What About The Low-Income People?

[OG Fire Beaster]

And when you say they have always been here, I am curious how much of a presence you figure they have had? Other than personal amounts and the like I am calling BS.  Before this law and maybe even now the vast majority of MJ on the ground here in Michigan came here by way of Mexico thru Chicago.  The rest was grown right here.  Before this law there was no reason for them states to import their goods here, they have a tough enough time supplying their own markets (pre-MMJ)

 

Whatever you say man.

[Celliach]

About how much would it cost in total to get started with a small op? And how much money would it cost a month to operate? I wonder. ..

You can get up and running for yourself, for about $300.

[GanjaWarrior]

I think you missed his point. Cgs often take on one low income patient and the other 4 pts agree to help cover. So, selling illegally? No, I don't think that's what he meant. But speaking of selling illegally, isn't that what people were doing who sold to dispenaries? So it was okay there but, if they are selling illegally, not now?

 

GW you don't exactly come off as some compassionate person. Seems more like you are mad that your income source was cut off. Of course I don't know, just indicating the impression you leave in your wake.

weak cav, real weak. when im reminding you we forgot and left folks out in the cold, and your screaming just close the door....Its not me being greedy, I am the one showing care and concern. you have an agenda to stick to and must insist that these people are not real...

[CaveatLector]

weak cav, real weak. when im reminding you we forgot and left folks out in the cold, and your screaming just close the door....Its not me being greedy, I am the one showing care and concern. you have an agenda to stick to and must insist that these people are not real...

No screaming.  You characterizing it as such does not make it so.

 

As for an agenda, yes, you are correct.  My agenda is to maintain the current system where patients primarily, and caregivers secondarily, are allowed to grow their own.  I have no interest in a system that will end up dismantling this.  Your short term gain has forced your short-sightedness.

[GanjaWarrior]

No screaming.  You characterizing it as such does not make it so.

 

As for an agenda, yes, you are correct.  My agenda is to maintain the current system where patients primarily, and caregivers secondarily, are allowed to grow their own.  I have no interest in a system that will end up dismantling this.  Your short term gain has forced your short-sightedness.

your still doing that thing where you try to insinuate that im doing what your doing. i have nothing to gain from this. i grow for myself, my mom, my brother. i dont make money, in fact im in debt, i dont go to disp, been in one in my life, only because i was there to buy a vaporizer. see my agenda is to be concerned about pts, and to end this war on nature. you are the one pretending needy people are not real, your the one protecting the mighty wallet. Im the one reminding you while you think everything's perfect, people are suffering.

[CaveatLector]

your still doing that thing where you try to insinuate that im doing what your doing. i have nothing to gain from this. i grow for myself, my mom, my brother. i dont make money, in fact im in debt, i dont go to disp, been in one in my life, only because i was there to buy a vaporizer. see my agenda is to be concerned about pts, and to end this war on nature. you are the one pretending needy people are not real, your the one protecting the mighty wallet. Im the one reminding you while you think everything's perfect, people are suffering.

I'm neither a patient nor caregiver so whose wallet, exactly, is it I am protecting?  I am in a unique position to have no dog in this fight other than the desire to see patient rights protected. 

 

I am not pretending needy people don't exist.  They do.  But some convoluted way of taking care of them (giving caregivers a windfall on the needy patients' plant rights) isn't kosher.  There are needy people out there that cannot afford their heart meds every month. Should we design a system whereby their meds are provided free of charge beyond what medicaid or care covers?

[michaelscott]

 

Should we design a system whereby their meds are provided free of charge beyond what medicaid or care covers?

Yes

[CaveatLector]

Yes

Then that means we have a philosophical difference.  That is pointless to argue. 

[GanjaWarrior]

yes, compassion is the point. not just compassion for some, but for all.

[GanjaWarrior]

I'm neither a patient nor caregiver so whose wallet, exactly, is it I am protecting?  I am in a unique position to have no dog in this fight other than the desire to see patient rights protected. 

 

I am not pretending needy people don't exist.  They do.  But some convoluted way of taking care of them (giving caregivers a windfall on the needy patients' plant rights) isn't kosher.  There are needy people out there that cannot afford their heart meds every month. Should we design a system whereby their meds are provided free of charge beyond what medicaid or care covers?

 

then i really dont know what you're doing cav, all I've done is tried to stick up for those in need, the very same people you guys insist do not  exist. standing up for those in need, gets me attacked by you. im really lost, dont know what your doing. you keep saying you care, but then insist everything's ok. compassion doesn't come from the bird with his head in the sand....

[GregS]

Yes

What would that system look like?

[michaelscott]

Then that means we have a philosophical difference. That is pointless to argue.

