Patient Not Able To Grow Own If Using A Caregiver?

[marcom1234]

i just heard you as a patient give up your right to grow if you designate a caregiver.... is this accurate? or is someone just misled?

that way of thinking sorta makes sense .... just dont know if its true or not. ...

 

can anyone shed some light on this for me?

[ozzrokk]

They are misled or misread. You can designate a caregiver and still

retain your right to grow your own plants as long as you check the

box on the application that the patient will posses the plants. This

is a fact and not speculation or just my interpretation. Hope this

helps you.

[Timmahh]

hmmmm. i wouldnt be so quick.

 

 

as a grower, regardless of you as a pt with grow rights or a CG which have grow rights for assigned patients, one can grow UP TO 12 rooted plants. if as a Pt you say, i want Tom Q Public to be my CG, you effectivly give your right to grow the said 12 plants over to Tom Q Public. So in one sence, you give Tom the right to grow your plants. meaning you can not grow 12 of your own. But that doesnt mean Tom can not grow your 12 plants at YOUR RESIDENCE. just you both can not grow 12 plants if you are the only Pt in the mix.

 

So in that effect, you do give up the right to grow, but dont give up the right to have them grown at your place. as long as you work out a doable arrangement between you and Tom Q Public.

[affordablemimeds]

hmmmm. i wouldnt be so quick.

 

 

as a grower, regardless of you as a pt with grow rights or a CG which have grow rights for assigned patients, one can grow UP TO 12 rooted plants. if as a Pt you say, i want Tom Q Public to be my CG, you effectivly give your right to grow the said 12 plants over to Tom Q Public. So in one sence, you give Tom the right to grow your plants. meaning you can not grow 12 of your own. But that doesnt mean Tom can not grow your 12 plants at YOUR RESIDENCE. just you both can not grow 12 plants if you are the only Pt in the mix.

 

So in that effect, you do give up the right to grow, but dont give up the right to have them grown at your place. as long as you work out a doable arrangement between you and Tom Q Public.

you need to read it again. Yes you Can have a caregiver, and still grow your own plants.

[Timmahh]

hmmm, may i ask, did you have to show records to get your MMJ authorization, or was a card mill used, where one only needs to drop down the money and recieve a signed recommendation?

 

no offense ment or implied. just a simple question.

 

will you be willing to show me the word for word writing in the Mi Law that says you can still grow your own plants, while signing your caregiver responsibility to another person?

[affordablemimeds]

hmmm, may i ask, did you have to show records to get your MMJ authorization, or was a card mill used, where one only needs to drop down the money and recieve a signed recommendation?

 

no offense ment or implied. just a simple question.

 

will you be willing to show me the word for word writing in the Mi Law that says you can still grow your own plants, while signing your caregiver responsibility to another person?

darn dude read the form, even when you assaign a caregiver its asks who has posseion of thr plants. And what does my doctor have to do with this. I have been with Dr Kenewell and he is my primary care doctor,

[ozzrokk]

That is correct tim it is right on the application.

My recommendation requires not only medical

records but qualifying medical records at that.

 

ohh yea it's right here too

 

 

(b) A primary caregiver who has been issued and possesses a registry identification card shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, for assisting a qualifying patient to whom he or she is connected through the department's registration process with the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act, provided that the primary caregiver possesses an amount of marihuana that does not exceed:

 

(1) 2.5 ounces of usable marihuana for each qualifying patient to whom he or she is connected through the department's registration process; and

 

(2) for each registered qualifying patient who has specified that the primary caregiver will be allowed under state law to cultivate marihuana for the qualifying patient, 12 marihuana plants kept in an enclosed, locked facility; and

 

(3) any incidental amount of seeds, stalks, and unusable roots.

[Timmahh]

ok, now where is the wording that says, while the caregiver can grow up to 12 plants for an assigned patient, the patient can also grow for himself?

 

im not trying to be argumentative, just looking for the connection that led you to feel i can grow 12, and then have a CG also grow 12 more for me?

 

 

 

so far 2 have said yes, but have yet to show where it infact says, both can grow.

