Out Side Grow!

[phaquetoo]

below is from a minorml email i recieve on a daily basis!

It is my opinion if you have a fenced in (chain link with chain link top or barb wire at top of fence) Locked! It is an enclosed legal grow room, Im sure one of those lil green houses that lock also would be good! Prisons have yards with fences and barb wire that they consider secure!

 

I know I get way more yeild from an out door grow than i do an indoor grow!

 

I am also not saying that the hill bill grow with chicken mesh and a lock was legal! I was just messin around, I have no neighbors , just a couple teenage kids that couldnt resist messin with it once it started budding! (needless to say they picked it to young and it was no good and the plants they left in were dying because the roots were interconnected) so i just pulled the rest out and figured if im not going to get any of it they are not going to either,,they will never find a roach in my house, Im pissed they stole from me!

 

any how I believe we can grow outdoors in a locked profesional looking enclosure, totaly absorbing the sun!

 

Most folks can grow a veg garden, and get produce, when it comes to mm, I think most are intimated! and dont think they can grow it!

Im telling those of you who think you cant grow to put some seeds in the ground next spring in a legal manner, and have fun, its awsome to grow mm, if you like roses or tomatoes you will love mm! Go for it!

 

Peace

FTW

Jim

 

"Below is from minorml email"

 

 

Hello everyone,

 

Since there have been a couple reports on the list about arrests of individuals growing in their back yard and some discussion of the matter, I wanted to weigh in and point out the requirements in the law. Please remember that, as always, MPP can't provide legal advice, and you should consult with a Michigan attorney if you have legal questions. In order to be protected from arrest, section 4(a) requires the plants to be "kept in an enclosed, locked facility." (emphasis added) Separately, that term is defined as "a closet, room, or other enclosed area equipped with locks or other security devices that permit access only by a registered primary caregiver or registered qualifying patient." (emphais added)

 

The use of the term "enclosed" makes it highly unlikely that anyone with an outdoor grow would be protected from arrest. In order to have a legal outdoor grow, the space would need to be fenced in on all sides, locked (or otherwise secured), and almost surely equipped with a roof or top. At a minimum it would need to inaccessible to anyone able to hop a fence, though to be safe it would probably need to be in a shed or some other enclosed and locked (or otherwise secured) facility. At any rate, the safest way to make sure one is not subject to complaints from neighbors or investigation from law enforcement is to grow the plants in an area not visible to anyone but the homeowner and where the smell of the plants wouldn't easily carry beyond the home. Thus, the best bet is a basement or closet inside the home. If the marijuana must be grown outside the home, such as in a back yard, one should use an enclosed (equipped with a roof), securely locked facility such as a shed that !

is opaque and not visible to outsiders (i.e. not a chain-linked fence).

 

Please also remember that a grow operation that doesn't meet the legal requirements will not only subject the owner to possible arrest and conviction, but the negative publicity that follows (such as this story with pictures of large, visible grows) reflects poorly on patients and the law. This is particularly noteworthy in light of the recent Court of Appeals concurrence and other attempts to undermine support for the law.

Again, please remember that MPP cannot provide legal advice, and this should not be interpreted as such. Please consult a Michigan attorney if you have legal questions.

 

Sincerely,

 

Dan Riffle, Legislative Analyst

Marijuana Policy Project

236 Massachusetts Ave., NE, Suite 400

Washington, DC 20002

P: 202-462-5747, ext. *2026,

F: 202-552-0980

driffle@mpp.org, http://www.mpp.org

 

Please visit http://www.mpp.org/subscribe to sign up for MPP's free e-mail alerts.

 

"Marijuana, in its natural form, is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man." - Drug Enforcement Agency, Administrative Law Judge Francis L. Young (1988).

 

On Sep 28, 2010, at 3:08 AM, Adam Brook wrote:

 

> Paul,

>

> While I am not a lawyer, I feel that what you have pointed out, a locked facility out of public view, is what the law requires.

