Need Help With Diagnosing Plant Issue (Pic Inside)

[FearAndLoathingInGR]

Man, today went to check on the veg and noticed quite a few issues.

 

Again i am colorblind so all i can do here is send as clear a pic as possible, thank you very much.

 

Im doing a rez change today but i am gonna wait to see what you guys say before i do this.

 

Info:

Dwc- 3 plants - Ph-5.8 - Nutes- 1000-1200 ppm, weekly rez changes, veg under 240 watt Flouros.

 

 

Pic 1, this was noticed as a small issue 2 days ago, this is just a few minutes ago. Way worse. I made some light adjustments 4 or 5 days ago and had it an inch or so off the top of plant, i thought maybe it was light burn but the thing is this pic is from a lower bottom branch 8 to 12 inches from light.

 

 

Pic 2, I am seeing these little spots or salted marks on the leaf.

 

 

Pic 3 This is unique to this leaf only, but still i find it unusual, it is spotted and leaf is curling up in a canoe fashion.

 

 

Pic 4 This is a different plant but similiar in situation to pic 1.

 

 

 

Ive only done one thing different in terms of how i am growing. And it is a difference i dont think is a big deal. I have no longer waited 24 hours for water to evaporate before i mix my nutes. Main reason is i am out of airpumps. I figured a little cholrine wont hurt to much we drink it anyways. I am meticulous in cleaning my buckets on res changes so i am clean and dont need chlorine but i dont think this change would cause this would it? Nevertheless i rearranged some stuff and have aired out my water for 30 hours now for todays change.

As of now i have removed bad leaves but will wait for you guys to chime in on what i should do before i go do anything else.

As usual you guys are great and very informational and i appreciate all help.

 

 

 

 

[bigbudsnewbie]

Looks like your light is to close and you might have spider mites...

[Northern Lab]

 

Definitely looks like some sort of chemical burn. And the small white/yellow spots definitely look like pretty advanced mite damage.

 

To be blunt, I'd bag and burn a plant with that sort of mite damage immediately.

[rhinoman]

i think post #2 is right on.

[FearAndLoathingInGR]

Well, i cut a leaf and put it under the microscope and sure enough we have some spider mites. my new mission is to kill these veg plants or totally rehabilitate them whichever comes first. I read alot about spider mite issues so being this is my first grow and there is no concrete evidence im gonna do my own tests, for starters i did do the res change and in so doing sprayed the hell out of the plant with a 50-50 mix 70% rub alc and water.

If this doesnt work i will try the pepper mix, then neem oil, and whatever i can try to experiment until it is healed or dead.

Edited May 13, 2013 by FearAndLoathingInGR

[Chauncy Gardner]

I'd say get yourself a scope and look at the bottom of those white specked leaves. If you see things moving around, try to ID them. Spray your plants with Azamax and repeat in ten days if you have bugs.

 

If that leaf discoloration is only on a few bottom leaves, I don't think it is anything to worry about. If it is all over the plant, then it is time to worry and I don't know what it could be.

[FearAndLoathingInGR]

Well i disassembled my vertical donut to investigate deeply into flower room. Sure enough there is a beginning theme happening at the bottom of plant and i can visibly see them moving.. As far as tests go i can confirm that alcohol and water are bad donkey in dealing with these spider mites. However i went a different route. I got a hot shot no pest strip and will put it in the flower room for 4 to 7 days and get things under control. i dont like the idea of the pest strip but it works, and i also dont like the idea of spraying my buds (week 6 flower) with alcohol water mix just in case.

 

As soon as fans go off i will throw the pest strip and report back on the progress.  As far as the veg room goes i sprayed the plants pictured this morning and when i went back a few hours later i could only find a few moving mites. I will go in and spray underneath leaves real good tonight one last time, and will wait a few days and do it again.if after a week nothing i will move on to peppers.

[Northern Lab]

Don't get discouraged. If you grow long enough, you're bound to lose a few plants or even entire crops to all sorts of issues.

 

Just wait until you bake a whole room full of half flowered plants because your heat pump quit. Or your ph meter craps out and you scorch all your moms beyond recognition.

 

Mites are serious and shouldn't be taken lightly, but they can be overcome. Being vigilant on bio security and spraying schedules is key. I know growers who have never had mites, and they spray all their plants, up to two weeks into flower, with just plain ph'ed water two or three times weekly. They say they started doing it just trying to mimic natural rainfall, but it seems to be a pretty good preventative treatment for mites at least.

