Detroit News - Ferndale Detective: "medical Marijuana Card A Fake"

[DenturesLost]

If the reason the card was created was to be able to purchase marijuana from a dispensary. With this being true, was not the intent to defraud those at the dispensary?

That's like saying I can be convicted for defrauding someone out of a stolen stereo. You can't. Why? Because for a fraud to occur the underlying transaction has to be legal to begin with. You can't be convicted of defrauding someone out of "their" stolen goods. That is the point. The argument is that the underlying transaction, selling to patients to whom you are not connected through the MDCH registry, is a crime. If it is found to be a crime then there is no fraud.

 

I'm not saying it is a crime but you can't say it isn't. The law is not clear on that issue and it is going to take appealing up to the Mich Supreme Ct to get a final interpretation on this I would guess. It now being a conservative court we can probably all guess how that will go.

[bobandtorey]

If the reason the card was created was to be able to purchase marijuana from a dispensary. With this being true, was not the intent to defraud those at the dispensary? i think it was

 

 

and i have said this be for their are more of them (Leo) with fake I.D's so know who your friends are

[Ms Chocolate]

Because for a fraud to occur the underlying transaction has to be legal to begin with. You can't be convicted of defrauding someone out of "their" stolen goods. That is the point. The argument is that the underlying transaction, selling to patients to whom you are not connected through the MDCH registry, is a crime. If it is found to be a crime then there is no fraud.

I’m following you, and I agree that for a transaction to be legal, all parts of it must be legal.

 

Saying that, “The argument is that the underlying transaction, selling to patients to whom you are not connected through the MDCH registry”, would apply to caregivers.

 

Is the assumption that everyone arrested, were acting as a caregiver? Assuming that all employees were patients; would not everyone be allowed to conduct transfers?

[peanutbutter]

That's like saying I can be convicted for defrauding someone out of a stolen stereo. You can't. Why? Because for a fraud to occur the underlying transaction has to be legal to begin with. You can't be convicted of defrauding someone out of "their" stolen goods. That is the point. The argument is that the underlying transaction, selling to patients to whom you are not connected through the MDCH registry, is a crime. If it is found to be a crime then there is no fraud.

 

Then if the court finds that these were completely legal activities, then that would define the action as fraud?

[herbnurse]

they are going to be in trouble? who the PA the cards looks real

The dispensary would be in trouble if it doesnt look real is what i was saying. Like how a liquor store would get in trouble if they sold alcohol to someone with fake id. I have not seen this fake card but i am guessing they could not reproduce the hologram's that are all over med cards. In my opinion they are responsible for making sure those Cards are legal. If they cannot do that then i dont know he they should go to jail but they should pay a fine and be closed down.

[bobandtorey]

they should pay a fine and be closed down.

am sure they would love to do that at this time inn the game they would come out Way ahead

[DenturesLost]

Then if the court finds that these were completely legal activities, then that would define the action as fraud?

No it wouldn't because there was a reasonable position taken that the acts were criminal. It comes down to intent. Did the cops intend to defraud (eg: take something from someone with the intent to deprive them of their legal interest and with the intent to convert it to their own use)? Think about it. Let's say I walk out to my car and see someone trying to steal my car. I confront them. They make a quick motion and I think they are going to pull a gun so I beat them to it and pull my gun and shoot them dead. They didn't have a gun or any weapon and it turns out they were going to just shoo a bee that just stung them. Did I commit murder? No. Why? Didn't I use deadly force against someone who could not possibly have used deadly force on me? Yes. But it was reasonable based on the circumstance. I reasonably thought the guy may have a weapon and I used force that was reasonable based on the circumstances. Therefore my self defense, incidentally an affirmative defense, would leave me not guilty of a criminal offense. It's all in the intent...

 

If the law were clear that dispensaries were legal then the outcome would be different.

[The Digital Nomad]

http://www.dailytribune.com/articles/2010/11/05/news/doc4cd4bcfd0b741636898022.txt?viewmode=default

 

That is a great reading, you can see the process they used to conduct the investigation.

 

I hope the judge decides not to persue the case!

Bonus - the judge sealed the ledger with patient names.

 

-DN

[bobandtorey]

That is a great reading, you can see the process they used to conduct the investigation.

 

I hope the judge decides not to persue the case!

Bonus - the judge sealed the ledger with patient names.

 

-DN

 

 

and one of the reporters from that paper was on the stand Wednesday for the PA because he wrote a story about the Ferndale place