Retro Active Card Issues ?

[The Digital Nomad]

1. Doc's rec is good for 1 year.

2. Once the doc's rec is current for this year, you have Affirmative Defense for medical use.

3. The LEO did use A LOT of intimidation tactics in this well written story (good job) - I almost doubt they had you sign a warrant? Did they bluff their way in? When they asked if they could take something, you said yes? They were trying to find about $5,000 worth of stuff to seize, so you would pay the $5,000 fee to get your stuff back. If they only take $1,000 worth of stuff, you might as well let them keep it.

4. This is important to talk with family, spouse and friends BEFORE the police come - WHAT TO SAY, WHAT NOT TO DO. Repeat after me - "I want a lawyer, I want to remain silent - I do not consent to this search - You are hurting me!" Your spouse could very well say the one thing they just needed to complete their raid - "Oh, yea he does P2P."

 

You need a lawyer because these LEO are not showing you any dignity and respect, they will continue to lie until you get adequate legal representation.

 

BTW - 2 common reasons many grows were exposed - Loud Music and Smell. (others were plain view and pissed off spouse/family/neighbors)

 

DN

[The Digital Nomad]

Oh that 60 day thing? You cannot renew your MMMP card prior to 60 days. Within 60 days of expiration, the MDCH is supposed to send you a package. I got my 60 day renewal package 30 days before it was to expire. Some patients say they never recieved a renewal package.

The MDCH says if you try to renew before the 60 days, it will be rejected - no early renewals.

Yes, you have to renew your doctor's rec every year. You can see how this can be cost prohibitive for poor or people living on "less than life substainable income" - $80 to $125 seems to be the going rate for Doc's signing renewals. SSD/SSI means that they only have to pay $25 to the MDCH as well. For many of us, our health is not going to change or improve every year.

 

DN

[peanutbutter]

Let's use this thread to help other cardholders avoid being busted due to expired cards. Here's what to do. Patients and caregivers wishing to renew their ID cards need to understand that the state gets 15 days to approve or deny an application (whether new or renewal) plus they get 5 days to notify you in writing, totaling 20 calendar days for processing from the date the state -RECEIVED- your valid application. This means applicants must get a dated, signed official receipt that LARA-MMMR -RECEIVED- your application at least 20 days -PRIOR- to your current ID card expiration date. Otherwise once your ID card (and perhaps a caregiver card) expires you no longer have MMMA protection until you reapply and wait the 20 days granted to the state. That's the gap in legal protection you must avoid.

 

Small correction that may impact the case of this patient.

 

This is chat the law says:

(b) If the department fails to issue a valid registry identification card in response to a valid application or renewal submitted pursuant to this act within 20 days of its submission, the registry identification card shall be deemed granted, and a copy of the registry identification application or renewal shall be deemed a valid registry identification card.

 

The difference is how the dates are counted. The law says from the date of submission. Not the date the department receives the application.

 

To file your income taxes, you must submit your 1040 by midnight of April 15th. It is considered by state and federal law to have been submitted at the moment it is in the hands of the US postal service.

 

It isn't when they receive it. It isn't when they get around to cashing the check. Although that is a convenient method to prove you have indeed filed and it is considered a same moment to start the twenty day count.

 

It's twenty days from submission. Not 20 days from when they received it.

 

That makes a few days difference in the date count. And in this case, it might make a large difference.

[peanutbutter]

Section four of the law requires the patient have a registry ID card to be protected.

 

It does not say it must be a valid card. Only that it has been issued by the MDCH.

 

Bill Schuette has pointed this out and has requested that the law be changed to require the card to be valid.

 

Does anyone think this request by Bill Schuette to be of value in a court?

