Pretrial

[+Malamute]

There was no doctors recommendation prior to arrest. I believe cbenton has stated that several times.

 

Zero protection under medical marijuana law right?

 

7411 is a decent choice. I always recommend that a person does exactly what is best for them and their family. Don;t listen to others and fight to be ahero or something; do what is RIGHT for you, your family and your circumstance.

 

6 months is nothing. Take it and run and flip off the Judge on your way out the door 6 months from now when he releases you. :-)

[peanutbutter]

He had documentation from another state.

 

He didn't have documentation from Michigan at the time of incident.

 

Is this a good outcome if he is innocent?

Edited December 7, 2012 by peanutbutter

[Restorium2]

I never claimed to have paperwork before hand or that I was a medical marijuana patient in court or on the record, I just finally got it today, thats why I asked would they potentially throw it out because I AM a medical marijuana patient? My other question is why am I not given the right to invoke the 6th amendment, the right to an attorney of my choice, being said a public defender?

Edited December 7, 2012 by Restorium2

[CaveatLector]

This judge and PA deprived this defendant of council for a jailable offense.

Hey peanut, how about you stop trying to rub salt in his wounds??? When Dr Bob used to post here you constantly made remarks such as, "oh now you're a Dr AND a lawyer?" You're a good one for chiding individuals about things that you, yourself, engage in regularly.

 

"Jailable offense" is NOT the issue here. Whether the judge would jail the defendant IS. I thought you understood that since it was YOU whom first posted about this concept to the OP. So let's get this straight--it doesn't matter if the offense is jailable (possible jail time could be sentenced based on the punishment as prescribed by law). What matters is whether the judge will order jail. So when a judge reviews applications for a court-appointed atty s/he will often deny based on the charge because he knows in his mind that he won't sentence such a defendant to jail. Okay, so if you are denied based on that fact then you KNOW you aren't going to jail. If you plead, or are found guilty, and the judge orders a presentence report/investigation and there is something in there that makes the judge WANT to jail you for this offense then the judge must allow you to withdraw the plea (or set aside the conviction if you were tried) and appoint you an attorney (if you otherwise qualify) and start the process over again. But for the most part a judge knows that, for a particular type of charge, he won't sentence you to jail.

 

Now, with all that said, you need to understand that the application for a court-appted atty is between the defendant and the court and the prosecutor has NOTHING to do with it. Therefore, the prosecutor doesn't necessarily even know that you applied. So if the prosecutor tells you that this is a 93 day misdemeanor and that you could get jail time if convicted then it is up to you to know that the judge already indicated he won't order jail. Suggesting that there is some sort of collusion between the judge and prosecutor is insane. A typical court may have 30 pretrials scheduled for the morning of a pretrial day. It is very busy. You're one chicken in the coop and I assure you that nobody cares about railroading a misdemeanor defendant. These types of cases are assembly-line justice. The prosecutor wants to close the case and keep things moving along. They aren't out to GET you.

[peanutbutter]

Please review.

 

This patient had out of state paperwork. The Michigan paperwork was what he didn't have.

 

Duress was applied to gain a guilty verdict. Specifically the threat of jail.

 

As CL pointed out, if this defendant objects, he will go to jail.

 

Now as a person on probation. Then as a result of higher charges.

 

His denial of council was based on his not being charged with a jailable offense.

 

As CL pointed out, the judge had already determined his sentence before any hearing was concluded. As long as the defendant played ball, plead guilty, the charge wouldn't qualify for a court appointed attorney.

 

Otherwise he was going to jail.

Edited December 7, 2012 by peanutbutter

[HEMP4LIFE]

i think that you have coved it back before our case i never every heard of appealing someones case after the judge dismisses a case

 

When i took a plea deal for posseion back in may the judge made it clear if you accept this plea deal you have no recourse and cannot have your attorney appeal or repsent you for the case.

the judge made it clear i understood this and i accepted the disturbing the peace plea deal

[CaveatLector]

Please review.

 

This patient had out of state paperwork. The Michigan paperwork was what he didn't have.

 

Duress was applied to gain a guilty verdict. Specifically the threat of jail.

 

As CL pointed out, if this defendant objects, he will go to jail.

