Dr. Bob Doing Study On Mmj Patient Access To Primary Care Doctors

[Dr. Bob]

OK Folks, here is a chance to really open some eyes in Lansing. I am probably going to be called before the House to testify about patient access to certifications through their primary care doctors. My point in an article in the Lansing State Journal is that most (14 of 15) primary care doctors do not participate in the MMMA due to hospital or employer restrictions and that most patients, once they get a card, either have their pain medications withheld or are simply kicked out of the practice. I want to get a sampling of 1000 or so medical practices in the state and the hurdles faced by patients that use medical marijuana. Of course I have my own experience with discrimination against patients with a card, but I want some additional evidence so that I can overcome a claim that what I am saying is self serving and not based on an independent study.

 

Here is what I want everyone to do.

 

Use a false name and start calling primary care (Internal Medicine, Family Practice, OB/GYN, Pain Clinics) in your towns.

 

Document the name of the practice, the phone number and who you talked to.

 

Report if they are accepting new patients.

 

If they are, THEN tell them you aren't on pain medications but do treat your own chronic pain with MMJ and have a card. Tell them that you do, on rare occasions, need a narcotic pain killer. Ask if the fact you have a MMJ card with cause problems with that or a pain contract. Write down their response and if they are still willing to see you.

 

Ask them to provide you with a copy of their policy on Medical Marijuana. Ask them to fax it to you at 989-317-3150.

 

Repeat the process until you have talked to at least 10 practices that are accepting patients.

 

 

I am going to record the number of primary care practices, as a percentage, that are accepting new patients. I will also find out what percentage of those practices that are accepting new patients that will honor a medical marijuana card.

 

The thrust of my article was that regular primary care doctors will not honor the card or accept patients that have a card. Let's see if I am right or wrong. We will conduct the study during August in preparation for my report in Sept. You can fax your results to the above fax number (please put your name and contact number as I may contact you and the practices directly to follow up- but I will not share it with anyone else and will treat the report you submit as a medical record).

 

Thanks for your help....

 

Dr. Bob

[Dr. Bob]

PS report your findings in this forum thread.... Together we will make a difference. You can use your screen name here, but send me a PM with your contact info so I can follow up.

 

Dr. Bob

[ToadInCan]

Dr. Bob... your mail box is full and not accepting messages.

[cristinew]

also the VA and tribal drs will not sign, some would but they cant , this has to be brought up also

[+Silverblue]

That's a good point, that some drs would like to do the certs but they aren't allowed to. I've seen a couple of messages on this site about that, a dr told the pt they couldn't do it because they weren't allowed to, and said it in such a way that it could be interpreted as the dr saying if it were up to her or him, she or he would do it. It wasn't said outright though. They have to be careful what they say even in confidence, just like everyone else does, unfortunately, because someone might say something and the dr could get in deep trouble. What a sad world.

 

This data is extremely important, it'd show the sentiment among drs. It'd be good of some would admit they would like to, even if they don't want their name published. I wish that info could be documented without causing the good ones to be punished, but it'd still be considered as credible evidence. There has to be a way to get that done somehow. At least the info that will be gathered will help Dr. Bob and could help us all.

 

Thanks for standing up for us, doc.

 

Sb

[cristinew]

bump

[+EdwardGlen]

I e-mailed a letter to Bb I received from my pain management Doctor that according to her staff was drafted with help from the AG's office and either a DEA or DOJ representative.

 

If he would redact all personal information, names, phone numbers, etc, he can post a copy here.

[Dr. Bob]

Dr. Bob... your mail box is full and not accepting messages.

 

Got it fixed, will send you a message to get the ball rolling.

 

Dr. Bob

[Dr. Bob]

I e-mailed a letter to Bb I received from my pain management Doctor that according to her staff was drafted with help from the AG's office and either a DEA or DOJ representative.

 

If he would redact all personal information, names, phone numbers, etc, he can post a copy here.

 

Send it to me, or fax to my office with a cover sheet that says Patient Access Study. The fax is 989-317-3150

[lawyercaregiver]

This is valuable information. However a better way would be to simply get a list of all primary care doctors in the State. Then using a random number chart you could call between 40 and 100 physicians and get a very precise statistically significant reading on physician telephone intake procedures. You could even find out what percentage of primary docs are willing to consider recommending marijuana (but we don't want to put you out of business!).

