Pretrial

[SFC]

Again Bob, you were caught up in the haze of the earliest moments of the law. It sucks but until its over you are stuck on the ride. They no doubt argue you didn't have a card, they questioned your Dr/Pt relationship, etc. In the end you will prevail. Sadly you may be broken by that time.

[Herb Cannabis]

Again Bob, you were caught up in the haze of the earliest moments of the law. It sucks but until its over you are stuck on the ride. They no doubt argue you didn't have a card, they questioned your Dr/Pt relationship, etc. In the end you will prevail. Sadly you may be broken by that time.

 

Just my 2 cents here, first, Bob had his paperwork and according to the Initiated Act 1 of 2008, that is acceptable after 21 days.

 

Second, how can the prosecution question the dr/pt relationship when it is LARA who is responsible for investigating that action. As far as I know (and I may be wrong), LARA checks each application before approving/disapproving the individual for the use of Medicinal Marijuana. Not only that, but what establishes the dr/pt relationship? The number of visits or the fact that you have begun to see the new dr to get your recommendation?

 

Finally, you folks will ultimately prevail and then I hope you go after Oakland County for every last cop car they own. This crap of prosecuting the sick and dying must stop and it is through the courts that it will happen. It is just to bad that it is on our backs to get the job done. Hold your heads high Bob and Torry and all the rest of you that is in the position of change, we shall overcome.

[+Malamute]

Arrested as an error by law enforcement. You shouldn't have been arrested unless you didn't show your card, or they caught you red handed over. They do make 'mistakes' though. And we do have to put up with a certain amount of error among law enforcement. It can happen.

 

Well, there is always this in the law as well they can arrest ya about under Sec. 4:

 

 

"(d) There shall be a presumption that a qualifying patient or primary caregiver is engaged in the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act if the qualifying patient or primary caregiver:

(1) is in possession of a registry identification card; and

(2) is in possession of an amount of marihuana that does not exceed the amount allowed under this act. The presumption may be rebutted by evidence that conduct related to marihuana was not for the purpose of alleviating the qualifying patient's debilitating medical condition or symptoms associated with the debilitating medical condition, in accordance with this act."

 

 

I know we always try to overlook the yucky parts in the Act, but that one is important. They can still arrest you if they feel you are not in "accord with the Act".

 

Anyhow,... no biggie there.

[SFC]

You would have to ask the Oakland county prosecutor those questions Herb. I cannot answer them.

[Highlander]

Well, there is always this in the law as well they can arrest ya about under Sec. 4:

 

 

"(d) There shall be a presumption that a qualifying patient or primary caregiver is engaged in the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act if the qualifying patient or primary caregiver:

(1) is in possession of a registry identification card; and

(2) is in possession of an amount of marihuana that does not exceed the amount allowed under this act. The presumption may be rebutted by evidence that conduct related to marihuana was not for the purpose of alleviating the qualifying patient's debilitating medical condition or symptoms associated with the debilitating medical condition, in accordance with this act."

 

 

I know we always try to overlook the yucky parts in the Act, but that one is important. They can still arrest you if they feel you are not in "accord with the Act".

 

Anyhow,... no biggie there.

 

People routinely forget about or ignore/dismiss the "in accordance with this act" part.

 

"Medical Use" is one thing. "Medical use in accordance with this act" is quite another.

[bobandtorey]

 

 

Just my 2 cents here, first, Bob had his paperwork and according to the Initiated Act 1 of 2008, that is acceptable after 21 days.

 

Second, how can the prosecution question the dr/pt relationship when it is LARA who is responsible for investigating that action. As far as I know (and I may be wrong), LARA checks each application before approving/disapproving the individual for the use of Medicinal Marijuana. Not only that, but what establishes the dr/pt relationship? The number of visits or the fact that you have begun to see the new dr to get your recommendation?

 

Finally, you folks will ultimately prevail and then I hope you go after Oakland County for every last cop car they own. This crap of prosecuting the sick and dying must stop and it is through the courts that it will happen. It is just to bad that it is on our backs to get the job done. Hold your heads high Bob and Torry and all the rest of you that is in the position of change, we shall overcome.

 

Thank you for your support it means a lot to us

[cbenton]

Section 4 didn't apply so I plead to a 7411. The judge said I have to SURRENDER my medical marijuana card and will not qualify for the medical marijuana program upon the agreement of the 7411, I find this disturbing and against my rights as a patient. I have 21 days to appeal the decision so I could use some help because I feel I should appeal this nonsense.

[CaveatLector]

Section 4 didn't apply so I plead to a 7411. The judge said I have to SURRENDER my medical marijuana card and will not qualify for the medical marijuana program upon the agreement of the 7411, I find this disturbing and against my rights as a patient. I have 21 days to appeal the decision so I could use some help because I feel I should appeal this nonsense.

