Patients :(

[CedarSpringsCG]

she never said she possessed it it all at one time-you are allowed to have 2.5 ounces as a patient and your CAREGIVER can hold another 2.5 ounces for you... LEGALLY YOU COULD GAIN ACCESS TO 2.5 OUNCES EVERY MINUTE IF YOU COULD CONSUME THAT MUCH-lets not be ridiculous- this is about providing the best meds as cheaply as possible to as many patients that are in need-if you cannot do it inexpensively, i am sorry to hear that ... you should reconsider your strains and methods and growing under the sun is nearly free!

Growing under the sun, while clearly a lot cheaper is not an option in winter, is not an option to produce good quality meds during summer, you can't time it, you can't just stick it in the ground and wait till it is ready to harvest. Which is once a year unless you are running crap autoflower strains that no one wants and you end up with lots of hermies. You should think before you get all nasty on posts, acting like you are better than everyone else, because clearly, you have no making whoopee clue.

 

I can turn plants every 8 weeks, depending on strain. Outside you can't do that, run a much higher risk of exposure, rippers, and LEO. Not to mention bugs.

 

So if you want crap ditch weed, stick it outside, let it get beaten by the wind, rain, take forever to complete, get eaten by bugs, and like I said, get 1 harvest a year. If it were really that simple, everyone would grow it themselves. But then again, everyone would be in jail because even with a locked fence, they are going to arrest you.

 

It is hard to supply good meds consistantly when you have 8 months between harvest, unless you HUGELY go over weight limits.

 

Maybe you need to get a clue about reality, however if you are growing outside, it will come, pretty soon I bet, and then you will be asking all of us to come support you in court. The rest of us smart CG's, who don't have to go over weight, and can much better hide our grows will be at home, tending our plants while you get beaten by frank, your new cellmate.

[tooldini]

I would think every caregiver that grows outside would have to spend plenty of months WAY WAY WAY over weight. So outside not much of an option as a caregiver plus you will eventually get caught and if you do get out of trouble it will cost you. I think it would be nice to be able to legally grow outdoors but it seems to be controversial. Some says it legal if it is totally enclosed on all sides and even the top but not sure I would wanna risk it. Then you have to deal with the pounds of cannabis you will have sitting around the house and the cops do not like that LOL

[LansingAreaCaregiver]

I have been a grower since 87-88-i know what it takes-the ability to read a book or ten-mostly patience, some luck, the ability to listen, be humble, always learning and think like a plant then give them what they want.

 

i can only use so much and when there are overages they are traded for compensation to other patients as well as clones and seed-also donated to those who do not have meds at the moment

I GET UP TO 4 OUNCES FREE A MONTH if i so choose!

-----my CG does just fine!

and there is plenty to go around too.

 

THIS IS A PATIENTS MOVEMENT!

THERE WOULD NOT BE C.G'S WITHOUT OUR PATIENT LAW

THIS IS NOT ABOUT MONEY

THIS IS ABOUT MEDICINE

THIS IS ABOUT EMPATHY

THIS IS ABOUT INCREASING THE QUALITY OF LIFE FOR ALL

THIS IS ABOUT HEALING!

 

GOOD LUCK WITH WHAT YOU ARE DOING...because you wont be getting rich anytime soon by following the M.M.M.Act of 2008

 

THIS IS A PATIENTS MOVEMENT! - No, this is a medical movement, with many different parties including doctors, patients, caregivers, grow shop owners, politicians, lawyers, media/journalists and more each with their own skin in the game and working towards their own ends. To think otherwise is very naive. But go ahead and keep alienating everyone else and see where that gets you.

THERE WOULD NOT BE C.G'S WITHOUT OUR PATIENT LAW- There would also be many patients unable to access meds without caregivers (and even dispensaries.) So come down off that high horse, boss. We're all in the same boat, and it does no good to try to put holes in "the other guy's end of the boat." We'll all end up sinking.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT MONEY - To YOU. Different people are motivated by different things. If someone gets into caregiving for $$ and does a great job at it, more power to them. There is room for both restaurants and soup kitchens, profit driven caregivers and those who grow for the warm fuzzies it gives them.

