Thinking About Moving From Indiana To Michigan, Help Me Decide?

[Link]

Hello,

I am new to these forums, and I am looking to get some answers.  Your answers will probably shape the next year and possibly the rest of my life.  I am thinking about becoming a legal resident of Michigan in order to grow MMJ for people.  I am currently a Chiropractor in Indiana who cannot pay off his student loans on his current pay.  In fact, I am below the poverty line.  I see patients all day long and am always busy, but with overhead from the clinic and all of the fees I have to pay, at this rate I will never ever pay off my student loans.  My loans amount to $145,000+ and gaining interest.

Since I was a young kid I have loved growing plants of all kinds, but have never grown MJ.  I am not putting this up to ask about how to grow it.  I want to know a few details specific to Michigan.  I have been thinking if I do become a legal resident there, I would start with as low overhead as possible for my first grow.  I intend to do an outdoor grow only in the normal growing season similar to a garden.

My questions include:

1.  Is an 8foot  fence around the area sufficient enough to satisfy Michigan law?  Do you have any reccomendations in addition to the fence?

2.  If I do not live on the property, is there more or less risk of my crop being either stolen or raided by police?  Do I have to live on the property?

3.  Are there any hidden precautions I should take other than the normal bureaucratic paperwork necessary before any growing happens?

4.  I will probably post visible signs on the fence with my caregiver information in case my grow is spotted from a helicopter so that it is easy for the police to look up my information.  Is this a wise decision?

5.  Do you think I will make more than $14,000 a year on selling medical marijuana (that is my current net wage as a chiropractor)?  If it will not pay of my loans, I will not uproot my life.

Thank you for your help.

 

 

[Highlander]

Hello,

I am new to these forums, and I am looking to get some answers.  Your answers will probably shape the next year and possibly the rest of my life.  I am thinking about becoming a legal resident of Michigan in order to grow MMJ for people.  I am currently a Chiropractor in Indiana who cannot pay off his student loans on his current pay.  In fact, I am below the poverty line.  I see patients all day long and am always busy, but with overhead from the clinic and all of the fees I have to pay, at this rate I will never ever pay off my student loans.  My loans amount to $145,000+ and gaining interest.

Since I was a young kid I have loved growing plants of all kinds, but have never grown MJ.  I am not putting this up to ask about how to grow it.  I want to know a few details specific to Michigan.  I have been thinking if I do become a legal resident there, I would start with as low overhead as possible for my first grow.  I intend to do an outdoor grow only in the normal growing season similar to a garden.

My questions include:

1.  Is an 8foot  fence around the area sufficient enough to satisfy Michigan law?  NO  Do you have any reccomendations in addition to the fence? It needs a top, must be locked, somewhat hidden from view

2.  If I do not live on the property, is there more or less risk of my crop being either stolen or raided by police?  more of a risk, yes Do I have to live on the property? No

3.  Are there any hidden precautions I should take other than the normal bureaucratic paperwork necessary before any growing happens?

4.  I will probably post visible signs on the fence with my caregiver information in case my grow is spotted from a helicopter so that it is easy for the police to look up my information.  Is this a wise decision?  See below

5.  Do you think I will make more than $14,000 a year on selling medical marijuana It is possible.  possible...5 patients paying $233/month each...insurance doesn't cover MMJ and most patients are poor  (that is my current net wage as a chiropractor)?  If it will not pay of my loans, I will not uproot my life.

Thank you for your help.

 

Other things to consider:

 

1.  It will be close to impossible to get five patients to sign up with you in May so you can grow their plants and then wait six months for meds

2.  You are putting all of your patients eggs in one basket.  If you have a crop failure or get ripped off, you don't have a back-up plan

3.  You will be way over your limits at harvest time, or you won't have enough meds to last a full year

[Link]

Other things to consider:

 

1.  It will be close to impossible to get five patients to sign up with you in May so you can grow their plants and then wait six months for meds Can I become a patient in order to have the right to grow 12 plants at the very beginning, and use that to build surplus to sell while patients come on board?

2.  You are putting all of your patients eggs in one basket.  If you have a crop failure or get ripped off, you don't have a back-up plan I can still hold my Indiana Chiropractic license and practice there 3 days a week and grow 4 days a week, so money from MMJ would be supplemental.

3.  You will be way over your limits at harvest time, or you won't have enough meds to last a full year By way over my limits, are you saying that I will have to much MJ or I will be spending to much energy on diminishing returns?

[Link]

And thank you very much for clarifying the fence and posting in general.

[Highlander]

And thank you very much for clarifying the fence and posting in general.

 

you're welcome.

 

1.  Sorta.  The law says that if you are a patient, then your conduct with MMJ must be for the purpose of alleviating YOUR condition.  The Michigan Supreme court really stressed this point.  So it would follow that if you are a patient growing MMJ with some other intent (in this case to eventually transfer to other patients as a new CG), well, you're in a grey area.  But if a tree falls in the woods.....

