Board Of State Canvassers Meeting June 11, 2015

[t-pain]

STATE OF MICHIGAN

RUTH JOHNSON, SECRETARY OF STATE

DEPARTMENT OF STATE

LANSING

- - NOTICE --YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT THE BOARD OF STATE CANVASSERS WILL

CONDUCT A MEETING ON JUNE 11,2015 AT 10:00 A.M. IN ROOM 428 OF THE STATE

CAPITOL BUILDING, LANSING, MICHIGAN.

 

Included on the Agenda will be:

Consideration of meeting minutes for approval.

 

- Consideration of initiative petition form submitted for approval by the Michigan Cannabis Coalition, 31 North Saginaw Street, Pontiac, Michigan 48342.

 

- Consideration of initiative petition form submitted for approval by the Michigan Comprehensive Cannabis Law Reform Committee, P.O. Box 1358, East Lansing, Michigan 48826.

 

Such other and further business as may be properly presented to the Board.

[suneday11]

Should we goes to this? Is there a way to crush the mcc proposal?

[t-pain]

MCC and MILegalize submitting language tomorrow.

 

let the throw down commence!

 

oh, its not a fight? just a boring meeting? blah.

 

bonus points to anyone who goes there and asks the board to rule against MCC calling themselves "legalization" when their petition still says marijuana shall be unlawful. (at least , according to the old language they provided the public with, it could be changed by now...)

 

still says legalize on their website, http://www.micannabis.vote/the-cause.html

unless theres someone out there who thinks marijuana can both be "unlawful" and legal at the same time.

[t-pain]

168.476 (2) The board of state canvassers may hold hearings upon any complaints filed or for any purpose considered necessary by the board to conduct investigations of the petitions. To conduct a hearing, the board may issue subpoenas and administer oaths. The board may also adjourn from time to time awaiting receipt of returns from investigations that are being made or for other necessary purposes, but shall complete the canvass at least 2 months before the election at which the proposal is to be submitted.

 

i like this one too

 

168.485 Questions submitted to electors; form.

 

 

Sec. 485.

 

A question submitted to the electors of this state or the electors of a subdivision of this state shall, to the extent that it will not confuse the electorate, be worded so that a “yes” vote will be a vote in favor of the subject matter of the proposal or issue and a “no” vote will be a vote against the subject matter of the proposal or issue. The question shall be worded so as to apprise the voters of the subject matter of the proposal or issue, but need not be legally precise. The question shall be clearly written using words that have a common everyday meaning to the general public. The language used shall not create prejudice for or against the issue or proposal.

 

does the word unlawful create prejudice for or against the issue of marijuana?

[t-pain]

i'm not raising legal questions of their language, only prejudice and false advertising questions.

 

if marijuana is unlawful in their language, they cannot use the word legalization in their advertisements or signature gatherers.

 

(note that i'm not for or against either of these petitions and that i will probably collect signatures for both mcc and milegalize)

[+Malamute]

MILEGAILZE is also not actually "legalizing' marijuana.

[t-pain]

MILEGAILZE is also not actually "legalizing' marijuana.

"A bill to legalize and regulate marihuana and hemp cultivation" is on milegalize petition at least the draft

[+Malamute]

Will people still go to jail for marijuana?

[t-pain]

i sure hope not.

 

the only jail time listed in the milegalize petition is 60 days for giving marijuana to someone under 18 (who does not have a drs rec). or on school grounds misdemeanor for 120 days - 180 days subsequent offenses.

 

which are similar punishments to giving alcohol to a minor.

[+Malamute]

But what about the rest of the marijuana laws that already exist in the state?

 

Will people still be charged under those if they fall outside of the narrow allowances in the MILEGALIZE proposal?

 

;-p

[t-pain]

i sure hope not.

[+Malamute]

Hmm, those penalties and civil fines only apply to "marihuana establishments".

 

If you are caught selling to a friend, you will still fall under the criminal code?

 

Or growing too many plants?  Still a felony?  The act only protects if you are in compliance?

