Do Caregivers need a place to grow

[Brice]

I am curious to see how many Caregivers in the state of Michigan grow in their homes or garages? That being said, is there a necessity for CareGivers of all sizes (amount of plants they grow) to have an "offsite" location they can go to to grow their plants and take care of all aspects of the planting, growing and curing processes. I am currently in conversation with a Law Firm that specializes in the industry and talking to them about making a storage unit type facility that will allow growers to legally plant, grow, and cure their plants in a safe, secure, controlled environment. 

please give up dates on how your Care Giver operation is going and if this is something you are interested in pursuing?

[Restorium2]

2 hours ago, Brice said:

I am curious to see how many Caregivers in the state of Michigan grow in their homes or garages? That being said, is there a necessity for CareGivers of all sizes (amount of plants they grow) to have an "offsite" location they can go to to grow their plants and takei care of all aspects of the planting, growing and curing processes. I am currently in conversation with LAW FIRM that specializes in the industry and talking to them about making a storage unit type facility that will allow growers to legally plant, grow, and cure their plants in a safe, secure, controlled environment. 

please give up dates on how your Care Giver operation is going and if this is something you are interested in pursuing?

Seems to me you don't understand the rules;

A caregiver can legally collect from up to 5 patients registered with them at the State registry. 

Now you want some of that too? 

From what I have seen there are already people who are doing what you are asking about. Those people are encouraging caregivers to sell beyond their legal 5 patients to pay for this overhead. So basically it's a plan for illegal sales. Seems like if you have a smart attorney they would have pointed this out to you already. 

 

[semicaregiver]

Pretty much what Resto said.  

Growing for 5 patients does not generate the added cash flow to add rent to the mix.  

That said you may have been mislead into thinking that the recently introduced bills in the State legislature might be creating an opportunity to rent a non-residential location to a caregiver.  The bills were designed to eliminate caregivers not create a real estate opportunity.   Current reports suggest the bills are DOA .  If they were to pass, do your homework, virtually no one can afford to be a caregiver at home, let alone in a rental space.

[Kingdiamond]

"Current reports suggest the bills are DOA ."

 

Do you have a link suggesting this have not seen much about these bills which makes me think they are going to  vote on them in the dead of night with nobody having  a chance to counter and challenge them and point out the fact of the horrible effect it will have on both caregivers and patients. .

[Restorium2]

POLITICS

Michigan Lawmakers Approve Bills To Restrict Medical Marijuana Cultivation By Caregivers

Published

 2 weeks ago 

on

 October 26, 2021

By

 Marijuana Moment

 

 

“These big money investors, they have made a power move.”

By Marla R. Miller, Michigan Advance

Several bills that change the state’s 2008 voter-approved Michigan Medical Marijuana Act and caregiver program moved out of committee Tuesday and are headed to the House floor.

House Bills 5300-5302, known as the Michigan Cannabis Safety Act, tighten rules for caregivers related to plant allowances, product testing and where they can grow medical marijuana. The new legislation would create a new specialty medical grower (SMG) license for caregivers that includes a variety of regulations.

The House of Representatives Regulatory Reform Committee approved House Bills 5300-5302 and 5319–5321, with most passing 10-2 and a few members abstaining. The committee adopted last-minute changes to HB 5300 and 5301 before the vote, adding language that allows unlicensed caregivers to serve up to five patients from their primary residence. However, unlicensed caregivers could only grow 24 marijuana plants at their home.

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The package of bills approved by the Regulatory Reform committee include: 

HB 5300: Allows sale to and from licensed specialty medical growers.

HB 5301: Creates a license for a specialty medical grower.

HB 5302: Requires specialty medical growers to use a tracking system.

HB 5319: Exempts the sale of marijuana from a registered primary caregiver or licensed specialty medical grower to a registered qualifying patient from the use tax.

HB 5320: Updates a reference to definition of debilitating medical condition in the public health code.

HB 5321: Exempts the sale of marijuana from a registered primary caregiver or licensed specialty medical grower to a registered qualifying patient from the sales tax.

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Under current law, medical marijuana caregivers must register with the state but don’t need a license. They can have up to five patients and grow 12 plants per patient without many rules on testing, labeling or tracking of their products. Caregivers can cultivate a maximum of 72 plants if they are also a registered medical marijuana patient.

Committee Chair Roger Hauck (R-Union Twp.) briefly addressed the audience regarding the substitutes that were adopted during Tuesday’s hearing. The medical marijuana bills were added to the agenda Monday afternoon after the committee postponed voting on them October 19.