[FearAndLoathingInGR]

Interesting, i was just reading on rosemary oil and was thinking i might mix up a batch and when i do my weekly res changes give it a good foliar spray to prevent. Maybe water a spray ph like you said a few days after that. I do like your idea of a mimic rainfall. We try to create a perfect outdoor environment indoors but no one ever speaks of the rain aspect pro or con. i will look into the subject more tomorrow. I spent a good part of today washing leaves and i am ready for bed. I hope i wake up to good results. see you in 12 hours with some updates.

 

Thanks again folks. It sucks going through this but i am glad to accept the challenge early to gain knowledge for future.

[FearAndLoathingInGR]

Ok folks, its a better day today. Yesterday was seeing live mites in the hundreds, today i am seeing them maybe i seen 7 live ones. Tons of dead laying around. So i am hoping that some stuff can be saved.

To be blunt, I'd bag and burn a plant with that sort of mite damage immediately.         
 

 

Someone such as yourself with over a 1000 posts this was terrible advice. sure, some would share the opinion of getting rid of them, but it was towards the bottom end of leaf and you offered no source of action other than termination... I am new here and i am looking to learn Good info from people. This means pros and cons. 24 hours in i have learned alot and if i was able to in the future help someone, here is a better example of how it should be done. "Spider mites kill plants, if it was me id bag and burn immediately, however there are other opions as well such as neem oil, rubbing alcohol, azamax, etc etc that you may want to consider before throwing plant out" i mean i am 2 months into this and would rather work toward a solution and prevention knowledge than to just throw in the towel and throw away.

In the end perhaps i may have wished i burned them all, but i am a scrapper by nature and i am of the inkling to fight for my babys.

 

So for future knowledge for anyone, Hot Spot no pest strips, and mix of alcohol/water is working. I will update this thread every few days for info puproses, keep in mind i only have 6 to 8 plants going between flower and veg so this isnt a giant garden, i am able to get intimate with all my plants and treat them specifically which is why i believe i will get a grip on this issue. If i had 20 or 30 or more i dont know how i would go about treating this issue.

 

I was a pompous a$$, you see i am a clean freak, and my lab looks like a docs office in St marys. All my grow friends told us we would have mites. I strongly disagreed cause of my cleanliness habbits but in the end i am infested so in the future, i will treat plants once a week with some natural oils and throughout the week after that i will just foliar spray ph'd water. This is gonna be my prevention techniques in the next grow cause obviously being clean isnt gonna matter.

 

Thx again for all info peeps!

[+Malamute]

None of the things mentioned will kill off all the mites.  You may be able to knock em back a bit, but they will assimilate.

 

Did someone give you clones that had mites?  Are they coming in from outdoors on your shoes or pets?

 

 Do you have vegetation around any windows or entrances near your grow area? 

 

 Do you have other house plants that are also infected?

 

 But,.. I am more towards northerns feelings on this.  Unless you have a specific strain you wish to keep(just treat and take a clone if so) burn those mutha fukrs and destroy anything and anywhere they could have come from. :-)

 

 Bleach your entire area. Spray with a real miticide(floramite or similar), then re bleach your rooms and make sure to kill anything in a perimeter around your house and gardens.

 

 ...or,... go ahead and keep using means that will never work. Neem and crap.

 

 Am I anall on this? Yeap.

 

 (knock on wood) aggressive approaches and anall retentiveness has kept me clean from mites for 9 years.  Just killing the adults will do no good. Removing the reason they exist is all important.  Then committing genocide on any mites in a 100 foot radius will just make ya feel better and lessen the chance of recurrence.

[FearAndLoathingInGR]

Out of all the options you stated id have to say it came in from outdoors on shoes. No vegetation in windows, no otherr houseplants. No outdoor pets. If i had another grower over and if he had mites at his grow the mites can attach to his shoes live long enough to go to my lab and infest from a shoe? thats crazy. That would have to be the best explanantion though.

 

Like i said i am a noob so this is all new to me and i dont regret going thru this as i need to learn on my own how to deal. I will figure this whole thing out early in my grow experiences and then hopefully be like you and go 9 years without an issue.

[+Malamute]

Absolutely.