 

when i checked my box on the application, i had an option like everyone else. that option, depending on which box was checked, ment either I could POSSESS and grow my own up to 12 plants, OR i could have Someone else i name as CG grow those up to 12 plants for me. I never read, and can not recall reading anywhre in the law, where it states in black and white, I can grow 12 for me, and also assign a CG who can also grow an additional 12 for me. I know my eyesight is going down hill since i hit 40, but im not blind, and dont believe (or dont want to believe as the case may be) that i just dont understand what i read to be the law as written?

 

 

 

the way i see it, i dont recall that being part of the law or allowed (me grow 12, and name tom q as cg, and he can also grow 12 more for me), so is it a line written with in the laws i missed, or perhaps mis understood, or is this a case of

 

Well Dispensorys are legal because for the Patient to Patient transfer, or the im a CG to my assinged pt, but im doing a Pt to Pt transfer to anyone who is Not my assinged Pt via the MMMA 08 act pt to pt transfer wording. or the as a cg, i can "AQUIRE MEDS for me Pts, so that MUST Mean a Dispensory is a legal business?

 

now this is all being done while any plausible referance to a dispensory type business was never, and purposely imo, is not mentioned with in the MMMA 08 law.

 

infact, the ONLY mention of any CO Op type grow or any other type of non person to person transfer or co op grow, with exception to a CG with ASSINGED Pts, is in the FAQ section where the question used is:

 

"can a pt form a co operative grow with another pt?"

(strangely enough even this FAQ question is devoid of the word Caregiver, or anything suggesting a co op being done between any one but one sigular patient, and ONE Other sigular patient.

then the answer to said question is ask your local lawyer and PA basically, the MDCH/LARA doesnt have an answer as this is NOT ADDRESSED BY THE CURRENT LAW as written.

 

so is this an perticular interpritation of the laws, or something i just missed reading?

 

again, not being argementative, just tring to see what you guys seen, that says i can grow my own, up to 12 rooted plants, as well as name a specific person as a CG, who can also grow 12 more for my use?

 

your quote of the law above:

 

(b) A primary caregiver who has been issued and possesses a registry identification card shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, for assisting a qualifying patient to whom he or she is connected through the department's registration process with the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act, provided that the primary caregiver possesses an amount of marihuana that does not exceed:

 

not to split hairs, but you can bet our AG is splitting them, so we must also.

 

USE and CULTIVATION are NOT the same thing, i know you know and understand that.

 

But it clearly says he cant be punished for helping a Qualified, Assigned PT to his Caregiver services, for helping his assinged pt to USE MMJ for medicine. that is if the CG does not have Possession of the 12 plants, and the Pt, retains the growing rights.

 

my udnerstanding of the OPs question he says,

i just heard you as a patient give up your right to grow if you designate a caregiver....

, so i take this as he is asking if he assigns a CG to grow 12 plants for him, can he also grow 12 more plants by himself at his place. to which i have to say no. it would be illegal, its a bad idea, and you should procede at our own risk of life in prison should you decide to try to make this interpritation of the law as written. i doubt it will work.

 

but if he is asking if he can keep possesion of his 12 plants, and assign a person as a CG to help him grow, (basically asserting the AD for his named CG, for being in the area of the Pt while the Pt is using/growing MMJ should LEO show up, to protect the CG from wrongful affiliated prosecution)then i say he is misled, and he can assing a CG and still grow 12 plants for his use. but only 12 plants can be grown for any patient at any given point in time, by either the assinged CG, or the Pt themselves.

 

 

but i digress, because while that clearly says a CG can grow for an assigned PT, and to this fact i am not questionion, but where, in our law, does it state, i can grow my own 12 plants, while haveing you as my assigned CG, also growing 12 plants for me, thus making the plant count for me at 24? the 12 i have and 12 my CG has?

 

as you noted, it all depends on WHO has "CUSTODY" for lack of a better term, for the right to grow the Pts 12 plants. the Pt or the CG? it cant be both the way i understand the way its written.

[ozzrokk]

Ohhh I get your confusion. What is being said is you can assign a caregiver and THEN either

the PATIENT OR the CAREGIVER can be assigned to grow the 12 plants. One or the other not both

but you can have a caregiver but that caregiver cannot possess the plants because you have

elected to grow your own plants as the patient. Hope that helps timmahh

[ozzrokk]

Timmahh I just read your edit

 

and I think I get it all now lol.............

To the op I may have to revise my answer if you are asking if you can both

grow in your name NO...... If you are asking if you can assign a caregiver

and still choose to grow your plant and just have the caregiver assist you

with just your medical use then YES.

