in my car, took her home.

The rest is personal but... when I see bickering about

compassion vs profit, it makes me angry.

Compensation is between patient and caregiver, period.

 

Another thing... and flame me all you want,

I've grown a thicker skin on these boards (unfortunately)...

I have the capitol to start my own grow.

I have the inclination, a big green thumb.

I also have the space for it.

I could juggle enough time for such an endeavor.

BUT;

Where I live says I can't have this 'garden' as I live

too close to a school.

I also have a plan and do not have the inclination

to move right now so,

I've chosen a cg and our contract is between us.

Many are or could become that sick elderly woman

I encountered today, that can't afford her meds...

yeah, think about that.

 

Some cg's need to get off their high horse, imho.

 

Sorry you had such an emotional day. I commend you for doing what you did for that woman, I would have done the same. I agree that it is a tragedy if someone can not afford vital medication and would do what I could to help. But there is a line. You can't take food out of your own kids mouths to help someone else.

 

But speaking of high horses: Dude, I asked a simple question and those who wanted to contribute to the (valid and important) conversation did so of their own accord. Unless im mistaken no one forced you to open the thread or read the posts or take the poll. If you don't want to participate in the conversation, DONT! If you found a Cg who can afford to do it free or cheap I think thats AWSOME, but No one is asking for your personal details with your Pt or Cg. Its a philosophical conversation about the ethics of supplying a medical product for income.

 

But its great for you that you found a way to at once demonize people for participating in the conversation AND get your digs in about the topic. Nicely done. Thats a great way for your 'horse' to get even higher. There are TENS of thousands of posts here, sorry but I don't have time to dig.

 

As to the topic at hand:

 

Perhaps, in place of the word "Profit", a more appropriate word would have been "Income". Im not suggesting Cgs get rich off patients so they can drive escalades or buy flat screens. Im asking: what makes Caregiving special in the medical industry in that it alone should not supply a living wage?

 

It's a matter of income NOT enrichment.

 

Abbe:

Your faith is your business, I'm not interested in converting.

 

But I'd love to know how you are getting through life without any source of income? Do you have free housing, free source of food, clothing etc, etc, etc, etc? I live a relatively debt free life and grow as much of my own food as possible, but I still have a mortgage and bills to pay, kids to clothe and entertain as I'm sure many Cg's do. I don't like the idea of money any more than anyone else, but I have to recognize it's position in all our lives there's just no way around it.

 

Again I ask this, as yet unanswered question: why is it acceptable for EVERY other position within the medical field to make a living from their JOB but not caregiving?

[big bud]

I GET UP TO 4 ZIPS A MONTH FOR FREE IF I CHOOSE TO DO SO AND ITS AVAILABLE-THEN I REIMBURSE $5 a gm. for anymore than that-they are very happy with the overages-this is a patient movement not a growers movement-i have to help certain aspects of my plants-genetics etc etc

If your cg is giving you that then he's got to be making money some where is think the rest is going to the black market no one can grow for free he has to pay for notes electric water sounds like a good deal for you but that's puts a bad name for mmj sorry I know what the cost are the ch has got to be making money somewhere

[imiubu]

Sorry you had such an emotional day. I commend you for doing what you did for that woman, I would have done the same. I agree that it is a tragedy if someone can not afford vital medication and would do what I could to help. But there is a line. You can't take food out of your own kids mouths to help someone else.

 

But speaking of high horses: Dude, I asked a simple question and those who wanted to contribute to the (valid and important) conversation did so of their own accord. Unless im mistaken no one forced you to open the thread or read the posts or take the poll. If you don't want to participate in the conversation, DONT! If you found a Cg who can afford to do it free or cheap I think thats AWSOME, but No one is asking for your personal details with your Pt or Cg. Its a philosophical conversation about the ethics of supplying a medical product for income.

 

But its great for you that you found a way to at once demonize people for participating in the conversation AND get your digs in about the topic. Nicely done. Thats a great way for your 'horse' to get even higher. There are TENS of thousands of posts here, sorry but I don't have time to dig.

