Detroit News - Ferndale Detective: "medical Marijuana Card A Fake"

[MI Compassion]

Last Updated: November 06. 2010 1:00AM

Detective: Medical marijuana card a fake

Undercover cop testifies at hearing phony ID approved by prosecutor, sheriff's offices

Jennifer Chambers / The Detroit News

 

Ferndale — A phony Michigan medical marijuana identity card used by an undercover narcotics officer to make purchases came under attack Friday by a group of defense lawyers representing nine employees of a Ferndale dispensary.

 

Derek Myers, an undercover detective for the Oakland County Sheriff's Office, testified during a probable cause hearing about six visits he made to Clinical Relief in Ferndale in July and August.

 

Myers acknowledged he made the phony card, told the staff at Clinical Relief he had back pain and made several purchases of marijuana. During one visit, he said he sold marijuana to the staff for $140. For the sale, he was given a receipt.

 

Myers said he got approval from his superiors at the Sheriff's Office and from the Prosecutor's Office before making the card, a fake version of those issued by the state to people certified by a physician to use marijuana to treat a medical condition.

 

"You know Clinical Relief wouldn't give it (marijuana) to you unless you had a card?" defense attorney Neil Rockind asked Myers on the stand.

 

Myers replied: "I made up the card so I could buy marijuana."

 

The hearing is examining whether the nine defendants — ranging from receptionists to company owners — should face trial on felony manufacture charges. Prosecutors are challenging the state's law that allows distribution of medical marijuana. They contend the sale of any marijuana is illegal under state law.

 

Lawyers for the defendants said no laws were broken because the clinic operated within rules established by the law that voters passed in 2008. They said Oakland County's prosecutor and sheriff brought the charges to test the state's law.

 

Defense lawyers also argued that because the state considers issuance of the cards private medical information, there is no way for a marijuana dispensary to confirm if a card is real or fake.

 

The accused were arrested Aug. 25 after an Oakland County SWAT team raided the facility and confiscated marijuana, cash and patient records. An alleged warehouse in Macomb County and two clinics in Waterford Township also were raided, leading to other arrests.

 

Judge Joseph Longo asked prosecutors to file written arguments and briefs by Dec. 10. Defense counsel has until Jan. 10 to file responses.

 

 

From The Detroit News: http://www.detnews.com/article/20101106/METRO/11060326/1409/Detective--Medical-marijuana-card-a-fake#ixzz14UcBmfzz

[Hempcheff]

Myers replied: "I made up the card so I could buy marijuana."

 

 

I love this part

[DETROITSINCITY]

There is no way that cops will win this one. How could they be so cold hearted to try and maliciously dismantle a family's LEGAL livelihood??? So the only way they could find a way to bust them was to forge a state medical marijuana license??? wouldn't that be illegal in itself??? shouldn't charges be brought against the officer for that??? Also whats up with the LEO going to patients houses and doing raids there. that's crazy!!! So if CVS gets raided for some reason. i doubt they would come knocking on my door for buying meds from them. well it easy to see who the real criminal is in this case.

[mizerman]

There is no way that cops will win this one. How could they be so cold hearted to try and maliciously dismantle a family's LEGAL livelihood??? So the only way they could find a way to bust them was to forge a state medical marijuana license??? wouldn't that be illegal in itself??? shouldn't charges be brought against the officer for that??? Also whats up with the LEO going to patients houses and doing raids there. that's crazy!!! So if CVS gets raided for some reason. i doubt they would come knocking on my door for buying meds from them. well it easy to see who the real criminal is in this case.

My point exactly.

 

Why hasn't this undercover officer been arrested?

 

 

Mizerman

[phaquetoo]

it was said that the oakland coutny sheriff is testing our new law! I believe we are all testing the new law, and that is the only way we are going to get rid of the grey area's!

 

Peace

FTW

Jim

[DT61]

The entire case is hinged upon "Prosecutors are challenging the state's law that allows distribution of medical marijuana. They contend the sale of any marijuana is illegal under state law."

