Medical Pot Users Denied Care?

[Michael Komorn]

Medical pot users denied care?

 

 

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110731/A_NEWS/107310326/-1/a_news07

 

 

More patients claim hospital in Lode pressured them to sign form

 

 

This is an article that evidences Dr. Townsend’s article in the Lansing Journal. Making the point that Dr’s, traditionally are not providing care for medical marijuana patients

 

 

 

July 31, 2011

 

Medical pot users denied care?

 

More patients claim hospital in Lode pressured them to sign form

 

 

By Dana M. Nichols

 

Record Staff Writer

 

July 31, 2011 12:00 AM

 

SAN ANDREAS - Additional medical-marijuana patients have come forward to say they were told they were unwelcome at clinics operated by Mark Twain St. Joseph's Hospital.

 

New allegations surfaced after hospital officials in early July said they have no policy barring medical-marijuana patients from receiving care and that, in fact, some Mark Twain physicians have even written recommendations for patients to use medical marijuana.

 

Sam Slayter, a disabled veteran living near Valley Springs, was the first to go public with his account. Slayter said he had been told by Dr. Rafael Rosado that he couldn't receive care at a Mark Twain clinic in Valley Springs unless he promised to discontinue his use of medical marijuana.

 

At the time, hospital President Feliciano Jiron and Dr. Sean Anderson, the hospital's vice president of medical affairs, suggested that Slayter may have misunderstood Rosado.

 

Since then, other patients have reported similar experiences, saying they were asked to sign forms promising not to use medical marijuana and were told not just by Rosado but also by front-office staff that Mark Twain doctors were no longer allowed to write medical-marijuana recommendations.

 

"When I called in, I was in pain. I told them I was in pain. I was trying to get a hold of my own doctor," said David Jack, 68, who suffers from a congenital brain tumor.

 

Rather than scheduling him an appointment with his long-time physician, Dr. Paul Jacobson, Jack said the clinic receptionist told him he would not be allowed to see a doctor unless he signed a form promising not to use medical marijuana.

 

Jack said he then called a higher-ranking administrator, and she said the same thing.

 

"She went into an absolute rant about how Dr. Jacobson should not have ever given me a recommendation for cannabis," Jack said.

 

Neither Rosado nor hospital administrators nor Jacobson responded to requests for comment. In an earlier email, Rosado said the form is something recommended by the American Academy of Pain Medicine in cases where patients require potentially addictive narcotics.

 

"The true issue here is that we have a huge problem with patients who take prescribed pain medicines while also abusing illegal substances," Rosado wrote. "We would never turn anyone away for choosing to use marijuana as long as they are not being treated with a prescribed controlled substance or the use of the marijuana affects the care they receive at the clinic."

 

The form also states that the patients agree to random drug testing and understand they can be discharged from care if they test positive.

 

Rosado oversees care for all of Mark Twain's family medical clinics. Accounts by patients suggest that he and physicians in the clinics are in conflict over medical marijuana.

 

Both Jack and Paula Stevens, 45, who suffers back pain due to scoliosis and degenerative disc disease, said that other doctors apologized to them later after each initially had a run-in with Rosado over medical marijuana.

 

Stevens said that upon learning that Rosado had pressured her into signing the form and had withdrawn her pain medication, Dr. Rodger Orman told her "that's completely wrong. I don't want you to go back there. And I want you to complain to the board. That is not right."

 

Thomas Liberty is an activist with Collective Patient Resources, an organization that advocates for medical-marijuana patients in Calaveras County.

 

He said he's been contacted this month by seven medical-marijuana patients who said they've been pressured by staff at Mark Twain St. Joseph's clinics to sign a form promising not to use medical marijuana. Liberty said 17 people showed up at a meeting he organized to discuss how to respond to the hospital's policy.

 

"Nobody can understand why a hospital would treat people like this," Liberty said.

 

 

Contact reporter Dana M. Nichols at (209) 607-1361 or dnichols@recordnet.com. Visit his blog at recordnet.com/calaverasblog.

 

 

Posted by:

 

Michael Komorn

 

18006563557

 

 

 

 

 

[solabeirtan]

Pretty sad when the politics of a class / political war are more important than your primary goal of health care .

 

Dr Rosado is in the wrong business , let's face it , Doctors like him give Medicine a bad name .

[purklize]

Those who need opiate pain drugs and also use med mj typically need LESS of the opiates. Med mj reduces the potential for abuse of painkillers! Rosado needs some serious and painkiller free surgery to remove his head from his butt.