> I used to work for a company that had drive in porno theaters. In INDIANA, a we bit more conservative that Michigan, and we had light fields that would -prevent people from seeing what was right in front of them.(edit by jim, houghton lake had a xxx drive in on m55 where the maple valley trust company is, in the late 70's early 80's)

>

> Currently I have my own court battles to fight so I don't have the time, let alone the funds, but what we desperately need is some precedent setting cases.......starting with outdoor growing.......

> I would bet that if someone was willing to be the defendant in a case, we could do enough fundraising to pay the legal bill and possibly get some presidents set?

>

> just an idea at 3am

>

> Adam L. Brook

>

> Production Manager

> International Cannabis Convention 2010

> Halloween Harmony & Harvest Fest

> The Pontiac Silverdome

> October 29th-31st

>

>

>> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 19:51:48 -0700

>> From: ruok.rorak@gmail.com

>> To: minorml-talk@norml.net

>> Subject: MINORML-TALK: The Law Says Nothing About Not Growing Outdoors!!!

>>

>> There's nothing in the law saying you cant grow outdoors, It says a secure

>> location. I know a person that was growing outdoors with an 8 foot chain

>> link fence with *no* top and a padlock on the door. Local and state police

>> went to his house because the plants were seen from a state police

>> helicopter (they have been flying all over the state trying to find grow

>> opps). They searched his house and property then after verifying his

>> paperwork they left and haven't returned.

>> I would suggest to anyone that wants to grow outdoors that in addition to a

>> fence they make sure it can't be seen by the public (this includes

>> neighbors), and if you really don't want any legal problems ask your local

>> authorities what there interpretation of the law is.

>> In some areas the local authorities are trying to put words in the law that

>> aren't there, anyone that says growing outdoors is illegal for a registered

>> patient is just *helping them*!

>>

>> Paul

[Indicat]

considering:

 

1. we are only allowed to have 2.5 oz dried at a time - so everybody's fantasies about a massive harvest seem to be pretty moot considering you would have to destroy everything except 2.5 oz in the end.

 

2. the law states "locked facility" implying that the assumption is most people will be doing this indoors. with that in mind - to meet the "locked facility" requirement, if you were growing outdoors it would probably have to be in some kind of greenhouse with a lock on the door to be completely legal.

 

my 2 cents.

[G3LLO]

considering:

 

1. we are only allowed to have 2.5 oz dried at a time - so everybody's fantasies about a massive harvest seem to be pretty moot considering you would have to destroy everything except 2.5 oz in the end.

 

2. the law states "locked facility" implying that the assumption is most people will be doing this indoors. with that in mind - to meet the "locked facility" requirement, if you were growing outdoors it would probably have to be in some kind of greenhouse with a lock on the door to be completely legal.

 

my 2 cents.

 

Well 2.5 oz if you only have one patient, 15 oz if you are full. Don't pick it all at one time problem solved

 

But its winter so you have a whole 7-8 months to get it figured out!

[phaquetoo]

considering:

 

1. we are only allowed to have 2.5 oz dried at a time - so everybody's fantasies about a massive harvest seem to be pretty moot considering you would have to destroy everything except 2.5 oz in the end.

 

2. the law states "locked facility" implying that the assumption is most people will be doing this indoors. with that in mind - to meet the "locked facility" requirement, if you were growing outdoors it would probably have to be in some kind of greenhouse with a lock on the door to be completely legal.

 

my 2 cents.

 

 

every one should put in there 2 cents. maybe i can get enough for some new lites! lol

Destroy overages? I think not, mason jars and a nice deep hole, in a very discrete place, not in your yard,,there are no overages! plus the clippings and stems dont count as weight, and we all know what to do with them!