[Guest d00g]

The "gray area" is a criminal system using tax payers money to test a law tax payers put into place. LEO, with all the resources they need, O.D.'d on testosterone and with guns drawn invade people private lives and wipe them out emotionally and financially and destroy their private property...for what? So LEO can make patients and providers criminals so they can arrest, harass and jail more peaceful people for LEO's gain....THAT IS CRIMINAL...where is the gray area?

[peanutbutter]

Should examine the medical records of the undercover and then have a doctor say the under cover would likely receive benefit from marijuana.

 

And do it all in the court.

[freemannabis]

Is it even "lawful" for a Michigan State prosecutor to be involved in the initial "criminal investigation" of an alleged crime?

 

http://www.michiganprosecutor.org/Process.htm

 

Seems to me that questionable tactics like that work to promote "entrapment".

 

Looks like I'll be doing some research this fine morning.

 

FREE The TREE!

 

SHARE The CURE!

[Marijuana Ranch]

Sounds like the cop is throwing cooper/bouchard under the bus.

'just following orders'

Did not work in other crimes against humanity...

[phaquetoo]

The entire case is hinged upon "Prosecutors are challenging the state's law that allows distribution of medical marijuana. They contend the sale of any marijuana is illegal under state law."

 

 

well i beleive the law says a c.g can distribute mm to thier pt's,,so i dont see how they can say its illegal? but I kind of understand them trying to not have dispensarys, i dont see any where in the law for them or against them. hopefully we win this one, I dont realy care to go to a dispense but I want the option to! and I want others to be able to w/out harrasment!

 

Peace

FTW

Jim

[vitamink]

There are no grey areas in my eyes... I am legal to have meds...he is legal to have meds... we are all legal to have meds.... whats grey about that? So what if ppl give free meds away for a donation.

[freemannabis]

"actus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea"

 

Mens rea?!

 

"What the heck is a "mens rea"!?

 

"The act does not make a person guilty unless the mind be also guilty".

 

The REAL answer to the REAL question that "WE The People" of Michigan are being asked is:

 

"'Guilty' or NOT 'Guilty'?"

 

"Judge not; Lest You be judged accordingly" aside, at least 63% of "WE The People" of Michigan (The ACTUAL People - NOT The PERSECUTORS and PROSECUTORS and other GOVERMENT AGENTS and OPERATIVES ACTING AGAINST WE The PEOPLE! - have already said; "NOT Guilty!"

 

"Plain and Simply" speaking: There is no motive for "criminal intent" to commit any alleged "criminal act" when an "accused" individual is faithfully acting according to the "plain and simple" language, spirit and intent of "The Law".

 

So .... to "quote" Charlton Heston, who was allegedy "quoting" Mosheh (Moses):

 

"Let My People Go" already, eh!?

 

"WE The People" have clearly spoken; So ... how can "Public Officers" of "WE The People," Cooper and Bouchard "lawfully" claim to be acting out "any prosecution" of "WE The People" in the [falsified] "name" of "WE The People," anyway?!

 

To the book case batman.

 

CANNABIS CURES - Without Fears.

 

FREE The CURE!

[LITLJON]

Last Updated: November 06. 2010 1:00AM

Detective: Medical marijuana card a fake

Myers said he got approval from his superiors at the Sheriff's Office and from the Prosecutor's Office before making the card, a fake version of those issued by the state to people certified by a physician to use marijuana to treat a medical condition.

So how did he make the card? Alter a confiscated one? Inquiring mind would like to know.

[TomcatJones]

i'm pretty sure i read that he just made it on the computer at the police department. if he was smart enough to use photoshop i don't know.. so i'm going with mspaint, lol

[DenturesLost]

"actus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea"

 

Mens rea?!

 

"What the heck is a "mens rea"!?

 

"The act does not make a person guilty unless the mind be also guilty".

 

The REAL answer to the REAL question that "WE The People" of Michigan are being asked is:

 

"'Guilty' or NOT 'Guilty'?"

