Starting The Legalization Process Here In Michigan. . .. .

[Celliach]

My point is, if we keep talking about the money that's going to be made, they'll make sure that's how it's set-up and we won't get to grow it in the garden.

[greenbuddha]

My point is, if we keep talking about the money that's going to be made, they'll make sure that's how it's set-up and we won't get to grow it in the garden.

 

 

It doesn't matter WHAT we talk about, they ALREADY KNOW there's money in it.

 

Only someone who's had their head in the sand  would not see what's coming up, AND that there's money in it.

 

WE, the voters and USERS of cannabis have to define what the upcoming recreational use law will be, NOT the politicians that will do whatever they think is in THEIR best interest. 

 

And I'd love to be able to grow it in my garden, but you can bet that if the pols in Lansing write the law, you won't be growing it ANYWHERE! 

[Celliach]

I'm just saying if we use money as a talking point, we can't also ask for unfettered free growing.  

 

"You, the government, can make a bunch of money through sales taxes, but we want to grow it in our gardens so nobody has to buy it if they don't want to."

 

See?  It doesn't really work.

[greenbuddha]

I'm just saying if we use money as a talking point, we can't also ask for unfettered free growing.  

 

"You, the government, can make a bunch of money through sales taxes, but we want to grow it in our gardens so nobody has to buy it if they don't want to."

 

See?  It doesn't really work.

 

 

As an example (only an example) Colorado users can grow 6 plants for personal use without ANY TAXATION, BUT they can also buy cannabis in a 'shop,' which is taxed if they choose to.

 

Why can't we do something similar here in Michigan?

[+Malamute]

Because Michigan is run by republicans and social conservatives.

 

:-)

 

Maybe someday when all these social conservatives finally die off or are too ashamed to appear in public with their backwards and bigoted views.

[Celliach]

Because Michigan is run by republicans and social conservatives.

 

:-)

 

Maybe someday when all these social conservatives finally die off or are too ashamed to appear in public with their backwards and bigoted views.

 

Unfortunately, too true!

[greenbuddha]

Because Michigan is run by republicans and social conservatives.

 

:-)

 

Maybe someday when all these social conservatives finally die off or are too ashamed to appear in public with their backwards and bigoted views.

 

 

Even if it's 'Democrats' that write a recreational use law, it will be in favor of LEO and heavily leaning toward CONTROL of who can grow and who can sell it.

 

And it will be taxed beyond belief.

[+Malamute]

That is why our only reasonable option is a ballot initiative written by someone without ill intent(me).

 

;-)

 

Heh.

[cristinew]

And it should be easy to write and understand  All cannabis legal  All forms  Any Amount,

[+Malamute]

retroactive criminal conviction erasure.

 

;-)

[+Malamute]

Give that man a cigar...

[t-pain]

they will spend all their time saying 'marijuana is still illegal under state law MCL .....' if you just legalize an ounce or only 6 plants.

 

we need to eliminate all prosecutions of marijuana.

 

749,824 arrests in 2012? are you making whoopee kidding?

 

legal like tomatoes, retroactive get out of jail and clean record, no limits, only repealable by another public vote.

[+Malamute]

Because Michigan is run by republicans and social conservatives.

 

:-)

 

Maybe someday when all these social conservatives finally die off or are too ashamed to appear in public with their backwards and bigoted views.

 

 

Just to emphasize what I said:

 

http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/44409-house-and-senate-took-aim-at-struggling-michiganders-on-wednesday-passing-bills-that-require-drug-tests/

 

 

And always remember,... drug testing is about going after marijuana users,... not other drug users.  You can snort an eight ball on Friday, eat 10 oxycontins, shoot a load of heroin  and still pass a drug test on Tuesday.

 

This is about marijuana users who get stuck for 20-30 days of in system detection.

 

 The rarely catch crackheads,... they always catch cannabis users(unless fake urine etc).

[phaquetoo]

Just to emphasize what I said:

 

http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/44409-house-and-senate-took-aim-at-struggling-michiganders-on-wednesday-passing-bills-that-require-drug-tests/

 

 

And always remember,... drug testing is about going after marijuana users,... not other drug users.  You can snort an eight ball on Friday, eat 10 oxycontins, shoot a load of heroin  and still pass a drug test on Tuesday.

 

This is about marijuana users who get stuck for 20-30 days of in system detection.

 

 The rarely catch crackheads,... they always catch cannabis users(unless fake urine etc).

I was a union worker ( I always paid my dues whether I was doing union work or not) I was self employed most of my life, ocasionaly I would go do work for a non union company so they could get a few vynil jobs at places that were only allowed to use union workers, While I was working for them I had my own work going, and I ran it thru their company, It was for my benifit to have the equipment they had, I was getting 1099 from them, I wanted them to put me in their books so they would deduct child support, they made me go do a physical, urine screen and all, I had thc in my urine, they couldnt hire me and pay taxes for me, but they wanted me to stay and be 1099, I left them and went back on my own, I realy didnt need them, a few months later I called my old boss there, to see who they were using for their vynil jobs, they said no one, but they have a few jobs they would like me to do, I told them I would only come back if they put me on the books and paid taxes and child support, my boss said he could do that, I told him You know  what I need to make an hr and who is gonna pee pee for me because I still use mj, he said they dont fire or deny people work for that any longer, only drugs, I was told if they urine screened every one at the company they would have no workers because mj was found in everyones urine lol!

