Honest Opinions Needed

[jjbigs]

Too funny. GO FOR IT DUDE!!!! Don't let people discourage you from anything you feel is right. You know the laws, you know the risks. You have invested money and time and you want to help. You sound like a reasonable person and the only way you will get good is to start. There are haters in every industry and you will always have people tell you what you can't do. Do not deal with people that don't support you and your decisions. People that are in it for the money will be weeded out by patients, not cops. lol

[jjbigs]

If we can get everyone to patient up and start growing then every house in the land will have the wonderful aroma of mary jane coming from it and the cops won't know what to do. Imagine them walking their drug dog down the sidewalk and it hitting on every house. I think everyone should get a card and I think everyone should qualify because we all get headaches right? So why do we have to reach for an aspirin instead of our PB oil? We should all get to use marijuana for even minor aches and pains and imagine if every house grew one small plant or even just grew it as a houseplant. My old lady used to grow an aloe plant and break off the leaves and use them when the kiddees got burned or what not. Why not grow your marijuana the same way and pinch off a bud when you have a headache.

a novel thought, but mm does not grow like aloe lmao, that would be nice to just cut a lil bud off of the house plant when you have a head ache! it is refreshing to hear how newbies think, and I dont mean that in a mean way, I find it to be very refreshing to read something like this,,but we do need to educate everyone on how mm is grown, You may be able to get away with the plant in the window for the summer, but he budds will not be that big or good, but hey they will be there, a lil word of advise, if you have cats, keep em away from the window your plant is in, or you will be smoking cat hair with your head ache cure lol!

[I wood]

I am a caregiver.I am a good grower.I still am not gona give a free oz to any ol patient that comes asking...I mean after all, someones gotta pay for it, and patients are the only ones alowd to have it..now there are exceptions to "free" I have a patient who is mostly free.(1 oz free/per/month compensates for anything after, witch is usually very little if anything..1oz is enough for him) BUT I am not gona give anything free short of samples, that costs me money to grow just for the "right" to grow someones plants...Its a matter of do I genuinely believe this persons quality of life will be increased from mm use,that he/she cant afford it and that he/she is actually going to use it and not sell it for there own profit...somethings might sound to good BUT there are good/compassionate people here.

 

 

There will always be corruption in positions of power.

I was not suggesting that you do.I was not trying to tell anybody else what to do, everyone has their own costs and obligations. I set my price and it allows me to do what I do with my pateints. My compensation is in line with the jacson market from what I hear.

Some poeple sell at low prices and give nothing away, the end rusult is about the same.

I entered into an agreement that I was ok with and will stick to it.

I need to word things more carefully in the future I think, I'm not trying to offend anyone.

[pergamum362]

No offense taken on any level.free is always good but it dont exist in cannabis growing.

[donnachris]

No offense taken on any level.free is always good but it dont exist in cannabis growing.

 

I just gave away free meds to a patient last week and the took the same patient to the farmers market where he picked up more FREE meds. So you can't say that it doesn't exist in cannabis growing because it is around us all the time you just have to find the right people.

[Medcnman]

No offense taken on any level.free is always good but it dont exist in cannabis growing.

It does when you have compassion. Medcnman

[Robman]

i am not a current cg but i would like to give it a try in the future i have grown for awhile and im good at what i do, but i would not have a problem giving a patient a free oz every crop, and if one of them were in a tough spot i wouldnt mind helping them out with some meds , but thats just me .

[MedPatient636]

Each of my patients are GIVEN "free" .5-1 oz each and every harvest. There's enough to go around . No need to charge my patients .

