Co2

[DR. GT]

Ok so the time as come that i was thinking about running some co2 ..

 

So i figured i would ask my mmma friends what there input on co2 is.i've heard people say co2 is only good for veg. ive head people say it's only good for flowering. From what i know i would think that co2 is helpfully in all phases. just based to the fact that plats use co2 all the time....

 

So is co2 worth the money? dose it improve yeild? quality? Speed of growing? or is it all around just a good thing to use? and do you have to worrie about co2 being in your house do you have to have a completly sealed room to use it ?

 

these are some of the concerns i have with CO2 and wana see what people think...

 

Pease DR.GT

[MmmSquirrel4Dinner]

Don't make an investment in one of those crazy bottled CO2 machines or a Propane burner, you can get excellent results with a simple sugar water and yeast brew... kinda like beer.

Northern Brewer Online brewing company has cheap brewing equipment for the 'Do It Yourselfer'... 6 gallon bucket with a CO2 trap piped into your intake air supply or brew directly your grow room.

They have plastic and glass and stainless steel brewing equip reasonably priced.

 

One of my local indoor growing stores offers a 'bio-bag' that is filled with some funky looking sponge cake thingy, it produces CO2 for a few weeks and is really cheap ($35).

 

Hot growing room? Dry ice in a bucket of water chills and feeds simultaneously.

 

Carbon Di Oxide can be fed to your plants at any stage right up to the day before harvest.

[kruztydj]

You'll never get the amount of co2 ppms in the environment using a bag. Only way to run co2 is to run it correctly. That's a sealed room and lights on only at 1500ppms always. That takes a good monitor and reg for bottled or for your burner. Get the burner tanks are a pain in the backside trust me. Co2 does increase yield but ONLY if everything else is running perfectly. No mites, no plant issues temps help perfectly. If you don't have complete control of your grow then do that first.co2 should be the last thing you do and only when everything else is dialed in. Bloom only and at lights on only and maintain a constant level of 1500ppm of c02. Add a fan on for floor of the bloomroom pointing up as co2 will want to pool on the floor so lots of air flow and turn the temps up to 85 and see what happens :devil: If everything is dialed in right you'll see prolly 30% increase in yield and growth. Yeah they'll jump right out of the pots :rock:

[kruztydj]

Oh and be very careful with co2 cuz it can kill you at higher levels. Thats why i said if your going to run it then run it right as everything else is a complete waste of time. Home brew buckets do nothing period but take up space. To make the plants respond then you have to get levels up to 1500ppms. Several studies out there so give it a goggle. You'll soon see I know what i'm talking about. Been there done that.

[hofner67]

Also, from my understanding of photosynthesis, the plants only need co2 in the light phase. They actually use a bit of oxygen during the dark phase. Please, could someone more knowledgable confirm or correct

[Cannab Rx]

You'll never get the amount of co2 ppms in the environment using a bag. Only way to run co2 is to run it correctly. That's a sealed room and lights on only at 1500ppms always. That takes a good monitor and reg for bottled or for your burner. Get the burner tanks are a pain in the backside trust me. Co2 does increase yield but ONLY if everything else is running perfectly. No mites, no plant issues temps help perfectly. If you don't have complete control of your grow then do that first.co2 should be the last thing you do and only when everything else is dialed in. Bloom only and at lights on only and maintain a constant level of 1500ppm of c02. Add a fan on for floor of the bloomroom pointing up as co2 will want to pool on the floor so lots of air flow and turn the temps up to 85 and see what happens :devil: If everything is dialed in right you'll see prolly 30% increase in yield and growth. Yeah they'll jump right out of the pots :rock:

 

Well said kruztydj,

 

I use the Co2 in my Closed Growing Environment (CGE) and really only saw the benefit when all was dialed in and the environment sealed. The environment is monitored and electronically controlled for Temp, RH,and Co2. Also in use is the Hydro Innovations water cooling (8") with the chiller outdoors and a carbon filter to continuously scrub the air in the grow rooms.

 

The main reason I went to Co2 was because of the CGE, as the plants would be deprived of the needed Co2 since there is not an exchange with the outside environment. This also contains the odor from the grow which is a huge plus.

[I wood]

CO2 can be made pretty easily with gallon jugs.