Sounds like he is not going to let you use during probation. He can withhold any rights from you that you would not have if you were in jail. You wouldn't be allowed to use in jail.

 

As for an appeal, you're wasting your time/money. It sounds like you had a plea deal to plead to 7411, probation without conviction.

 

First of all it would be near impossible to appeal if you understood that, as part of the plea deal, you would receive probation. Unless, of course, the plea deal set parameters on the probation itself such as allowing you to use on probation. That seems highly unlikely.

 

Secondly, if you are appealing because you don't like the terms of probation then I suggest you warm yourself up for a stay in the county resort for a while. Because that is the alternative. That, and, of course, you would lose your 7411 status and have a conviction on your record. Doesn't soundlike too smart a move.

[bobandtorey]

Sounds like he is not going to let you use during probation. He can withhold any rights from you that you would not have if you were in jail. You wouldn't be allowed to use in jail.

 

As for an appeal, you're wasting your time/money. It sounds like you had a plea deal to plead to 7411, probation without conviction.

 

First of all it would be near impossible to appeal if you understood that, as part of the plea deal, you would receive probation. Unless, of course, the plea deal set parameters on the probation itself such as allowing you to use on probation. That seems highly unlikely.

 

Secondly, if you are appealing because you don't like the terms of probation then I suggest you warm yourself up for a stay in the county resort for a while. Because that is the alternative. That, and, of course, you would lose your 7411 status and have a conviction on your record. Doesn't soundlike too smart a move.

 

i think that you have coved it back before our case i never every heard of appealing someones case after the judge dismisses a case

[cbenton]

No, it's not just during the duration of my probation. i loose my patient status in the MMMP and will be "banned" from the program. Thats what I don't like. I find it extremely unjust and unconstutional

[CaveatLector]

No, it's not just during the duration of my probation. i loose my patient status in the MMMP and will be "banned" from the program. Thats what I don't like. I find it extremely unjust and unconstutional

That is highly unlikely. You're telling me he wrote that in the judgment and order?

 

Once probation is finished then you're in the clear. How long are you on probation? Keep your nose clean and get through it. If you think you really are "banned" then contact an attorney and you'll likely see otherwise. Contact me after your probation is finished and I'll send you in the right direction.

[cbenton]

That is highly unlikely. You're telling me he wrote that in the judgment and order?

 

Once probation is finished then you're in the clear. How long are you on probation? Keep your nose clean and get through it. If you think you really are "banned" then contact an attorney and you'll likely see otherwise. Contact me after your probation is finished and I'll send you in the right direction.

 

I have 6 months starting today. No alcohol, no drugs (including my prescribed opioid's), and I have to call my PO twice a week.

[Chauncy Gardner]

Does it occur to anyone else here that judges and prosecutors have way too much power or that the power they have is wielded unjustly? It seems that they are able to bring their own biases and beliefs into court with them. This kind of stuff went on in the South way back when (Dukes of Hazard days) but it appears that it is now here in Michigan. Is this due to the stupidity of the electorate as it was down South? The Southerners back in those days could be conned into anything and were taken advantage of quite frequently. Is this the mentality that is taking hold in Michigan? Looks like it could be...

 

 

It is also noteworthy that the Southern states are solid Red - they vote Republican every time. I am going to come right out and say it at the risk of offending some on this board: Anyone who belongs to the 99% and votes Republican is one stupid mutherfukker. You are stupid because you can't see that you are being conned.

Edited December 7, 2012 by Chauncy Gardner

[t-pain]

I have 6 months starting today. No alcohol, no drugs (including my prescribed opioid's), and I have to call my PO twice a week.

 

did you have an attorney when you pled to 7411?

what charges were you facing before a 7411? if i'm reading it correctly, a 7411 would only apply to a posession charge anyways. unless you were way over? did you think a sec8 affirm defense in front of a jury wouldnt be in your favor?

 

as it stands now, i think you better ask a lawyer. the only thing i can think of (by a quick google search) is that your lawyer can file a motion with the judge to have your probation changed. you can also solicit the probation department / prosecutor to get them to agree with your motion.

 

i cant see how a judge would be ok in disallowing your pain medication (opiates). if you file a motion to get that right, it better be with your doctor standing with you 100% with xrays to back it up.

 

as for banning you from being a patient, its true during probation. a judge can do just about anything. for after probation? no. you're clear. well i'm no lawyer, dont take this as legal advice blah blah blah.

[cbenton]

did you have an attorney when you pled to 7411?

what charges were you facing before a 7411? if i'm reading it correctly, a 7411 would only apply to a posession charge anyways. unless you were way over? did you think a sec8 affirm defense in front of a jury wouldnt be in your favor?