[Mickeydee]

I've run a couple of small businesses over the last decade or so and my comment will come from that background. Your household, your medical grow set up...your life is like a business. Money in money out and is there any left over at the end of the month? Someone asked me this question years ago "how many deals(transactions) can you make if you have a $5.00 profit when its over? Indefinite. How many deals can you make if you lose $5.00? There is definitely a point where if you are losing money or just breaking even you will be unable to continue operating under those circumstances." Everyone must decide what their finished product is worth and what the cost of producing that product is. Then its a matter of personal choice (and current market conditions) as to how much you try and charge or not for your product or service. Many people totally underestimate what the actual costs are to produce a product or service....the devil is in the details and the 800lb gorilla of details with growing MM is risk. How do you put a number on or assign a value/cost to the risk? Sorry if I rambled but all of these things should be considered and added into the equation before you make a decision on how compassionate you can afford to be

[Willy]

must be nice to put out all the money it takes to grow for 5 patients, and give all the meds away. I'm sorry but i can't possibly continue to pay 500.+ a month just for electric and give all away free. I do give free meds. but a patient that works, full time or goes to college isn't as bad off as i am. .. I feel fair compensation is in order. Aren't I allowed to at least break even. GIVE ME A BREAK...

[restlesslegs]

I had someone tell me they wanted a free ounce then so much $ per 1/4 after that. They first wanted me to give them the free ounce then if needed pay for the other they might need. I really can't do that it does take extra time for adding more plants to care for and room and soil and fertilizer and pots and on and on and on. Hey if I can I don't mind giving to those in need but I am as broke as those who need the free meds! I can give some away but really need some money first to pay the bills to be able to grow for others. I'm trying to set this all up so I can break even on my bills so I can afford to grow for myself and others, I am not greedy and don't want to not include those in need that is for sure but still do need some kind of compensation then if there is overages after the bills are paid hey no problem about giving the meds away.

 

Those of you who give others free meds what is your "policy" about that?

[LITLJON]

1^st Why is this old backside of a thread started by someone (cough LEO) W/OUT a clue, being brought up.

2^nd Anyone who quits their day job to make a living off MM and the sick is nothing less of greed!

3^rd Remember w/out the MM patients MM "caregivers" WOULDN'T EVEN EXIST. Would you be a "caregiver" if the patient retained possession of the plants? Look up the definition of a "caregiver" a good share are nothing more than a grower(the only ones that will complain about this is if it's true). Also it takes only a simple stroke of a pen to relieve you of "caregiver" status. To quote someone I don't care for "YOUR FIRED" Keep that in mind.

 

edit: I do believe in fair compansation for caregivers just not greed. Patients already pay to much money heathcare.

[LITLJON]

How about they buy the first 40g per cycle at $10 and the rest is free. 5 PT's $2000 a cycle. Not directed at you restlesslegs.

Not buy but compensate.

I had someone tell me they wanted a free ounce then so much $ per 1/4 after that. They first wanted me to give them the free ounce then if needed pay for the other they might need. I really can't do that it does take extra time for adding more plants to care for and room and soil and fertilizer and pots and on and on and on. Hey if I can I don't mind giving to those in need but I am as broke as those who need the free meds! I can give some away but really need some money first to pay the bills to be able to grow for others. I'm trying to set this all up so I can break even on my bills so I can afford to grow for myself and others, I am not greedy and don't want to not include those in need that is for sure but still do need some kind of compensation then if there is overages after the bills are paid hey no problem about giving the meds away.

 

Those of you who give others free meds what is your "policy" about that?

[purklize]

Don't confuse need for greed.

[Fat Freddy]

Scatter I can relate to your conundrum, on one hand you want to help the sick and dying. On the other you need to make some coin to at least cover your expenses.

 

My 1st garden was a great success grew good meds. But I failed at curing and had to compost my meds due to mold. My conviction is that if I would not use it to relive my pain it was not good enough for anyone else.

So I took a loss, that's okay to me it was a great learning experience. So if you do not have a deep seated desire to provide the best you can then sell off the equipment.

But if you find yourself reading all you can to learn how to. Things will become clearer and you can make a choice then.

 

Like you I have limited resources and have heard the scary stories concerning patients and law enforcement. As I write this I am in a holding pattern on my grow, awaiting news from several fronts. i.e. court cases concerning Secure enclosed facilities, and current proposed amendments to the medical marijuana law. For me it is a passion to become the best I can at being a provider so I read everything I can. And I talk to a lot of growers that have been around the block and know what time of day it is. I talk to patients to gain more insight into what they need and expect from a provider.

So go to places like farmers markets and talk to people and see where you belong in this. Perhaps you would be a great advocate once you have the knowledge to present our issues to others.

It is however your choice. I truly hope that you discover what your motive is and act accordingly.

