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Experienced Caregivers Advice Please...


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The point of me posting this is to get real, informed information from people who have been doing this for a lot longer than me.

 

About me: Currently I am living abroad (my home state is Michigan), but I will be moving back there in 10 months (planning is everything). When I come home I am choosing to become a professional grower. Surely, some will read this and hate, if so please exit my post and don't comment. I am not doing this to become a millionaire or cheat the system and ruin it for others. I have more than a qualifying condition, and two family members that I will become a caregiver for. Eventually, I hope to get a max of 5 patients and grow somewhere close to 50-60 plants divided into 4 different cycles.

 

My concerns:

 

1-In Michigan I can grow for 5 patients and hold 2.5 ounces per patient. If I am growing the numbers I expect to grow, I will have overages. I am concerned about the proper, most legal, or legitimate way to distribute my overages or to store my overages. Also, just to clarify if I am a patient and a caregiver to 5 others, my max plant count is what? 72?

 

2-Power consumption. I've read pay your bills and your fine. I've read don't consume over a certain amount of electricity and your fine. What is the best rule of thumb for this?

 

3-Do you have to grow in the same address that you registered with? My thinking was/is to rent a second home and do my growing there. Is this a stupid or inefficient way of approaching the grow?

 

4-I am missing many things but that is why I am planning ten months in advance. PLan, plan some more and then re-plan. Any advice, things Im missing, or suggestions?

 

Sincerely thank you to any who read and reply.

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When you get back to MI and get your grow setup, you will have plenty of time to survey the landscape and find the optimal way to distribute overages.

 

The discussion on 72 Max or 60 Max is ongoing. I have heard both. 72 makes sense for a patient who is also a caregiver for 5 (1+5)x12. Whereas 60 is the safe play.

 

Pay your bills on time is good business practice and should be recommended for all.

 

Fairly certain the address of your grow will be on file with the state and possibly available to your patients.

 

I kind of feel like I was less helpful with my answers than I intended. Sorry. Hopefully someone will jump in to clarify.

 

Good Luck

 

T4

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The point of me posting this is to get real, informed information from people who have been doing this for a lot longer than me.

 

I have more than a qualifying condition, and two family members that I will become a caregiver for. Eventually, I hope to get a max of 5 patients and grow somewhere close to 50-60 plants divided into 4 different cycles.

 

My concerns:

 

1-In Michigan I can grow for 5 patients and hold 2.5 ounces per patient. If I am growing the numbers I expect to grow, I will have overages. I am concerned about the proper, most legal, or legitimate way to distribute my overages or to store my overages. Also, just to clarify if I am a patient and a caregiver to 5 others, my max plant count is what? 72?

 

2-Power consumption. I've read pay your bills and your fine. I've read don't consume over a certain amount of electricity and your fine. What is the best rule of thumb for this?

 

3-Do you have to grow in the same address that you registered with? My thinking was/is to rent a second home and do my growing there. Is this a stupid or inefficient way of approaching the grow?

 

4-I am missing many things but that is why I am planning ten months in advance. PLan, plan some more and then re-plan. Any advice, things Im missing, or suggestions?

 

Sincerely thank you to any who read and reply.

 

 

First off - find and read the city and county memoriams and ordinances for or against Medical Marijuana Enterprises - even though it is legal in the state of michigan, some cities have imposed restrictions. You may not want to move to Royal Oak for example - there it is banned to grow as a CG. You might want to check out Gennessee County, St. Clair County, Macomb County, etc.

 

Depends on how you grow, and the quality of the yeilds, you don't have to grow maximum plant counts to service your patients. When you are calculating 2.5oz per patient - you forget, "Will your patient consume 2.5 ounces in a 3 month period?" Some will not, some will need more than other patients in your group, but it balances out. Your plant count will include cuttings you intend to manufacture into clones, clones, vegging plants, and flowering plants. You will have 'un-usable' material drying and curing, you will process some usable material into hash, tinctures, cooking oils. Those that try to overgrow, or grow maximum plant count will usually find issues like powdery mildew and mites - because they were overcrowded, and could not inspect their plants. Think QUALITY, not QUANITY.

 

You mention that you will be a patient - this opens the option of P2P - patient to patient transfers. So now you can move overages at a farmer's market or help an individual patient that is not connected to you as a CG/patient. There is a demand for quality medical grade marijjuana at a good price - so the market is open!

 

electricity - don't steal it, pay your bills, and have a qualified person check your setup so you don't burn it down.