Sorry if I read it wrong I definetly do not want to mislead anyone on any

part of this law

[Timmahh]

and I think I get it all now lol.............

To the op I may have to revise my answer if you are asking if you can both

grow in your name NO...... If you are asking if you can assign a caregiver

and still choose to grow your plant and just have the caregiver assist you

with just your medical use then YES.

Sorry if I read it wrong I definetly do not want to mislead anyone on any

part of this law

 

that is my only goal also Ozz. i took the OPs ?s as, if he assings a cg, and the CG is growing for him, can he also grow, which is where i may of misunderstood (see my earlier disclaimer post in the above reply about not wanting to know that im wrong. lol let me have my fantacy in pieces. lmao).

[marcom1234]

Wow... i wasnt expecting so much info to the question although i do appreciate it..

 

but yes i was wondering if i could be someones caregiver and then they said " no then i cant grow my own.."

 

so after reading all the posts i will have to believe he is right.... that i cannot be his caregiver and have him still grow.

 

BUT that leads me to another question out of curiousity....

 

can Joe Blow be a patient... and grow his 12 plants.... yet be a care giver for Jill Doe.....and grow 12 more.... or is it a matter of either your a care giver or a patient? but not both...

 

i sure am glad there are people who can read these laws better than me

[affordablemimeds]

Wow... i wasnt expecting so much info to the question although i do appreciate it..

 

but yes i was wondering if i could be someones caregiver and then they said " no then i cant grow my own.."

 

so after reading all the posts i will have to believe he is right.... that i cannot be his caregiver and have him still grow.

 

BUT that leads me to another question out of curiousity....

 

can Joe Blow be a patient... and grow his 12 plants.... yet be a care giver for Jill Doe.....and grow 12 more.... or is it a matter of either your a care giver or a patient? but not both...

 

i sure am glad there are people who can read these laws better than me

Yes you can be his caregiver. And he can still grow his plants. I never said both could grow 12 plants. That was not in the op.

[Catfinger]

"can Joe Blow be a patient... and grow his 12 plants.... yet be a care giver for Jill Doe.....and grow 12 more.... or is it a matter of either your a care giver or a patient? but not both..."

 

 

You can be a Patient and grow your own as long as you've designated yourself as your Caregiver AND grow 12 more for your patient Jill Doe who would have you assigned as her Caregiver also.

 

but.....

 

If you are a patient who has assisged his 12 plants to another Caregiver to grow then you would find on your patient card...."Legal to possess plants" NO. I've never heard of this situation where a patients rights to grow are assigned to someone else as thier Caregiver but then take on another patient and represent them as a Caregiver. It would seem as if the "P" card received showing someone else as Joe Blows Caregiver and then the "C" card showing Joe Blow as the Caregiver for someone else would end up opposing eachother. One showing 'Not legal to possess plants' but then the "C" card giving rights to grow 12 for another patient.

 

Can anyone clarify that scenerio further if you have heard of that happening?

[ozzrokk]

Wow... i wasnt expecting so much info to the question although i do appreciate it..

 

but yes i was wondering if i could be someones caregiver and then they said " no then i cant grow my own.."

 

so after reading all the posts i will have to believe he is right.... that i cannot be his caregiver and have him still grow.

 

You can have a caregiver and still grow your 12 plants as long as you designate

the patient to possess the plants. That I stand by my original answer.

BUT that leads me to another question out of curiousity....

 

can Joe Blow be a patient... and grow his 12 plants.... yet be a care giver for Jill Doe.....and grow 12 more.... or is it a matter of either your a care giver or a patient? but not both...

 

i sure am glad there are people who can read these laws better than me

 

Yes you can be a patient and a caregiver at the same time.

[Catfinger]

So, can you be a Patient who has someone else designated as your Caregiver, and still be a Caregiver for someone else even though your "P" patient card would state "Legal to possess plants" No?

 

I understand someone could be a patient & a Caregiver. I am that situation, but I am also my own Caregiver, but would the above scenerio be the same but you just couldn't grow your OWN plants but could grow those that you are designated to Caregive for?

 

Basically can you be a Caregiver for someone else if you as a patient already designated your Caregiver rights to someone else first?