THIS IS ABOUT MEDICINE - Agreed.

THIS IS ABOUT EMPATHY - For YOU. Again, see the point about money.

THIS IS ABOUT INCREASING THE QUALITY OF LIFE FOR ALL - Caregivers need to feed their families, too. Sometimes we even like to take them on vacation, and that costs money.

THIS IS ABOUT HEALING! - For some. For others it is about alleviating suffering, or being in control of their own medical decisions, or doing what you've always dreamed of doing and starting your own business.

 

 

[tooldini]

Lansingareacaregiver

[MORE COWBELL]

THIS IS A PATIENTS MOVEMENT! - No, this is a medical movement, with many different parties including doctors, patients, caregivers, grow shop owners, politicians, lawyers, media/journalists and more each with their own skin in the game and working towards their own ends. To think otherwise is very naive. But go ahead and keep alienating everyone else and see where that gets you.

THERE WOULD NOT BE C.G'S WITHOUT OUR PATIENT LAW- There would also be many patients unable to access meds without caregivers (and even dispensaries.) So come down off that high horse, boss. We're all in the same boat, and it does no good to try to put holes in "the other guy's end of the boat." We'll all end up sinking.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT MONEY - To YOU. Different people are motivated by different things. If someone gets into caregiving for $ and does a great job at it, more power to them. There is room for both restaurants and soup kitchens, profit driven caregivers and those who grow for the warm fuzzies it gives them.

THIS IS ABOUT MEDICINE - Agreed.

THIS IS ABOUT EMPATHY - For YOU. Again, see the point about money.

THIS IS ABOUT INCREASING THE QUALITY OF LIFE FOR ALL - Caregivers need to feed their families, too. Sometimes we even like to take them on vacation, and that costs money.

THIS IS ABOUT HEALING! - For some. For others it is about alleviating suffering, or being in control of their own medical decisions, or doing what you've always dreamed of doing and starting your own business.

 

 

 

 

then i guess we agree to disagree...we have something pretty special out west here in Michigan...

a lot help eachother out whenever they can

 

YOU THINK PATIENTS ARE DUMB-STOOPID???????????????????????????????????

 

IF A CG GROWS 72 PLANTS FROM CLONE THATS A AVG 12 WEEK CYCLE

YOU CAN GET 4 A YEAR YOU

CAN GET A MINIMUM 3 ZIPS A PLANT DRY (not hard to do)

spend 10 grand in startup-(cheap by business standards)

and stuff the room full of clones for 2 weeks then flower for 10

[1] 72 ounces x 3 = 216 zips

[2] 216 ounces x 4 = 864 zips

[3] 6 patients x 4 zips a months x 12 months =288 zips a year

[4] 288 zips subracted from 864 zips = 576 ZIPS

 

what is the price you get from a dispensary for your OVERAGES?

 

576 OUNCES LEFT OVER FOR THE CARE GIVER TO DO WHAT THEY PLEASE WITH-i am not bad at math either

cant Bullshite a bullshiter my friends the JIG is up! MEDS SHOULD BE FREE or next to Free... if you cant make it work then grow for just yourself because you are not cut out to be a caregiver-A PROPER ONE AT THAT

-if you cannot take care of yourself and your patients with what you grow.............

AND THIS WAS A VERY CONSERVATIVE NUMBER

dont tinkle on us and tell us its warm rain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you have been warned

 

this is a crap post and argument ! i dont even like to throw the numbers up for all to see because the WRONG SORTS may be reading with interest..and i am not down with giving them any more info than they already have...this topic has been covered at depth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

and NO the 2008 M.M.M.Act was for patients

not for any other reason!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

if you doubt me contact the folks who wrote our law for the INTENT of our law-CG-Dispensary-lawyers etc etc are along for the ride... nothing more

[MORE COWBELL]

and if you cannot figure how to grow using free sunlight the rest of the 8 months its not snowing out sorry... someone should be able to help if you ask nicely

 

and

 

 

HAVE A LOVELY DAY

[Nix]

Why all the shouting guys?