 

Peace

FTW

Jim

[HerbanLegendSeeds]

I talked to two MSP officers about this subject a few months ago and they stated it was their opinion that we are allowed to have a constant uninterrupted supply which could be interpreted in many ways, if we were to grow outside we could provide meds for ourselves for the entire year if it was logged what our monthly usage is and everything is properly labeled. Something like this should be addressed the next time they open this law up for amendments.

[bobandtorey]

every one should put in there 2 cents. maybe i can get enough for some new lites! lol

Destroy overages? I think not, mason jars and a nice deep hole, in a very discrete place, not in your yard,,there are no overages! plus the clippings and stems dont count as weight, and we all know what to do with them!

 

Peace

FTW

Jim

 

clippings and stems dont count as weight??

 

are you sure of this?

 

clippings i think count

 

stems no

[Guest Mr_smith]

I think its "any incidental amount of seeds, stalks, roots etc..

[T1420]

Yeah, its the 2.5 that throws any actual amount of medicine harvested at once that bothers me.. uninterupted supply... thats over a pound a month in my mind. I harvest 5-6 oz a week. if I were to try to store it I'd never sleep.

[phaquetoo]

clippings and stems dont count as weight??

 

are you sure of this?

 

clippings i think count

 

stems no

 

Here is a copy of the law! and that is how i take it

 

This is form mcl 333.3642

Sec.4. Protections for the medical use of marihuana.

(a) A qalifying patient who has been issued and possesses a registry idetification card shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege. not be suject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, for the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act. provided that the qualifying patient possesses an amount of marihuana that does not exceed 2.5 ounces of usable marihuana and if the qualifying pateint has not specified that a primary caregiver will be allowed under state law to cultivate marihauana for the qualifying patient, 12 marihuana plants kept in an enclosed, locked facility any incidental amount of seeds, stalks, and unusable roots shall also be allowed under state law and shall not be included in this amount.

(what is the dif between stalks and clippings?)

Peace

FTW

Jim

[Rileymae]

[/b](what is the dif between stalks and clippings?)

Peace

FTW

Jim

 

Good question... My take on this, is that clippings are leaves, stalks are the main branch(es)...? Hope someone else can clarify!

[+RevThad]

Stalks would be sans leaves, aka just the stems. A clipping (unless done strictly for some sort of pruning preference) would have leaves and be meant for an attempt to sprout roots...

 

Just my opinion.

[Rileymae]

Stalks would be sans leaves, aka just the stems. A clipping (unless done strictly for some sort of pruning preference) would have leaves and be meant for an attempt to sprout roots...

 

Just my opinion.

Whew! Guess I'm doing it right!!!

[phaquetoo]

well now when we are clipping off our shade leaves does that count as weight? I say No. and anytime we clipp of a section or branch it is incidental, when we clip for clones, they are just clippings until they get roots! so if you are going to share clones. clip them the day you are going to transfer them to a friend, no roots and you can possess them, now getting rid of them should be a covert operation, the only way to obey this law is to use your common sense!

 

Peace

FTW

Jim

[Indicat]

every one should put in there 2 cents. maybe i can get enough for some new lites! lol

Destroy overages? I think not, mason jars and a nice deep hole, in a very discrete place, not in your yard,,there are no overages! plus the clippings and stems dont count as weight, and we all know what to do with them!

 

Peace

FTW

Jim

 

 

hiding your overages in mason jars buried on someone else's property or state land is still breaking the law. we are lucky enough to be able to do this in the first place. any "overages" should/could be made into a. hash, or b. edible products - to get your total weight of "usable medicine" withing the legal limits.

[Kingdiamond]

At one of the recent raids this summer they counted a pound and a half of clippings in his overall weight and charged him for being over his limit because of it i use to accept waste to make bho and give it away freely but ever since that guy was charged i destroy all my waste or dump it offsite .

[bobandtorey]

i would say it is SAD that the sick has to live like this

[1337Gr33n]

I have a nice compost pile for my outdoor veggie/herb garden that is starting up next year. i'm just gonna grind all my post-recycled soil and other pieces parts in there with some coffee grounds, banana peels, and what-not.

