Your Opinions Please!

[Ms Chocolate]

I was engaged in a conversation about “fake marijuana”. My contention is that there is no such thing. K2 is simply K2, and marijuana is marijuana. The only thing fake is the spin that the media has put on it.

 

We then moved to a discussion of Marinol. While I was being told that Marinol was synthetic THC in a pill form, I suggested that it is government-made, fake hashish, suspended in oil, and encased in cow hoof.

 

Your opinions please!

 

'Fake Marijuana' Users Showing Up in Emergency Rooms

 

Called 'K2' or 'Spice,' the drug is legal in many states

By Jenifer GoodwinHealthDay Reporter

 

THURSDAY, Nov. 11 --(HealthDay News) -- A form of synthetic marijuana known as "K2" is sending young people to the hospital with racing heart beats, extreme anxiety and hallucinations, toxicologists warn.

 

In recent months, physicians and toxicologists say more young people have been showing up in emergency rooms after smoking synthetic marijuana. Despite the side effects, K2 is legal in many states, although many state legislators are rushing to pass legislation banning it.

 

Since the start of 2010, the American Association of Poison Control Centers has received nearly 2,000 reports of people who became ill after smoking K2, compared to about a dozen in 2009. Poison control officials described some of the symptoms as "life-threatening."

 

K2 is often marketed as incense and sold in packets of herbs laced with synthetic marijuana at "head shops," gas stations, convenience stores and online for about $30 to $40 per three-gram bag. The drug also goes by other names, including Spice, Spice Gold, Spice Diamond, Yucatan Fire, Solar Flare, K2 Summit, Genie, PEP Spice, and Fire n Ice, according to the U.S. Drug Intelligence Center.

 

Bing:Bad drug trips

 

While people who smoke K2 think they're going to experience deep relaxation and euphoria, those who end up in the hospital report unpleasant experiences, said Dr. Anthony Scalzo, medical director of the Missouri Poison Center and chief of toxicology at St. Louis University.

 

"The classic symptoms are agitation, anxiety, racing heart beat, elevated blood pressure," Scalzo said. "And some kids are having very negative psychotropic experiences. One said, 'I felt like I went down to hell'."

 

In some cases, the drug also causes vomiting, tremors and seizures, according to federal drug abuse agencies.

 

Scalzo was the first to sound the alarm about K2 earlier this year after seeing a couple of dozen of reports of young people treated at emergency rooms who said they'd smoked K2.

 

 

The drug, also sold under the name Happy Shaman Herbs, Smoke, Skunk and Zohai, among others, was developed for study purposes in the mid-'90s in the lab of John Huffman, a Clemson University chemist, who was conducting National Institute on Drug Abuse-supported research on cannabinoids.

 

The chemical makeup of the drug, which he called JWH-018 and JWH-073, was similar to tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the active ingredient in marijuana, only considerably more potent.

 

While THC is a cannabinoid, it's one of many, Huffman said. There are many other substances that interact with the cannabinoid receptors in the brain and other organs, Huffman said.

 

"These receptors don't exist so that people can smoke marijuana and get high; they play a role in regulating appetite, nausea, mood, pain and inflammation. They may be involved in the development of conditions such as osteoporosis, liver disease and some kinds of cancer," Huffman said. "Synthetic cannabinoids can help us understand these interactions and ultimately this knowledge may contribute to the development of new therapies.

 

Huffman and his colleagues described JWH-018 and JWH-073 in scientific literature. "Evidently some people have figured out how to make them," Huffman said.

 

Huffman warned that the drugs were only meant to be used in the lab and were not designed for use in people, Huffman said. "These compounds were not meant for human consumption," Huffman said. "Their effects in humans have not been studied and they could very well have toxic effects. They absolutely should not be used as recreational drugs."

 

And while the makers of K2 seem to have latched on to JWH-018, many other labs have developed their own synthetic cannabinoids that may also find their way into synthetic marijuana products, Scalzo said.

 

The K2 craze caught on several years ago Europe, prompting several countries to make synthetic cannabis products illegal.