 

Now as a person on probation. Then as a result of higher charges.

 

His denial of council was based on his not being charged with a jailable offense.

 

As CL pointed out, the judge had already determined his sentence before any hearing was concluded. As long as the defendant played ball, plead guilty, the charge wouldn't qualify for a court appointed attorney.

 

Otherwise he was going to jail.

 

Don't be so XXXX fricking obtuse!!!!!!!!!!! What is wrong with you? If you're high right now maybe you should wait until you're clear thinking before you post. I did NOT point out that if defendant objects then he will go to jail. WTF does that even mean? Objects to what?

 

I did NOT point out that the judge predetermined his sentence. Stop being so fricking obtuse. I swear, sometimes it's like talking to a 5 year-old. What I DID point out is that the judge narrowed the field of possible sentences. In other words he took jail time OUT OF THE EQUATION! Do you get that????? Do you also get that the defendant could go to trial and be found guilty and STILL NOT GET JAIL TIME SINCE HE WAS DISALLOWED A COURT-APPOINTED ATTORNEY!

 

Peanut, stop mincing my words AND putting words in my mouth. That's a really sick thing to do.

Edited December 7, 2012 by CaveatLector
removed personally offensive mispelled swearword that the filter missed.

[CaveatLector]

 

whats funny is that, in jail, you would have access to your prescription opiods whenever.

and even be able to get illegal marijuana without being drug tested.

 

hilarious.

You DON'T have access to marijuana while in jail.

[peanutbutter]

Don't be so XXXX fricking obtuse!!!!!!!!!!! What is wrong with you? If you're high right now maybe you should wait until you're clear thinking before you post. I did NOT point out that is defendant objects then he will go to jail. WTF does that even mean? Objects to what?

 

I did NOT point out that the judge predetermined his sentence. Stop being so fricking obtuse. I swear, sometimes it's like talking to a 5 year-old. What I DID point out is that the judge narrowed the field of possible sentences. In other words he took jail time OUT OF THE EQUATION! Do you get that????? Do you also get that the defendant could go to trial and be found guilty and STILL NOT GET JAIL TIME SINCE HE WAS DISALLOWED A COURT-APPOINTED ATTORNEY!

 

Peanut, stop mincing my words AND putting words in my mouth. That's a really sick thing to do.

 

The potential for going to jail only applied if he didn't plead guilty.

 

If he was innocent he qualified for jail.

Edited December 7, 2012 by mibrains
removed swear word the filter missed

[CaveatLector]

The potential for going to jail only applied if he didn't plead guilty.

 

If he was innocent he qualified for jail.

What kind of bassakwards statement is that???? He didn't have to plead guilty. How are you not getting that??? He could have entered a plea of innocent and went to trial and even if he was FOUND guilty he COULDN'T GO TO JAIL! If he qualified financially for a court-appointed atty and was not given one then HE COULDN'T GO TO JAIL!!! What part of that are you NOT understanding? It's a relatively simple concept!

[peanutbutter]

What kind of bassakwards statement is that???? He didn't have to plead guilty. How are you not getting that??? He could have entered a plea of innocent and went to trial and even if he was FOUND guilty he COULDN'T GO TO JAIL! If he qualified financially for a court-appointed atty and was not given one then HE COULDN'T GO TO JAIL!!! What part of that are you NOT understanding? It's a relatively simple concept!

 

He was told that if he plead innocent they would elevate the charges.

 

THAT is backwards. AND avoids handing him a attorney. A pretext to avoid the defendant having proper representation.

[cbenton]

If I may interject here;

I was told I had the option of pleading guilty and taking the 7411 and standing with the charge of Use of Marijuana (a given misdemeanor punishable by 93 days in jail and/or a $100 fine) or continuing with my not guilty plea and having my charges raised to possession of marijuana with intent to distribute (a felony punishable 2 years in jail and a $2000 fine). I was disappointed by the police and prosecutor because there was no way with the amount we had, that we could distribute to anyone.