 

I went to work for them for about 13 months. and then I was in the auto accident that disabled me, it was good that I was working for that company at that time, because of my accident and not being able to work, my auto ins payed me loss of wages, and it was way more than I had to claim working for myself,  

 

bottom line is there are alot of companys that hire people with mm in there system, ive worked at 2 hospitals that took urine and blood before they hired me, and I got hired, I never even tried to clean my urine, I figured if they didnt want me to work for them because I used mj I could always just work for myself again. It isnt a pot head people have to worry about stealing or missing work, it is the drug addicts that steal to get their fix, I have never stolen anything to get mj, I always paid my bills before I got my mj, mm and mj users are way more responsible than a drunk or drug addict!

 

Peace

[greenbuddha]

If only six plants are allowed, but growing is still a felony, 7 plants gets you arrested and a court case. And that will happen while big business gets to grow and sell as much as they want to. That is not a legality that helps people.

 

Alright... what IS a legality that helps people in terms of recreational use?

 

Hopefully it's something that is realistically possible to get put into law. But if you're going to say that we should be able to grow unlimited amounts in the backseat of our cars while driving down the road, or something equally as unrealistic, no one, and I mean NO ONE, politician or the average voter is going to go along with it.

 

Also, are you saying that the MEDICAL MARIJUANA LAW that allows only 12 plants is NOT a legality that helps people?    

[greenbuddha]

As another example of why this thinking is flawed, what constitutes probable cause to enter a home under this six-plant scheme? If the police can enter the home based on the smell of marijuana, nothing has been accomplished, and a lot of time, money, and resources have been spent that could have been spent working to make the MMMA work for people.

 

How is this not just another exception-based system that will leave the public health code felonies intact to grind people up when they fall "out of compliance?"

 

It appears that you're saying that the passage of the MMMA was not a good thing because it wasn't perfect in that it didn't prevent rogue LEO from doing something they shouldn't do, like using the smell of marijuana as justifiable cause?

 

And if this is flawed thinking, what is un-flawed thinking?  No pro-cannabis law is going to be perfect...

 

Also it seems that what you are saying is that there is a need for laws that prevent LEO from abusing ANY cannabis law, medical or recreational, to which I certainly agree..

 

As long as there are anti-cannabis groups out there, there are going to be abuses of pro-cannabis law, medical OR recreational.

 

And as many of us have been saying, FEDERAL cannabis laws need to be changed as much as state laws do. 

[greenbuddha]

As another example of why this thinking is flawed, what constitutes probable cause to enter a home under this six-plant scheme? If the police can enter the home based on the smell of marijuana, nothing has been accomplished, and a lot of time, money, and resources have been spent that could have been spent working to make the MMMA work for people.

 

How is this not just another exception-based system that will leave the public health code felonies intact to grind people up when they fall "out of compliance?"

 

 

I'm pretty sure there are no 'health code felonies'.

 

Maybe one of the lawyer types can educate us on that one?

 

And I'm  not sure why a 'health code' should have anything to do with the 'recreational use of cannabis' to begin with?

 

But....

[greenbuddha]

they will spend all their time saying 'marijuana is still illegal under state law MCL .....' if you just legalize an ounce or only 6 plants.

 

we need to eliminate all prosecutions of marijuana.

 

749,824 arrests in 2012? are you making whoopee kidding?

 

legal like tomatoes, retroactive get out of jail and clean record, no limits, only repealable by another public vote.

 

 

Ok, T, you've convinced me. I'm willing to help you get that passed into law.

 

Where do we start???

[greenbuddha]

And it should be easy to write and understand  All cannabis legal  All forms  Any Amount,

 

I agree.

 

Where do I sign up???

[greenleaf]

probably very prescient.  There were a small group of us that said the same when the MMMA was passed.  We were a small voice in the wilderness.  People eventually started to listen.  Most of the people that got involved in the beginning really didn't understand exactly how the law enforcement and legal systems work, and thought they were fully protected and had free rein to do whatever they wanted to with MMJ.  Unfortunately, that isn't true as we now know.  

 

Hopefully, now that we have a better idea of what will come, we can handle the initial legal onslaughts from the other side in a better manner, and before they severely effect us. 

 

I call that, people believing what they want to believe. 

[greenleaf]

As an example (only an example) Colorado users can grow 6 plants for personal use without ANY TAXATION, BUT they can also buy cannabis in a 'shop,' which is taxed if they choose to.

 

Why can't we do something similar here in Michigan?

 

You can.  I think NORML is still working on it. 

 

You need lawyers and intellectual types to figure out the legal relationship and advise on the language.  It's just a costly thing to do, that's getting done around the country.  I'm just a spectator on this.

[Celliach]

NORML hasn't gotten anything done in 30 years except raise money by selling t-shirts.

[greenbuddha]

You can.  I think NORML is still working on it. 

 

You need lawyers and intellectual types to figure out the legal relationship and advise on the language.  It's just a costly thing to do, that's getting done around the country.  I'm just a spectator on this.

 

 

It's more likely that one of the groups like MPP, ASA, DPA, etc. ,are putting a recreational use law together rather than NORML.

 

As far as I know NORML has helped out in the past but they really haven't taken the lead on much.

 

I believe it was MPP that put together Michigan's 'medical' use law.

 

But whoever is putting it together, I'll support it if it 'reasonably' gives individuals the right to use, grow and obtain cannabis, just as I did (and still do) with the 'medical' use law.

 

[Celliach]

Any recreational law in Michigan will most probably resemble the Washington law with no home grows for recreational users.  

[greenbuddha]

Any recreational law in Michigan will most probably resemble the Washington law with no home grows for recreational users.  

 

 

Then WE need to make sure our recreational law DOES include the right to grow at home!

 

Like I said, we can set back and 'watch' it happen, our we can do all we can to have an input on any new law that might begin to take shape.

 

And a 'recreation law' will be coming along, and probably much sooner than most of us think.