I put about 2 cups sugar in a milk jug, add hot nonclorinated water to dissolve, top up to about %80 full add bakers yeast and shake. CO2 starts being made right away. When I get to work I first tighten the lid then shake the jugs to stimulate them, then loosen the lid again. Replace the ones that don't puff when shaken. 4 or 5 jugs per 1000watt bulb works as good as my old bottle and regulater did.

I know this may sound like a pain in the donkey but I have done it with up to 3200 watts flowering. Replace a few every other day and you have a never ending stream of cheap safe CO2.

I could not risk going in and out with tanks(bit of a red flag there).

My yeilds went up about 30% with denser nicer looking buds about a week sooner.

Tanks work great but are not absolutly needed.

If your garden is not a sealed environment you would just be pumping it out though.

To sumarize: CO2 is worth the effort.

[I wood]

Another benefit of CO2 is that raising it also raises the ideal temp of the plant. That is they can handle higher temps without problems. This reduces air conditioning needs/costs.

My little oasis operates at 80 to 82 degrees when lit and 68 to 72 degrees when dark.

100% organic with yeilds of .5 gram/watt/ 30 days.

[Medcnman]

CO2 boost buckets are an inexpensive way to try CO2. They run about $130-$140 in most hydro stores. Refills are $99. I ran them in my tents with pretty good success but i've since moved my grow into a room that I cant seal well enough. As krusty said, be careful with it. Make sure you get a meter to check ppm levels. Medcnman.

[Medcnman]

Also, from my understanding of photosynthesis, the plants only need co2 in the light phase. They actually use a bit of oxygen during the dark phase. Please, could someone more knowledgable confirm or correct

I have read the same. Ed Rosenthal has some very helpful books! Medcnman.

[hofner67]

I have read the same. Ed Rosenthal has some very helpful books! Medcnman.

 

Thanks.

[CaffeineForAll]

To elaborate on what others have said, and stir the pot some.

 

CO2 in beneficial to plants in elevated levels in all stages of growth. Remember CO2 is a corner stone of photosynthesis, and we try to mimic the outdoors as much as possible. CO2 levels RARELY fluctuate more than 100PPM and your room should either. Proper PPM must be maintained for the plant to fully utilize the CO2, that means, tanks, or burners. Brewers, buckets, bottles, and dry ice could in theory be used, but in practice are friggin hard to keep at a consitent level. I've done it in small poly rooms, but even then it took a week to get it dialed in. Both NG and LP have pro's and con's, my choice is tanks. Tanks are safer, and safety is darn near number 1 in my eyes. Natural Gas and Propane, while still considered safe, have higher rates of catastrophic failures resulting in injury or death. The chance is low, but still, no need to blow my self up. That doesn't mean tanks are 100% safe either, I'm sure most of us watch mythbusters lol. Also burners, BURN, aka added heat. In a sealed room, heat is the enemy. The tanks main draw back is refilling and their weight. However, they are cheaper long term if that's on your mind.

 

Plants use the most CO2 when the lights are on, they still use SOME at night, but not much. Most CO2 sensors are photocelled and shut off automatically when the lights shut down.

 

Ideal PPM is 1000-2000 PPM. Remember to try and place your sensor in or near the middle of your canopy for the most accurate reading of what your plants are receiving as CO2 is more dense than air and sinks to the bottom. Also, have at least one fan throwing air towards the ceiling to keep the CO2 from settling. Always use the 1/4 inch drilled hose hung from the ceiling, or place 1/4 air hose behind a central fan. If the fan does not oscillate ensure it doesn't blow directly on plants, or CO2 burn will result. Rooms must be AIR tight, preferably with a lung room/air lock for entry, or you'll start to curse as trips to AirGas/Hydroshop become frequent. A/C of some form is a MUST to keep temps in their proper zone.

 

As someone said CO2 is last when dialing in a room, and it changes nearly ALL of your variables for growth as CO2 is a corner stone of photosynthesis. For example, this is the formula I use for a grow room with CO2 supplementation.

 

CO2 supplemented to 1400-1600ppm

Lighting raised to 60-80 watts psf

Water usage increases roughly 50% for all stages of veg/bloom

Nutrient usage increased 20-50% for supplemented rooms, variance for strain dependence.