 

With regard to #2, the back-up plan I was referring to was for your patients.  If you lose your crop, they will have wait X long and then have to find a new CG.

 

Over limits - A patient who is also a CG can possess 15 oz of dried MJ.  This won't last most patients a year - let alone five patients.

[trichcycler]

you are only allowed to posess 2.5 oz per patient, including yourself. You will not make 14k.

you are risking your chiropractic opportunities by growing/providing mj

there is no money to be made selling the mj that only your five registered patients need.

 

good luck naming your Michigan outdoor crop "medical marijuana". Patient here are very discerning when legal.

 

good luck

[trichcycler]

you're welcome.

 

1.  Sorta.  The law says that if you are a patient, then your conduct with MMJ must be for the purpose of alleviating YOUR condition.  The Michigan Supreme court really stressed this point.  So it would follow that if you are a patient growing MMJ with some other intent (in this case to eventually transfer to other patients as a new CG), well, you're in a grey area.  But if a tree falls in the woods.....

 

With regard to #2, the back-up plan I was referring to was for your patients.  If you lose your crop, they will have wait X long and then have to find a new CG.

 

Over limits - A patient who is also a CG(WITH 5 REGISTERED PATIENTS) can possess 15 oz of dried MJ.  This won't last most patients a year - let alone five patients.

[trichcycler]

It's a privilege to be approved to use and grow marijuana in MI, not a right. But you will lose your right to possess or purchase a firearm here, and will also change your lifestyle to accommodate your status.  NO more vacations for one

 

Other things to consider:

 

1.  It will be close to impossible to get five patients to sign up with you in May so you can grow their plants and then wait six months for meds Can I become a patient in order to have the right to grow 12 plants at the very beginning, and use that to build surplus to sell while patients come on board?

2.  You are putting all of your patients eggs in one basket.  If you have a crop failure or get ripped off, you don't have a back-up plan I can still hold my Indiana Chiropractic license and practice there 3 days a week and grow 4 days a week, so money from MMJ would be supplemental.

3.  You will be way over your limits at harvest time, or you won't have enough meds to last a full year By way over my limits, are you saying that I will have to much MJ or I will be spending to much energy on diminishing returns?

[t-pain]

mmj caregivers arent very profitable i dont think. they can sell to the 5 registered patients connected with them in the registry, but it barely breaks even?

 

5 patients at 1oz / month for $30oz = $150 / month.

growing outdoors has a longer season than indoors.

growing indoors requires fans, electricity, lights, etc.

 

theres no 'green rush' here.

you may want to wait and see if the dispensary bill happens, then you would be legal to sell to dispensaries? the bill is long and confusing. probably it wont pass.

[trichcycler]

patients will need an uninterrupted supply with regular deliveries. They can only possess 2.5 oz at a time, and most cannot afford that amount monthly. I see donations from 150 to 280 on this forum, neither amounts to much after your grow bills are paid. I have minimum delivery amounts, but most don't. this keeps me from having to deliver a couple grams every week. I drive about 60 miles per month per patient, for thought, even with minimum delivery requirements, and only a monthly meeting.

 

I suggest joining a successful practice that employs several chiropractors at the same time?

[trichcycler]

t pain....my man, I cant grow for 30 dollars an ounce, can you? or typo

[Link]

It's a privilege to be approved to use and grow marijuana in MI, not a right. But you will lose your right to possess or purchase a firearm here, and will also change your lifestyle to accommodate your status.  NO more vacations for one

I don't get any vacations anyway, but the people here are giving me an idea of how much more work for very little returns this is going to be.  Medical marijuana benefits the patients, because now it is easily grown everywhere.  The price that people projected to me was the illegal price of it.  I will just go ahead and continue living in Indiana, and doing what I am doing.  The reason being that I will have to overstretch myself for the same returns with more risk.  I know it would be fun to grow MMJ, but so is my chiropractic practice.  I really do see the benefits of MMJ, and I would like to make it available to patients.  I will simply wait until MMJ comes to Indiana, which it will eventually.  I am young and can wait that long.

 

Thank you all for your input.  If anyone has any points to make besides what someone else has put, please do speak up.  What the people here have told me so far has swayed my mind to staying here.

[Highlander]

 

you're welcome.

 

1.  Sorta.  The law says that if you are a patient, then your conduct with MMJ must be for the purpose of alleviating YOUR condition.  The Michigan Supreme court really stressed this point.  So it would follow that if you are a patient growing MMJ with some other intent (in this case to eventually transfer to other patients as a new CG), well, you're in a grey area.  But if a tree falls in the woods.....

 

With regard to #2, the back-up plan I was referring to was for your patients.  If you lose your crop, they will have wait X long and then have to find a new CG.

 

Over limits - A patient who is also a CG(WITH 5 REGISTERED PATIENTS) can possess 15 oz of dried MJ.  This won't last most patients a year - let alone five patients.

Thanks for adding that.  I forgot to explain.

[trichcycler]

was worried you'd bum out that I inserted that. I understood what you meant, and know you would never steer anyone wrong ! keep up the good posting !