[drtarzanmd]

Scatter I can relate to your conundrum, on one hand you want to help the sick and dying. On the other you need to make some coin to at least cover your expenses.

 

My 1st garden was a great success grew good meds. But I failed at curing and had to compost my meds due to mold. My conviction is that if I would not use it to relive my pain it was not good enough for anyone else.

So I took a loss, that's okay to me it was a great learning experience. So if you do not have a deep seated desire to provide the best you can then sell off the equipment.

But if you find yourself reading all you can to learn how to. Things will become clearer and you can make a choice then.

 

Like you I have limited resources and have heard the scary stories concerning patients and law enforcement. As I write this I am in a holding pattern on my grow, awaiting news from several fronts. i.e. court cases concerning Secure enclosed facilities, and current proposed amendments to the medical marijuana law. For me it is a passion to become the best I can at being a provider so I read everything I can. And I talk to a lot of growers that have been around the block and know what time of day it is. I talk to patients to gain more insight into what they need and expect from a provider.

So go to places like farmers markets and talk to people and see where you belong in this. Perhaps you would be a great advocate once you have the knowledge to present our issues to others.

It is however your choice. I truly hope that you discover what your motive is and act accordingly.

 

 

Great Advice ...

[LITLJON]

By all means do I understand "need". I'm just a little passionate on this issue. Unfortunately as much as some people try to help there can be a fine line in that scenario.

It's just my hope that CG's/growers (I think that they could be called the 1%)can humble them selfs.

 

Don't confuse need for greed.

 

2^nd Anyone who quits their day job to make a living off MM and the sick is nothing less of greed!

 

edit: I do believe in fair compansation for caregivers just not greed.

Patients already pay to much money heathcare.

[purklize]

What I am trying to say is that if someone works 40 hours a week caregiving, between tending to their plants, researching solutions to problems, and filling out paperwork, they should be paid enough to be able to live a decent life. Keep in mind that most caregivers either have to buy health insurance themselves (10k/year) or go without. This is in addition to mortgages, food, gas, cars, heat, a humble vacation every once in a while, saving pennies for retirement since social security will probably get slaughtered by the government before long, college for the kids, retainers for attorneys, electric bills, replacement equipment, etc... they can't raise a family without a couple grand a month in income, and to expect them to get a second job so patients get free meds is just rude imo (I know you didn't say that!!! But i've heard it said). I am an ardent socialist but peasants sharing their peanuts ain't socialism!!! The problem right now is that we don't have single payer healthcare, so those least able to pay are left with the bill. If caregivers are not compensated we will have very few left, as they will HAVE to spend their time doing something that pays. Not really anyone except the 1% is doing too well these days.

[LITLJON]

And who pays the patient,

as A PATIENT I HAVE NONE OF THIS AND VERY LITTLE OF THE REST( Keep in mind that most caregivers either have to buy health insurance themselves (10K/year) or go without. This is in addition to gas, cars, a humble vacation every once in a while, saving pennies for retirement since social security will probably get slaughtered by the government before long, college ) 10K a year for insurance that's more than I have for income a year and more than likely many other patients are in a similar income bracket.

 

"get a second job so patients get free meds is just rude imo" read back through my post I never said any thing about getting free meds

 

You do not now know or do I THINK you ever grasp what I trying to convey and I forgive you.

 

OH ya don't think I don't know what it takes to grow, not to mention to run a business, been doing it long before I landed in a wheelchair or the mm law. I just don't think many know what it takes to be a real caregiver it's more about the $ to them and they fall into 1% I spoke of before.

 

So you expect 5 patients to support you? (thats some business model)You better go find that other 1%(the rich) as patients.

 

I really would like to here from you what is a caregiver in your mind and not a book definition go a head look deep inside yourself if you dare.

Untill there is a fully open market to distribute overages, making a living off the just 5 patients (5 people even) is just plain wrong. Can we agree on that?