 

Of course you don't need institutional review board approval for your plan.

 

From my experience my doctors have been very, very supportive of my use of medical marijuana although none have been willing to sign a recommendation.

[peanutbutter]

I believe the U of M pain clinic policy is about to be faxed to you.

[peanutbutter]

OK .. ten

 

With the U of M pain centers Ann Arbor Brighton Canton and Dexter

Varies with the doctor according to the receptionist. Against the written policy. Some doctors will ignore the ID card. None will write letters.

Case by case.

 

Another pain clinic in the Ann Arbor area. Michigan Pain Specialists. Includes doctors:

Alexander Shalhoub DO, Bourab Louis MD, Chatas John MD, Freydl Karl DO, Washabaugh Edward MD

(I think the names are transposed in the phone book)

No pain meds for mmj patients.

 

Internal medicine "IHA" on Commonwealth in Ann Arbor.

Only one of 8 doctors will work with an mmj cardholder. Dr Winston.

The rest will not:

Durfee Mary MD, Joel Binju MD,Papo Hina MD, Smith Sharon MD, Thomas Tendai MD

[+EdwardGlen]

Send it to me, or fax to my office with a cover sheet that says Patient Access Study. The fax is 989-317-3150

 

 

Will get it to you Tuesday afternoon....

 

Ed

 

Michigan Primary care Drs legislative Lobbying group

http://www.mpca.net/

 

 

Michigan Family Doctors by City

http://www.healthgrades.com/family-practice-directory/mi-michigan

[phaquetoo]

OK Folks, here is a chance to really open some eyes in Lansing. I am probably going to be called before the House to testify about patient access to certifications through their primary care doctors. My point in an article in the Lansing State Journal is that most (14 of 15) primary care doctors do not participate in the MMMA due to hospital or employer restrictions and that most patients, once they get a card, either have their pain medications withheld or are simply kicked out of the practice. I want to get a sampling of 1000 or so medical practices in the state and the hurdles faced by patients that use medical marijuana. Of course I have my own experience with discrimination against patients with a card, but I want some additional evidence so that I can overcome a claim that what I am saying is self serving and not based on an independent study.

 

Here is what I want everyone to do.

 

Use a false name and start calling primary care (Internal Medicine, Family Practice, OB/GYN, Pain Clinics) in your towns.

 

Document the name of the practice, the phone number and who you talked to.

 

Report if they are accepting new patients.

 

If they are, THEN tell them you aren't on pain medications but do treat your own chronic pain with MMJ and have a card. Tell them that you do, on rare occasions, need a narcotic pain killer. Ask if the fact you have a MMJ card with cause problems with that or a pain contract. Write down their response and if they are still willing to see you.

 

Ask them to provide you with a copy of their policy on Medical Marijuana. Ask them to fax it to you at 989-317-3150.

 

Repeat the process until you have talked to at least 10 practices that are accepting patients.

 

 

I am going to record the number of primary care practices, as a percentage, that are accepting new patients. I will also find out what percentage of those practices that are accepting new patients that will honor a medical marijuana card.

 

The thrust of my article was that regular primary care doctors will not honor the card or accept patients that have a card. Let's see if I am right or wrong. We will conduct the study during August in preparation for my report in Sept. You can fax your results to the above fax number (please put your name and contact number as I may contact you and the practices directly to follow up- but I will not share it with anyone else and will treat the report you submit as a medical record).

 

Thanks for your help....

 

Dr. Bob

 

 

I have one question. Why do i have to use a fake name when i call a dr.,,come on now, im sure there are enough pts who have been quit or denied meds from the dr.s that we dont have to fabricate anything,,,,I have my med records from my dr of several several yrs, quiting me right after i got my card,,and they urine screen me for first time in like 9 yrs there,,,test pos for thc,,they quit me and wrote in my records that im a poly substance abuser,,,never said that in my records from all the narcotics they were writing me,,,and almost killed me!

 

I just realy dont see the need for dishonesty in this,,,we have plenty of pt's getting screwed everyday,,we have factual ones,,why fictiion?