[WEBASSASSINX]

i am broke ... have no transportation anymore ...

shortly after all of this happened my father passed away ... closing the family business and putting me out of work and home ... on top of all of that i have been having more and more medical problems and they just don't care .... my lawyer does not seam to optimistic about my case ... there is nothing that i can do now ... i cant afford to do anything ... i am going to end up in jail for following the dam law to the letter and believing that police officers would do there job and not be lying prick donkey hole pieces of bunny muffin

 

just goes to show what freedom is all about ...... how much money you have to fight ! those who have nothing get messed in the donkey

[WEBASSASSINX]

and to be real frustrated .... since 2009 i have had 2 harvests come in totaling 5 plants ... mites have totally been killing everything we have tried liquid ladybug and a few other things but they keep coming back and killing everything and delaying my crops ... it's one thing after another ....

[WEBASSASSINX]

my card expired on oct 1st they were there the 9th or 10th i think .... i sent out my dr's cert the next day and the check was cashed 2 days later ... but all i had when they were there was a expired license and my dr's cert that i had just got .... but inset the dr's cert enough the police say no

[jayt]

It likely would have happened anyway expired card or not. I wouldn't beat yourself up on that anymore. What's done is done. Fact is you have a valid card that covers the dates in question. You need to make sure it is seen. If you have the opportunity you need to explain how you have fully complied with the law. You did nothing illegal, never have and never would. You don't do anything that might be in a gray area of the law.

 

I never received a packet from MDCH or LARA. My renewal has always gone in about 75 days before the expiration. It has never been rejected but it also has never arrived before the last card expired. So I don't know why I send it early. Judging from the LARA site they don't work on them based on when they are received but based on the expiration. That means it will be late even if I sent it in a year early. But I don't like the idea of having a lapse between cards.

[Stingray]

WEBASSASSINX your story disgust me to the point of anger. My biggest condolences go out to you.

 

I know you keep saying you can't afford a real lawyer but you need to understand the court fines and fees you are about to suffer are going to be more than that of an honest lawyer. You should at the very least go talk to one (most wont charge you to just look at your case). You should know that some lawyers will take payments and work with you financially. I know you are down to the last few weeks but again you've got nothing to loose from just talking.

 

From all that I just read I know my lawyer would very confidently take your case to trial.

[Stingray]

Would also like to add that court appointed attorneys are the lube on the penis that rapes you. You can only trust them to do what's easiest for them. Taking it to trial and is more work for him and if you loose it gives him a bad track record (they like to be able to say they never loose a case). You have to convince a jury of your innocence not the butt plugs wearing suits.

[+Green Cross]

It's twenty days from submission. Not 20 days from when they received it.

 

Sorry PB, absolutely it's 20 days from when the state Registry -receives- apps/renewals.

 

Used to be we could get them stamped "Received" in person at the Registry, but now we have to mail them and rely on USPS dated receipts. That's why it's critical applicants send in apps via US Post Office using 2 special items, a Certified Mail and a green Signature Return Postcard. That postcard has a line with a date it was -received- and signed-for, a line to print the agent's name, and finally a line for the Registry agent to sign. Normally it comes back with a rubber-stamp signature but it counts.

 

For example, you may have submitted an app/renewal on a Friday and got a Certified Mail dated receipt for the Friday. But the app/renewal won't arrive at the Registry until the next Monday, when an agent signs (stamps) they received it, then they put your green postcard back in the mail to you. It would be dated as -received- that Monday and your 20 day waiting period begins with Tuesday as Day One.

[Dilligaf]

When I pay my taxes it is considered "submitted" as soon as it's postmarked. Your 20 days begin the day you mail it if you have proof of that date (the registered mail receipt). The other evidence establishes a chain of events but it's submitted the day you mail it.

 

Mike

[peanutbutter]

Sorry PB, absolutely it's 20 days from when the state Registry -receives- apps/renewals.

 

Used to be we could get them stamped "Received" in person at the Registry, but now we have to mail them and rely on USPS dated receipts. That's why it's critical applicants send in apps via US Post Office using 2 special items, a Certified Mail and a green Signature Return Postcard. That postcard has a line with a date it was -received- and signed-for, a line to print the agent's name, and finally a line for the Registry agent to sign. Normally it comes back with a rubber-stamp signature but it counts.