 

Also, a major perpetraitor of mite infestations are the actual grow stores.  I have yet to see a grow store that grows plants not be infested with bugs, diseases or some other crap. This stuff is riding home on your supplies as well.

[Darkmatter]

I would take Malamutes advice if I was you.

[Northern Lab]

Ok folks, its a better day today. Yesterday was seeing live mites in the hundreds, today i am seeing them maybe i seen 7 live ones. Tons of dead laying around. So i am hoping that some stuff can be saved.

 

 

Someone such as yourself with over a 1000 posts this was terrible advice. sure, some would share the opinion of getting rid of them, but it was towards the bottom end of leaf and you offered no source of action other than termination... I am new here and i am looking to learn Good info from people. This means pros and cons. 24 hours in i have learned alot and if i was able to in the future help someone, here is a better example of how it should be done. "Spider mites kill plants, if it was me id bag and burn immediately, however there are other opions as well such as neem oil, rubbing alcohol, azamax, etc etc that you may want to consider before throwing plant out" i mean i am 2 months into this and would rather work toward a solution and prevention knowledge than to just throw in the towel and throw away.

In the end perhaps i may have wished i burned them all, but i am a scrapper by nature and i am of the inkling to fight for my babys.

 

So for future knowledge for anyone, Hot Spot no pest strips, and mix of alcohol/water is working. I will update this thread every few days for info puproses, keep in mind i only have 6 to 8 plants going between flower and veg so this isnt a giant garden, i am able to get intimate with all my plants and treat them specifically which is why i believe i will get a grip on this issue. If i had 20 or 30 or more i dont know how i would go about treating this issue.

 

I was a pompous rectum, you see i am a clean freak, and my lab looks like a docs office in St marys. All my grow friends told us we would have mites. I strongly disagreed cause of my cleanliness habbits but in the end i am infested so in the future, i will treat plants once a week with some natural oils and throughout the week after that i will just foliar spray ph'd water. This is gonna be my prevention techniques in the next grow cause obviously being clean isnt gonna matter.

 

Thx again for all info peeps!

 

Like malamute said, none of those methods will eradicate them, but are useful as prevention. The only sure fire way to get rid of them is to bag and burn, I suggest you don't waste your time trying to save them. I'm offering you advice based on my own experience, and it tells me to bag and burn and start over or you'll regret it.

[Northern Lab]

Absolutely.

 

Also, a major perpetraitor of mite infestations are the actual grow stores.  I have yet to see a grow store that grows plants not be infested with bugs, diseases or some other crap. This stuff is riding home on your supplies as well.

Tons of mites on the banana plant at one of the locals. Right by the door, oddly enough...

[phaquetoo]

Mites, either get on em as fast as you can or yank em and clean your whole grow room, azamax helps, I would'nt hestitate to put it on a plant a few wks into bud, there all over the leaves, the white specs and brown specs is every where, bummer but you have to be proactive from now on, dont matter if your in dirt or dwc, the best thing you can do is keep a healthy plant, they are less likly to get bugs, dont forget to spray the underside of all of the leaves!  fun fun

 

Best of luck to you!

 

Peace

Jim

 

p.s dont take any clones from any one, it blows but ive gotten them that way, and it was from my c.g who is an awsome grower, I just happened to get some clones at the wrong time, Im glad I only do like 8 max in veg and budd, so I realy didnt loose that much, but they sure were pretty when I got them lol!

[mibrains]

i only had mites the one time a couple summers ago..

 

they caught a ride in on a clone...

 

i only use seeds now.. no outside plants here..

 

and never go into the grow area without properly changing all your cloths first.

 

the good news is.. now that you have mites.. you won't have to worry about how much of a pain in the butt they are... now you will know.

 

i tried several different commercial mite treatments.

 

i sprayed.

 

i bleached

 

i did everything people swore worked...

 

still they showed back up.. after a couple weeks.. and they tend to get stronger and stronger with each occurrence.

 

in my humble opinion.

 

the best thing you can do... is to use the "no pest strips"

 

treat the entire house.

one in each room.

put them out for 2 weeks. (on the 1st of each month) then put them in a Ziploc bag for two weeks. (on the 15th) repeat...

 

by removing them from the space for two weeks you will effectively break the immunity and egg cycle.

 

after 3-6 months you can stop treatment if you choose to...