 

as it stands now, i think you better ask a lawyer. the only thing i can think of (by a quick google search) is that your lawyer can file a motion with the judge to have your probation changed. you can also solicit the probation department / prosecutor to get them to agree with your motion.

 

i cant see how a judge would be ok in disallowing your pain medication (opiates). if you file a motion to get that right, it better be with your doctor standing with you 100% with xrays to back it up.

 

as for banning you from being a patient, its true during probation. a judge can do just about anything. for after probation? no. you're clear. well i'm no lawyer, dont take this as legal advice blah blah blah.

 

No Lawyer because "I wasn't facing jail time" they wouldn't give me a public defender and I can't afford one. Secondly I was charged with Use of Marijuana and they wanted to up my charges to Possession of Marijuana w/ intent to distibute if I didn't take the 7411. The protections of the MMMA don't "apply" to me because I wasn't a registered patient at the time of being "caught". Despite having a doctors note during my "arrest" I don't qualify because it wasn't the legal Michigan documentation hence forth it can't be used for a defense. I can't have drugs in my system PERIOD during my probation legal prescription or bunny muffin like cocaine it doesn't matter, if it'll show on a tox screen it can't be in my system.

 

If a lawyer would take me up pro-bono I would happily accept but currently I'm just messed sideways either way.

Edited December 7, 2012 by cbenton

[CaveatLector]

Anyone who belongs to the 99% and votes Republican is one stupid mutherfukker.

If you're pro-life then your chances of voting Republican are a lot greater than democrat. How about we don't stand in judgment of people for how they vote and the reasons they vote the way they do? Not many one-issue voters out there.

[CaveatLector]

No Lawyer because "I wasn't facing jail time" they wouldn't give me a public defender and I can't afford one. Secondly I was charged with Use of Marijuana and they wanted to up my charges to Possession of Marijuana if I didn't take the 7411. The protections of the MMMA don't "apply" to me because I wasn't a registered patient at the time of being "caught". Despite having a doctors note during my "arrest" I don't qualify because it wasn't the legal Michigan documentation hence forth it can't be used for a defense. I can't have drugs in my system PERIOD during my probation legal prescription or bunny muffin like cocaine it doesn't matter, if it'll show on a tox screen it can't be in my system.

 

If a lawyer would take me up pro-bono I would happily accept but currently I'm just messed sideways either way.

I guess I'm not clear here. It seems from your prior posts some had the impression that your doc didn't recommend marijuana until after arrest. So which was it? Before or after? If it was before then you could have asserted a section 8 defense. You don't need special forms for that.

[ozzrokk]

Cav is correct if your doctor recommended mmj before your arrest you are SUPPOSED to be able to use a sec 8 defense. The nonesense about you being forever banned from the mmj program is just that. The MMMP does not have anything in it calling for any kind of ban as a patient. If you find out after you get off probation that this is the case then sue the bunny muffin out of them and you WILL WIN....

[t-pain]

well, a doctors rec/note after the mmma passed (2009) and before his arrest would make him able to use section 8 defense.

 

this was found out after a case went to the michigan supreme court.

 

if you got your rec after the mmma , and before you got arrested, then you should contact matt abel or michael komorn, you may have a case and they may help probono...

[cbenton]

A written letter of recommendation by a doctor no longer applies to section 8 or so i was told in my 2 hour argument with the state prosecutor. I don't remember all the BS from earlier because I finally got pissed to the point of taking the 7411 before having my donkey landing in jail. According to the prosecutor, the clerk, and the judge, the only way ANY part of the MMMA protects you, is if you filed with the state of Michigan atleast 20 days prior to being arrested or if you have a letter of recommendation that is signed with a said stated reason(s) why said patient would benefit from it. It was argued that it is "hersay" and "circumstantial" and "Any crackpot doctor from anywhere can write a note or even yourself can write a note and sign it saying you should be allowed to use medical marijuana." Those were his exact words.

 

333.26428

(1) A physician has stated that, in the physician's professional opinion, after having completed a full assessment of the patient's medical history and current medical condition made in the course of a bona fide physician-patient relationship, the patient is likely to receive therapeutic or palliative benefit from the medical use of marihuana to treat or alleviate the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition or symptoms of the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition

 

"Stated" as I was told by the judge only applies if "You had filled out the forms correctly, and filed them 20 days prior to your arrest. A note from the doctor doesn't excuse the charges. The proper filed paperwork does."