 

As to the topic at hand:

 

Perhaps, in place of the word "Profit", a more appropriate word would have been "Income". Im not suggesting Cgs get rich off patients so they can drive escalades or buy flat screens. Im asking: what makes Caregiving special in the medical industry in that it alone should not supply a living wage?

 

It's a matter of income NOT enrichment.

 

Abbe:

Your faith is your business, I'm not interested in converting.

 

But I'd love to know how you are getting through life without any source of income? Do you have free housing, free source of food, clothing etc, etc, etc, etc? I live a relatively debt free life and grow as much of my own food as possible, but I still have a mortgage and bills to pay, kids to clothe and entertain as I'm sure many Cg's do. I don't like the idea of money any more than anyone else, but I have to recognize it's position in all our lives there's just no way around it.

 

Again I ask this, as yet unanswered question: why is it acceptable for EVERY other position within the medical field to make a living from their JOB but not caregiving?

 

Hey, what ever 'dude'

 

I think you just want to stir it up. MY OPINION.

[Elwood P. Dowd]

Hey, what ever 'dude'

 

I think you just want to stir it up. MY OPINION[/color][/size][/font].

 

 

Remember; some of us just got here.

 

It's only a dead horse if you have been here awhile. That shouldn't exclude the rest of us from having this conversation.

 

Im not trying to start trouble, I'm trying to stimulate a conversation, share ideas and information within the community to our collective benefit.

Sorry, I thought thats what this place was for.

 

if no one stirs it up, it all just sinks to the bottom

 

EDIT: Still waiting for an answer to this one: why is it acceptable for EVERY other position within the medical field to make a living from their JOB but not caregiving?

[+EdwardGlen]

 

Remember; some of us just got here.

 

It's only a dead horse if you have been here awhile. That shouldn't exclude the rest of us from having this conversation.

 

Im not trying to start trouble, I'm trying to stimulate a conversation, share ideas and information within the community to our collective benefit.

Sorry, I thought thats what this place was for.

 

if no one stirs it up, it all just sinks to the bottom

 

EDIT: Still waiting for an answer to this one: why is it acceptable for EVERY other position within the medical field to make a living from their JOB but not caregiving?

 

Historically the cannabis caregiver was a compassionate person who rendered assistance to a disabled person for no fee or a donation of the Patients choosing and caregivers acceptance and, its strictly a voluntary position not a job.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caregiver

caregiver (US, Canadian usage) are words normally used to refer to unpaid relatives or friends of a disabled individual who help that individual with his or her activities of daily living.

[big bud]

Historically the cannabis caregiver was a compassionate person who rendered assistance to a disabled person for no fee or a donation of the Patients choosing and caregivers acceptance and, its strictly a voluntary position not a job.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caregiver

caregiver (US, Canadian usage) are words normally used to refer to unpaid relatives or friends of a disabled individual who help that individual with his or her activities of daily living.

That is talking about helping them with making there food helping remember to do certain things getting them out to enjoy life not pay out of your pocket so they can live I'm on disability I would never expect some one to give me anything that cost them money it is not free to grow so that's just ignorant it was not mean what time is what there referring to not hey I'm on disability so give me everything free I no it should never cost over 250 but free neiver my pills are not free my physical therapy is not free the toilet paper I wipe my azz with is not free and when the government takes over everyone that's bitching now will see and that the government is going to put it to us. With all the fighting about it should be free its legal if you can't afford your pills you go with out if you can't afford your meds you go with out plane and simple its reality

[CedarSpringsCG]

Wow this has turned vile.

 

Saying being a CG should be done free is like saying a PT's rent should be free. Their food should be free. They should be able to go to their landlord and say, hey I am on disability, so I am no longer paying rent or utilities, you gotta cover it. Why not fight that fight, as I know PT's who pay a lot more in rent and food each month than they pay their CG.

 

Everyone assumes that every PT is on disability, but realize that some make 6 figure salaries.