 

Just wondering?

 

I have over 13 yrs worth of medical records in my posession, I get my records copied every 6 months,,they are mine and I want my own copy's for me and what ever i mite need them for!

 

I totaly agree we need our primary care dr to be certing us if we qualify,,,I was told flat out by mid mich health houghton lake that she can no longer see me because im an mm card holder,,,period,,they dont her employer wont allow her!

 

Peace

FTW

Jim

[lawyercaregiver]

It might be easier to cut/paste this form I created below into a word processor and print it off or just use the computer and hit REPLY. Pay no attention to that typing in the background...

 

 

 

Call primary care (Internal Medicine, Family Practice, OB/GYN, Pain Clinics) in your towns.

 

Phone Number:

 

name of the practice

 

Person spoke with:

 

Accepting new patients? Yes No

 

If they are, THEN

 

-tell them: "I am not taking pain medications but I do treat my own chronic pain with Marijuana and I have a medical marijuana card."

 

-Tell them: "I do rarely need a narcotic pain killer."

 

"Will this be a problem?"_______________________________________

 

"Will I need a pain contract?" _______________________ Yes No

 

"Is your office still willing to see me?"

 

---Ask them to provide you with a copy of their policy on Medical Marijuana.

---Ask them to fax it to you at 989-317-3150.

 

Repeat the process until you have talked to at least 10 practices that are accepting patients.

[GregS]

Before we pee all over ourselves, should we consider whether providing false information is legitimate? There is no suggestion that anyone make the recommended statements only if they are, in fact, true. Why make anything up? Are there not enough legitmate cases where tx is witheld, without having to make shuett up? They only need one instance of false statements to discredit your premise DB.

 

It is not a bad idea to use facts. It is a bad idea to use contrived facts.

[lawyercaregiver]

From a legal perspective, there is no duty owed to a physician you call at random to reveal your actual name and I am fairly sure there is no law requiring you to give your actual name.

 

From a scientific perspective, deception is a legitimate tactic in medical research (but you need to fill out additional forms for the Institutional Review Board and get special approval if you want to publish your data in an academic journal).

 

You could just as easily say you are calling for your son/brother fictitious friend or whatever. All you are getting is information from the person who answers the phone plus there published policy. So deception is not really necessary here.

 

Just tell the nice lady that you are calling for somebody else if you have some moral qualm about lying.....

[MichaelWert75]

I got a call today after being urine tested by Michigan Medical Pain Consultants in GR Mi. I knew what the call was for, the nurse, Sue, tols me they found 600 units of THC in my system and they could not prescribe me pain medication any longer....and began to explain why. I said "have a nice day" and hung up. I knew what the call concerned and spared her the breath. I dont know how it is LEGAL to refuse medical treatment. Drs think they are god when all they really do is promise life and watch you die, 1 dollar at a time. I SCREAM DISCRIMINATION.

[drtarzanmd]

I got a call today after being urine tested by Michigan Medical Pain Consultants in GR Mi. I knew what the call was for, the nurse, Sue, tols me they found 600 units of THC in my system and they could not prescribe me pain medication any longer....and began to explain why. I said "have a nice day" and hung up. I knew what the call concerned and spared her the breath. I dont know how it is LEGAL to refuse medical treatment. Drs think they are god when all they really do is promise life and watch you die, 1 dollar at a time. I SCREAM DISCRIMINATION.

 

First of All ...

 

Welcome " MichealWert75 " to MMMA 2.0

 

I feel your Fustration ...

 

Chit like that is happening ALL around the State ...

 

Most Clinic Doctors don't give a Chit about you ...

Their job is to make money for the Clinic ...

I sometimes feel they get incentives to write

perscriptions for their patients ...

 

Plus many are Federal Funded ...

and their under direct order that they must test you

for illegal substances ....

 

What really bothers me a Doctor takes an oath :

 

Original Greek Wikisource has original text related to this article:

 

Original, translated into English:

 

“ I swear by Apollo, the healer, Asclepius, Hygieia, and Panacea, and I take to witness all the gods, all the goddesses, to keep according to my ability and my judgment, the following Oath and agreement:

To consider dear to me, as my parents, him who taught me this art; to live in common with him and, if necessary, to share my goods with him; To look upon his children as my own brothers, to teach them this art.