 

The assessment above has to be minorly stated as to the reasons why I should benefit from MJ in the note. My own doctor wouldn't fill out and sign the paperwork so I had to wait to see Specialists (yes more than one) to make sure I would "qualify" for the program. Because the assessments were not stated I don't qualify for section 8 and this I have consulted a few Lawyers about who specifically defend marijuana patients. I failed to qualify also on the aspect I never had a "full assessment" until after I saw the specialists (Which was after I was charged) who filled out my paperwork because the medical conditions I have aren't visible by any means, therefore "assessment" in my case has to include definitive evidence from testing of a condition that would benefit from MJ use.

 

Sorry if I sound like a broken record, but there is my entire case in a nutshell...

Edited December 7, 2012 by cbenton

[mibrains]

first i just need to say i am so sorry you are dealing with this situation.

 

as i understand it... a 7411 is only used when a felony charge is rendered.

 

they are a gift.

they are meant as a tool to show when someone who is accused of a felony says..

"i am not really a bad person and i promise i wont ever do it again" they are only available to a first time accused.. and they are only valid so long as you comply to the terms of the probation.

if as you stated yours is only 6 months.. in my humble opinion

DO IT

happily

give up the cannabis for six months for a perfectly clean record.

 

use whatever alternative methods for symptom management u find applicable but a 7411 is a gift. and if they offered it it should allow you a once in a lifetime "pass" against any felony (so long as you comply). no record. no jail. only probation compliance terms...

 

and as you stated only 6 months...

 

i don't know what else to say other than whatever actions got the law enforcement to notice you when the charges were initiated... avoid that behavior at any cost in the future..

 

pay the "tax" and take the 7411.

 

as much as we all want to grand stand. the truth is... it is not a fair game. the odds are stacked very much against the accused. and if they get out a microscope..... they will find a reason to deal a much harsher situation if they can.

 

6 months is a football season

it's nothing.... time wise.. and you most likely will NOT be banned from entering the program in the future again so long as you dont violate the terms and conditions of the arrangement. if you do.. all initial charges may be brought to bear.

 

so the real and heart wrenching question becomes... can you follow their rules for the time they allot? if you are able... i personally would... if you are not able... then your in for one heck of a fight... but you might have some recourse...depending on the way the variables of your conundrum play out.

 

good luck

 

and god bless u.

[peanutbutter]

This first sounds like a run around of the need for the attorney.

 

Charged with use, then told he would risk jail if he didn't take a plea. That was the pretext used to disqualify him from receiving legal representation he actually should have received.

 

Next he may qualify as a visiting patient.

Edited December 7, 2012 by peanutbutter

[t-pain]

ah they did screw you sideways. sorry to hear that.

 

Your case either happened before the supreme court ruled on section 8 protections,

or they lied to you in order for you to plea out. but since your doctor didnt give you a rec, you wouldnt be able to use sec8 anyways. did he give you an OK, but refuse to fill out the paperwork ? if so, you'd be protected, assuming your doctor would vouch for you.

 

6 months isnt too bad, at least you arent in jail. try to file a motion to get back your opiates.

it cant hurt to ask. well , maybe, but if you're in pain right now, it hurts anyways.

 

whats funny is that, in jail, you would have access to your prescription opiods whenever.

and even be able to get illegal marijuana without being drug tested.

 

hilarious.

Edited December 7, 2012 by t-pain

[cbenton]

ah they did screw you sideways. sorry to hear that.

 

Your case either happened before the supreme court ruled on section 8 protections,

or they lied to you in order for you to plea out. but since your doctor didnt give you a rec, you wouldnt be able to use sec8 anyways. did he give you an OK, but refuse to fill out the paperwork ? if so, you'd be protected, assuming your doctor would vouch for you.

 

6 months isnt too bad, at least you arent in jail. try to file a motion to get back your opiates.

it cant hurt to ask. well , maybe, but if you're in pain right now, it hurts anyways.

 

whats funny is that, in jail, you would have access to your prescription opiods whenever.

and even be able to get illegal marijuana without being drug tested.

 

hilarious.

Honestly out of all the things in the world to be scared of, I am terrified of being locked in a cage, I would loose it mentally. I take this opportunity for what it is, a second chance. If the court refuses to provide me an attorney there isn't much I can do in the matter. I don't have the money to sue the court of my 6th amendment right, nor do I want to put myself in the cross-hairs of an extremely already corrupted system, that would be foolish in itself. I wasn't by technicality doing anything illegal at the time nor have I done anything illegal that I have been consciously aware of.

 

I just have one way to look at it, and there really only is one way to look at it: I am yet another political prisoner of the war being waged against marijuana. Another interesting fact EVERYONE on the forum should know also,The decriminalization of marijuana has been repealed in Grand Rapids, MI by the supreme court as is counters state law The state prosecutor mentioned it this morning and I just now remembered it. I believe the legislature is working on a new bill that doesn't conflict with the "States interests".

[peanutbutter]

This judge and PA deprived this defendant of council for a jailable offense.