[tooldini]

LOL this is getting funny now,, I guess if you type with BIG fonts it is more powerful. Morel of the story is everyone thinks differently and NO patient should every assume this medicine is FREE thats just rediculous perioud. I have been a patient over a year and never once did I read anywere that I should not have to pay for it.

[CedarSpringsCG]

LansingAreaCaregiver

 

More Cowbell - Yes, and exactly what you state here is ILLEGAL from all points of view.

 

IF A CG GROWS 72 PLANTS FROM CLONE THATS A AVG 12 WEEK CYCLE -- ILLEGAL, cause where are you getting 72 clones from, either paying $15+ a piece, over $1000 each cycle, or you have mother plants, and to supply 72 clones you would need I would say probably more than 10. So, since you have no mother plants to grow 72, you just blew $5000 in clones for 4 cycles.

 

YOU CAN GET 4 A YEAR -- Yep, but not growing outdoors you can't. MMJ flowers on photocycles, so until the sun is out less than 14 hours a day, you aren't going to bloom. So you get 1 outdoors. You just proved you know nothing about growing.

 

YOU CAN GET A MINIMUM 3 ZIPS A PLANT DRY (not hard to do) - Your right, I get more than that easily, grown in doors, where I can control the temp. Plants do NOT like it when it tops 80 degrees. Also bugs are a big factor, so unless you are using poison, you get a LOT less.

 

spend 10 grand in startup-(cheap by business standards) -- Won't even nearly get you a room for 72 plants. Also you need to think about ongoing cost of nutrients, electricity, etc.

 

and stuff the room full of clones for 2 weeks then flower for 10

[1] 72 ounces x 3 = 216 zips -- Illegal, can't have more than 15... 5 years in jail

 

[2] 216 ounces x 4 = 864 zips -- illegal, can't have more than 15 another 5 years in jail

 

[3] 6 patients x 4 zips a months x 12 months =288 zips a year -- No, they get nothing as it is all with LEO as evidence

 

[4] 288 zips subracted from 864 zips = 576 ZIPS -- for the LEO, the CG and PT get nothing, it is all evidence, and the CG gets 3 meals a day, 1 hour of excercise, and free healthcare. The PT's who need free healthcare are now looking for a new CG to send to prison for life...

 

Your logic only works if you work illegally. I do not. Most CG's do not. So, you as a PT cannot ask me to do something illegal just so you get free meds, because that is NOT a legal defense in court, "Your honor, More Cowbell told me this was how to do it, so I shouldn't go to Jail..."

 

Wrong. It is illegal, and right now I am kinda hoping some LEO knocks on your door soon, so you can spend $15,000+ to prove to us all that you are right. Hope you are able to, cause if you have 72 oz on hand from a harvest, you will go to jail, and not pass go, and they won't let you out. You would be almost 5 times over your limit.

 

Cedar

[MasterKush]

More Cowbell...

Your numbers are way off base for about 95% of the caregiver population...But go ahead and keep thinking you know what you are talking about...and the people who dont have their heads in the clouds will keep laughing at your ridiculous post

[tooldini]

what cedarsprings says is correct

[Nix]

YOU CAN GET 4 A YEAR -- Yep, but not growing outdoors you can't. MMJ flowers on photocycles, so until the sun is out less than 14 hours a day, you aren't going to bloom. So you get 1 outdoors. You just proved you know nothing about growing.

 

You can cover your greenhouse with black plastic to initiate flowering. Using autoflowering seeds you could also have more than one harvest per year. In addition to that you could veg your plants indoors and then put them outside in late summer getting the best of both worlds.

[CedarSpringsCG]

You can cover your greenhouse with black plastic to initiate flowering. Using autoflowering seeds you could also have more than one harvest per year. In addition to that you could veg your plants indoors and then put them outside in late summer getting the best of both worlds.

 

Autoflowers suck. You are correct, but it won't be anything near what I can do indoors.