 

i don't use anything in the Winter... i just put some no pest strips in this month and they come out tomorrow...

i also use a garden yard spreader and treat my entire yard for fleas, ticks, spiders and ants... its a granular mix i got from "megastore r us"... it seems to keep the critters from hitching a ride on the dog.. and my pant legs..

 

works great to keep the fleas out of the area for my dog... i have not put collars or drops on him in a few years now... i would rather treat the area than the plant or pet... (whenever possible)

 

i wanna say northernlab tested some medicine a year or so ago that was exposed directly to no pest strips and did not find any detectable amounts in the finished medicine.

 

the problem you run into with keeping your current plants... is at a minimum when you harvest... you will be consuming dead mites.. mite feces.. mite eggs.. and live mites probably as well...

 

hence the logic behind the turn and burn...

 

fear not...

 

chock it up to experience..

 

the rules around here is no one goes in my space..

change cloths prior to entry.

never ever go directly into garden from outside.

no outside clones or plants.

new genetics come from seed only.

 

prevention is worth a ton.

 

good luck and let us know how you fare.

[FearAndLoathingInGR]

Well, from your post i can see i have work for the future.  Thats a great idea though with the lawn. I got some einstein neem oil, lil dishsoap and a windex bottle and went to town. Now to clear a little bit of issues up in regards to my flowering, i did find some in there but not alot and it was more towards the bottom of the plant. The real bad looking infected leaves i pulled but only a few. I was watching another debate on youtube as to wether a grower should cut fan leaves or not with the idea that removing them gives more attention to buds, well i had a plant that was stunty and gangly, not doing much, when it started to flower nicely i trimmed the hell out of it. Well a few days later i go in and all the sudden my baby has balls on her all over. So, i learned that trimming can make a hermy if overdone. With this in mind im terrified to remove anything but degraded fan leaves.

 

I am also terrified to put neem oil on week 7 plants. So heres what i did, taking yesterdays advice i mixed a batch of 5.8 ph'd water and foliar sprayed my flower plants, any sign of a mite i force sprayed off (i sprayed neem oil all around my buckets on the floor to infect those caught) The mites are affecting 3 of 6 plants in flower. Tonight before lights out i will go in and spray the tinkle out of a sponge with neem oil mix and wipe the undersides of all plants. The last thing i want is the neem oil flavor in my medicine. this stuff smells atrocious.

 

Ive been a busy boy. Further inspection revealed my clones are affected too. So they got a full neem treatment but i would imagine they wont make it and even if they did may be stunted so i probaby will kill those and start fresh when veg room is under control.

 

This has kept me busy. not a fun experience, but definately a learning one.

 

Oh i also wanted to state that an hour before lights out i am gonna turn off the exhaust and lay that no pest strip on my box fan which lays on a bread crate in the center of the grow and i am gonna blow that baby around for an hour before i turn my fans off. the idea is to shut the room and let the fan blow whatever that pest strip has around every nook and cranny. Hope it is effective.

Edited May 14, 2013 by FearAndLoathingInGR

[+Malamute]

Neem oil doesn't kill in the fashion most think. It merely suffocates the adults by breaking the water barrier.  Generally, Dawn dish soap would accomplish the same thing less detrimentally.

 

And generally, here is my recommendation.

 

Finish flowering the plants already flowering if only a few weeks left. 

Unless you have attachment to the strains you currently have,... kill off your entire veg room.

Immediately clean and sterilize an area far far away from your grow area(different location even).

Start seeds immediately so you will at worst have maybe a 6 week total downtime between harvests.

After harvesting IN THE flower ROOM IN CLOTHES YOU ARE WILLING TO THROW AWAY,  you may begin the serious project of sterilizing your house and surrounding area.

You will of course already been bleaching your veg room and any surrounding areas prior to and during harvest.

At that point, get a real miticide(floramite) and spray your stuff down from ceiling to floor and the entire outside perimeter of your home.  Read precautions before doing so.

After 24 hours, go through and bleach EVERYTHING. I do mean everything. Ceiling to floor and everything and item in between.

 

After a week,... bring your seedlings which are hopefully growing very nicely BACK to your veg room,... spray them with miticide... and procede as normal from that point on.

 

Many people tell me I overdue it. I say,... who cares,... i solve the problem.  After going through mites a couple times and realizing how horrible it is,.... you may come back and read this and say,.. " Dude knew what he was talking about. :-)

 

Good luck!