 

"Judge not; Lest You be judged accordingly" aside, at least 63% of "WE The People" of Michigan (The ACTUAL People - NOT The PERSECUTORS and PROSECUTORS and other GOVERMENT AGENTS and OPERATIVES ACTING AGAINST WE The PEOPLE! - have already said; "NOT Guilty!"

 

"Plain and Simply" speaking: There is no motive for "criminal intent" to commit any alleged "criminal act" when an "accused" individual is faithfully acting according to the "plain and simple" language, spirit and intent of "The Law".

 

So .... to "quote" Charlton Heston, who was allegedy "quoting" Mosheh (Moses):

 

"Let My People Go" already, eh!?

 

"WE The People" have clearly spoken; So ... how can "Public Officers" of "WE The People," Cooper and Bouchard "lawfully" claim to be acting out "any prosecution" of "WE The People" in the [falsified] "name" of "WE The People," anyway?!

 

To the book case batman.

 

CANNABIS CURES - Without Fears.

 

FREE The CURE!

Police do things that would be illegal if carried out for different reasons. That's how undercover ops work. Limit that capability and you limit police effectiveness in regard to preventing organized crime, terrorism, etc.

To make it simple: Generally, to be criminally liable you have to have the intent to break the law.

Consider this: You pick up a pack of gum in the store while you are looking for something else. You cannot find that something else. You forgot you had the gum in your hand due to absentmindedness. You walk out. Did you commit retail fraud? No because you have to have the intent, or mens rea, to commit the crime. You have to have the intent to deprive the store of the gum and put it to your own use. If you forgot about the gum you didn't intend to steal, thus no crime.

[me7784]

Let me get this strait. The cops broke the law to arrest people who wernt breaking the law?

[peanutbutter]

Police do things that would be illegal if carried out for different reasons. That's how undercover ops work. Limit that capability and you limit police effectiveness in regard to preventing organized crime, terrorism, etc.

To make it simple: Generally, to be criminally liable you have to have the intent to break the law.

Consider this: You pick up a pack of gum in the store while you are looking for something else. You cannot find that something else. You forgot you had the gum in your hand due to absentmindedness. You walk out. Did you commit retail fraud? No because you have to have the intent, or mens rea, to commit the crime. You have to have the intent to deprive the store of the gum and put it to your own use. If you forgot about the gum you didn't intend to steal, thus no crime.

 

This is a nice way to say that the law was only intended for civilians.

[DenturesLost]

This is a nice way to say that the law was only intended for civilians.

Clearly you didn't read what was written. Did you read the pack of gum example? Do you understand the idea of intent in the law? Do you know what mens rea and actus reus are? Every criminal law requires the actus reus and mens rea to be present for a crime to be committed, unless the law is a "strict liability" sort of law.

 

Exercise your mind. If you just THINK "I'm gonna rob that store today," can you be convicted of robbery? Of course not because while you may have the mens rea you do NOT have the requisite actus reus. See the gum example for an example of the presence of the actus reus but NOT the mens rea. Now, use that information and you can figure out why NO ONE, civilian or non civilian, can be guilty of a crime without both elements being present.

 

Even the crime of conspiracy to commit a crime requires both the mental aspect (eg: agreement between 2 or more parties) AND an ACT in furtherance of the crime. One cannot be convicted of conspiracy to commit a crime just by discussion of a plan to commit a crime with an accomplice.

 

Your idea of a crime would make a cop guilty of a crime the second he took cocaine off a suspect because, afterall, the cop is in possession...

 

I don't get how you are saying the law was intended only for civilians.

[Hempcheff]

Clearly you didn't read what was written. Did you read the pack of gum example? Do you understand the idea of intent in the law? Do you know what mens rea and actus reus are? Every criminal law requires the actus reus and mens rea to be present for a crime to be committed, unless the law is a "strict liability" sort of law.

 

Exercise your mind. If you just THINK "I'm gonna rob that store today," can you be convicted of robbery? Of course not because while you may have the mens rea you do NOT have the requisite actus reus. See the gum example for an example of the presence of the actus reus but NOT the mens rea. Now, use that information and you can figure out why NO ONE, civilian or non civilian, can be guilty of a crime without both elements being present.