I have often found a lively debate to not only affirm my ideals but to open my eyes to others ideals and in some cases have caused me to change my position on a philosophical level. Anyway I wasn't trying to start an arguement, but I do believe in not letting people die unnecessarily.

[CaveatLector]

then i really dont know what you're doing cav, all I've done is tried to stick up for those in need, the very same people you guys insist do not  exist. standing up for those in need, gets me attacked by you. im really lost, dont know what your doing. you keep saying you care, but then insist everything's ok. compassion doesn't come from the bird with his head in the sand....

Maybe you coud back that up with a nice cut/paste where I insisted everything is okay?  That would be nice because then you wouldn't be blowing smoke out your donkey.

 

There will always be patients who fall through the cracks.  How many times have we heard about cgs who sign a pt and then the pt never hears fom them again?  Why?  Cg wanted grow rights to sell to a dispensary.  Simple as that.  A cg can sign 5 pts and promise them all a free oz/month.  Then just ignore the pt.  Sell that oz to the dispensary and make how much per month doing that?  Why give a pt an oz when you can easily get another with the promise of free mj?  Somehow you think your system is sustainable. 

Edited March 28, 2013 by CaveatLector

[CaveatLector]

I have often found a lively debate to not only affirm my ideals but to open my eyes to others ideals and in some cases have caused me to change my position on a philosophical level. Anyway I wasn't trying to start an arguement, but I do believe in not letting people die unnecessarily.

I agree.  But this probably isn't the thread to get into that.  This type of discussion would end up being 100 pages just like that gun control thread. 

[michaelscott]

Why give a pt an oz when you can easily get another with the promise of free mj? Somehow you think your system is sustainable.

Because most people aren't aholez and all that overlap of paperwork could add even more risk. I can only speak for myself but I had two patients that received everything they wanted free of charge for almost two years. In fact the fm also offered a great situation for swapping which my patients appreciated as well. Ah those were the days

[michaelscott]

I agree. But this probably isn't the thread to get into that. This type of discussion would end up being 100 pages just like that gun control thread.

For sure, we agree, we agree we agree!!!!

[GanjaWarrior]

Maybe you coud back that up with a nice cut/paste where I insisted everything is okay?  That would be nice because then you wouldn't be blowing smoke out your donkey.

 

There will always be patients who fall through the cracks.  How many times have we heard about cgs who sign a pt and then the pt never hears fom them again?  Why?  Cg wanted grow rights to sell to a dispensary.  Simple as that.  A cg can sign 5 pts and promise them all a free oz/month.  Then just ignore the pt.  Sell that oz to the dispensary and make how much per month doing that?  Why give a pt an oz when you can easily get another with the promise of free mj?  Somehow you think your system is sustainable. 

my system? i dont have a system. i already told you i went to a disp ONE time and bought a vap and a 20 dollar gram of strawberry tai . i have never not once sold so much as a gram of trim to a disp. maybe you could back that up with a nice cut and paste? lol

[pic book]

Boo hoo hoo.  Nearly everyone who is so poor---nearly everyone--is collecting the reward for foolish acting earler in life.

 

Foolishness is a right but 420 is not.  Poor decisions are a right; weed as meds is not. 

 

From the poor marriage choice to habitz that cost every day to having the wife sit at home not working cause you didn't want your wife to work.  From gambing to lottery tickets to drinking to smoking cigs to huge $ wedding rings to scrapes with DUI and court to spending $20k on a wedding, to driving your net worth, to financing a $10k funeral when with planning it does not cost a nickel (see Med Cure in Oregon).  The foolishness goes on and on and paying the price of accretted stupid decisions does too.  Nearly everyone poor is collecting the reward for earlier dissipation.  The above does not apply to the exceptions, hello--does not apply to the few people whom lightning struck (which is roughly equal to the number who win the lottery--the bell curve cannot be fooled).

Edited March 28, 2013 by pic book

[CaveatLector]

Boo hoo hoo.  Nearly everyone who is so poor---nearly everyone--is collecting the reward for foolish acting earler in life.

 

Foolishness is a right but 420 is not.  Poor decisions are a right; weed as meds is not. 

 

From the poor marriage choice to habitz that cost every day to having the wife sit at home not working cause you didn't want your wife to work.  From gambing to lottery tickets to drinking to smoking cigs to huge $ wedding rings to scrapes with DUI and court to spending $20k on a wedding, to driving your net worth, to financing a $10k funeral when with planning it does not cost a nickel (see Med Cure in Oregon).  The foolishness goes on and on and paying the price of accretted stupid decisions does too.  Nearly everyone poor is collecting the reward for earlier dissipation.  The above does not apply to the exceptions, hello--does not apply to the few people whom lightning struck (which is roughly equal to the number who win the lottery--the bell curve cannot be fooled).