Humidity increased until a Vapor Pressure Deficit is seen (water on leaves usually) then decreased to prevent a VPD(reference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vapour_Pressure_Deficit)

Temperature increase of 10 degrees, example, ambient rooms I tend to keep at a constant 78* (Perpetual harvest), CO2 rooms 88* (Perpetual Harvest, on total harvest grows I ramp temps from 60* cloning to 78* mid flower, then ramp down to 68 just before harvest. When supplementing CO2 in a Total harvest I start at 70* and ramp the temps up to 88* in mid flower and down to 78* before harvest, I also ramp CO2 levels in total harvest grows, from 800ppm at cloning to 1600ppm at finish, I do not like to ramp down as I've had too many plants get mad and delay ripening when trying to limit CO2)

 

If you don't increase these factors yields will be the same or worse than ambient rooms.

 

Again, removing CO2 after supplementing is baaaaad for your plants, imagine what happens if you take your plant from under a thousand and put it under a 250.

 

Its a bunch of hassle, and hours in the rooms go up, but once dialed in its fantastic. Makes my soil plants yield like DWC. I usually see 20-50% increase in GPW overall, some strains, particularly sativas yield better results than indicas or ruderalis. Veg times are also usually cut in half.

[hofner67]

To elaborate on what others have said, and stir the poqt some.

 

CO2 in beneficial to plants in elevated levels in all stages of growth. Remember CO2 is a corner stone of photosynthesis, and we try to mimic the outdoors as much as possible. CO2 levels RARELY fluctuate more than 100PPM and your room should either. Proper PPM must be maintained for the plant to fully utilize the CO2, that means, tanks, or burners. Brewers, buckets, bottles, and dry ice could in theory be used, but in practice are friggin hard to keep at a consitent level. I've done it in small poly rooms, but even then it took a week to get it dialed in. Both NG and LP have pro's and con's, my choice is tanks. Tanks are safer, and safety is darn near number 1 in my eyes. Natural Gas and Propane, while still considered safe, have higher rates of catastrophic failures resulting in injury or death. The chance is low, but still, no need to blow my self up. That doesn't mean tanks are 100% safe either, I'm sure most of us watch mythbusters lol. Also burners, BURN, aka added heat. In a sealed room, heat is the enemy. The tanks main draw back is refilling and their weight. However, they are cheaper long term if that's on your mind.

 

Plants use the most CO2 when the lights are on, they still use SOME at night, but not much. Most CO2 sensors are photocelled and shut off automatically when the lights shut down.

 

Ideal PPM is 1000-2000 PPM. Remember to try and place your sensor in or near the middle of your canopy for the most accurate reading of what your plants are receiving as CO2 is more dense than air and sinks to the bottom. Also, have at least one fan throwing air towards the ceiling to keep the CO2 from settling. Always use the 1/4 inch drilled hose hung from the ceiling, or place 1/4 air hose behind a central fan. If the fan does not oscillate ensure it doesn't blow directly on plants, or CO2 burn will result. Rooms must be AIR tight, preferably with a lung room/air lock for entry, or you'll start to curse as trips to AirGas/Hydroshop become frequent. A/C of some form is a MUST to keep temps in their proper zone.

 

As someone said CO2 is last when dialing in a room, and it changes nearly ALL of your variables for growth as CO2 is a corner stone of photosynthesis. For example, this is the formula I use for a grow room with CO2 supplementation.

 

CO2 supplemented to 1400-1600ppm

Lighting raised to 60-80 watts psf

Water usage increases roughly 50% for all stages of veg/bloom

Nutrient usage increased 20-50% for supplemented rooms, variance for strain dependence.

Humidity increased until a Vapor Pressure Deficit is seen (water on leaves usually) then decreased to prevent a VPD(reference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vapour_Pressure_Deficit)

Temperature increase of 10 degrees, example, ambient rooms I tend to keep at a constant 78* (Perpetual harvest), CO2 rooms 88* (Perpetual Harvest, on total harvest grows I ramp temps from 60* cloning to 78* mid flower, then ramp down to 68 just before harvest. When supplementing CO2 in a Total harvest I start at 70* and ramp the temps up to 88* in mid flower and down to 78* before harvest, I also ramp CO2 levels in total harvest grows, from 800ppm at cloning to 1600ppm at finish, I do not like to ramp down as I've had too many plants get mad and delay ripening when trying to limit CO2)

 

If you don't increase these factors yields will be the same or worse than ambient rooms.

 

Again, removing CO2 after supplementing is baaaaad for your plants, imagine what happens if you take your plant from under a thousand and put it under a 250.