 

For example, you may have submitted an app/renewal on a Friday and got a Certified Mail dated receipt for the Friday. But the app/renewal won't arrive at the Registry until the next Monday, when an agent signs (stamps) they received it, then they put your green postcard back in the mail to you. It would be dated as -received- that Monday and your 20 day waiting period begins with Tuesday as Day One.

 

The words received and submitted are in two different locations and two slightly different topics.

 

One topic is what takes place when the MDCH fails to do it's job.

The other is the limits that are placed on the MDCH to do it's job.

 

Their limits are 15 days to grant or deny the card plus 5 more days. That is their job. This is based on when they receive the app.

 

The other location is the protection provided the patient when the MDCH fails to do that job. This is based on when it is submitted by the patient.

 

This covers the patient no matter how bad the government screws it up. The patient does their part. That starts the clock, for the patient.

The MDCH receives the app. That starts the clock for them.

[+Green Cross]

Don't be confused readers. Your liberty and property are on the line. I do this job of processing apps/renewals, have submitted many hundreds over 2 years, none ever denied.

 

LARA considers an app/renewal -RECEIVED- when it is signed for or opened by a staffer, period. Not when the app/renewal is sitting in some external mailbox or cart. Envelopes can get stolen from outgoing home mailboxes; they can get shredded by USPS machinery; delivery persons could lose it before it goes into the mail stream; thus, you may have mailed it but if was never -RECEIVED- so you're not protected. What the IRS allows has no bearing on LARA's administrative rules. Bottom line, your 20 Day Waiting Period commences -after- LARA physically -RECEIVES- your app/renewal, making the next day your Day One.

 

Used to be you could drop off app/renewals in Lansing at the MDCH office. Someone would hand-stamp your app/renewal with a red, dated RECEIVED stamp, the gold standard of having applied. The staffer would then hand you an information sheet on letterhead stationery stating (I added the bold lettering):

 

"The date stamp on an application is not an approval; it only means our department has received this application. The application will be approved or denied within 15 days of receipt. If denied, the patient will receive a certified letter from the State of Michigan explaining the reasons and what to do next. If the patient has not received a certified letter of denial from the State approximately 20 days after the date stamp on this application, then in most cases, the patient (and the caregiver, if one was designated on the application) has been approved. Pursuant to the Michigan Medical Marihuana Act ("Act") and General Rules, the copy of a valid application is deemed a valid registration card after 20 days." Remaining content was snipped for being just 'how to contact us' info.

[peanutbutter]

Don't be fooled people.

 

If LARA gets your app and doesn't open the letter, you are still protected after 20 days.

 

I would ask people to stop paving the way for a file thirteen LARA process. Rejecting every application by simply not opening the envelope.

 

So far, the greed of the state provides proof of A single event that can be documented. They cashed the check.

[+Green Cross]

Cashing an applicant's personal/cashiers check or money order -does not- mean you're approved. Approval is granted only after 4 steps are completed successfully:

1. LARA physically -receives- your complete application. If any pages or fee payment are missing you're notified you can submit required proofs but until then, you're denied.

2. First thing LARA does is open app/renewals, gather up the checks, and send them to another accounting dept. for processing. May take days. If check bounces, you're denied.

3. Meanwhile, LARA processes your name, address, Social Security #, and Driver License # thru databases to verify whether "it really is you." Any glitches, you're denied.

4. If all steps pass and 20 calendar days go by without your receiving a DENIED notice via USPS Certified Mail, LARA considers your app/renewal as a valid registration.

 

It is what it is. I am done with this topic. Stay safe and legal folks.

[peanutbutter]

Cashing an applicant's personal/cashiers check or money order -does not- mean you're approved. Approval is granted only after 4 steps are completed successfully:

1. LARA physically -receives- your complete application. If any pages or fee payment are missing you're notified you can submit required proofs but until then, you're denied.