“First off, I want to let you know that we recognize it is critical that Michigan’s patients, including those with cancer and other severe or terminal illnesses, are not separated from their caregivers,” he said.

Hauck assured those in the audience that the committee reviews the testimony submitted by constituents. Caregivers and patients packed the October 5 hearing. Hauck ended the hearing before many in attendance had a chance to speak, and many opposed to the bills returned October 19.

Lawmakers and representatives from Michigan Cannabis Manufacturers Association (MCMA) also testified at the October 5 hearing, citing concerns over the safety of untested medical marijuana grown by caregivers.

Proponents maintain the new laws are designed to ensure all cannabis in Michigan is tested, labeled, tracked and licensed. Others expressed concerns over multiple caregivers setting up grow operations in rural areas as well as residential neighborhoods.

“This helps to ensure patients aren’t separated from their caregivers, while preventing large-scale grow operations from wreaking havoc in our neighborhoods,” Hauck said. “This substitute also maintains the ability for caregivers to utilize the new specialty grower license if they would like to have up to 72 plants and be able to sell their overages.”

Medical caregivers and cannabis activists argue that those who spearheaded Michigan’s grassroots efforts to legalize medical and recreational marijuana are now being pushed out by big cannabis. They counter the bills create excessive regulations for caregivers. Even if caregivers do apply for a specialty medical grower license, the rules make it infeasible to continue with only five patients.

Ryan Bringold, a caregiver from Waterford, organized the September 15 Caregiver Rights Rally at the state Capitol in Lansing and showed up at the Regulatory Reform hearings in October. He maintains caregivers have never had a seat at the table when crafting these proposed laws, and lawmakers have ignored caregivers’ attempts to contact them.

“We will not quit,” he told the Advance. “These big money investors, they have made a power move.”

Bringold is organizing an educational dinner for lawmakers November 9 at Radisson Hotel in Lansing and spent Tuesday afternoon hand-delivering invitations to House lawmakers. He has assembled an educational team to explain the current law, along with the benefits to pediatric patients, veterans, and other chronically ill patients.

“They are not getting the facts,” he said. “We want to tell them the truth and cover every aspect of the law.”

The MCMA represents many of the state’s largest growers, processors and vertically integrated cannabis licensees. All MCMA members are licensed by the Marijuana Regulatory Agency, which would also process, approve and enforce specialty medical grower licenses and related rules. The group, headed up by Republican consultant and lobbyist Stephen Linder, has paid for several studies on Michigan’s cannabis market, illicit sales and voters’ views on testing cannabis, the findings of which were also presented at the October 5 hearing.

MCMA officials have praised the bipartisan legislation, now encouraging the House to pass the legislation without delay.

“We applaud the members of the House Regulatory Reform Committee for taking this major step toward addressing Michigan’s unregulated, unlicensed cannabis market by helping ensure all patients have access to cannabis that is tested, clearly labeled, tracked and licensed,” said Linder in a press release.

The bills will now move to the House floor. Since the bills alter the voter-approved Proposal 1 in 2008, the legislation would require a three-quarters vote of support from both the House and Senate, as well as Gov. Gretchen Whitmer’s (D) signature.

With Tuesday’s last-minute substitutions, the proposed bills authorize unlicensed caregivers to grow for themselves and serve five patients, but caps the plant count at 24 if they grow at home. Caregivers who want to keep their current five patients and 12 plants per patient count would have to apply for the specialty medical grower license.

In addition, the legislation creates new rules for where and how specialty medical growers can cultivate or manufacture medical marijuana. In particular, they must move to an area that is zoned for agricultural or industrial use.

SMGs would have to test, package, track, label and use secure transport for all medical marijuana products. It also requires the sale or transfer of medical marijuana by SMGs be entered into the state’s METRC system.

The law allows only one licensed specialty medical grower to cultivate marijuana at the same location unless local ordinances “explicitly authorize” more than one SMG can grow at the same site. In addition, each SMG must have a separate enclosed, locked facility with a separate entrance and metered utilities.

State Reps. Jim Lilly (R-Park Twp.) and Richard Steenland (D-Roseville) introduced the bills and contend the changes are about patient and consumer safety. The bills also address what caregivers can do with their overages and crack down on Michigan’s unregulated cannabis supply.

The proposed legislation allows licensed specialty medical growers to sell overages to licensed medical marijuana growers, but not directly to medical marijuana provisioning centers or dispensaries.

This story was first published by Michigan Advance.

[semicaregiver]

King,  People I am close to are spearheading the effort to defeat these bills.   To change the MMMA requires a 75% yes vote.  They tell me the MCMA does not have the 75% YES vote from the State House members.  This translates to our side needing at least 28 state legislators vote NO to stop the bills.  If the MCMA had the 75% they would have already held a full House vote. 