 

Imi, your comment on many of us may become that elderly woman who can't afford her meds, it is sad and I am glad someone was there to help. I am 100% for single payer health systems even if it costs me more in taxes every month. That would alleviate that problem. We should all think about that next time we are at the polls.

 

Abbe, in a perfect world, everything would be free, we would all be running around naked living in abundance and be able to feed our families no matter what happened. In a perfect world, no one would be sick anyway, so this conversation would be moot.

[CedarSpringsCG]

Historically the cannabis caregiver was a compassionate person who rendered assistance to a disabled person for no fee or a donation of the Patients choosing and caregivers acceptance and, its strictly a voluntary position not a job.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caregiver

caregiver (US, Canadian usage) are words normally used to refer to unpaid relatives or friends of a disabled individual who help that individual with his or her activities of daily living.

 

If a PT wanted me to come in and render assistance for no fee or donation and they supplied their own meds, that seems reasonable if I had the spare time. I would roll j's for someone free, or pack a bowl/vaporizer free. No problem.

 

If I had a friend or relative that wanted me to stop in and check on their plants as a CG, I would do it. Their plants, their nutes, their electricity, no problem. And I would sit there and watch TV with them while I rolled some j's. That is completely reasonable and I would offer it to a friend or relative in need.

 

And the law allows for it. You can assign a CG yet the PT can retain the rights to possess the plants.

[+EdwardGlen]

That is talking about helping them with making there food helping remember to do certain things getting them out to enjoy life not pay out of your pocket so they can live I'm on disability I would never expect some one to give me anything that cost them money it is not free to grow so that's just ignorant it was not mean what time is what there referring to not hey I'm on disability so give me everything free I no it should never cost over 250 but free neiver my pills are not free my physical therapy is not free the toilet paper I wipe my azz with is not free and when the government takes over everyone that's bitching now will see and that the government is going to put it to us. With all the fighting about it should be free its legal if you can't afford your pills you go with out if you can't afford your meds you go with out plane and simple its reality

 

 

There are groups that will provide free medication if a person cannot afford it. And that last answer about not giving a dieing person medication just cemented my opinion about a lot of CG, no heart and GREEDY!!!!

[nthlghts]

This is no different from anything else, we are required as human beings to do charity. Every for profit business I have been preview to contributes to charity. So imo CG's and dispensary's are no different and should do their community service. MMJ community must set its own standards, some are already are making provisions for those that may need assistance in cost control. Nobody should be left behind!

[big bud]

There are groups that will provide free medication if a person cannot afford it. And that last answer about not giving a dieing person medication just cemented my opinion about a lot of CG, no heart and GREEDY!!!!

Groups for a individual not possible dying your words you can take it anyway you want but it will never change..

[imiubu]

Sorry you had such an emotional day. I commend you for doing what you did for that woman, I would have done the same. I agree that it is a tragedy if someone can not afford vital medication and would do what I could to help. But there is a line. You can't take food out of your own kids mouths to help someone else.

 

But speaking of high horses: Dude, I asked a simple question and those who wanted to contribute to the (valid and important) conversation did so of their own accord. Unless im mistaken no one forced you to open the thread or read the posts or take the poll. If you don't want to participate in the conversation, DONT! If you found a Cg who can afford to do it free or cheap I think thats AWSOME, but No one is asking for your personal details with your Pt or Cg. Its a philosophical conversation about the ethics of supplying a medical product for income.

 

But its great for you that you found a way to at once demonize people for participating in the conversation AND get your digs in about the topic. Nicely done. Thats a great way for your 'horse' to get even higher. There are TENS of thousands of posts here, sorry but I don't have time to dig.

 

As to the topic at hand:

 

Perhaps, in place of the word "Profit", a more appropriate word would have been "Income". Im not suggesting Cgs get rich off patients so they can drive escalades or buy flat screens. Im asking: what makes Caregiving special in the medical industry in that it alone should not supply a living wage?

 

It's a matter of income NOT enrichment.

 

Abbe:

Your faith is your business, I'm not interested in converting.