[bobandtorey]

Gee i know about this all to well last summer Torey got ran over by a car on her bicycle on the corner of are street and when i got their she was laying inn the street and the first thing Leo did was to find her I.D and her Medical Marijuana card it was down hill from their they made her tinkle test at the hospital be for they even looked at her

[tutman2006]

Its all about the all mighty buck.

 

Big farma wants there money.

[Dr. Bob]

The best evidence Michael is that 14 of 15 Michigan doctors have not signed a single certification for MMJ based on the departments own statistics.

 

Why don't we come up with a letter that patients can send to and make their doctors sign for along the lines of

 

1. I am a medical marijuana patient and a card holder under the MMMA

2. My use of medical marijuana is a NOT a violation of my pain contract as it is not a recreational substance. It is akin to my using over the counter motrin in addition to any other pain you are prescribing me.

3. The Department of Justice has made it clear they have no interest in investigating or prosecuting medical patients that are following their state law, as I am. I respect my relationship with you as my doctor and I request you respect the position of the Department of Justice and the Michigan Medical Marijuana Act.

4. Please provide me with a written copy of your policy related to Medical Marijuana.

 

I am sure that something good and legal could be written up to give us some standing if we wish to take action with the medical board in the event patients are refused care or discharged from a practice due to their participation in the Medical Marijuana Act.

 

Let's take the offensive here to encourage primary care physicians to take part in the MMMA and PENALIZE those that do not. Right now too many practices are making it policy to punish medical marijuana patients, we need to turn the tide.

 

 

 

Dr. Bob

[peanutbutter]

I've heard that at least five patient in Michigan have committed suicide after being cut off cold turkey from their pain medicine by these clinics.

[peanutbutter]

the sad thing is that that number is probably on the low side when one considers "accidental overdoses" into it.

 

Like rolling up the last fentanal patch and eating it?

[peanutbutter]

St Joes, U of M .. the list goes on and on.

[peanutbutter]

Politics overrides health care ..

 

I see how it works.

[+Silverblue]

Such a cruel world. I like the letter Dr. bob came up with. We need to put the drs on notice about this and OUR RIGHTS. I'm so afraid of this happening to me, I know my dr is against it, i also know of one of her patients, who, thankfully, was not denied care because of it, which really surprised me. At least she has the decency not to let her personal views interfere with a person's right to treatment.

 

What happened to Torey is so cruel, too. No one cares that someone's hurting, all they care about is the possibility the person is a criminal, nevermind she has a card and is legally allowed to use MM. Compassion has been traded in for the almighty dollar that's really not mighty at all..

 

It doesn't surprise me to see there've been people who committed suicide after being cut off from their pain meds.

 

What a cruel, heartless, miserable world. I've surely had my share of it, since I was very young, too young to understand the cruelty I was being subjected to. My life hasn't been the same since that first of many traumas. And of course, guess who got blammed for being an unhappy child?

 

Sb

[Dr. Bob]

i guess my question is to you dr bob is if you were not doing recs nor affiliated with the mmj in any way and were just doing your regular practice how would you react to a patient bringing you this letter? also as a dr and prior to doing recs, were you ever been told or asked by a pharmaceutical rep to be anti mmj ? we here this all the time but a dr has never confirmed it is being done... or has one come forward? thanks for all you do doc.

 

Ask mayor herb if it is being done. I have personally had DOZENS of patient complain about this practice to me, and the state's own stats don't lie (only 2200 out of over 30,000 active physicians in this state have written a cert). Most doctors refuse to participate in the program, penalize patients for getting a card, cut them off or dismiss them if they test positive. As for my personal practice, no I don't discharge or cut off patients for marijuana. I do wean and dismiss patients for cocaine and other clear evidence of drug abuse, such as diverting narcotics. Marijuana has been pretty harmless in my book since becoming a doctor. I am actually shocked and appalled that my fellow doctors have reacted as they have. On the other hand, I have had many positive experiences with doctors who do not feel comfortable with MMJ or are forbidden to write the certs themselves, but tolerate and accept a patient using MMJ as an adjunctive treatment. An example of this are VA physicians.

 

As a side note, in N. Michigan, I would estimate that 90% plus of my experience with LEO has been very positive. I know of one incident that involved the state police actually carrying out pots of MMJ in the course of a house fire and guarding it for the caregiver to save the crop. I know of one outdoor grow that was discovered, inspected, approved and used as a training aid for aerial observers.