The bills must be stopped in the House, they can probably get their 75% in the Senate.  The House vote count at the moment indicates they are no where near the 75%.   The reason for the lack of claiming success, i.e. no links, is the MCMA has very deep pockets and no one knows what they may be plotting to sway the current NO votes.  They can dump millions into their effort.  It is critical that everyone keep the pressure on their legislators to vote NO.

[Restorium2]

In my opinion the pressure should be applied to Gov. Whitmer to realized this only helps money interests and doesn't do anything for the citizens of Michigan. She is the least likely to have been bought off. She is The Decider. 

Edited November 13, 2021 by Restorium2

[Restorium2]

I look for patterns and I see one here. I don't think it's a coincidence that the punishment level goes up for recreational at 24 plants. The same level they are trying to limit caregivers to. And what do these two things have in common? Law enforcement. They have an army of lobbyists. This is an attempt to streamline the limit of any production outside of the state growers. Makes it easy for law enforcement. Anything under 24 plants and they look the other way. They don't have to look at cards or anything. They are lazy when it comes to our rights. So two armies of lobbyists are working together for a common goal, 24 plants max.

[semicaregiver]

At the Governor's level the issue is moot.  If the bills are passed they will be at 75%+, if that happens she can not veto them.

With respect to these proposed changes, I believe LEO is only window dressing.  The issue is the big canna folks (MCRA) oversold their investors and they are looking for someone to blame.  Back when they were raising $ they promoted business plans with revenue coming in at $3K plus per pound wholesale, according to MRA reporting it is currently below $2K/#.    They currently cannot cover their debt.  

The caregivers are not the problem, the problem is they have over built.   You see this happening in Canada with the huge canna companies closing grow ops left and right.   The same is scenario is beginning to play out here in Michigan, more and more licensed grows are coming online and the wholesale price is dropping.  

Getting back to LEO, I watched the hearings online and I did not see the usual support from PAAM, MSP and the sheriffs from SE Michigan.  If I recall correctly they dragged along one sheriff from a rural county and suggested that what he was seeing was rampant across the state.

 

[Kingdiamond]

Blatant money grab .

[semicaregiver]

3 minutes ago, Kingdiamond said:

Blatant money grab .

Exactly!

I find it hard to believe that the caregiver generated black market numbers shown in the Anderson Report  used to justify the change in the law are correct.  I think we can all agree that there are some black market sales being generated by caregivers, but the numbers are more like 5% of what the MCRA are claiming.  The reality is there were black market growers that existed before the MMMA and they still exist today.  There are existing laws for that issue and the proposed laws address a problem that does not exist.

My perception is that the MCRA members only interest is in flipping a business for a huge payout.    If you look at the management teams, they nearly all finance people.   Their goal from day 1 is get the business up and running and flip it.  The problem for them short term is their financial records do not paint a picture that anyone wants to pay a premium for.  

The finance people that put these canna businesses together play fast and loose with numbers.  The idea that they could with a straight face put  $3K+/# wholesale in their business plan illustrates my point.   At the moment they need a positive growth story to sell to a buyer.   This lobbying effort is the story......

"We up and running with great production numbers and, based on the report from one of the top market research firms in Michigan, we strongly believe there is a clear potential to double our sales numbers in the next few years.    To achieve our marketing goals we are working with the Michigan State legislature to crack down on the black market beginning no latter than 2nd quarter, 2022."  

[Restorium2]

Recreational TREES are what's happening. It's killing all the markets. 

You can calculate and complicate and run scenarios all day long.

But what happened is we FREED THE WEED.

People are overgrowing the demand in Michigan like crazy. 

People are a wishin' and a hopin' for the big payday however the world moved on a while ago. 

[Restorium2]

uch bootlegger was George Remus, a well-known lawyer in Chicago who at first defended bootleggers in court and figured almost right away that he would be better off being one. Remus took advantage of the Act’s exemption for the manufacture and sale of alcoholic drinks for “medicinal” reasons. A person was allowed a quart of wine or a pint of whiskey every 10 days if prescribed by a doctor for treatment of an illness. The Volstead law also exempted alcohol used by clergy for sacraments — in order not to violate constitutionally protected religious rights — and undrinkable industrial alcohol. Remus had bought up 14 distilleries in Cincinnati by 1924 and earned a fortune estimated at $50 million from selling liquor supposedly for medicinal use to illegal liquor dealers and speakeasies. But an undercover agent exposed him and Remus received a three-year stretch in prison. Famously, while out of prison in 1927, Remus killed his wife but was acquitted at trial.