[+Malamute]

Speaking of, why would they write in that section for civil/criminalpenalties under rules for 'marihuana establishments" anyway?

 

 Real bright drafters there...

[t-pain]

the mmma has similar things, like putting doctors and regular non-patient people protections in sec4.

[t-pain]

i find it annoying that hemp is still seperated.

 

i know the thcf guys want to try breeding other plants to make better hemp products. e.g. breeding plants to produce more seeds for oil or breeding higher thc plants for better fiber/fuel whatnot. having a limit of thc limits the ability of the breeders to experiment and advance the field.

[trichcycler]

Speaking of, why would they write in that section for civil/criminalpenalties under rules for 'marihuana establishments" anyway?

 

 Real bright drafters there...

similar to the mention of traveling out of state patients/people acquiring provisions(somehow) ?

[+Malamute]

Well, not really.

 

 Because of the way they start Sec. 12 with an independent overriding title clause and then subsection the rest under that one free floating originating section clause; that is what causes the problem and say it only deals with "marijuana establishments".  Besides the form being off because that section follows different rules of construction when writing a law.

 

Such as... Since mentioned,... Sec. 4 of the MMAct has this:

333.26424 Qualifying patient or primary caregiver; arrest, prosecution, or penalty prohibited; conditions; privilege from arrests; presumption; compensation; physician subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty prohibited; marihuana paraphernalia; person in presence or vicinity of medical use of marihuana; registry identification issued outside of department; sale of marihuana as felony; penalty.

 

4. Protections for the Medical Use of Marihuana.

 

 

 

The "sale of marihuana" subsection should actually be in Sec. 7 of the MMMAct.   This is a simple construction problem.  This is why you hear many judges and legally minded and understanding peoples rip on the Act as being written "poorly".  Because it honestly was.  Now,... most of the complaints have no substance and it is written fine enough and most are just piggybacking something negative to say about the MMMAct;  but yes,.. construction is an issue and Sec. 12 of the MILEGALIZE is just one example of a poorly written section.

 

I mean, I support it, I will vote for it,... but it is still sad to see poorly written laws by our community.

[+Malamute]

I hope both make the ballot btw. :-)

 

Both are better than that MRC model for 10 grows and repeal of MMMAct.

 

 Someone needs to string those MRC guys up by the balls(figuratively,....maybe)

[t-pain]

you know it as well as anyone that the actual michigan compiled laws as written by our legislature are full of baloney and mistakes everywhere though, so its not like theres a high bar to pass.

 

it doesnt help that the laws are byzantine mess of crap. there is no perfect law, no perfect language. the "sloppyness" of the mmma does not stop it from being effective.

[+Malamute]

Exactly.

 

Plus, every so often, they change the rules for the format of writing laws.  They slowly get laws updated with new forms, pronouns, verbs  etc based on what is the new "acceptable."

 

But avoiding really apparent structure issues should be avoided.  :-)

[bobandtorey]

the mmma has similar things, like putting doctors and regular non-patient people protections in sec4.

Thanks 

 

Do you mean Posted Note's ?

[bobandtorey]

Exactly.

 

Plus, every so often, they change the rules for the format of writing laws.  They slowly get laws updated with new forms, pronouns, verbs  etc based on what is the new "acceptable."

 

But avoiding really apparent structure issues should be avoided.  :-)

Like the word The or the letter A ?

[beourbud]

http://www.toledonewsnow.com/story/29293089/marijuana-legalization-measures-go-before-michigan-board

 

Legalization is a Lie if We are still Arrested and Prosecuted/Persecuted,  No?

 

We Need schools not prisons.

 

Decriminalize,  FREE the WEED

Edited June 11, 2015 by beourbud

[bobandtorey]

The MILegalize petitions were approved today!

We will commence printing and training. 

There are several town hall discussions scheduled all around the state in the next couple weeks as well- where training and further information on the language will be discussed.

The official launch of the MILegalize campaign will take place on the steps of the Capitol in Lansing, MI on Thursday June 25th at 1:00!

[t-pain]

do you think it will protect people if it passes, bob?