Jeffery Fieger

[solabeirtan]

Well let me help you understand since you don't even know what an ad hominem is.

You stated:

 

When you say "Obviously she must have cut a few corners in your educational development" you are suggesting that he is uneducated enough to understand you "enlightened" position. You are dismissing him as a person rather than countering his facts or logic. I think I commented on his Educational nuances

Now my comments:

 

Those comments were not an ad hominem because I attacked your logic that "do you think this is a good environment for raising children?" the inference being that it is not. I showed that as being incorrect as children in a country that has legal prostitution seem to be doing better than our country that does not have legal prostitution. It is rather straight forward logic and not a personal attack on you.

 

"Legalize prostitution.....why not....it will allow mothers to support families...and increase tourism." OP

 

His justification for Prostitution is to assist Mothers in supporting their Children. This is a very devisive statement and true enough the best prostitutes employ very maternal care for a fee of course. Like a nanny. Or maybe a wet nurse ? Certainly some type of a nurse or masseuse or therapist or other 'medical' type person who cures you.

 

To insinuate that a mother or someone who is struggling to raise children should have to consider prostituting themselves is Foreign to me. This would be akin to the Father of the children pimping their mother to support them all. Yes that would indicate an error in his education, imho, which is what I 'attacked'.

 

Keep up the good work bro, " ad hominum " has a variety of meanings yours included of course.

 

 

Those comments were not an ad hominem because I attacked your logic that "do you think this is a good environment for raising children?" the inference being that it is not. I showed that as being incorrect as children in a country that has legal prostitution seem to be doing better than our country that does not have legal prostitution. It is rather straight forward logic and not a personal attack on you.

It is not straight forward logic to assume the test scores are caused by their mothers increase in income due to turning tricks. It would by more logical to assume they have a better educationl environment. You think this might increase there family values ? Quality of Life ?

 

OK Pregnancy rates Less in Prostitutes, more in America. Prostitutes dont have time to care for children, They are Short Career Capitalists. Then maybe have some time to settle down? Dont have Children ? No need to prostitute ? Prostitutes take birth control, cannot become mothers very easily.

 

Nice example of Ad Hominum Tu Queoque on that one !

[+420Atheist]

Nice reply solabeirtan. Though I don't agree I appreciate the reasoned response.

 

To insinuate that a mother or someone who is struggling to raise children should have to consider prostituting themselves is Foreign to me. This would be akin to the Father of the children pimping their mother to support them all. Yes that would indicate an error in his education, imho, which is what I 'attacked'.

 

But you are making a moral judgment on the act of prostitution. You are saying "should have to" while I would say has a right to consider prostitution as a career choice. I see women as being able to make their own choices without the need for government intervention. The very idea that our government should have the right to tell two consenting adults what they can do in private is nothing short of tyranny in my opinion.

 

You still attacked him personally and that had nothing to do with the truth of the statement he made. His level of education in the matter does no prove or disprove his statement.

 

Keep up the good work bro, " ad hominum " has a variety of meanings yours included of course.

 

It is not my definition. It is the definition.

 

It is not straight forward logic to assume the test scores are caused by their mothers increase in income due to turning tricks. It would by more logical to assume they have a better educationl environment.

 

Good logic here. I even agree it is only one of many indicators.

 

You think this might increase there family values ? Quality of Life ?

 

This tends toward a moral judgment again. I don't think it is the governments place to enforce Christian values any more than it would be to enforce Sharia Law.

 

Lets look at quality of life. You are right that the Netherlands is slightly below us on the charts but lets look at the quality of life for people in countries that are higher than us on the chart.

 

Ireland - legal

Switzerland - legal

Norway - illegal (interesting the prostitute does not commit a crime but the john does like to hear your thoughts on that one.)

Luxembourg - legal

Sweden - illegal same way as Norway

Australia - legal for most states decriminalized in others

Iceland - illegal same way as Norway

Italy - legal

Denmark - legal

Spain - legal

Singapore - legal

Finland - legal

 

By my count that is a majority of countries that have a higher quality of life also have legal prostitution. In the spirit of full disclosure most of those countries place pretty strict limits on the practice. Most don't allow for streetwalkers and some do not allow for brothels. Some go even further and do not allow for any organized businesses so even a call service that can dispatch and take a cut is illegal. I actually like that model as it is very close to our caregiver model where it is kept locally and on a one to one personal level. That way no one could really say they were being exploited as it was their own decision based on their own actions with no pimp forcing them to work.

 

Nice example of Ad Hominum Tu Queoque on that one !

 

I don't believe I used a tu queoque but if you can point where I discredited your position because of your failure to act consistently with that position I will issue a public apology. I strive to use intellectually honest debate techniques.

[solabeirtan]

Nice reply solabeirtan. Though I don't agree I appreciate the reasoned response.