[herb green]

I think if you have a badass backyard with a killer fence and zero visablity...and youre not really near other houses....sure or find a strain that doesnt stink too bad....

 

But these dog kennels are kind of a joke

 

Anyone with a pair of pliers can get in there...its sort of enclosed

 

Enclosed might mean closed...like no holes enclosed ...It may end up enclosed doesnt include a chain link fence ...you may need to have a solid wall...such as a closet to meet the enclosed definition

 

But then again greenhouse is clear but is it enclosed?

 

Yes

 

Its lockable and solid and they are often plexiglass

 

So +1 for greenhouse

 

zero for dogkennel...maybe -1

 

I wouldnt keep a dog in a dog kennel myself...but that's just me

 

I dont know how much I want to support the dog kennel industry

 

Annnny how

 

Yeah...get a kick-donkey backyard and throw up a green house

 

Do it!

 

Sounds AWESOME!!!!!!!!! greenhouse effect!

[herb green]

51 Moby Thesaurus words for "enclosed": barred, beleaguered, beset, besieged, blockaded, bound, cabined, caged, cloistered, closed-in, compassed, confined, cooped, cordoned, cordoned off, corralled, cramped, cribbed, detained, encompassed, enfolded, enveloped, environed, fenced, hedged, hemmed, immured, impounded, imprisoned, in confinement, incarcerated, jailed, kept in, lapped, leaguered, mewed, paled, penned, pent, pent-up, quarantined, railed, restrained, restricted, shut-in, surrounded, under restraint, walled, walled-in, wrapped, wreathed

 

enclosed adj : closed in or surrounded or included within; "an enclosed porch"; "an enclosed yard"; "the enclosed check is to cover shipping and handling

 

enclosed \enclosed\ adj. surrounded or closed in, usually on all sides.

 

The problem is...the law is the context and we have a sub-text that says"like a closet" or something along those lines...it suggests ....well I dont know what it suggests...but hopefully the courts will consider it enclosed whatever it is ...backyard....dog kennel....front porch

 

Personally if its visable at all youre asking for trouble of one kind or another

 

Same goes for smell....that is a legit nucianse and danger to yourself unless you live in the serious sticks

[bobandtorey]

Kingpins C,O,A is coming up next month we should all know then

[herb green]

Kingpins C,O,A is coming up next month we should all know then

 

I thought he beat it....

 

...but they wouldnt return his stuff

 

Well....yeah....that would be it then

 

He even had a card...under on weight I thought...just outside

 

or visable outside in the front right?

 

Anyway...these things take years!

[smokeythebear]

a guy in schoolcraft county (UP) just won a case where he was outside but they said it wasn't locked. he had elec. wire around it and other things. not to sure on the details of the case. the judge did order all marijuana returned.

 

i have a copy of the court records but was too big to attach the file, anyone know how i can email it and have yous post it?

[phaquetoo]

51 Moby Thesaurus words for "enclosed": barred, beleaguered, beset, besieged, blockaded, bound, cabined, caged, cloistered, closed-in, compassed, confined, cooped, cordoned, cordoned off, corralled, cramped, cribbed, detained, encompassed, enfolded, enveloped, environed, fenced, hedged, hemmed, immured, impounded, imprisoned, in confinement, incarcerated, jailed, kept in, lapped, leaguered, mewed, paled, penned, pent, pent-up, quarantined, railed, restrained, restricted, shut-in, surrounded, under restraint, walled, walled-in, wrapped, wreathed

 

enclosed adj : closed in or surrounded or included within; "an enclosed porch"; "an enclosed yard"; "the enclosed check is to cover shipping and handling

 

enclosed \enclosed\ adj. surrounded or closed in, usually on all sides.