Since judges understand that there can be legal growing operations, certain old rules do not apply to search warrants - stems, roots, and seeds found in trash, heat signatures from homes, smell of marijuana, etc. Officers are to STOP and contact the court and notify them if they encounter a person with a MDCH MMMP card or paperwork at a grow or possession.

 

You are not required to grow at the address on your MDCH MMMP application, it is a mailing address. You may not even be required to grow at one location, you could setup grows at patient's homes, providing you have paperwork posted to indicate you are the CG. Do you need to rent a second place? Why pay for two places. Just buy the perfect house - with a greenhouse in back!

 

Depending on where you plan to move, you should make contact with patients, CGs, and leaders of a decent compassion club in the area. You should focus your future on farmer's markets, being a professional CG, and certainly growing the best organic meds.

 

check out www.thc4u.com

 

-DN

Edited by The Digital Nomad
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The point of me posting this is to get real, informed information from people who have been doing this for a lot longer than me.

 

About me: Currently I am living abroad (my home state is Michigan), but I will be moving back there in 10 months (planning is everything). When I come home I am choosing to become a professional grower. Surely, some will read this and hate, if so please exit my post and don't comment. I am not doing this to become a millionaire or cheat the system and ruin it for others. I have more than a qualifying condition, and two family members that I will become a caregiver for. Eventually, I hope to get a max of 5 patients and grow somewhere close to 50-60 plants divided into 4 different cycles.

 

My concerns:

 

1-In Michigan I can grow for 5 patients and hold 2.5 ounces per patient. If I am growing the numbers I expect to grow, I will have overages. I am concerned about the proper, most legal, or legitimate way to distribute my overages or to store my overages. Also, just to clarify if I am a patient and a caregiver to 5 others, my max plant count is what? 72?

 

Correct on plant count. In terms of "overages," as a patient you can transfer medicine to any other qualifying patient. (Some here still say this is a 'gray area' in our law, but patient to patient transfer is a pretty widely accepted practice.) Also, many dispensaries will purchase overages, but dispensaries aren't supported by all, including many on this site, as legal. Finally, some communities and compassion clubs host farmers markets where card carriers can come to transfer meds to other patients.

 

2-Power consumption. I've read pay your bills and your fine. I've read don't consume over a certain amount of electricity and your fine. What is the best rule of thumb for this?

It absolutely does not matter how much electricity you use as long as you don't steal it by hooking up an illegal connection and as long as you pay your bill. If you're planning on expanding to a dozen+ 1,000 watters, you might need to upgrade your grow facility's electrical supply and wiring, but no worries about the electric company. They LOVE taking us growers' money!

 

3-Do you have to grow in the same address that you registered with? My thinking was/is to rent a second home and do my growing there. Is this a stupid or inefficient way of approaching the grow?

You do NOT have to grow at the address you are registered to. Off site grows offer their own unique benefits and challenges. Ultimately only YOU can decide what works best for you. You coujld also consider renting a PO Box to use for all your paperwork and registration processes. That is what I do.

 

4-I am missing many things but that is why I am planning ten months in advance. PLan, plan some more and then re-plan. Any advice, things Im missing, or suggestions?

Plan, plan, plan, then be prepared to change everything when you actually get started. Not sure if you've grown before or not, but until you've got the garden up and running, your plans are at best "educated guesses." Also, in the law enforcement and political environment here, the ones who tend to have the fewest problems are those who still grow "like its illegal." In other words, cover your smells; don't tell ANYONE; dear GOD Don't let anyone see your facility; don't go driving around in tie-dye t-shirts in a VW smoking doobies... Keep it LOW KEY!

 

Good Luck!

Sincerely thank you to any who read and reply.

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So if someone is a decent grower, getting 2oz+/plant, staying within the laws with thier plant count but experience impending overages, should they just not be concerned? (just a rhetorical question that has nothing to do with the topic)

 

I have, myself + 2 patients, and I run cycles (perpetual grow). You'll find that running a perpetual grow will significantly help you stay within the confines of the law, as all your meds wont be coming off for harvest at the same time. In this type of grow some of your 'plant count' will include clones, veg plants and your cycles in flower (I run 3 cycles, harvesting plants approx. every 23 days)

 

You do not have to grow at the same address that you are registered with but remember when you are thinking security that if you are 'off site' you leave your grow vulnerable to a point. Just remember to take good security measures if you choose to do your grow off site.