 

But I'd love to know how you are getting through life without any source of income? Do you have free housing, free source of food, clothing etc, etc, etc, etc? I live a relatively debt free life and grow as much of my own food as possible, but I still have a mortgage and bills to pay, kids to clothe and entertain as I'm sure many Cg's do. I don't like the idea of money any more than anyone else, but I have to recognize it's position in all our lives there's just no way around it.

 

Again I ask this, as yet unanswered question: why is it acceptable for EVERY other position within the medical field to make a living from their JOB but not caregiving?

I understand that you are 'new' here, yet you do sound as though you are acquainted with the workings of a forum.

This is a public forum and last I knew I could open any thread and post my opinion if I chose to.

 

No one said to take food from your children to help others, you are not forced to be a cg.

 

I did not give personal details on the relationship w/ my cg, only that it was between us.

Where do you even assume you know what you have implied about my receiving free meds?

 

You asked questions and each person who replied, replied to you in their own fashion.

If you do not like their reply, leave it... it is an opinion.

 

I demonized no one, except possibly you. For a personal 'attack' on you, I do sincerley

apologize. I'll not apologize for my opinions.

I've no high horse.

I did say compensation. What each person feels fair compensation is, varies.

 

Yes, there are 10's of 1000's of post here but, there is also a search engine.

 

I believe Medical Cannabis is a VITAL medication.

 

This is not a philosophical question, it is an ethical question and the answer lies

solely with you/ us/ we. There is no 1 answer to this question.

imo, to even compare the pt/ cg relationship with the rest of the 'medical industry' as

you put it is ludicrous! That whole 'industry' is a sham. It is all about the

almighty dollar and not actually about improving 'patients' health.

 

To be compensated is written in the Law. To make a 'living' off the backs

off others ill health is a travesty. again, jmo.

[Catfinger]

Its as simple as this:

If you are staying within the parameters of Michigan law, then you as the CG should have enough free medicine for yourself, and your patients (within reasonable limits) and still have enough overages to have a comfortable supplemental compensation available to always keep your garden at a high quality level and offer 'compassionate pricing' beyond hardware costs & bills to compensate you for the time invested. Dont get greedy and view your 'time invested' as $100's/hr and charge your patients excessive amounts to live high on the hog. Be fair and stay within the law and you and 'your family' should be able to live a comfortable life all the while offering compassion to your patients. A well crafted perpetual harvest with good logistics will never leave you in want.

[CedarSpringsCG]

Problem is, getting rid of overages is not legal. At least in a lot of judges perspective. Until there is a supreme court case or laws allowing it, it is sale of an illegal schedule 1 drug that can give LIFE IN PRISON.

 

So, until there is at least case law allowing it, you can't rightfully expect a CG to break the law just so you can get meds cheap.

[Elwood P. Dowd]

I understand that you are 'new' here, yet you do sound as though you are acquainted with the workings of a forum.

This is a public forum and last I knew I could open any thread and post my opinion if I chose to.

 

No one said to take food from your children to help others, you are not forced to be a cg.

 

I did not give personal details on the relationship w/ my cg, only that it was between us.

Where do you even assume you know what you have implied about my receiving free meds?

 

You asked questions and each person who replied, replied to you in their own fashion.

If you do not like their reply, leave it... it is an opinion.

 

I demonized no one, except possibly you. For a personal 'attack' on you, I do sincerley

apologize. I'll not apologize for my opinions.

I've no high horse.

I did say compensation. What each person feels fair compensation is, varies.

 

Yes, there are 10's of 1000's of post here but, there is also a search engine.

 

I believe Medical Cannabis is a VITAL medication.

 

This is not a philosophical question, it is an ethical question and the answer lies

solely with you/ us/ we. There is no 1 answer to this question.

imo, to even compare the pt/ cg relationship with the rest of the 'medical industry' as

you put it is ludicrous! That whole 'industry' is a sham. It is all about the

almighty dollar and not actually about improving 'patients' health.