 

Even the crime of conspiracy to commit a crime requires both the mental aspect (eg: agreement between 2 or more parties) AND an ACT in furtherance of the crime. One cannot be convicted of conspiracy to commit a crime just by discussion of a plan to commit a crime with an accomplice.

 

Your idea of a crime would make a cop guilty of a crime the second he took cocaine off a suspect because, afterall, the cop is in possession...

 

I don't get how you are saying the law was intended only for civilians.

 

the part about this i that i have a problem with is your comparing peoples lives to a pack of gum.

 

a pack of gum. to get a point across about intent, the advocates on this site are well aware of the intent (to allow patients, registered and unregistered, as well as caregivers, registered and unregistered, adn innocent parties assisting or in the proximity of medical use) of the law if we werent, then the law wouldnt exist, adn people would have no idea they are allowed "medical use". those that are opposed to the intent of the law tend to take a "im telling you this information, you need to believe me over everyone else" attitude.

 

so relax there chief, step off the soapbox and disuss, not disgust!

[bobandtorey]

So how did he make the card? Alter a confiscated one? i do know that we were the first ones to have the court copy are cards

i think they used that to make them

[DenturesLost]

the part about this i that i have a problem with is your comparing peoples lives to a pack of gum.

 

a pack of gum. to get a point across about intent, the advocates on this site are well aware of the intent (to allow patients, registered and unregistered, as well as caregivers, registered and unregistered, adn innocent parties assisting or in the proximity of medical use) of the law if we werent, then the law wouldnt exist, adn people would have no idea they are allowed "medical use". those that are opposed to the intent of the law tend to take a "im telling you this information, you need to believe me over everyone else" attitude.

 

so relax there chief, step off the soapbox and disuss, not disgust!

Get a grip! Look up the word analogy. How was gum being compared to lives? Are you serious????

 

It's called breaking things down into the simplest terms so they are easy to understand. So you suggest I use some example of intent in regard to murder or something to explain the idea of mens rea? What would be acceptable in YOUR book?

 

And WHO is the one on a soap box? Are you kidding? I was the one DISCUSSING and EXPLAINING and YOU are the one COMPLAINING.

 

Basically the only thing that would make you happy is to not broach the topic whatsoever? Pretend it doesn't exist? Elephant in the room....

[bobandtorey]

I think it was a great example,exactly. These people had no intent to break law THEY CAN NOT SEAT A JURY THAT CAN GET PAST HUNG JURY REMEMBER 63 PERCENT not saying pa wont work to keep truth away from jury Court systems have very little common sense and no very little about truth and justice

 

 

Yep i think if we ever get to trail they will never be able to get 12 people to convict us

[Ms Chocolate]

If you just THINK "I'm gonna rob that store today," can you be convicted of robbery? Of course not because while you may have the mens rea you do NOT have the requisite actus reus. See the gum example for an example of the presence of the actus reus but NOT the mens rea.

So if I understand your example correctly, under mens rea the undercover officer (UO) decided that he needed to be able to purchase marijuana from a dispensary. After failed attempts with bogus paperwork, he knew that he would need a State issued card. The officer had the mind set, but not the way?

 

Using a computer program, the UO created a card with the appearance of the State card. We now have actus reus because the purpose of the created card was to purchase the marijuana he would have been otherwise unable to purchase?

 

Or do I have the terms reversed?

[DenturesLost]

So if I understand your example correctly, under mens rea the undercover officer (UO) decided that he needed to be able to purchase marijuana from a dispensary. After failed attempts with bogus paperwork, he knew that he would need a State issued card. The officer had the mind set, but not the way?

 

Using a computer program, the UO created a card with the appearance of the State card. We now have actus reus because the purpose of the created card was to purchase the marijuana he would have been otherwise unable to purchase?

 

Or do I have the terms reversed?

Intent to defraud. There is no intent to defraud when creating the ID.