[FearAndLoathingInGR]

I am gonna have to put some thought into your ideas. I may wait a week and see where i am at and decide. I have a perpetual grow, so it aint like when i harvest i shut down im spaced approx 2 or 3 weeks apart. How to manage that in with your idea i dont know. If the problem dont get better i guess i will have to halt production and revamp. Not a big deal but when you put this much time into this it is i am finding hard to let go lol.

 

And no i dont think you are over doing it and i can tell you know what you are talking about, if worse comes to worse i guess i will have to overdo you and go breaking bad style tent the house and do what brain said and treat the lawn lol.

[+Malamute]

Hahaha....

 

Many/most choose "control" and use products as you speak of and hundreds others.

 

I choose complete and utter annihilation. 

 

 

 One must make the best choice for their own circumstance.

[pergamum362]

Indeed.mites are a pain.havent had them in a few years.got a clone from my buddy a few

Onths ago and got thrips....they were easy compared to mites.Annihalation is the way to salvation...if even one survives you'll be fighting them again.

[phaquetoo]

I am gonna have to put some thought into your ideas. I may wait a week and see where i am at and decide. I have a perpetual grow, so it aint like when i harvest i shut down im spaced approx 2 or 3 weeks apart. How to manage that in with your idea i dont know. If the problem dont get better i guess i will have to halt production and revamp. Not a big deal but when you put this much time into this it is i am finding hard to let go lol.

 

And no i dont think you are over doing it and i can tell you know what you are talking about, if worse comes to worse i guess i will have to overdo you and go breaking bad style tent the house and do what brain said and treat the lawn lol.

 

Hey could I borrow that tent for next winter? lol

 

Peace

Jim

 

p.s not for bugs, but to help keep the cold out!!!

[FearAndLoathingInGR]

Hey could I borrow that tent for next winter? lol

 Peace

Jim

 p.s not for bugs, but to help keep the cold out!!!

Today is a new day people, and things are lookin good. No adults found, freshly hatched eggs found though, so i am about to go deal with that. This is my first crop so i wanna do everythign i can to control it till i harvest then i will eradicate. Im down to 2 weeks. What a pain. Nothing can ever be simple though. I am confident my flower room is pretty safe. I am not gonna have mites in my smoke thats for certain. I will go in and foliar spray again today with just regular water. I find the windex bottle has good pressure you can see the mites underside of the leaf just get waterboarded.

 

So for anyone keeping track, initially the alc/h20 mix was great at killing them on the leaf on contact, out of three plants i sprayed there were no ill effects here 3 days later aside of maybe 2 or 3 fan leaves that went totally like soggy droopy. I cut those and went on my way.

 

yesterdays neem oil mix was great too, this mix is 2 tsp Einstein oil, 3 drops of dish soap (no antibacterial or phosphates) and 1 quart of warm water. I sat the neem oil on the stereo reciever for 20 minutes to warm it up and i shook the hell out of it. took a quart and a half to saturate 3 plants 20" tall and a few baby clones.

 

Also mixed up ph'd water and i am spraying my flower plants regularly.

 

DO NOT SPRAY NEEM OIL ON BUDS, I hear it makes the medicine smell atrocious, this neem stinks terribly i dont like it at all but it does work. I did spray down 2 plants that are in flower only 2 or 3 weeks or so. should be plenty of time to work that out. It is probably over kill but i sprayed neem oil on a sponge and an hour after i foliar sprayed with water just went thru and wiped the underside of the fan leaves.

 

In a few days i may abandon the neem for a bit to just use a heavy dose of dishsoap and water, rinse down later just to keep the mites guessing.

 

This is just to get you by stuff. in the end i will follow you pros advice and exterminate them all. I bought some indoor insecticide. Will be geat in flower room but veg is cement and i just read it wont work on the porousness of it so i kind of wasted money on it. hmmm gets me thinking, porous means it can prolly hold eggs. I think i will mix up a 5 gallon can of bleach water and just douse my cement. Kill anything in the way. Another busy day.

 

On a side note, holy smokes is it beautifull outside!

Hey could I borrow that tent for next winter? lol

 

Peace

Jim

 

p.s not for bugs, but to help keep the cold out!!!

That depends, do you have some overages i could borrow to get me thru the winter? lol

Edited May 15, 2013 by FearAndLoathingInGR