WHAT?  You have some nerve to call some people out!  That's all supposed to be the big American secret!

[GregS]

Boo hoo hoo.  Nearly everyone who is so poor---nearly everyone--is collecting the reward for foolish acting earler in life.

 

Foolishness is a right but 420 is not.  Poor decisions are a right; weed as meds is not. 

 

From the poor marriage choice to habitz that cost every day to having the wife sit at home not working cause you didn't want your wife to work.  From gambing to lottery tickets to drinking to smoking cigs to huge $ wedding rings to scrapes with DUI and court to spending $20k on a wedding, to driving your net worth, to financing a $10k funeral when with planning it does not cost a nickel (see Med Cure in Oregon).  The foolishness goes on and on and paying the price of accretted stupid decisions does too.  Nearly everyone poor is collecting the reward for earlier dissipation.  The above does not apply to the exceptions, hello--does not apply to the few people whom lightning struck (which is roughly equal to the number who win the lottery--the bell curve cannot be fooled).

C'est la vis, all of which is suffering, said the comedian.

 

But for the Beatitudes, I might agree.

[michaelscott]

Boo hoo hoo. Nearly everyone who is so poor---nearly everyone--is collecting the reward for foolish acting earler in life.

 

Foolishness is a right but 420 is not. Poor decisions are a right; weed as meds is not.

 

From the poor marriage choice to habitz that cost every day to having the wife sit at home not working cause you didn't want your wife to work. From gambing to lottery tickets to drinking to smoking cigs to huge $ wedding rings to scrapes with DUI and court to spending $20k on a wedding, to driving your net worth, to financing a $10k funeral when with planning it does not cost a nickel (see Med Cure in Oregon). The foolishness goes on and on and paying the price of accretted stupid decisions does too. Nearly everyone poor is collecting the reward for earlier dissipation. The above does not apply to the exceptions, hello--does not apply to the few people whom lightning struck (which is roughly equal to the number who win the lottery--the bell curve cannot be fooled).

Always nice to get a peek at someones soul. Why do people gamble, drink, play the lottery? Are they prone to making bad decisions or are they part of a rigged game that leads to a sense of hopelessness. Should someone working 40 hours a week be able to support themselves and maybe even a family? Is anyones time really only worth 7 an hour? Do you think some folks time is really worth 1000's an hour?

 

Upward mobility is for the most part an illusion, except for a few exceptions, leaving most to die in the same class they were born into.

[SFC]

That BS Mike.  It ain't easy climbing out but it can be done. There are people that rightfully deserve our help, hell even lots of them, but there is a ton more that just refuse to get off their backs and make it happen.  It seems that is now also the "other" American way.  Sad.. And GD, you aren't fooling anyone, you may not have been to the dispensary, but how many farmers markets have you offed overages to?

[michaelscott]

That BS Mike. It ain't easy climbing out but it can be done. There are people that rightfully deserve our help, hell even lots of them, but there is a ton more that just refuse to get off their backs and make it happen. It seems that is now also the "other" American way. Sad.. And GD, you aren't fooling anyone, you may not have been to the dispensary, but how many farmers markets have you offed overages to?

I qualified it with "exceptions". The fact is you can work full time and still need public assistance to survive. That is not the America I was taught about in school. The rungs on the ladder of opportunity are very slippery these days and to profess that poor people are only poor from bad decision making skills is laughable. I will concede that you have a much better chance of moving up from the poor class then you do moving down from the rich class. What happens to the silver spoons that make bad decisions, they certainly aren't thrust into the poor class.

[SFC]

I hear ya man, but there was never any guarantee's the American dream would be easy. It is hard, and the higher your aspirations the harder it will be. But we have a generation of people already rolling over before they ever start. It is Sad.

[GanjaWarrior]

That BS Mike.  It ain't easy climbing out but it can be done. There are people that rightfully deserve our help, hell even lots of them, but there is a ton more that just refuse to get off their backs and make it happen.  It seems that is now also the "other" American way.  Sad.. And GD, you aren't fooling anyone, you may not have been to the dispensary, but how many farmers markets have you offed overages to?

Randy, that's bs and you know it is....I could spend all day pointing out examples of sick people  just not able to climb out on their own , but you don't care. I myself would rather lend a hand.

 

Randy i get what your trying to insinuate, but im not a pro grower, or maybe my pts and myself consume a lot? Probably a bit of both. i have on occasion taken a sample to share with a pt at the market . but ive never had a table or anything like that at any farmers market ive been to.