 

And black plastic sorta works, but you end up with issues because ANY light will cause them to have problems. And what are you going to do, uncover in the morning before you go to work, cover back up when you get home? Hope it doesn't top 12 hours a day?

 

You still don't have a solution for jail...

[Dr. Bob]

[/size][/i][/color]

 

 

then i guess we agree to disagree...we have something pretty special out west here in Michigan...

a lot help eachother out whenever they can

 

YOU THINK PATIENTS ARE DUMB-STOOPID???????????????????????????????????

 

IF A CG GROWS 72 PLANTS FROM CLONE THATS A AVG 12 WEEK CYCLE

YOU CAN GET 4 A YEAR YOU

CAN GET A MINIMUM 3 ZIPS A PLANT DRY (not hard to do)

spend 10 grand in startup-(cheap by business standards)

and stuff the room full of clones for 2 weeks then flower for 10

[1] 72 ounces x 3 = 216 zips

[2] 216 ounces x 4 = 864 zips

[3] 6 patients x 4 zips a months x 12 months =288 zips a year

[4] 288 zips subracted from 864 zips = 576 ZIPS

 

what is the price you get from a dispensary for your OVERAGES?

 

576 OUNCES LEFT OVER FOR THE CARE GIVER TO DO WHAT THEY PLEASE WITH-i am not bad at math either

cant Bullshite a bullshiter my friends the JIG is up! MEDS SHOULD BE FREE or next to Free... if you cant make it work then grow for just yourself because you are not cut out to be a caregiver-A PROPER ONE AT THAT

-if you cannot take care of yourself and your patients with what you grow.............

AND THIS WAS A VERY CONSERVATIVE NUMBER

dont tinkle on us and tell us its warm rain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you have been warned

 

this is a crap post and argument ! i dont even like to throw the numbers up for all to see because the WRONG SORTS may be reading with interest..and i am not down with giving them any more info than they already have...this topic has been covered at depth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

and NO the 2008 M.M.M.Act was for patients

not for any other reason!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

if you doubt me contact the folks who wrote our law for the INTENT of our law-CG-Dispensary-lawyers etc etc are along for the ride... nothing more

 

You seem to forget that as a caregiver, you are allowed to grow what your patients NEED, not all you can produce. You are not a commercial farmer growing everything you can grow. You should have NO overages other than a small amount to take into account bug losses, etc. To fully be in compliance you need to calculate what your patients need, calculate the output of a plant and plant accordingly. Your skill at those estimates and not your total production capacity is one excellent measure of caregiver skill which is more important than maximum yield.

 

The Law is the Law. Follow it. Not a commercial production grow. Furthermore, pricing under the law is not 'what the market will bear' it is the cost of production and labor only. It isn't strain specific. The only other factor that comes in is customer service- you answer your phone, you have meds for your patients, and you don't generate problems by having large overages (or have a good plan to deal with them involving your patients).

 

Dr. Bob

[Scooter]

This is too funny. I grow top shelf, outdoors. To think that indoors is superior is dead wrong. Let's see, the plants natural environment it has acclimated to for umpteen million years or an artificially created one. Hmmmm....... and my meds are top shelf. Check postings by patients I have serviced. To think a good CG shouldn't be compensated is why there are dispensaries; CGs want to make money as well and unfortunately the dispensaries rape patients because of this. Did I say too funny? I should have said too sad.

 

Dr. Bob, your model is already going. Quite well, thank you.

[Dr. Bob]

This is too funny. I grow top shelf, outdoors. To think that indoors is superior is dead wrong. Let's see, the plants natural environment it has acclimated to for umpteen million years or an artificially created one. Hmmmm....... and my meds are top shelf. Check postings by patients I have serviced. To think a good CG shouldn't be compensated is why there are dispensaries; CGs want to make money as well and unfortunately the dispensaries rape patients because of this. Did I say too funny? I should have said too sad.

 

Dr. Bob, your model is already going. Quite well, thank you.

 

Excellent, no problems with LEO I take it then?