 

I dont know the 'rule of thumb' with respect to the elec. bill, but I have (2) 1000's, (1) 400, and a 4ft 6 bulb T8, 8" inline maxfan, 6" inline fan, (2) 4" inlines, 14000 BTU air conditioner, 30 pint dehuey, plus rest of small building with office and elec bill is approx between $450-550. Most of my electric consumption is in NON-peak hours of electric use. This cuts down on the per/unit price for the electricity AND since it is mainly evening hours it allows me to not compete with the hottest parts of the day during my flower rooms 'on' time.

 

I still dont understand how growers who say they are following the letter of the law but harvesting 72 or even 36 plants at once can stay within the weight limits once those meds are harvested.

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Marijuana (Schedule I)

 

QUANTITY : 1 to 49 plants

 

1st OFFENSE: Not more than 5 years ,

Fine not more than $250,000, $1 million other than individual

 

2nd OFFENSE: Not more than 10 years

Fine $500,000 if an individual, $2 million if other than individual

 

==================

 

QUANTITY : 50 to 99 plants

 

1st OFFENSE: Not more than 20 years

If death or serious injury, not less than 20 years, not more than life

Fine $1 million if an individual, $5 million if other than an individual

 

2nd OFFENSE: Not more than 30 years

If death or serious injury, mandatory life

Fine $2 million if an individual, $10 million if other than individual

 

==================

 

QUANTITY : 100 to 999 plants

 

1st OFFENSE: Not less than 5 years, not more than 40 years

If death or serious injury, not less than 20 years, not more than life

Fine not more than $2 million if an individual, $5 million if other than an individual

 

2nd OFFENSE: Not less than 10 years, not more than life

If death or serious injury, mandatory life

Fine not more than $4 million if an individual,

$10 million if other than an individual

 

Copy & Paste from :

 

http://www.justice.gov/dea/agency/penalties.htm

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Big thanks to posters #3-#6 you guys really answered my questions and I am very thankful. I have an appointment with a lawyer (reputable) next week, so I can ask specifically about the county and some other points raised by the members. Again thank you. If anyone has a question for the lawyer I would be more than happy to ask for you and report back. Let me know. Any other opinions?

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It is inevitable to go over if you are a decent grower, however moving the overages you are talking about is going to be hard to stay legal.

 

The setup I think you will end up in is about 6 mothers, 9 in clone, 18 in veg, 36 in bloom. Puts you at 69, and it is always good to stay a few below limit. But that puts you in to harvesting 9 plants each cycle, and if your just an OK grower you will hit at least 2 lbs off of that, double your limit. If you are raided before you move that 1 lb, you will go to jail, and affirmative defense won't help much because the overages aren't for "your" patients.

 

Quantities over 15 oz when you have 5 pt's and you are a pt are considered over limit. You would be better off harvesting more often and lower amounts, like 8 cycles with 4 plants a harvest. Or if you are a full time CG, harvest 2 plants twice a week maybe?

 

At least freshly cut plants, and ones that aren't cured yet you can argue aren't "usable" yet. Might not get a jury to agree, but you can argue it. Most dispensaries won't touch anything that isn't ready for sale, I.E. full cure on it already.

 

Catfinger - There is no way to stay within the Section 4 limits harvesting 36 plants, even at 2 oz each. Those people (imho falsely) think that they can argue that they need that much weight to ensure a "constant uninterrupted supply". No one needs 12 lbs for 6 people for 2 months. Not even simpson oil would consume that much. 1 LB of bud made into simpson oil should produce enough for 3 months for a single person.

 

Be careful of working with Dispensaries that will take more than a few oz at a time. They are probably operating illegally, over limit, etc, and if they get raided, they will have no problem rolling on you to take a few years off their sentence. And if you sell them more than 15 oz at a time, you broke the law by transporting/possessing/delivering more than you were allowed by state law.

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CedarSprinsCG- excellent information!!! So basically your saying to harvest less plants but more often and hopefully "move" the overages as quickly as possible? If you sell to the dispensary, lower amounts are the way to go it sounds? Thx!

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Yes, I am not currently doing it, but I have sold to a dispensary once, and they wouldn't take more than 4 oz, and that was only because he really really wanted what I had. Practically begged for it :)

 

So, yeah if you have 1 lb extra, you would probably have to hit 3-4 disp's before getting rid of it all, and if you have 2 lbs extra, 7-8 dispensaries. Unfortunately you can't possess, even at home 2 lbs of usable MMJ, so what do you do?

 

If you go to dispensaries that will take as much as you can give them, multiple lbs, etc, I would be very careful how much information they had because a) your breaking the law bringing them multiple lbs, and b) they will have no problem rolling on you to reduce their sentence when they are busted. And they will be busted eventually if they are breaking the law like that.