 

In order to avoid the felony charge which I would have been a guaranteed loss, even with a jury of my peers, I accepted the offer of "guilt" to obtain the 7411 and serve probation. If I chose to continue with my innocence I for sure would have lost my trial and would end up in jail and be screwed the rest of my life. I wasn't given a chance to consult with legal consul because I can't afford it. The court would had appointed one if I continued to maintain my innocence but I would also have gone to trial and lost and wound up in jail.

Edited December 7, 2012 by cbenton

[mibrains]

that bites...

if we were in WA right now... your case would most likely have been thrown out.

 

once your through the system and off of probation.. see a Michigan licensed doctor and get your certification documents signed and then you have a presentable defense.

 

it sounds to me like i too would probably have taken that deal if i had not had a Michigan licensed doctor able to sign my certification ahead of being caught with cannabis by LEO.

 

keep us informed as to the outcome of your predicament

 

good luck and i am glad you won't have to serve time in a cage or have a felony on your record.

[CaveatLector]

He was told that if he plead innocent they would elevate the charges.

 

THAT is backwards. AND avoids handing him a attorney. A pretext to avoid the defendant having proper representation.

If there was sufficient evidence to support a higher charge then is that not part of the plea bargain? If they could've charged him with a felony to begin with then he was already walking into the pretrial with a gift. So how is that backwards?

 

What you're saying is that evidence supported charging him with a felony (a 4 year felony) but the devious prosecutor decided to charge him with a misdemeanor instead because they knew he would then avoid jail and thus an attorney. So the prosecutor was gaining WHAT by this?

 

He got 7411 which, in and of itself, means he never had another drug conviction. A standard plea agreement would have been to keep it a felony and plead him out with 7411. That puts it in circuit court and likely hits him with, at the very least, 1 year probation but probably 2. The way it was handled he instead was able to plead to a misdemeanor and got off with 6 months probation. How on earth did he NOT benefit from it being charged initially as only a misd?

 

Bottom line is you don't know what the heck you are talking about and yet you persist forward.

 

Lastly, the OP, himself, said that if he went to trial on a felony he would have lost. Seems to me he got off light given the fact that he is avoiding a conviction.

Edited December 7, 2012 by CaveatLector

[peanutbutter]

Yes .. we pions should graciously accept any false accusation leveled against us.

[cbenton]

that bites...

if we were in WA right now... your case would most likely have been thrown out.

 

once your through the system and off of probation.. see a Michigan licensed doctor and get your certification documents signed and then you have a presentable defense.

 

it sounds to me like i too would probably have taken that deal if i had not had a Michigan licensed doctor able to sign my certification ahead of being caught with cannabis by LEO.

 

keep us informed as to the outcome of your predicament

 

good luck and i am glad you won't have to serve time in a cage or have a felony on your record.

 

I already sent in my paperwork, with a M.D. signing the paperwork. I have Crohns disease, Cluster Headaches, and long term balance issues due to breaking the bones in my middle ear. I have to see a pain management therapist because of the surgeries I've undergone. My doctors are located here in Michigan. I have to waive my right to use any prescription pain relievers and medical marijuana during my probation which leaves me with 1 option of using alieve, which has never helped.

[+Malamute]

I bet if you ask Bob if he would to have preferred to take a plea deal for 6 months probation instead of what has happened the last 4 years, he would take it for his family.

 

Do not Judge others for the decisions they make when it comes to this topic. Just because you would fight it to the end, doesnt mean others should or that it is their best option.

 

I hope this 6 months passes by like the wind and your life is normal again and without a possible felony charge.

[CaveatLector]

Yes .. we pions should graciously accept any false accusation leveled against us.

What does that have to do with the discussion? Nothing. You sound like someone's old grandmother being told that one cannot make it to her house for xmas. "Okay, I guess I'm just not worth your time. I guess I'll just sit here BY MYSELF and wither away!!!" Grow up peanut. What does the discussion have to do with false accusations? Nothing. We are arguing concept here not whether accusations were false. Besides which, the OP admitted that he would have lost if he went to trial on a felony.

[cbenton]

I bet if you ask Bob if he would to have preferred to take a plea deal for 6 months probation instead of what has happened the last 4 years, he would take it for his family.

 

Do not Judge others for the decisions they make when it comes to this topic. Just because you would fight it to the end, doesnt mean others should or that it is their best option.