 

Dr. Bob

[LansingAreaCaregiver]

"576 OUNCES LEFT OVER FOR THE CARE GIVER TO DO WHAT THEY PLEASE WITH"

 

Do what they please with? Like sell to the dispensaries that you rail against? Or should they provide those 576 ounces to non-patients? Or should they provide those 576 ounces to other non-connected patients (thus passing YOUR costs to other people.) Oh, I know! Caregivers should keep those 576 ounces for themselves...you know, use over an ounce and a half every single day?!

 

Sorry, the poster above was correct. Those 576 ounces serve the caregiver no practical purpose other than building a case for their local prosecutor.

 

 

[LansingAreaCaregiver]

"and NO the 2008 M.M.M.Act was for patients

not for any other reason!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

if you doubt me contact the folks who wrote our law for the INTENT of our law-CG-Dispensary-lawyers etc etc are along for the ride... nothing more"

 

1 More Thing...the folks who wrote this bill got the ball rolling, they didn't pass the law. If you want to know the "reasons" (and yes that IS plural for a reason) go out and ask the voters of MI who actually voted for this bill why THEY chose to make it law. I know that many looked at this as an opportunity to:

• Help MI pull itself out of the recession
• Create Jobs
• Create Tourism
• Send a message to the government that they've had enough of the war on drugs
• Get the government out of their personal choices
• And more

But you keep on shouting! You keep on encouraging people to have MASSIVE overages, putting themselves in legal jeopardy and passing along your costs to other people! I'm dure when you read a headline that an undercover has been bought 576 ounces of overages from a caregiver using your formula, you'll be donating to their legal defense fund and do a great job talking to the media and lawmakers about how this caregiver was operating within the act!

[Dr. Bob]

Well said.

 

Dr. Bob

[CedarSpringsCG]

One more thing. If all caregivers were to adopt More Cowbell's model, there would be no dispensaries, because all PT's were covered 100% for free. So, no dispensaries, and no PT that is in need, those 576 oz now have no where to go except the street. Which puts all CG's in jail, and the PT's are now back to having nothing if they can't grow themselves.

 

Scooter - I bet you can grow outside just fine. And I bet it does well. Outdoor plants tend to be HUGE producers, given a longer veg cycle. However we take a plant that is made for umpteen million years to grow 1-2 cycles per year and indoor growers can get 4-5 cycles.

 

So sure you found a loophole that works for you, but it won't work for most others.

 

Also, if you are storing full plants, are they in a humidor? Otherwise they will overdry and not be nearly as smooth and tasty as properly cured plants. I might be wrong, but tons of books agree with me, from people who have been growing for a lot longer than you and I put together. Without the humidor keeping the perfect humidity, mold or overdrying will be a major concern. I would think your model would require one of those big walk in humidors like at smoke shops.

 

So, you did find a local LEO that accepts what you are doing, and have a model that works for you, but it doesn't work for most other CG's out there.

 

At no point was I saying these plants won't grow outdoors and produce. What I was saying is that for most CG's that don't have the space for a proper greenhouse, growing outdoors in a dog kennel doesn't give you the ability to pull 5 cycles a year and stay legal. Your loophole wouldn't fly in most counties in MI.

JMO

Cedar

[tooldini]

Good points from both of you lansing and cedarsprings. Very good points, but the funny thing still is that there isn't a patient on here that can explain without being selfish that they deserve free meds. Its like saying I deserve free Groceries cause the store can sell it to others and make money this just sound so stupid and it makes people that say sound stupid and I know they really aren't. If it is just because you can't afford the meds just say so. Myself and many others would help in a pinch I am sure. I think that if your caregiver gets in trouble there may be a risk that you will be visited also not sure on this but you never know.