,

What I am trying to say is that if someone works 40 hours a week caregiving, between tending to their plants, researching solutions to problems, and filling out paperwork, they should be paid enough to be able to live a decent life. Keep in mind that most caregivers either have to buy health insurance themselves (10k/year) or go without. This is in addition to mortgages, food, gas, cars, heat, a humble vacation every once in a while, saving pennies for retirement since social security will probably get slaughtered by the government before long, college for the kids, retainers for attorneys, electric bills, replacement equipment, etc... they can't raise a family without a couple grand a month in income, and to expect them to get a second job so patients get free meds is just rude imo (I know you didn't say that!!! But i've heard it said). I am an ardent socialist but peasants sharing their peanuts ain't socialism!!! The problem right now is that we don't have single payer healthcare, so those least able to pay are left with the bill. If caregivers are not compensated we will have very few left, as they will HAVE to spend their time doing something that pays. Not really anyone except the 1% is doing too well these days.

[roadworkahead]

If a patient signs on with a caregiver/grower member at a dispensary, is the patient given a free ounce per month?

Many patients have several memberships to these places and did not sign with a caregiver at any of them. do they pay more than a patient that assigns a caregiver member/grower at the dispensary?

I think personal caregivers (outside dispensaries) go the extra mile for their patients. but never understood free meds. lower cost high quality meds yes, but free?

when a patient asks for a free ounce per month I recommend a dispensary.

[Fat Freddy]

We need to realize that some of us merely have medicaid, if it was not for the fact I am a Viet nam vet I would have to pay through the nose in co pays for my medical treatments. So I think consideration should be on a case by case basis. Compassion starts in the head and is nurtured by the heart.

 

If a patient signs on with a caregiver/grower member at a dispensary, is the patient given a free ounce per month?

Many patients have several memberships to these places and did not sign with a caregiver at any of them. do they pay more than a patient that assigns a caregiver member/grower at the dispensary?

I think personal caregivers (outside dispensaries) go the extra mile for their patients. but never understood free meds. lower cost high quality meds yes, but free?

when a patient asks for a free ounce per month I recommend a dispensary.

 

 

 

[purklize]

"get a second job so patients get free meds is just rude imo" read back through my post I never said any thing about getting free meds

 

You didn't read my post...

 

and to expect them to get a second job so patients get free meds is just rude imo (I know you didn't say that!!! But i've heard it said).

 

Most caregivers are poor patients themselves. As far as making a living off five patients, depends on how much work it is. I'm not a caregiver so I don't know. But I don't think they should be making the equivalent of minimum wage. Again the problem is that we don't have single payer and health insurance deosn't cover this stuff. Do you expect your doctor to not be paid? Of course not. The reasonable expectation is that the healthy and the wealthy pay the doctor, not the sick - but the doctor has to be paid otherwise economic forces are going to cause most of them to quit. And then you don't have doctors. Everyone's hard up these days and people are just trying to survive. If it takes a lot of work, and risking your freedom and the physical safety of your family to grow, and distribuet to patients, then yes they need to be paid fairly. Otherwise very few will do it and you can kiss mmj goodbye. There's a reason Lansing is trying to kill compensation of caregivers, they know it will largely kill the law if they succeed. It's great seeing some caregivers like PB who give out free oil etc but there are just not many willing to risk their lives and their freedom, and work hard for less than they could make at Burger King. Again, we need single payer. I did not say I expect you to sell your mother to pay your caregiver. It is wrong for poor patients to pay ANYTHING for health care imo. This is a situation that leads one to crazy conclusions because only two choices are offered: caregivers make little to nothing, which is wrong, or patients pay amounts they can't afford, which is wrong. It's a deception! BOTH OPTIONS ARE WRONG. We need single payer.

 

For now, focus your efforts on getting insurance/Medicaid to cover mmj, not trying to get caregivers to be unpaid. If they are unpaid everyone loses. If insurance/Medicaid covers mmj, everyone wins. It's the solution to the problem. Obviously Medicaid needs a drastic expansion, it should be available to anyone and everyone and cover everything. We can afford it as a society no problem. Our GDP per capita is a lot higher than that of France, but France somehow has single payer and very generous benefits and spends less than half what we do per capita. Some of these people have so much money... take the top 10 richest Americans and you could fund single payer right now. There is nothing that deserves getting paid 60 billion dollars when there are people out there starving, homeless, and/or dying from lack of access to medical care.