 

I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone.

 

I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.

 

But I will preserve the purity of my life and my arts.

 

I will not cut for stone, even for patients in whom the disease is manifest; I will leave this operation to be performed by practitioners, specialists in this art.

 

In every house where I come I will enter only for the good of my patients, keeping myself far from all intentional ill-doing and all seduction and especially from the pleasures of love with women or with men, be they free or slaves.

 

All that may come to my knowledge in the exercise of my profession or in daily commerce with men, which ought not to be spread abroad, I will keep secret and will never reveal.

 

If I keep this oath faithfully, may I enjoy my life and practice my art, respected by all men and in all times; but if I swerve from it or violate it, may the reverse be my lot.

 

 

How can a doctor just kick you out

after giving a patient Narcotics for years ?

 

Knowing FULL WELL a person could physically DIE ?

 

Forcing a person to go DRY TURKEY is'nt harming a person ?

Physically ? Mentally ? Emotionally ?

 

That is MESSED UP ....

[mrd]

I* had a patient who in order to be on the liver transplant list had to give up mmj. This was via the Henry Ford Health System. Two weeks before he passed he was taken off the liver transplant list and he started using mmj again. He had become relatively tolerant of Oxycontin. His wife told me that it made those last two weeks of his life more relaxed and comfortable.

 

The UM did a study in 2008 of the outcomes of liver transplant recipients who used cannabis against those who did not. The result of the study was that there was no difference in outcomes. So at the UM system you can smoke cannabis and be on their transplant list while at Henry Ford they will not.

 

Perhaps this is something the law should address.

[lawyercaregiver]

First of All ...

 

Welcome " MichealWert75 " to MMMA 2.0

 

I feel your Fustration ...

 

Chit like that is happening ALL around the State ...

 

Most Clinic Doctors don't give a Chit about you ...

Their job is to make money for the Clinic ...

I sometimes feel they get incentives to write

perscriptions for their patients ...

 

Plus many are Federal Funded ...

and their under direct order that they must test you

for illegal substances ....

 

What really bothers me a Doctor takes an oath :

 

 

 

How can a doctor just kick you out

after giving a patient Narcotics for years ?

 

Knowing FULL WELL a person could physically DIE ?

 

Forcing a person to go DRY TURKEY is'nt harming a person ?

Physically ? Mentally ? Emotionally ?

 

That is MESSED UP ....

 

I always choke up when I read the Hippocratic Oath. Apparently you haven't seen the latest updated version that has been changed ever so slighterl:

 

I swear by Apollo the physician and by all the gods and goddesses that I will first obtain insurance approval before recommending or agreeing to perform a procedure.

 

I will look down upon my professors.

 

I will prescribe regimens for the good of my paycheck, according to my ability, and my judgment and never do harm to anyone unless otherwise required by any federal, State or local bureaucratic rule, law, or regulation.

[lilbuddy]

Hi Dr. Bob,

Do you want just numbers, or do you want simple bar graphs or something on Excel or minitab?

Thanks in advance for your reply,

lilbuddy

[Dr. Bob]

I've been on vacation (or abducted by aliens as BB puts it).

 

Let's go over a couple of things on this post. I recommended using a false name for the inquiry because I don't want it coming back on you the patient. You do owe a doc your name in the course of treatment, but for asking a question of the staff without being a patient you certainly do not. I get calls from folks all the time that either won't give their name or are very hesitant about giving a 'first name only'. They are concerned and just want information. I give it to them.

 

As for what I want, I think I was pretty clear. I want a sampling of 10 doctors, by name, in your towns. They need to be accepting patients, and then I want the MMJ question brought up and please note their response. What I want to show the committee is a random sampling of primary care physicians throughout the state and the access they provide to the MMMA. So far fewer than 1 in 10 are willing to even accept a new patient that is interested in or holds a MMJ card.

 

They need to understand in Lansing exactly what they are trying to do and the expected outcome of their efforts given the current medical climate.

 

Dr. Bob

[bumrush]

starting my phone campaign monday

[Dr. Bob]

starting my phone campaign monday

 

ty for your help

 

Dr. Bob