 

To be compensated is written in the Law. To make a 'living' off the backs

off others ill health is a travesty. again, jmo.

 

 

Apology accepted. Lets be friends

 

I respect your position, though I disagree with some aspects of it. But I think I agree with more. I think enriching oneself at the expense of a patient is reprehensible, but that is not the same thing as earning a fair wage for your time. I understand that no one is forced to be a caregiver, but by that logic one could say no one is forced to do any job, but you DO need a job and if one chooses to dedicate their time to caregiving I feel it's only fair to be compensated.

 

I beg to differ on your statement about the nature of this conversation: I used the word Philosophical in the sense meant by the 4th definition in my dictionary meaning wise, calm and reasonable. However, according to the same dictionary Ethics is: the part of philosophy dealing with morals and right and wrong. So really any conversation about ethics is by its very nature a philosophical one. (sorry, I'm a word nerd) But I take your point.

 

I'm not trying to look for ONE solid answer. I already know the answer that I feel is the right one for me, but I'm interested in hearing lots of different opinions and understanding the reasons behind them. Gotta keep an open mind.

 

another question: Why are there quotes around the word new in your post?

[Elwood P. Dowd]

Its as simple as this:

If you are staying within the parameters of Michigan law, then you as the CG should have enough free medicine for yourself, and your patients (within reasonable limits) and still have enough overages to have a comfortable supplemental compensation available to always keep your garden at a high quality level and offer 'compassionate pricing' beyond hardware costs & bills to compensate you for the time invested. Dont get greedy and view your 'time invested' as $100's/hr and charge your patients excessive amounts to live high on the hog. Be fair and stay within the law and you and 'your family' should be able to live a comfortable life all the while offering compassion to your patients. A well crafted perpetual harvest with good logistics will never leave you in want.

 

 

I don't need free meds, I'm not a patient. And selling overages to anybody is illegal.

 

So those are NOT viable compensation schemes.

 

Caregivers are already taking on enormous personal risk just by growing it, without having to commit a felony just to get fair compensation.

[imiubu]

Apology accepted. Lets be friends

 

I respect your position, though I disagree with some aspects of it. But I think I agree with more. I think enriching oneself at the expense of a patient is reprehensible, but that is not the same thing as earning a fair wage for your time. I understand that no one is forced to be a caregiver, but by that logic one could say no one is forced to do any job, but you DO need a job and if one chooses to dedicate their time to caregiving I feel it's only fair to be compensated.

 

I beg to differ on your statement about the nature of this conversation: I used the word Philosophical in the sense meant by the 4th definition in my dictionary meaning wise, calm and reasonable. However, according to the same dictionary Ethics is: the part of philosophy dealing with morals and right and wrong. So really any conversation about ethics is by its very nature a philosophical one. (sorry, I'm a word nerd) But I take your point.

 

I'm not trying to look for ONE solid answer. I already know the answer that I feel is the right one for me, but I'm interested in hearing lots of different opinions and understanding the reasons behind them. Gotta keep an open mind.

 

another question: Why are there quotes around the word new in your post?

 

Cool, fresh start!

As far as the quotation marks... I don't know. Most likely I was just typing too fast and didn't do a good

proof read. I meant nothing intentional or derogatory, just a simple typo

 

I'm a word nerd too and should have checked myself on that one.. thanks for pointing it out

 

p.s. fyi, I'm a dudette

[tricloud]

This kind of thread does absolutely nothing but stir up crap within the community. I'm surprised they haven't banned these kinds of threads.

[imiubu]

This kind of thread does absolutely nothing but stir up crap within the community. I'm surprised they haven't banned these kinds of threads.

 

:goodjob:

[drtarzanmd]

This kind of thread does absolutely nothing but stir up crap within the community.

 

I'm surprised they haven't banned these kinds of threads.

 

 

If We Close it ...

 

Then we get Accused of stopping someones " Freedom of Speech "

 

As long as People stay respectable our hands are Tied ...

 

You would think that People would know that this Community

is being watched and it effects the entire Movement as a Whole ...