 

 

 

But you are making a moral judgment on the act of prostitution. You are saying "should have to" while I would say has a right to consider prostitution as a career choice. I see women as being able to make their own choices without the need for government intervention. The very idea that our government should have the right to tell two consenting adults what they can do in private is nothing short of tyranny in my opinion.

 

You still attacked him personally and that had nothing to do with the truth of the statement he made. His level of education in the matter does no prove or disprove his statement.

 

 

 

It is not my definition. It is the definition.

 

 

 

Good logic here. I even agree it is only one of many indicators.

 

 

 

This tends toward a moral judgment again. I don't think it is the governments place to enforce Christian values any more than it would be to enforce Sharia Law.

 

Lets look at quality of life. You are right that the Netherlands is slightly below us on the charts but lets look at the quality of life for people in countries that are higher than us on the chart.

 

Ireland - legal

Switzerland - legal

Norway - illegal (interesting the prostitute does not commit a crime but the john does like to hear your thoughts on that one.)

Luxembourg - legal

Sweden - illegal same way as Norway

Australia - legal for most states decriminalized in others

Iceland - illegal same way as Norway

Italy - legal

Denmark - legal

Spain - legal

Singapore - legal

Finland - legal

 

By my count that is a majority of countries that have a higher quality of life also have legal prostitution. In the spirit of full disclosure most of those countries place pretty strict limits on the practice. Most don't allow for streetwalkers and some do not allow for brothels. Some go even further and do not allow for any organized businesses so even a call service that can dispatch and take a cut is illegal. I actually like that model as it is very close to our caregiver model where it is kept locally and on a one to one personal level. That way no one could really say they were being exploited as it was their own decision based on their own actions with no pimp forcing them to work.

 

 

 

I don't believe I used a tu queoque but if you can point where I discredited your position because of your failure to act consistently with that position I will issue a public apology. I strive to use intellectually honest debate techniques.

 

Listen my friend, thank you for a stimulating conversation. I have learned numerous things, researching your arguments. I hope it was somewhat reciprocal in that respect. As we continue to grow , learn and help each other to heal, let nothing impede this persuit, it is a worthy cause.

 

"We recognise that prostitution will not end until capitalism does." This being understood and the fact that it is extremley exploitive, leaves us with the unenviable task of learning to managing it. I concede. Good Luck on that.

[+420Atheist]

Listen my friend, thank you for a stimulating conversation. I have learned numerous things, researching your arguments. I hope it was somewhat reciprocal in that respect. As we continue to grow , learn and help each other to heal, let nothing impede this persuit, it is a worthy cause.

 

"We recognise that prostitution will not end until capitalism does." This being understood and the fact that it is extremley exploitive, leaves us with the unenviable task of learning to managing it. I concede. Good Luck on that.

 

Thanks my friend, and yes I did learn something along the way here. I hope to see you on the 25th not so much for debate but to fight along side you to protect our law.

[AmishRnot4ganja]

Ok step right up lets call this what it is a "Religous Crusade". Wow what happened to the Land of the Free ? What country are you from ?

 

 

It is a religious crusade (only I spelled it right). I agree. All these "morals" laws have always been a religious crusade. Remember, only truly deserving, pious, god fearing, moral individuals get into heaven, and if you can get others to follow the moral path, your standing in heaven will be improved and God will like you a whole lot more.

[imiubu]

Listen my friend, thank you for a stimulating conversation. I have learned numerous things, researching your arguments. I hope it was somewhat reciprocal in that respect. As we continue to grow , learn and help each other to heal, let nothing impede this persuit, it is a worthy cause.

 

"We recognise that prostitution will not end until capitalism does." This being understood and the fact that it is extremley exploitive, leaves us with the unenviable task of learning to managing it. I concede. Good Luck on that.

 

 

Thanks my friend, and yes I did learn something along the way here. I hope to see you on the 25th not so much for debate but to fight along side you to protect our law.

 

 

[jimbojinx]

Listen my friend, thank you for a stimulating conversation. I have learned numerous things, researching your arguments. I hope it was somewhat reciprocal in that respect. As we continue to grow , learn and help each other to heal, let nothing impede this persuit, it is a worthy cause.

 

"We recognise that prostitution will not end until capitalism does." This being understood and the fact that it is extremley exploitive, leaves us with the unenviable task of learning to managing it. I concede. Good Luck on that.

 

Ahoy 420atheist and Solabeirtan !!!

 

Many thanks to both of you for a great debate !

 

We may not agree on the issue, but we all agree that we have the right to DEBATE the issue !

 

And to remain civil and friendly in spite of our differences !

 

We have a tremendous community here...I am constantly amazed at our intellect and enthusiasm and our devotion to making things better !!!

 

Dr. Jinx