 

The problem is...the law is the context and we have a sub-text that says"like a closet" or something along those lines...it suggests ....well I dont know what it suggests...but hopefully the courts will consider it enclosed whatever it is ...backyard....dog kennel....front porch

 

Personally if its visable at all youre asking for trouble of one kind or another

 

Same goes for smell....that is a legit nucianse and danger to yourself unless you live in the serious sticks

 

 

H.G the judge and D.A can use all of those terms for enclosed, but so can your attny!

Thanks for the post!

 

Peace

FTW

Jim

[phaquetoo]

51 Moby Thesaurus words for "enclosed": barred, beleaguered, beset, besieged, blockaded, bound, cabined, caged, cloistered, closed-in, compassed, confined, cooped, cordoned, cordoned off, corralled, cramped, cribbed, detained, encompassed, enfolded, enveloped, environed, fenced, hedged, hemmed, immured, impounded, imprisoned, in confinement, incarcerated, jailed, kept in, lapped, leaguered, mewed, paled, penned, pent, pent-up, quarantined, railed, restrained, restricted, shut-in, surrounded, under restraint, walled, walled-in, wrapped, wreathed

 

enclosed adj : closed in or surrounded or included within; "an enclosed porch"; "an enclosed yard"; "the enclosed check is to cover shipping and handling

 

enclosed \enclosed\ adj. surrounded or closed in, usually on all sides.

 

The problem is...the law is the context and we have a sub-text that says"like a closet" or something along those lines...it suggests ....well I dont know what it suggests...but hopefully the courts will consider it enclosed whatever it is ...backyard....dog kennel....front porch

 

Personally if its visable at all youre asking for trouble of one kind or another

 

Same goes for smell....that is a legit nucianse and danger to yourself unless you live in the serious sticks

 

Ok Herb check this article out! I think im gonna get a job at the detroit zoo next spring to early fall, lol

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100918/od_afp/austriacrimedrugsoffbeat_20100918212141

 

Peace

FTW

Jim

[Otsego County Caregiver]

hiding your overages in mason jars buried on someone else's property or state land is still breaking the law. we are lucky enough to be able to do this in the first place. any "overages" should/could be made into a. hash, or b. edible products - to get your total weight of "usable medicine" withing the legal limits.

 

I don't think that's entirely correct. State land is definitely illegal. Storing it on a caregiver's property isn't illegal according to the law, though.

 

See the bolded section:

 

Sec. 8. (a) Except as provided in section 7, a patient and a patient's primary caregiver, if any, may assert the medical purpose for using marihuana as a defense to any prosecution involving marihuana, and this defense shall be presumed valid where the evidence shows that:

 

(1) A physician has stated that, in the physician's professional opinion, after having completed a full assessment of the patient's medical history and current medical condition made in the course of a bona fide physician-patient relationship, the patient is likely to receive therapeutic or palliative benefit from the medical use of marihuana to treat or alleviate the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition or symptoms of the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition;

 

(2) The patient and the patient's primary caregiver, if any, were collectively in possession of a quantity of marihuana that was not more than was reasonably necessary to ensure the uninterrupted availability of marihuana for the purpose of treating or alleviating the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition or symptoms of the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition; and

 

(3) The patient and the patient's primary caregiver, if any, were engaged in the acquisition, possession, cultivation, manufacture, use, delivery, transfer, or transportation of marihuana or paraphernalia relating to the use of marihuana to treat or alleviate the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition or symptoms of the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition.

 

(b) A person may assert the medical purpose for using marihuana in a motion to dismiss, and the charges shall be dismissed following an evidentiary hearing where the person shows the elements listed in subsection (a).

 

© If a patient or a patient's primary caregiver demonstrates the patient's medical purpose for using marihuana pursuant to this section, the patient and the patient's primary caregiver shall not be subject to the following for the patient's medical use of marihuana:

 

(1) disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau; or

 

(2) forfeiture of any interest in or right to property.

 

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%28lw15nu554ouxbmf0enm2bm55%29%29/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-333-26428