 

harvest small batches, often, and move it as fast as you can. Give your PT's discounts for taking wet buds and drying/curing themselves.

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It is inevitable to go over if you are a decent grower, however moving the overages you are talking about is going to be hard to stay legal.

 

The setup I think you will end up in is about 6 mothers, 9 in clone, 18 in veg, 36 in bloom. Puts you at 69, and it is always good to stay a few below limit. But that puts you in to harvesting 9 plants each cycle, and if your just an OK grower you will hit at least 2 lbs off of that, double your limit. If you are raided before you move that 1 lb, you will go to jail, and affirmative defense won't help much because the overages aren't for "your" patients.

 

Quantities over 15 oz when you have 5 pt's and you are a pt are considered over limit. You would be better off harvesting more often and lower amounts, like 8 cycles with 4 plants a harvest. Or if you are a full time CG, harvest 2 plants twice a week maybe?

 

At least freshly cut plants, and ones that aren't cured yet you can argue aren't "usable" yet. Might not get a jury to agree, but you can argue it. Most dispensaries won't touch anything that isn't ready for sale, I.E. full cure on it already.

 

 

If that's the way you want to count, then you really need to account for some part of the processing/curing time against your quota. That would mean clone/veg/B1/B2/harvest&cure, for a minimum of 5 periods in a perpetual system. Allowing for Mom's and a little wiggle, that's 12 per cycle - phased into harvest at 3 plants per week, that would be manageable and legal even with the 15oz limit.

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You can possess 72 plants if you are a patient as well. Each patient can possess 2.5 ounces. You can possess 2.5 ounces for each patient (which includes you again if you are a patient). There is no such thing as overages. For example, I pull my girls, trim the root balls back to a manageable size, wrap the balls in plastic ( to keep them from contaminating the plant material) and then use Tyvek to create an envelope to contain the plants themselves. I use Tyvek because of its vapor barrier effect; if the plant becomes too dry I can add celery, iceberg lettuce, even a wet cotton towel or other neutral odor water source to moisten them back up, and the Tyvek allows the excess water to breathe out of the envelope without allowing other vapors, odors, etc to enter and contaminate the plant. I only trim off what I need; the rest is left in whole form on the hanging plant. This causes the plants to count against your legal plant total, but not your usable amount total. Because I grow in a greenhouse, I harvest very large plants, so this technique is a must for me, as one plant can produce up to 4 pounds; grow 50 plants in this manner and you can see why I do this. And LEO has seen and inspected my operation and know I do not violate the law in any manner.

Seeing that you intend to grow indoors, you should have no need for this technique and should be able to maintain legal amounts at all times. Because you will be a patient, you can conduct P to P transfers with no issue to patients outside of your registered patient base.

Now, a caregiver who is not a patient is forced to transfer by the statute to his registered patients only. But this is easily resolved; you can simply transfer to one of your registered patients who then can transfer to any other patient. Just remember that selling an amount of marihuana is illegal in any manner; transferring ownership of medicine for a transfer fee, service cost, etc is legal. As long as the wording is correct, you have no worries.

And please, stay away from dispensaries. They are not covered by the law, and the feds are building rock solid RICO cases against them. The average dispensary in Michigan is federally indicted within a year or so. Not one dispensary which opened in '09 is open today. Once they enter federal jurisdiction the words "medical, marihuana, patients, caregivers" or anything pertaining to the state law is null and void in federal court. Besides, they charge exorbitant prices and do not truly care for patients; they care about money. A true caregiver knows his patients and cares about their well being.

I have nothing to do with them nor will I. I give medicine to my patients and terminally ill patients, along with glaucoma sufferers as well. I charge them nothing. To take money from the very sick and dying is a sad thing.

Edited by Scooter
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Hey thanks again guys/girls, lot of good info. This site is nice bc the information is provided by those from Michigan...well I hope lol. Any links or articles someone can point me to for a perpetual grow like maybe every two weeks or even one week? I have found some but Im looking for more detailed info. Thanks~

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A perpetual grow of one week or 2 would be tough under the Michigan MM statutes plant limit requirements, but it could be done if a CG had close to or the maximum amount of patients. I helped 4 patients start a grow operation that has a staggered 3 week harvest cycle, but they have to stick with Sativas as most Indica flowering cycles are a few weeks longer. They have began experimenting with some Indicas and auto-flowers ( sorry, I'm not a big AF fan ), I'll try to give you all an update as to how they do.