[MORE COWBELL]

i never said i was a CG did i?

and do i use that model?

i was posting up numbers to quell dissent just seems i have stirred the nest-been at it since 87-88-my point is

 

ITS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE

IT DOES TAKE A LITTLE BRAINS AND LUCK

PLANTS GROW THEMSELVES IF YOU PROVIDE THE NECESSARY ELEMENTS AND KEEP OUT THE BAD

 

MEDS SHOULD BE CLOSE TO THE SAME PRICE AS CORN TO GROW

 

when flipping a house sweat equity is just that ...sweat

 

what is a fair wage for their time?????????????????????????????????what is the market price for their time?

thats why AG community hires mexican labor or we would be paying 5 dollars for a head of lettuce-and nothing when everyone is growing lettuce and its plentiful

 

if it was a perfect world- growers would get 400 an oz and patients would get it for free... does not work that way

market forces do create a price floor- demand & supply dictate price even in a local markets-someone has to pay

 

funny thing it should be like growing & picking Beans stress free and cheap

but all the greedy people want more and more

When i Grow veggies in my gardens i eat some, my family eats some and my neighbors eat some-some goes to the local food banks and some gets sold on a street corner or at a market-WHO OR WHAT I DECIDE TO CHARGE IS UP TO ME-if someone trys to sell the same Tomato as i and sells the same Tomato for 1/3 the price i am charging... guess who is not going to be selling any tomatoes that day unless they lower prices or talk to the competitor about price fixing/price floor........this is a messed up world.....so....

dispensaries are needed, compassion clubs are needed and canna markets are needed-until every patient has their network that guarantees access to meds for them at all times as cheaply as possible

and this is a patient movement

TO YOU THIEVES you know who you are your days are numbered

this is not a growers movement- a doctors movement- a grow stores movement-a legalization movement(some would argue) a legislative movement or a CARE GIVERS MOVEMENT--------------------the patients own the plants not the CG

caregiver is allowed to possess the plants and tend to the plants for the patient- WHERE IN THE MMMA2008 DOES IT STATE OTHERWISE?

 

THERE WOULD STILL BE PATIENT/USER'S WHEN CAREGIVERS, GROW STORES, DISPENSARIES, CERT MILLS AND DOCTORS ARE ALL LONG GONE

 

i know how it is here in Holland-you can easily find free meds if you need them-Neighbor helping Neighbor MMM Act of 2008 .....true compassion

[MORE COWBELL]

 

 

I can turn plants every 8 weeks, depending on strain. Outside you can't do that, run a much higher risk of exposure, rippers, and LEO. Not to mention bugs.

 

 

you can if you have the right setup

[tooldini]

this is exactly why I can't figure how patients (I am a patient) think they should get guaranteed free meds.

this is not a growers movement- a doctors movement- a grow stores movement-a legalization movement(some would argue) a legislative movement or a CARE GIVERS MOVEMENT--------------------the patients own the plants not the CG

caregiver is allowed to possess the plants and tend to the plants for the patient- WHERE IN THE MMMA2008 DOES IT STATE OTHERWISE?

I agree with this.

Caregivers should be at the least offered something for their efforts and care of patients plants. I know Johnnywho says he will help with other things if he cannot pay so thats cool. If your wanting to barter you should be posting on my site which is in my profile.

[MORE COWBELL]

and FURTHERMORE...

 

REGULAR Business model

 

wholesaler sells to distributor-retailer buys from distributor or from wholesaler everyone along the way adds "Their Cost" for handling item

 

STANDARD RETAIL MARKUP on GOODS ranges from 100% to 300% gross markup this is not NET profits after costs

i have worked within MGMT and within the Business world long enough to know these truths-

 

what is the prevailing wage for a FARMER?????????????

 

sometimes they corner the market and make a killing

sometimes they make a little

sometimes they they just break even

and

sometimes they lose the farm taking a loss and getting wiped out-ONLY BIG AGRICULTURE CAN GUARANTEE 5% growth y.o.y.

BIG AG RAPES YOU to make sure they stay afloat in bad times or a calamity happens like Locusts

 

with all this being said

we should be paying nothing for meds or $1000 an ounce... who is to decide?????????????

 

i could get 36 lbs out of 12 plants... do i? NO

like i said

 

 

IF YOU FOLLOW THE INTENT AND GUIDELINES OF THE 2008 MMMA you wont get rich...none of us are...but we are fairly happy for today