[Timmahh]

but yes i was wondering if i could be someones caregiver and then they said " no then i cant grow my own.."

 

 

ok, if you are this personons assinged CG, they can grow their own, but they have to mark they are KEEPING POSSESSION of the plants. ie, you are their assinged CG< HELPING THEM GROW.

in most cases, a Pt has the CG Growing for them, in which case. you bud is correct, if you grow his plants, he can not.

 

can Joe Blow be a patient... and grow his 12 plants.... yet be a care giver for Jill Doe.....and grow 12 more.... or is it a matter of either your a care giver or a patient? but not both...

 

and yes, you can be a CG and a PT. SO you can be your own CG, then you can have 5 additonal people name you as their CG, and say you have custody of their up to 12 plants. so you can grow UP TO 12 for you, and up to 12 for each of the up to 5 patients that assinged you as their CG. so if you are a CG/PT, and have 5 assinged Pts, you can then grow up to 72 rooted plants at any given point in time.

[Timmahh]

i would have to say, use at your own risk Catfinger.

 

thats like saying i cant sew, so i hired a seemstress, then taking sewing jobs from neighbors that you yourself do the sewing on.

[Sinsemillaplease]

You can have a caregiver and still grow your 12 plants as long as you designate

the patient to possess the plants. That I stand by my original answer.

 

 

Yes you can be a patient and a caregiver at the same time.

 

Correct. As stated very clearly right here, "(6) If the qualifying patient designates [designation #1] a primary caregiver, a designation [designation #2] as to whether the qualifying patient or primary caregiver will be allowed under state law to possess marihuana plants for the qualifying patient's medical use.

 

There are 2 designations... #1 whether or not there will be a caregiver and #2 who will grow.

 

i would have to say, use at your own risk Catfinger.

 

thats like saying i cant sew, so i hired a seemstress, then taking sewing jobs from neighbors that you yourself do the sewing on.

 

That analogy does not fit. Caregivers, outside of mmj, do not produce medicine whereas seamstresses always sew. Caregivers always take care of patients including dispensing medication in the proper dosage. Mimicking this model mmj caregivers can be limited to the same thing... just helping patients use medicine. Growing the medicine is optional and secondary to the caregiver's first role... giving care.

[marcom1234]

well i appreciate all the helpful info everyone is giving.....

for me the lawyer speak ... even if it seems obvious to others... is difficult to navigate. so im glad i asked because once some of you explain it... it seems obvious lol

thanks again for all the replies

[Jipo]

They are misled or misread. You can designate a caregiver and still

retain your right to grow your own plants as long as you check the

box on the application that the patient will posses the plants. This

is a fact and not speculation or just my interpretation. Hope this

helps you.

 

What sense would that make though? The purpose of a caregiver is to grow your plants and supply you with medicine... If you designated a caregiver but retained the ability to posses plants, essentially that caregiver does nothing?

[rambozo420]

What sense would that make though? The purpose of a caregiver is to grow your plants and supply you with medicine... If you designated a caregiver but retained the ability to posses plants, essentially that caregiver does nothing?

What about the patient who wants to grow but have reliable meds until there harvest.and when the harvest comes in that caregiver could hold 2.5 for the patient until they need it.The caregiver could also give grow advice starter genetics basically everything a caregiver can do without growing 12 more plants.

[Hempcheff]

The purpose of a "Primary" caregiver is to provide "an uninterrupted supply of medicine" but the role encompasses so much more.

 

I grow my own, but i have a caregiver that always has medicine in supply for me. I have a support system so that i will always have an uninterrupted supply of medicine. I have yet to call on my CG for my personal supply, but have acquired medicine from him to transfer to another patient that had tried her first grow and had a severe die off, lost all her plants, on public assistance and no other source for meds or genetics at the time being so new to the program. I was proud that i had my saftey net in place to help her.

[The Digital Nomad]

Or - Just understand P2P. Instead of chaining all these CGs and plant locations - just grow your own - and as a patient do P2P - that opens up many venues - farmer's market, brokers, other patient growers.

 

Keep it simple.

 

-DN

[ozzrokk]

What sense would that make though? The purpose of a caregiver is to grow your plants and supply you with medicine... If you designated a caregiver but retained the ability to posses plants, essentially that caregiver does nothing?

 

There are a number of reasons snd things a caregiver could do. It all depends on your needs.