 

In the United States, the Drug Enforcement Agency has listed K2 as a "drug or chemical of concern." But because it isn't officially "scheduled," it remains legal under federal law, according to published reports.

 

Alarmed by the rise in popularity, several states have rushed to outlaw K2. Earlier this year, Kansas became the first state to ban K2. Other states that have outlawed it include Iowa, Missouri, Arkansas, Kentucky, Alabama, Michigan and Illinois (where K2 remains legal until the end of the year). There are similar bills pending in many other states, including Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, New York, New Jersey and Louisiana.

 

Scalzo said the prohibitions don't come a moment too soon. Little is known about the health effects of the drug. But he's heard enough anecdotal reports about strange behavior -- ranging from extreme agitation to withdrawal to a suicide after smoking K2 -- to be concerned.

 

"This chemical was not meant to be used in any kind of pharmaceutical manner," Scalzo said.

 

More information

 

The U.S. National Institute of Drug Abuse has more about synthetic THC.

 

 

 

http://health.msn.com/health-topics/addiction/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100266775&gt1=31036

 

Mod Copied & Pasted

[DT61]

My opinion is that it may have value, but I prefer what God created personally, not what man can synthesize.

[murdock]

I was engaged in a conversation about “fake marijuana”. My contention is that there is no such thing. K2 is simply K2, and marijuana is marijuana. The only thing fake is the spin that the media has put on it.

http://health.msn.co...66775&gt1=31036

 

We then moved to a discussion of Marinol. While I was being told that Marinol was synthetic THC in a pill form, I suggested that it is government-made, fake hashish, suspended in oil, and encased in cow hoof.

 

Your opinions please!

 

I Have not try ed K2 and I don't think i want to ! I hear you can cook with it . BUT it taste like buny muffin !!

[phaquetoo]

its crap, like sniffin amo nitrate, quick rush and gone, cant be good for you!

Peace

FTW

Jim

[Ms Chocolate]

Other than the fact that they created it, why is "fake hash" okay, but “fake marijuana” is not?

[Ionic7]

My opinion is that it may have value, but I prefer what God created personally, not what man can synthesize.

 

 

By that logic god created everything, god created man( if you choose to believe this, for all sakes and purpose lets say you do.) So if god created man and everything its made by god.

[kindbuds]

I think there is promise in some research being done,they are isolating dif canabanoids that do dif things to in turn create new pharmasudicals which is a down side-the upside is the old take was that the plant has no medicinal value and by them doing the research they are indeed finding the elements that do heal--I wish I had a link but I was reading around other night and I have MS-I take a injection every day to help control it which is basically a mix of 4 amino acids that block certain receptors to slow/stop your own immune system from attacking itself-so long story short it sucks taking injections daily and pain and site reactions associated with it as well,now they have isolated a certain cannabinoid which supposedably does the same thing these injections do-so great,wish they would have listed what strain they found it in but wasnt there,now they are trying to recreate the cannabinoid synthetically so they can sell it as a prescription to help those with MS-so basically fake marijauna but im sure it will have a snappy name like ganjaex or potox but in effect it was dirived from pot and now being made synthetically for commercial gain.so my take is undecided as of now.

[DT61]

"By that logic god created everything, god created man( if you choose to believe this, for all sakes and purpose lets say you do.) So if god created man and everything its made by god"

 

I believe He did - but I am sorry I a m failing to understand - God did not create the synthetic version - that would be classified as circular reasoning and void of free will.

[boroboro]

Other than the fact that they created it, why is "fake hash" okay, but “fake marijuana” is not?

 

Marinol is actual delta-9 THC, the exact molecule produced by cannabis, but synthetically generated. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marinol)

 

'Spice' or 'K2' or 'JWH-018' is a different molecule, although it may behave similarly in the brain to THC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spice_%28drug%29)

 

So I would feel much more comfortable with Marinol than Spice, if force to choose one or the other. Delta-9 THC has thousands of years of real-world testing, while these synthetic analog molecules like Spice have very little testing behind them.

 

 

Thankfully I don't have to worry about any of that, as the real thing is right here....