2. First thing LARA does is open app/renewals, gather up the checks, and send them to another accounting dept. for processing. May take days. If check bounces, you're denied.

3. Meanwhile, LARA processes your name, address, Social Security #, and Driver License # thru databases to verify whether "it really is you." Any glitches, you're denied.

4. If all steps pass and 20 calendar days go by without your receiving a DENIED notice via USPS Certified Mail, LARA considers your app/renewal as a valid registration.

 

It is what it is. I am done with this topic. Stay safe and legal folks.

 

Will SOMEONE please stop these people from twisting the words in our law?

 

"If all the steps pass" Just WHERE IN THE LAW DOES IT SAY THAT? And just how would you know "If all the steps pass?" You CAN'T know that!!

 

edit: This interpretation would place power in the hands of LARA to eliminate the mmj ID card in Michigan. Simply by screwing up the paperwork.

[bobandtorey]

Just make sure you have your Doc:s Rec befor your Raid and maybe 3 years or so you will be Free

am sorry for you and i hope you don't take a plea deal but i also under stand you have to do what you have to do

[WEBASSASSINX]

Section four of the law requires the patient have a registry ID card to be protected.

 

It does not say it must be a valid card. Only that it has been issued by the MDCH.

 

Bill Schuette has pointed this out and has requested that the law be changed to require the card to be valid.

 

Does anyone think this request by Bill Schuette to be of value in a court?

 

 

i am wondering the same thing ... is there anything in print about him bring up that fact and that it needs to be changed ?

where would i find that info

[donnachris]

Q. I never received my renewal card. Why do I need to pay the late fee?

 

A. It is the responsibility of the licensee to make sure that his or her license is renewed, whether a renewal card was or was not received. After the expiration date of a license, the licensee has 60 days in which to still renew a license by paying the renewal fee plus the late fees associated with the license(s) held. If the license is not renewed by the end of the 60-day grace period, the license is lapsed and the licensee must apply for relicensure.

 

http://www.michigan.gov/lara/0,4601,7-154-27417_27529-66821--,00.html

 

Those questions pertain to licnsing for Health Care professionals not for the MMMP.

[donnachris]

How can a license for a dr or nurse be the same as our MMMP program cards?? I guess I don't understand where you are coming up with a precendent??

[medicinejeff]

Are they even issuing cards at this point? I mean seriously. My card expired 11/1 and I sent a renewal in like May or June. My friend has not gotten hers or her mother's and they applied in JANUARY. No One calls them back. we know they got my friends. It was sent back initially as she forgot a copy of her drivers license and returned it Certified mail.

 

mine I can maybe understand if they just make piles by the month of expiration to work from regardless of how early. But January? And they don't return calls. WTF? Someone said they are stalling on plastic til after the first of the year when they allow themselves to question the bonified relationship of so many certs generated from a small number of doctors. Well when your doctor swore to the hospital to NOT sign them where else do you go?

[WEBASSASSINX]

http://www.onmedicalmarijuana.com/2011/12/17/patient-to-patient-transfers-legal/

 

http://www.onmedicalmarijuana.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Motion-Brief-NOH-POS-to-Dismiss.pdf

 

http://www.onmedicalmarijuana.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Response-to-Motion-to-Suppress.pdf

 

http://www.onmedicalmarijuana.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Defendants-Reply-Brief-121611.pdf

 

hoping that these will help me in court

[medicinejeff]

My friend who applied last year JANUARY AND FINALLY received her card yesterday. It expires in September. Figure that one out. her ma same time...still nothing.