 

Look, this is not a subject for me to sputter off on, let some actual patients tell of their experience. That is the proof I need to bring to the hearings in September. It looks like I am going to be asked to explain this to the folks that are proposing the bills. A pretty good source has indicated I will be asked to testify. Give me some reports to cite other than my own.

[peanutbutter]

SB .. this is so sad to hear from someone like yourself.

 

There is a habit pattern within the medical profession.

 

If they can't fix it, they blame the patient.

 

Such a cruel world. I like the letter Dr. bob came up with. We need to put the drs on notice about this and OUR RIGHTS. I'm so afraid of this happening to me, I know my dr is against it, i also know of one of her patients, who, thankfully, was not denied care because of it, which really surprised me. At least she has the decency not to let her personal views interfere with a person's right to treatment.

 

What happened to Torey is so cruel, too. No one cares that someone's hurting, all they care about is the possibility the person is a criminal, nevermind she has a card and is legally allowed to use MM. Compassion has been traded in for the almighty dollar that's really not mighty at all..

 

It doesn't surprise me to see there've been people who committed suicide after being cut off from their pain meds.

 

What a cruel, heartless, miserable world. I've surely had my share of it, since I was very young, too young to understand the cruelty I was being subjected to. My life hasn't been the same since that first of many traumas. And of course, guess who got blammed for being an unhappy child?

 

Sb

[Dr. Bob]

I will make one thing clear. I have PERSONALLY contacted each of the 4 pain clinics in my area (Mt. Pleasant) and EVERY ONE of them will not accept or continue treating patients that is using MMJ, card or not. Either will any physician on staff at my local hospital. I have a message from one patient on my phone as we speak. I requested records under the name of my practice, Denali Health Care, in order to get her a card. Though I only requested a couple of office visits and her med/problem lists, they have informed her in no uncertain terms that I am now her treating physician, and if she requests records from them again she will be charged $75, even if the request comes from another primary care doctor.

 

As a side note, I've always made it my practice to NEVER charge a patient for faxed records or a CD. It is just part of the service I offer, even for a patient that decides to go elsewhere.

 

Dr. Bob

[Dr. Bob]

Here is something I would like folks to do.

 

Using a false name, contact 10 primary care clinics at random out of the phone book. Ask if they are accepting new patients (keep going until you have 10 that are). If they are, ask if they have a problem with you having a MMJ card.

 

Record the name/number of the clinic, who you talked to and the result and post in this threat. I will follow up and use it to prepare my report to the legislature. This is your chance to really make a difference and define the problems in terms they will understand. Get me the background and I'll make sure you are heard.

 

Dr. Bob

[Dr. Bob]

best of luck in september. i am not doubting anything dr bob, i to believe it was and continues to be done. i was just wondering if you had any personal experiences with it.

 

All is good my friend. Help me out and make some calls yourself. Then post the results.

 

Dr. Bob

[peanutbutter]

All is good my friend. Help me out and make some calls yourself. Then post the results.

 

Dr. Bob

 

Will do sir.

 

They open in the morning.

[Dr. Bob]

Well done gentlemen. Let's roll...

 

Dr. Bob

[Croppled1]

I've heard that at least five patient in Michigan have committed suicide after being cut off cold turkey from their pain medicine by these clinics.

 

 

This is why I beg people unfamiliar with the need for opiate therapy that feel cannabis is their ticket off for what wasn't necessary and is dangerous to consider there are people who are kept alive by it and benefit . We must protect all patients in our words and deeds . Cannabis is uniting a huge group of patients whose voice can be used for good ..

 

What this thread is saying is true . People who have never suffered severe intractable unsolvable even undiagnosable severe chronic pain have no idea and are lucky they don't . I was told the U of M Chronic Pain department which should be leading the way for our State in the implementation of the law directed Doctors not to write recommendations . Their pain contracts when I lost saw them prevented being on the program it is absolutely barbaric . They should be the leading research institution in our State documenting what is happening these first three years but discrimination precludes research and funding for it . Just like these Judges abusing patients by ignoring the act in discrimination that rivals the 1960's civil rights injustices ( yes people are dieing now and being jailed unjustly denied education and employment ) Hospital Administrators and Department heads are preventing change from occurring no matter how despicable the consequences are for patients .