[FloridityNow]

"By that logic god created everything, god created man( if you choose to believe this, for all sakes and purpose lets say you do.) So if god created man and everything [is] made by god"

 

I believe He did - but I am sorry I a m failing to understand - God did not create the synthetic version - that would be classified as circular reasoning and void of free will.

 

Maybe cannabis was left here by some space alien. They dumped their ashtray on fertile ground here while on their way to another galaxy, far far away.

 

Finders keepers, I always say.

[DT61]

We are all entitled to believe as we choose - and it all makes for good discussion if emotions can be tempered.

[FloridityNow]

I was engaged in a conversation about “fake marijuana”. My contention is that there is no such thing.

 

Sounds a little like the big coincidences little coincidences controversy. I say there ARE big coincidences and little coincidences and that such distinctions are primarily where the belief in a higher power originates. Any so-called miracle, for example, would be an example of a huge coincidence. Winning the lottery would be another big coincidence - and considering the incomprehensible odds of winning, who wouldn't feel "blessed by the grace of God" for having selected the divined numbers?

 

Real compared to what?

 

Marijuana is a fake (political) term for cannabis. Cannabis "mimics" cannabinoids used by the human endocannabinoid system.

 

What differences exist for real however, are those measurable by their quantum, or synergistic effect from a predesigned combination of cannabinoids. Synergy defines a sum total that is greater than the face value of the individual parts. If that isn't God, I don't know what is, save for some particle the ones with the great big brains are after with their super, super collider "what's up with that?" thing.

 

Real cannabis provides a biologically self regulating medicinal effect from a distinct but variably complex combination of cannabiniods. Frankenweed and Marinol both exploit only those individual cannabinoids primarily responsible for producing the mildly psychotic effects of cannabis and the results are generally unfavorable compared to the real thing - producing even monstrous effects! Most chemo patients will tell you the real thing works much better for them than Marinol, but it has been reported that British chemo patients found the Frankenweed stil helped ameliorate their condition and restore appetite. What you end up with though, is nothing greater than individual parts with an added element of entropy introduced into the system.

 

Thus far, Frankenweed has provided prohibitionists with en excellent marketing tool of obfuscation - that real or fake, marijuana is a dangerous drug.

[DT61]

So, do you make this statement,"I was engaged in a conversation about “fake marijuana”. My contention is that there is no such thing"Because they are derivatives of cannabis or?

 

[tooldini]

Synthentic marijuana is OK because you don't smoke it. Thats what people would say if they really had to answer since there has never been a medication that you smoke and was prescibed by a DR. at least thats what I heard. People are just OK with popping pills but if you smoke something your taking DRUGS LOL its rediculous and hopefully it will change SOON. I don't see anything wrong with Marinol at all from what I understand it is supposed to be a copy of the earth grown substance. If it works that cool. I would rather take pills than smoke sometimes. I think once I get my grown up I will make some capsules.

[Marijuana Ranch]

420Peace Chocolate,

 

The only thing I want synthetic is motor oil...

[boroboro]

Synthentic marijuana is OK because you don't smoke it. Thats what people would say if they really had to answer since there has never been a medication that you smoke and was prescibed by a DR. at least thats what I heard. People are just OK with popping pills but if you smoke something your taking DRUGS  LOL its rediculous and hopefully it will change SOON. I don't see anything wrong with Marinol at all from what I understand it is supposed to be a copy of the earth grown substance. If it works that cool. I would rather take pills than smoke sometimes. I think once I get my grown up I will make some capsules.

 

One problem with Marinol is that it is only delta-9 THC, without any of the other cannabinoids.  That eliminates many of the medical benefits that come from the other cannabinoids in whole cannabis buds.

 

 

 

[dutch&Dutchess]

The nasty secret of the Research Industry and Educational system is coming out. The truth will always out.

K-2 is a synthetic analog of Delta 9 THC. It is used in research in this country ONLY. It is a powder usually administered intravenously to test subjects. It produces many bad effects BY ITSELF. When using cannabis the deleterious effects are modified and even eliminated by the its sister cannabibinoids. The results from AMERICAN RESEARCH using this substance are worthless, I repeat EVERY STUDY DONE USING K-2(referred to as drobinol et al) IS FALSE SCIENCE and the CONCLUSIONS ARE NOT VALID in respect to the actual therapeutic value of Cannabis.