 

I hope this 6 months passes by like the wind and your life is normal again and without a possible felony charge.

 

Thanks, I appreciate it.

 

I understand the concept of fighting, and in this case it just isn't worth it. I fight to win, not to set myself up to loose. Even IF I did win and thats a big IF, I wouldn't be able to afford the lawyer fee's, court costs, trial cost, jury fee's. I'd land in jail for failure to pay, so fighting is a lose-lose situation

Edited December 7, 2012 by cbenton

[+Malamute]

No problem my friend.

 

Always make the best decision for you and your family.

 

Sometimes that is a plea, sometimes it isn't.

Edited December 7, 2012 by Malamute

[peanutbutter]

What does that have to do with the discussion? Nothing. You sound like someone's old grandmother being told that one cannot make it to her house for xmas. "Okay, I guess I'm just not worth your time. I guess I'll just sit here BY MYSELF and wither away!!!" Grow up peanut. What does the discussion have to do with false accusations? Nothing. We are arguing concept here not whether accusations were false. Besides which, the OP admitted that he would have lost if he went to trial on a felony.

 

You're teaching people to plead out, even if they are innocent. Just more efficient that way.

 

Costs less money, that way. True, I suppose.

 

I'm not being critical about what the OP did. I'm being critical about the way the court avoided this defendant having proper representation.

 

The normal process is to offer a lessor charge for the guilty plea. Not the other way around.

Edited December 7, 2012 by peanutbutter

[CaveatLector]

You're teaching people to plead out, even if they are innocent. Just more efficient that way.

 

Costs less money, that way. True, I suppose.

 

I'm not being critical about what the OP did. I'm being critical about the way the court avoided this defendant having proper representation.

 

The normal process is to offer a lessor charge for the guilty plea. Not the other way around.

1. The court did nothing wrong. That's what you are not getting. The court doesn't charge the defendant. The court isn't even aware of evidence against the defendant. The court took the charge issued and analyzed whether the defendant qualified for a court-appted atty. Why are you being so concrete?

 

2. The "normal" process in a plea bargain is to attain something that both sides can live with. A give-and take if you will. That does NOT mean a lesser charge. In many cases the defendant will enter a "Killebrew" plea whereby he pleads to the charge provided the judge doesn't do x, y, or z. Often one of the variables is no upfront jail. Other times it may be something else. Your idea of a "normal" process is normal in your mind but not what is common practice.

 

3. When a defendant qualifies for 7411 oftentimes (most times) the prosecutor will not reduce charges. The offer will be to plead to the charge contingent upon receiving 7411. The REASON the pros. doesn't reduce charges is because the court takes the plea "under advisement." That means the court doesn't accept the plea unless the defendant fails to successfully complete probation. If the defendant successfully completes probation then the charges are dismissed and there is no criminal record for the charge. This type of arrangement allows a defendant to walk free with no conviction BUT a conviction WILL enter if the defendant cannot stay out of trouble (successfully complete probation). For that very reason a prosecutor usually wants a defendant to plead to the charge and the pros. DOESN'T offer a reduced charge. Why? Because that is MORE incentive for the defendant to successfully complete probation because if he doesn't then whamo he is found guilty of the higher charge.

 

Get it yet peanut? The fact that the OP underwent warrant review and the prosecutor only issued on a misdemeanor means that the OP already got a gift. The gift was the misd instead of felony. Then he double-dipped. He also got the opportunity to plead to the misd under 7411. That means if he cannot successfully complete probation he is STILL only hit with a misdemeanor AND he won't get jail time because he wasn't given an atty. Peanut you are operating on a ton of assumptions about the system since you don't get how it works. You just plain don't get it. Take the advice you dispensed to Dr Bob and stop pretending like you are an attorney.

 

As malamute wrote, the OP will likely get through this just fine. Keep your nose clean for 6 months. You can do that, right? If you seriously need painkillers then file a motion to amend terms of probation. Present evidence of your condition and evidence of a doc's treatment plan. Chances are you WILL prevail.

 

p.s. to the OP. If you seriously need some sort of painkillers and cannot handle filing a motion yourself then PM me and I will send you in the right direction.

Edited December 7, 2012 by CaveatLector