 

Opiate Dependant patients have no protections and they are incapacitated if their medication is interrupted and can die or suffer so much they can't see life as worth living and it is ...it gets better .as well as one gets by with less . Michigan is one of the most backward states having expanded access under Granholm to opiate pain relief with no guarantee of continuance of care should a patients Doctor die or move or they move etc .It is unbelievable but they wont give you pain medicine in jail though some do give methadone or suboxone which I cannot tolerate . Once your dependent some people can never balance out again without maintenance . Some patients denied pain treatment end up on street drugs our policies are so wrong . . It is a nightmare that sadly many severe chronic pain patients back into through no fault of their own from painful surgery injury and or disease . We can do better by them . Dependence is not a crime nor a weakness . Nobody knows why some people have more trouble then others just like nobody understands why some die from a bee sting or eating peanuts and the rest of us have no problem . Our attitudes must change now that modern times have increased supply and use .

 

Cannabis used adjunctly often reduces the level of opiates or other more dangerous medication patients need and it also helps people titrate down from dependant ones . Nobody should ever be punished by withholding medication . Never . everyone should be entitled to long term titration's down with cannabis and it should be added to the list of approved use as a supplement to addiction medicine in our State .Cannabis use should be allowed in hospitals , nursing homes and patients should be able to have as many opportunities to use their medicine as anyone on any other substance . We have to stop discriminating against ourselves in what we conceptualize as reasonable and normal . Were not doing anything wrong but the converse is this can't be used for a excuse of not accomplishing all we can . Cannabis should not be the focus of our lives just a tool that improves them . I pray in my lifetime I will see younger patients with severe chronic illness and or disease obtain educational grants and scholarships denied now as well as employment opportunities they deserve on merit by their abilities without discrimination . Were the ones doing this for the Children . Nobody should be denied the medical benefit nor denied access to society for exercising that need .

[taby]

how bad is U-of-M?? I will be seeing my doc at the head and neuropathic pain clinic on Tuesday in hopes he will sign for me. I have been somewhat nervous about this. I don't get the issue with it. I have swallowed and injected just about every medicine they pushed my way. Why wouldn't a doctor really want to help? I get it's politics. Does anyone have info for pain clinic at U-of-m?

[peanutbutter]

This is why I beg people unfamiliar with the need for opiate therapy that feel cannabis is their ticket off for what wasn't necessary and is dangerous to consider there are people who are kept alive by it and benefit . We must protect all patients in our words and deeds . Cannabis is uniting a huge group of patients whose voice can be used for good ..

 

What this thread is saying is true . People who have never suffered severe intractable unsolvable even undiagnosable severe chronic pain have no idea and are lucky they don't . I was told the U of M Chronic Pain department which should be leading the way for our State in the implementation of the law directed Doctors not to write recommendations . Their pain contracts when I lost saw them prevented being on the program it is absolutely barbaric . They should be the leading research institution in our State documenting what is happening these first three years but discrimination precludes research and funding for it . Just like these Judges abusing patients by ignoring the act in discrimination that rivals the 1960's civil rights injustices ( yes people are dieing now and being jailed unjustly denied education and employment ) Hospital Administrators and Department heads are preventing change from occurring no matter how despicable the consequences are for patients .

 

Opiate Dependant patients have no protections and they are incapacitated if their medication is interrupted and can die or suffer so much they can't see life as worth living and it is ...it gets better .as well as one gets by with less . Michigan is one of the most backward states having expanded access under Granholm to opiate pain relief with no guarantee of continuance of care should a patients Doctor die or move or they move etc .It is unbelievable but they wont give you pain medicine in jail though some do give methadone or suboxone which I cannot tolerate . Once your dependent some people can never balance out again without maintenance . Some patients denied pain treatment end up on street drugs our policies are so wrong . . It is a nightmare that sadly many severe chronic pain patients back into through no fault of their own from painful surgery injury and or disease . We can do better by them . Dependence is not a crime nor a weakness . Nobody knows why some people have more trouble then others just like nobody understands why some die from a bee sting or eating peanuts and the rest of us have no problem . Our attitudes must change now that modern times have increased supply and use .

 

Cannabis used adjunctly often reduces the level of opiates patients need and it also helps people titrate down . Nobody should ever be punished by withholding medication . Never . everyone should be entitled to long term titration's down with cannabis and it should be added to the list of approved use as a supplement to addiction medicine in our State .Cannabis use should be allowed in hospitals , nursing homes and patients should be able to have as many opportunities to use their medicine as anyone on any other substance . We have to stop discriminating against ourselves in what we conceptualize as reasonable and normal . Were not doing anything wrong but the converse is this can't be used for a excuse of not accomplishing all we can . Cannabis should not be the focus of our lives just a tool that improves them . I pray in my lifetime I will see younger patients with severe chronic illness and or disease obtain educational grants and scholarships denied now as well as employment opportunities they deserve on merit by their abilities without discrimination . Were the ones doing this for the Children . Nobody should be denied the medical benefit nor denied access to society for exercising that need .