 

Its a bunch of hassle, and hours in the rooms go up, but once dialed in its fantastic. Makes my soil plants yield like DWC. I usually see 20-50% increase in GPW overall, some strains, particularly sativas yield better results than indicas or ruderalis. Veg times are also usually cut in half.

fricken wow

[pergamum362]

Yah caffieneguy pretty much laid it out for ya.Its only worth it if you meet all the prior listed things, otherwise its a waist and will probably loose some yield and cause problems with your plants.imo ..screw shakn up jugs of this or that, or putting some stinky azz chit in your room..buy some tanks, the bigger, the less frequent you have to fill it...you can usually pick them up pretty cheap at gas welding shops, you can get them filled there too, for right a #20 tank is around 15 bucks filled and about 80-90 for the tank, #50 tanks are about twice that cost but worth it if you have a truck or spacious car.(the tanks they sell are used)

[I wood]

Yah caffieneguy pretty much laid it out for ya.Its only worth it if you meet all the prior listed things, otherwise its a waist and will probably loose some yield and cause problems with your plants.imo ..screw shakn up jugs of this or that, or putting some stinky azz chit in your room..buy some tanks, the bigger, the less frequent you have to fill it...you can usually pick them up pretty cheap at gas welding shops, you can get them filled there too, for right a #20 tank is around 15 bucks filled and about 80-90 for the tank, #50 tanks are about twice that cost but worth it if you have a truck or spacious car.(the tanks they sell are used)

Yes, I agree jugs are not as convenient as tanks, but jail is less convenient. Being seen going in and out with 20# tanks was not an option in my situation, big red flag there. The jugs do work and are a cheap way to see the co2 in action, then buy a tank if happy with results.

I think after caffeinforalls reply this thread is done, wow that covered it well.

good luck,

R

[Darkmatter]

Oh and be very careful with co2 cuz it can kill you at higher levels. Thats why i said if your going to run it then run it right as everything else is a complete waste of time. Home brew buckets do nothing period but take up space. To make the plants respond then you have to get levels up to 1500ppms. Several studies out there so give it a goggle. You'll soon see I know what i'm talking about. Been there done that.

 

That would make it so you can not smoke in your grow correct? (Risk of explosion)

 

Personally I love to just sit in my grow by the exhaust fan, medicate, and contemplate on the state of my garden, and the meaning of life and such.

 

That, and a few other things make Co2 not for me IMO.

[ilynnboy]

That would make it so you can not smoke in your grow correct? (Risk of explosion)

 

Personally I love to just sit in my grow by the exhaust fan, medicate, and contemplate on the state of my garden, and the meaning of life and such.

 

That, and a few other things make Co2 not for me IMO.

Co2 is a fire retardant.

It will not explode or cause a fire. Next time you get gasoline, look up. See a those pipes and tanks? Most times those are Co2 fire extinguisher systems.

An overabundance of Co2 can suffocate. Not cause a fire.

I agree with the above posts. Get your grow dialed in before adding Co2, if not your wasting time and money.

[Darkmatter]

Co2 is a fire retardant.

It will not explode or cause a fire. Next time you get gasoline, look up. See a those pipes and tanks? Most times those are Co2 fire extinguisher systems.

An overabundance of Co2 can suffocate. Not cause a fire.

I agree with the above posts. Get your grow dialed in before adding Co2, if not your wasting time and money.

 

Thank you.

[bobandtorey]

Also, from my understanding of photosynthesis, the plants only need co2 in the light phase. They actually use a bit of oxygen during the dark phase. Please, could someone more knowledgable confirm or correct

 

Yep lights on co2 on

[CaffeineForAll]

Yes, I agree jugs are not as convenient as tanks, but jail is less convenient. Being seen going in and out with 20# tanks was not an option in my situation, big red flag there. The jugs do work and are a cheap way to see the co2 in action, then buy a tank if happy with results.

I think after hofner67s reply this thread is done, wow that covered it well.

good luck,

R

 

I will guarantee you run a bigger risk going to the large hydro shops than going to AirGas. Never had a problem, never seen LEO, to each their own. They don't even ask, not once have I been asked what I need it for. Then again I've always tended to try and not look like a stereotype and maybe that'y why I was never asked by them. I've had friends/fam notice a tank and ask what its for, My stated purpose for the tanks, has been, and always will be, a wet bar. Exposure is exposure so I can't argue with home made options. With the right knowledge you can easily build your own CO2 burner for NG or LP.