[WEBASSASSINX]

well boys and girls i am still being screwed ... have been to court multiple times just to have it adjourned again and again .... now i am going back Monday January 23rd court room 10D at 8:30 am with judge Dennis leiber ... downtown grand rapids at 180 Ottawa ave. NW @ the 17th circuit court

ALL ARE WELCOME !!! I NEED SUPPORTERS,

 

first of all my whole life i was taught that if you do something wrong you take the punishment ...

well when i was 16 i got caught carrying a double edged knife (1 inch long) i used for tree service work .. had no idea it was illegal i also had a buck knife with a 9 inch blade, they did not care about the 9 inch blade said that it was legal but the little one was not, at the time i was 16 they took me to jail i was arraigned the next morning and went in front of the judge and he asked me if i was going to plea guilty or not guilty for the CCW charge ?

i told the judge i did not know and went back and forth from guilty to not guilty 7 times, the judge was getting frustrated and told me why cant you make up your mind and i told him that i had never been in trouble before and that i had not got to talk to my mom or a lawyer about it yet and was confused,

but the judge insisted that i had to plea guilty or not guilty right then so i plead guilty and was let go ... they gave me a date to show up for sentencing and it was after my birthday and was now 17,

the court appointed lawyer they gave me sucked his name was caral kruger a old guy that does not know the law or just had something against the judge, anyway... the prosecutor told me that it was a felony and he was going to recommend 6 month probation with a youthful trainee act and that it would be removed off of my record after my probation was over .. i said cool ... well we went in to court and my lawyer started talking to the judge about a golf game they recently had .... and they started arguing in the court during my sentencing like WTF???

and so after he shut his mouth the judge said that he was going to give me 90 days in jail, 6 months on tether, 2 years probation and $9000 court costs and fines !!! i was shocked !!! they violated my rights not having my parents there or a lawyer to talk to.... so i did the time and continued on with my life .....

years passed and i took the blame for a bag of leaf my girlfriend had on her because she was speeding late at night while i was asleep in the passengers seat on the way up north,

she wakes me up and says that we are being pulled over and that she was doing like 85+ i was like WTF ?? anyway plead guilty to that got 6 months probation for felony possession ...

and now the most recent moo poo that is at the beginning of this topic ...

but the point is, if i did it, i took the blame, stood up and did my time .... this is moo poo i followed the law and according to my license i was good from 2009 till 2011 so i am good they just want to throw people in jail for no dam reason and i am going to fight for this all the way,

they plan on charging me with 2 felony habitual offender charges along with the manufacturing and delivering charge witch would be my 3rd felony for the 3 strike law so they are going to try and send me away for a long time even though i have never committed a violent crime have never had any kind of offense that hurt a fly and they want to put me away for up to 25 years ??? WTF ???

so when they tell me that i cannot use medical marijuana as my defense and if i even mention it in court i will be in contempt of court ... I DON'T GIVE A flower ABOUT 30 DAYS IN JAIL AS LONG AS THE JURY HEARS I WAS A MMMA CARD HOLDER AND I WAS WITHIN THE LAW!!!

the people did not put this law in to effect for the police to wrangle up all of the medical marijuana patients it is total moo poo ...

i was in the emergency room over 100 times before 2009 due to the medication i was on and the medical problems i was having after i dropped all of the medication and switched over the medical marijuana i have only been back 2 or 3 times and even my doctors are surprised at the effects of it for my nausea and vomiting and my back pain,

i have a unknown stomach problem that i have been to Michigan university for had capsule endoscopys and colonoscopys and every test the had there and at butterworth hospital, blodgett hospital, metro hospital, mercy hospital ect.......

and they all could not figure out what was wrong with me ...

i had smoked pot before but always cheap stuff, mersh, and one of my friends was asking me if i had ever tried to smoke the chronic and i told them that i smoked all the time .. and they showed me what they had and i was like OMG glow in the dark neon green ak47,

i told him that i had not tried anything like that before and we smoked and it took my nausea and made me not focus on my back pain, he told me that i needed to get my MMMA license and get legal the law had just passed and so i signed up, have been smoking medical grade marijuana since then and my problems have dropped by so much that it is almost always under control without it i am a mess i don't know what the hell i will do if i go to jail ...

i don't want to go back to methadone, norco, ultram, xanax, ect ... i don't need any of these meds with medical marijuana and with them i am being poisoned and just sleep all day

 

if anyone has any ideas for me, or anything message me .... please ....