There are whole journals that only consider research done using this nasty stuff. I have a meta analysis that examines over 5700 such bogus studies and guess what virtually all of them conclude that "cannabis" is bad because Drobinol is observed doing bad things to people when doses unattainable in real life UNMODULATED by other cannabinoids are administered.

Basically our educational system has been co opted by big business buying desired study results to justify their continued profiteering at our expense. Most Professors along with most Doctors are becoming Corporate tools of repression. Intellectualism Bought and Paid for with our tax dollars, blood and sweat.

[greenbuddha]

The nasty secret of the Research Industry and Educational system is coming out. The truth will always out.

K-2 is a synthetic analog of Delta 9 THC. It is used in research in this country ONLY. It is a powder usually administered intravenously to test subjects. It produces many bad effects BY ITSELF. When using cannabis the deleterious effects are modified and even eliminated by the its sister cannabibinoids. The results from AMERICAN RESEARCH using this substance are worthless, I repeat EVERY STUDY DONE USING K-2(referred to as drobinol et al) IS FALSE SCIENCE and the CONCLUSIONS ARE NOT VALID in respect to the actual therapeutic value of Cannabis.

There are whole journals that only consider research done using this nasty stuff. I have a meta analysis that examines over 5700 such bogus studies and guess what virtually all of them conclude that "cannabis" is bad because Drobinol is observed doing bad things to people when doses unattainable in real life UNMODULATED by other cannabinoids are administered.

Basically our educational system has been co opted by big business buying desired study results to justify their continued profiteering at our expense. Most Professors along with most Doctors are becoming Corporate tools of repression. Intellectualism Bought and Paid for with our tax dollars, blood and sweat.

 

 

quote- "Most Professors along with most Doctors are becoming Corporate tools of repression. Intellectualism Bought and Paid for with our tax dollars, blood and sweat."

 

 

D&D, glad to see you back, and I agree 100%.

 

It has reached such a level of corruption that the American Medical Association has told its membership to tone down the amounts that they accept from the 'drug' companies because the 'public' is getting wise to the fact that 'many (not all) medical doctors are taking payments and gifts to 'push' certain drugs to their patients.

 

And 'colleges' also receive huge amounts of money to do research for the 'drug companies' and often a 'professor's' salary is 'enhanced' by money received from these same companies, of course the 'money flow' doesn't continue unless the research performed comes out 'favorable' to what the 'company' wanted to hear.

 

But under current 'law' this is ALL legal... and as you said, the tax payer foots the bill... and meanwhile America uses more and more 'chemicals' that may do as much harm as good.

[greenbuddha]

Maybe cannabis was left here by some space alien. They dumped their ashtray on fertile ground here while on their way to another galaxy, far far away.

 

Finders keepers, I always say.

 

Florry, YES!

 

My mother was an alien... at least 'I' believed she was.

 

But her cooking WAS NOT out of this world... left MUCH to be desired.

 

And as a child I always wondered what those strange plants found around our house were?

 

Thanks to you, now I know.

[greenbuddha]

Sounds a little like the big coincidences little coincidences controversy. I say there ARE big coincidences and little coincidences and that such distinctions are primarily where the belief in a higher power originates. Any so-called miracle, for example, would be an example of a huge coincidence. Winning the lottery would be another big coincidence - and considering the incomprehensible odds of winning, who wouldn't feel "blessed by the grace of God" for having selected the divined numbers?

 

Real compared to what?

 

Marijuana is a fake (political) term for cannabis. Cannabis "mimics" cannabinoids used by the human endocannabinoid system.

 

What differences exist for real however, are those measurable by their quantum, or synergistic effect from a predesigned combination of cannabinoids. Synergy defines a sum total that is greater than the face value of the individual parts. If that isn't God, I don't know what is, save for some particle the ones with the great big brains are after with their super, super collider "what's up with that?" thing.