 

I agree 100%. There is a time and place for everything.

[Dr. Bob]

This is why I beg people unfamiliar with the need for opiate therapy that feel cannabis is their ticket off for what wasn't necessary and is dangerous to consider there are people who are kept alive by it and benefit . We must protect all patients in our words and deeds . Cannabis is uniting a huge group of patients whose voice can be used for good ..

 

What this thread is saying is true . People who have never suffered severe intractable unsolvable even undiagnosable severe chronic pain have no idea and are lucky they don't . I was told the U of M Chronic Pain department which should be leading the way for our State in the implementation of the law directed Doctors not to write recommendations . Their pain contracts when I lost saw them prevented being on the program it is absolutely barbaric . They should be the leading research institution in our State documenting what is happening these first three years but discrimination precludes research and funding for it . Just like these Judges abusing patients by ignoring the act in discrimination that rivals the 1960's civil rights injustices ( yes people are dieing now and being jailed unjustly denied education and employment ) Hospital Administrators and Department heads are preventing change from occurring no matter how despicable the consequences are for patients .

 

Opiate Dependant patients have no protections and they are incapacitated if their medication is interrupted and can die or suffer so much they can't see life as worth living and it is ...it gets better .as well as one gets by with less . Michigan is one of the most backward states having expanded access under Granholm to opiate pain relief with no guarantee of continuance of care should a patients Doctor die or move or they move etc .It is unbelievable but they wont give you pain medicine in jail though some do give methadone or suboxone which I cannot tolerate . Once your dependent some people can never balance out again without maintenance . Some patients denied pain treatment end up on street drugs our policies are so wrong . . It is a nightmare that sadly many severe chronic pain patients back into through no fault of their own from painful surgery injury and or disease . We can do better by them . Dependence is not a crime nor a weakness . Nobody knows why some people have more trouble then others just like nobody understands why some die from a bee sting or eating peanuts and the rest of us have no problem . Our attitudes must change now that modern times have increased supply and use .

 

Cannabis used adjunctly often reduces the level of opiates patients need and it also helps people titrate down . Nobody should ever be punished by withholding medication . Never . everyone should be entitled to long term titration's down with cannabis and it should be added to the list of approved use as a supplement to addiction medicine in our State .Cannabis use should be allowed in hospitals , nursing homes and patients should be able to have as many opportunities to use their medicine as anyone on any other substance . We have to stop discriminating against ourselves in what we conceptualize as reasonable and normal . Were not doing anything wrong but the converse is this can't be used for a excuse of not accomplishing all we can . Cannabis should not be the focus of our lives just a tool that improves them . I pray in my lifetime I will see younger patients with severe chronic illness and or disease obtain educational grants and scholarships denied now as well as employment opportunities they deserve on merit by their abilities without discrimination . Were the ones doing this for the Children . Nobody should be denied the medical benefit nor denied access to society for exercising that need .

 

Well said my friend. Join the survey I suggested and post your results. We need to educate. This is our chance to make a difference.

 

Dr. Bob

[peanutbutter]

how bad is U-of-M?? I will be seeing my doc at the head and neuropathic pain clinic on Tuesday in hopes he will sign for me. I have been somewhat nervous about this. I don't get the issue with it. I have swallowed and injected just about every medicine they pushed my way. Why wouldn't a doctor really want to help? I get it's politics. Does anyone have info for pain clinic at U-of-m?

 

Don't know about now .. but in the past the policy of the system was to stand against mmj.

[Dr. Bob]

how bad is U-of-M?? I will be seeing my doc at the head and neuropathic pain clinic on Tuesday in hopes he will sign for me. I have been somewhat nervous about this. I don't get the issue with it. I have swallowed and injected just about every medicine they pushed my way. Why wouldn't a doctor really want to help? I get it's politics. Does anyone have info for pain clinic at U-of-m?

 

Last I saw, they do not accept the card. I would not mess with them and mention it. Do the survey under a false name as I suggested, call the clinic and ask, but don't let them trace it back to you and you will have your answer. Then share it with us.

 

Dr. Bob

[peanutbutter]

Don't know about now .. but in the past the policy of the system was to stand against mmj.

 

Let me back up a little there.

 

In many departments, they are willing to ignore the mmj use. A few people want to watch and see what happens.