[Highlander]

was worried you'd bum out that I inserted that. I understood what you meant, and know you would never steer anyone wrong ! keep up the good posting !

 

Thanks but no worries.  One needs thick skin to have an on-line personality.  There have been a few posters here who have felt ruffled feathers when I disagree with them or try to correct/add to their information.

 

I'm not like that.  I think this website is and has been the go-to website for information about Michigan MMJ.  Accordingly, the information should be thoroughly vetted, looked at under a microscope, and kicked around a bit.  A good example was a recent post from a patient who had (I think PTSD) and he said his meds were causing him problems.  A regular poster told him he should try to get PTSD accepted as a qualifying condition.  My advice was a bit different...that if the meds that treat his PTSD have pain/nausea side effects, then maybe he could qualify right away and he should have an HONEST discussion with his doctor and/or a cert doc. to see if he could qualify.  I feel like the other poster decided that it was better to defend her initial response (change the law) rather than support my reply of "have a real discussion with a doc and see if you qualify today based on the side effects." 

 

We need a little less of people trying to be right and a little more of having open discussions to try to affect positive patient outcomes.

 

In summary, I accept any constructive criticism and welcome any appropriate corrections.

 

Quality information is the goal.  Not pride.

 

Thanks for posting.  I might not agree with everything you say (but I might), but to be able to have this type of civil discussion is something this board really needs.

 

When so many of us have so much that hurts already, to focus on hurt on-line feelings would simply be unproductive.

[trichcycler]

we could argue points sometime, you know, to fit in? lol

[GregS]

14K is a tall order but can be reached. It takes a lot of work and a little luck to accomplish it, and it can be a workable avocation. You can pay a couple of bills a month and have a little walking around money, but little else if you remain legally compliant. Possession limits constrain production and the five patient limit does not permit it as a lucrative day job. Consider too that the price of the drug will continue to decline as inroads are made in expanded medical, and perhaps recreational, accommodation. Prices are what they are in no small part because of the risk involved. For instance, in 2008, when the law was initiated, medical grade dope sold for frequently four, and sometimes six hundred dollars an oz. It is pretty widely available now for around two hundred.

 

That said, if you were to practice your profession here marijuana cultivation can be a pleasant aside, but little more than a paying hobby. Come on up. We could use more good chiropractic.

Edited November 7, 2013 by GregS

[GregS]

we could argue points sometime, you know, to fit in? lol

Tee hee.

[trichcycler]

5 patients x 2 ounces per month= 10 ounces @ 175 conservatively= 1750 per month

1750 per month x 12 months= 21000$

 

375 dollar electric bill x12 = 4500 yearly electricity

21000 - 4500= 16,500 $

 

can be done , but I didn't mention any other operating or start up  costs either. good luck finding solid patients using a guaranteed donated for 2 ounces per month.

they exist, I insist, but are elusive. the ones that use 1/2 pound a month, well, they come with some other baggage too. Colorado is the place to be I think.

 

guanotea1 has this worked out to the pennies, I hope he can add some sauce, I love numbers, just cant count them too high

[pic book]

avg prod cost per oz in michigan = $100 (not including labor)

must sell 187 oz per year, 16 oz per month @$175 to net $14k/year

i'd say 125 of 126 people trying it don't make that-----not nubies who stay compliant

to turn bank, get an md, probably 1 1/2 years more school for a chiro

[Link]

Okay, so that guy that said he was selling it for $30 dollars an ounce really turned me off of it.  It would be nice if I could practice as well as grow... Thanks for your breakdown grassmatch that helps a lot.

[Link]

Yeah, I could get an MD degree, ahh but more school?  I've already went to school for 7 years past high school, and I believe Chiro credits don't transfer hardly at all to medical school.  I would be looking at close to 4 more years and probably another 100 to $150k in debt.  Ahh....

[pic book]

4 X 14=68 u give up, u double your debt, and spend 25 years earning $75k, a 535% jump in salary

amerika, what a kountry!

29 x 14=$406,000

25x75= $1,875,000

go to skool more, like i told my son, and now he earns $190k annually, 9 years after we sat in that dairy queen and he bemoaned 5 more years of skool

[GregS]

Yeah, I could get an MD degree, ahh but more school?  I've already went to school for 7 years past high school, and I believe Chiro credits don't transfer hardly at all to medical school.  I would be looking at close to 4 more years and probably another 100 to $150k in debt.  Ahh....

I've raised up a bunch of happy, productive children. You have every opportunity to find something you want to be successful at and your whole life to do it in. Growing dope ain't it. In fact, you might consider putting the pipe away if you want to maximize the return on your education investment.

 

And read "If..."

Edited November 8, 2013 by GregS

[trichcycler]

good advice there !

I've raised up a bunch of happy, productive children. You have every opportunity to find something you want to be successful at and your whole life to do it in. Growing dope ain't it. In fact, you might consider putting the pipe away if you want to maximize the return on your education investment.