 

Real cannabis provides a biologically self regulating medicinal effect from a distinct but variably complex combination of cannabiniods. Frankenweed and Marinol both exploit only those individual cannabinoids primarily responsible for producing the mildly psychotic effects of cannabis and the results are generally unfavorable compared to the real thing - producing even monstrous effects! Most chemo patients will tell you the real thing works much better for them than Marinol, but it has been reported that British chemo patients found the Frankenweed stil helped ameliorate their condition and restore appetite. What you end up with though, is nothing greater than individual parts with an added element of entropy introduced into the system.

 

Thus far, Frankenweed has provided prohibitionists with en excellent marketing tool of obfuscation - that real or fake, marijuana is a dangerous drug.

 

Florry, I MUST ask the question.

 

Do you then believe there is a 'prototypic' cannabinoid?

 

And did this 'prototypic' cannabinoid then set 'itself' up a 'receptor' site within the human brain?

 

Quote from Dr. Frankenfurter: 'It's ALIVE... it's ALIVE!

 

Love those metaphysical questions!

[bobandtorey]

http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=6635

 

i will look up a $$ to how much the pills cost? and if their are any CBN'S or CBD'S in them and how much

[FloridityNow]

Florry, I MUST ask the question.

 

Do you then believe there is a 'prototypic' cannabinoid?

 

And did this 'prototypic' cannabinoid then set 'itself' up a 'receptor' site within the human brain?

 

Quote from Dr. Frankenfurter: 'It's ALIVE... it's ALIVE!

 

 

New gallery photo: http://michiganmedic...4-magictimejpg/

[FloridityNow]

Wasn't it the specific breeding by cannabis guru and publisher of 'Treating' magazine, through compliance with the American DEA, that supposedly led to the development of Skunk Weed? - a type of cannabis plant having extremely high THC values and virtually no mediating cannabinoids such as CBD. British studies linked skunk weed consumption during adolescence to later psychosis. Yadda yadda, serenity now... insanity later.

 

A new study just out concludes: Subjects starting frequent cannabis use during their early teenage years have distinctly lower cognitive scores late on, in their twenties, compared to the control groups. "The adolescent brain is different than the adult brain" say researchers, and therefore suggest the need to regulate legalized cannabis to prevent it's use among teens.

 

Now, I know there are arguments against the validity of the British reports and some of those arguments are well founded, but I can't see these latest reports going away or the Moma grizzlies, either, for that matter until THIS matter concerning youth is hammered out.

[FloridityNow]

Florry, YES!

 

My mother was an alien... at least 'I' believed she was.

 

But her cooking WAS NOT out of this world... left MUCH to be desired.

 

And as a child I always wondered what those strange plants found around our house were?

 

Thanks to you, now I know.

 

 

 

God bless Dan Ackroyd.

 

Apparently, genetic material gets spread around the universe as easily as the Little Prince

latches onto celestial birds. It's all the same stuff, this star stuff, having virtually an endless

variety.

 

Why is it always God created this, or God created that. Sheesh. Maybe a cosmic UPS guy

couldn't find the right planet to deliver the cannabis DNA to so he just dumped it here.

 

Like Frankenstein's lab assistant, Igor, you know. We were supposed to get the DNA that

makes us stay fit and trim, have multiple orgasms and live forever, and so on. Instead it

makes us all persecuted, innocent victims of ideological culture wars.

 

Maybe God is a deadbeat dad. He created all this and then simply went away - and so

now all this is simply running amuck.

 

As for which came first, the cannabinoid or the body's cannabinoid receptors, I say the

cannabinoids, by about 3 million years - or about 10,000 Sarah Palin years, give or take

a few millennium.

 

 

 

FloridityNow

[DT61]

"Maybe God is a deadbeat dad. He created all this and then simply went away - and so

now all this is simply running amuck."

 

Well, one this is for certain FloridityNow, we all shall have the answer to any open question in not such a very long time. Everyone born owes a death.

But I do find it just a bit comical that you would say God Bless Dan Ackroyd and then proceed to make statements you did. Big world out there and people are free to think and believe as they will. Again, makes for great discussions as ong as animosity is left at home.