Edited by Scooter
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All this time I was under the impression Sativa strains took longer.

 

A perpetual grow of ONE or two weeks would be insane to keep rolling (two is realistic). First off you'd have to take clones ALL the time, no less than once-twice a week just to have full size vegged plants ready every one-two weeks.

 

In my 3 cycle perpetual grow I clone everytime I put another cycle into flower (every 23 days) and thats for those babies to be ready TWO cycles later. 10-14 days rooting, then 3 weeks in veg then into flower. You would have to have more than one main veg light or put mulitple sets of cycles under the same veg light to be able to have and put full size plants in every 7-14 days.

IMO, once you go beyond 3 cycles you'd have to have even more hardware (more costs) and time to keep that type of cycle running.

You can put 3 cycles under 2 lights. A cycle can go directly under light #1, (23 days later) a cycle can go directly under light #2, (23 days later) a cycle would go directly in between light #1 & #2. The cycle that would go between the lights would only be under 'crossover' light for 23 days, triggering the start of flower. When you bring in the next cycle you'd end up harvesting the first cycle, move the 'crossover' plants directly under a light then bring in your next cycle and it starts in between the lights again. So for 23 days in flower you 'could' have a cycle in between two lights then when you harvest move those directly under lights for final 45 days.

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All this time I was under the impression Sativa strains took longer.

 

A perpetual grow of ONE or two weeks would be insane to keep rolling (two is realistic). First off you'd have to take clones ALL the time, no less than once-twice a week just to have full size vegged plants ready every one-two weeks.

 

In my 3 cycle perpetual grow I clone everytime I put another cycle into flower (every 23 days) and thats for those babies to be ready TWO cycles later. 10-14 days rooting, then 3 weeks in veg then into flower. You would have to have more than one main veg light or put mulitple sets of cycles under the same veg light to be able to have and put full size plants in every 7-14 days.

IMO, once you go beyond 3 cycles you'd have to have even more hardware (more costs) and time to keep that type of cycle running.

You can put 3 cycles under 2 lights. A cycle can go directly under light #1, (23 days later) a cycle can go directly under light #2, (23 days later) a cycle would go directly in between light #1 & #2. The cycle that would go between the lights would only be under 'crossover' light for 23 days, triggering the start of flower. When you bring in the next cycle you'd end up harvesting the first cycle, move the 'crossover' plants directly under a light then bring in your next cycle and it starts in between the lights again. So for 23 days in flower you 'could' have a cycle in between two lights then when you harvest move those directly under lights for final 45 days.

 

Oops, sorry, too many tabs open and I had a neuron gas discharge. You are correct; I meant Sativas, not Indicas. Indicas have the longer cycle. My apologies.

Edited by Scooter
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  • 2 weeks later...

I am just getting started as well my concern was the overages. I was wondering if I would have difficulty selling to a dispensary. I was also wondering what they would pay for the overages. I was guessing around 200 a oz. If that is correct that would be great and would cover my start up costs. Any insight from people selling to dispensarys?? Is a contract involved? Do they expect your overages after you supply them once? Any other insights on Overages would be helpful. Thx.

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Pausarelli, you never have to take any overages to a dispensary. Not only will needy patients donate the same amount you spoke of for meds but you would also take out the middle man and provide directly to the sick and needy. Since you are already on this site just become for familiarized with it and you will realize all the tools you need are probably here already, even people who would gladly help you part with your overages. Just post a forum or meet at one of the Compassion Clubs and then you would be able to meet and greet directly the people you would be helping.

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Welcome " Pausarelli " to MMMA 2.0

 

Please try attending as many Compassion Clubs as possible ...

 

It's a Great place to meet new Friends and a Great place

to ask personal Questions ...

 

It takes time to learn how to grow , So that your not w/

too much overages ...

 

Ive been at it for almost two years and Im still learning ...

 

Im sure your Patient's would be willing to give you $200

for them ... Im sure anyone here would too , if your Meds

are Good ?

 

Remember that your Allowed as a Caregiver to Hold 2 1/2

oz's for each patient just incase their needs may very ...

 

Plus its a Good ideal to hang onto some just

in case of a Emergency ... Better Safe then Sorry ...

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  • 2 weeks later...

Quick question.. Is it true that because of the supposed "grey area" of the law Can a CG freeze their harvest in vacuum sealed packs in a chest freezer? Since that would not make it usable? I mean when it thawed it would not be dry and "usable" it would be wet..

I have heard that people have considered this?

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