 

That would make it so you can not smoke in your grow correct? (Risk of explosion)

 

Personally I love to just sit in my grow by the exhaust fan, medicate, and contemplate on the state of my garden, and the meaning of life and such.

 

That, and a few other things make Co2 not for me IMO.

 

Correct, with the way most burners are setup, smoking is highly cautioned. Remember, NG and LP, are highly flammable. Accidents happen, and stupid happens. Most have tip sensors to shut down, and flame detectors, however its possible to puncture/fray the hoses used, more common O-Rings fail and create small leaks. The leaks build, the gas reaches proper saturation for ignition, and flash. Now if you built your room strong you may just lose the plants, possibly some equipment, more than likely your door would blow open, or some other weak spot, and oxygen would again fill the room, and create the chance of a secondary explosion, or will feed the flames long enough to ignite objects/melt cords.

 

Co2 is a fire retardant.

It will not explode or cause a fire. Next time you get gasoline, look up. See a those pipes and tanks? Most times those are Co2 fire extinguisher systems.

An overabundance of Co2 can suffocate. Not cause a fire.

I agree with the above posts. Get your grow dialed in before adding Co2, if not your wasting time and money.

 

You are correct, CO2 is fire retardant, but only in concentrations FAR higher than 2000ppms. Essentially CO2 can displace the oxygen long enough to snuff of a blaze, but only if the concentration is much higher than the air, if I had to guess, I'd say at least 30,000ppms, that's the level that kills most life if sustained for 15-20 minutes.

[I wood]

caffine for all, you misunderstood my point. I have no concern buying co2, but going in and out of a building populated with a hundred other people. My business does not require co2. Being figured out could lead to being ripped off or legal hassle. I was not clear on that.

[CaffeineForAll]

caffine for all, you misunderstood my point. I have no concern buying co2, but going in and out of a building populated with a hundred other people. My business does not require co2. Being figured out could lead to being ripped off or legal hassle. I was not clear on that.

 

Not sure where you were getting your CO2 but all three of the AirGas I have been to had at most 5 employees at any one time, and maybe one other customer. Again, no exposure is still safer than a little exposure. If you want good CO2 results, go with a burner or tank, or just spend 12 hours a day in your grow room

[I wood]

Not sure where you were getting your CO2 but all three of the AirGas I have been to had at most 5 employees at any one time, and maybe one other customer. Again, no exposure is still safer than a little exposure. If you want good CO2 results, go with a burner or tank, or just spend 12 hours a day in your grow room

Again, it seems I was unclear.

I do not want people in my building to figure out what I am doing.

No matter how safe airgas is, I need to get the tanks in and out of the building I rent space in.

Again I am not against tanks, just can use them at this time.

My original post was to offer a cheap way to see the rusults possible with added co2, without large cash outlay.

If you want to talk about good co2 results, .4 to .5 gpw every 30 days 100 % organic.

Thank you very much for your OPINION,I am happy with my results.

I think we should stop derailing this tread now.

Happy growing,

R

[CaffeineForAll]

Again, it seems I was unclear.

I do not want people in my building to figure out what I am doing.

No matter how safe airgas is, I need to get the tanks in and out of the building I rent space in.

Again I am not against tanks, just can use them at this time.

My original post was to offer a cheap way to see the rusults possible with added co2, without large cash outlay.

If you want to talk about good co2 results, .4 to .5 gpw every 30 days 100 % organic.

Thank you very much for your OPINION,I am happy with my results.

I think we should stop derailing this tread now.

Happy growing,

R

 

Thanks for clearing that up. It was a bit unclear on your security issues. I see your point now. I was wrong in my understanding of your issue.

 

Its not an OPINION its SCIENCE. What is OPINION is my preference for tanks over burners. Tanks over brewers/dry ice is just FACTS.

 

Great job on .5GPW Organic w/CO2

 

I sure don't get any where NEAR that

 

If you really want to make peace you don't raise a flag on a pike.

[pergamum362]

I used a trash bag with the #20 tanks..the tank fits in it.my #50 doesnt but we moved and have a large privacy fence now..lol i wouldnt be in and out with a tank either..sounds like your in an apt..def a no no...but yes..this thread has all the info it needs to have..should be locked now.