 

Where are these top 1% caregivers? I have yet to meet one. The top 1% are going to at least have high six figure incomes. I have yet to meet a caregiver makng more than maybe 20-30k a year. Poverty income... tough to raise a family on that. A great deal of them are poor patients themselves with no health coverage just trying to raise enough money to survive and pay the bills.

 

I agree with you on the farmer's markets, they're needed for patients who are getting ripped off by some greedy caregivers. I've heard of some CRAZY prices some caregivers have charged, but overall most are very reasonable. I don't think I'd be willing to do all the work and risk my freedom and my life and my house (if I had one) and everything I ever worked for, and my family, for 200/oz, Burger King sounds pretty appealing when put that way... again, if they are not paid well, they will quit, their families will beg them to stop because of all the fear and because they could be spending that time making money elsewhere, and their families probably are in need themselves...

 

as A PATIENT I HAVE NONE OF THIS AND VERY LITTLE OF THE REST( Keep in mind that most caregivers either have to buy health insurance themselves (10K/year) or go without. This is in addition to gas, cars, a humble vacation every once in a while, saving pennies for retirement since social security will probably get slaughtered by the government before long, college ) 10K a year for insurance that's more than I have for income a year and more than likely many other patients are in a similar income bracket.

 

I am in the same boat. As most of us are.

 

Please... I am extremely understanding of your situation... youre misreading me...

[LITLJON]

Last sentence Well said.

We need to realize that some of us merely have Medicaid, if it was not for the fact I am a Viet nam vet I would have to pay through the nose in co pays for my medical treatments. So I think consideration should be on a case by case basis. Compassion starts in the head and is nurtured by the heart.

 

 

Please... I am extremely understanding of your situation... youre misreading me...

.FYI some people on here (administrators lol long story all good now I think) have dubbed me a bit of a chit stirrer. Just so you know I'm not trying to offend but I am enjoying the debate.

 

But I think you misunderstand what I mean by the 1%, I'm referring to the growers that are just out to charge people the most they possibly can to pad their pockets. I hope that clarifies things a little.

Acting like the 1% are not out there(this is probably higher), thats nieve.

 

and to expect them to get a second job so patients get free meds is just rude imo (I know you didn't say that!!! But i've heard it said).

 

With your own words highlighted below I'll say again, to drop your full-time livelihood (day job) to be supported by five patients is simply not financially sound not to mention the morality of it. That in itself drives prices up so that they are unaffordable for patients. And until (as I said before) there is a true market established like the farmers markets not in just one part of the state but all over there is not any way logically you can make a living off five patients. Supplement income sure. I also believe that caregivers time is worth more than minimum wage!

I'm fortunate enough to know enough patients to cover my costs (without being raped on either side) and that is all I cover and yes if somebody is in need, low on funds, or just feeling really bad that day or whatever I'm more than willing to help somebody out (anybody) and I wasn't kidding about living on less than 10K a year, with the mortgage, utility bills, co-pays and all that other daily living expenses.

 

If needed I could provide you with a spreadsheet that shows what it entails financially to keep a grow going. Everything from supplies to new equipment to man-hours. It's not cheap by no means to grow for one person let alone six if you're patient to.

 

Where are these top 1% caregivers? I have yet to meet one. The top 1% are going to at least have high six figure incomes. I have yet to meet a caregiver makng more than maybe 20-30k a year. Poverty income... tough to raise a family on that. A great deal of them are poor patients themselves with no health coverage just trying to raise enough money to survive and pay the bills.

And another FYI actually the poverty level income to which you refer falls and the category of my a household that has four to six members in it. Not really important but a little fact.

 

Cheers

[newbie313]

We are all.in the same struggle. I think we should all.show each.other more thoughtfulness and understanding than we ccurrently.do.... so much judgement being passed.

 

And.for.the record I .have yet to meet a caregiver charging more than the dispensary

[LITLJON]

Who is passing judgment?

And for the record where in this conversation has this come up, on the subject of what a caregiver charges for his services.?

Cheers

We are all.in the same struggle. I think we should all.show each.other more thoughtfulness and understanding than we ccurrently.do.... so much judgement being passed.

 

And.for.the record I .have yet to meet a caregiver charging more than the dispensary