After Prohibition’s repeal on December 5, 1933, organized crime, with its top unlawful moneymaking racket gone, was forced to regroup and focus on other things. While some gangsters entered the legal and licensed liquor business, the laws made it harder to earn as much cash and as fast. But all was not lost. There were still the lucrative vice rackets of prostitution and gambling, as well as drug trafficking and labor racketeering. Organized crime had to be more organized, but many former rumrunners still had plenty of money saved from the Prohibition days. Luciano, for one, continued to enjoy the high life as New York’s crime kingpin, living at the luxurious Waldorf Astoria hotel, until his prostitution rackets led to convictions and prison in the mid-1930s. For others, such as Lansky, Siegel, Costello and Dalitz, Las Vegas and its legal casinos awaited, starting in the 1940s.

[Kingdiamond]

On 11/13/2021 at 5:52 PM, Restorium2 said:

Recreational TREES are what's happening. It's killing all the markets. 

You can calculate and complicate and run scenarios all day long.

But what happened is we FREED THE WEED.

People are overgrowing the demand in Michigan like crazy. 

People are a wishin' and a hopin' for the big payday however the world moved on a while ago. 

Someone needs to point that out to our legislators.

 

  Killing the caregiver program will not stop the flow of cannabis  reaching the black market if anything it will create a bigger market for  cheap  weed on the streets from those thousands of patents  losing their caregivers going back to the street corners over the shops  because of pricing.

[Restorium2]

8 hours ago, Kingdiamond said:

Someone needs to point that out to our legislators.

 

  Killing the caregiver program will not stop the flow of cannabis  reaching the black market if anything it will create a bigger market for  cheap  weed on the streets from those thousands of patents  losing their caregivers going back to the street corners over the shops  because of pricing.

Nothing you can do about it. There are no more dams. It's the way it should have been all along. The weed is free so make the 'street corners' safer. 

[Restorium2]

On 11/13/2021 at 1:46 PM, semicaregiver said:

 

Getting back to LEO, I watched the hearings online and I did not see the usual support from PAAM, MSP and the sheriffs from SE Michigan.  If I recall correctly they dragged along one sheriff from a rural county and suggested that what he was seeing was rampant across the state.

 

This right here is the best news of all, if true.

If the cop lobbyists are gone then they realize we are not their cash cows anymore.

Clear sailing ahead. 

All they could find for their gang of thugs was one sorry arse caregiver hatin' sheriff!

[Restorium2]

And don't start with all that 'testing' hogwash. 

I buy all kinds of produce on 'The Street' that is not tested. 

Meijers buys a lot of the vegetables you see there from farmers that don't have it tested. 

Quit with the lying BS.

[Restorium2]

The only things that should be tested are these crazy concoctions. Fake cannabis. 

If you don't know what cannabis looks like then bring someone with you that does. That's the 'testing'.

 

[Mrniceguy00]

True

Edited November 24, 2021 by Mrniceguy00

[Restorium2]

1 hour ago, Mrniceguy00 said:

Been up all night trying to figure out how to pay taxes? Literally what are caregiver supposed to do with there overages if we’re giving the patients free weed and can’t sell to dispensaries? From what I'm getting after all the research is we are licensed to be legally illegally doing business?The numbers for black market cannabis sales that are primarily caregivers don’t add up either. Let’s be honest here we all know a few “licensed” grows that can’t pass the testing that are selling black market weed in heavy quantities also paying growers to grow it for them! The whole program makes no sense at all!!! Im trying to be legal here and just waisting my time and at this point I'm super frustrated & upset!!! 

Already told you that you don't need to pay taxes unless you made a 'killing' off 5 sick people max. I bet you didn't. And I will also bet your 5 patients are not sending your social security number to the IRS. So you are losing sleep because you will not take advice.

What numbers are you reading? 

True (following the rules) caregiving always worked out as very low pay and mostly charity. 

All I can say is that it took you a long time to figure that out. 

Quit worrying about 'the black market' and do your own thing.

"Lets be honest" .....

The honest truth is that there are millions of small grows here now that are producing poundage. 

We freed the weed. No need for patients to hide and buy from caregivers trying to make a profit. 

All anyone has to do is look to their neighbor and get a deal. Or grow their own.

If you are not a grower and not very social then go to the dispensary.

This isn't complicated anymore. 

[Wild Bill]

On 11/13/2021 at 8:28 AM, Restorium2 said:

In my opinion the pressure should be applied to Gov. Whitmer to realized this only helps money interests and doesn't do anything for the citizens of Michigan. She is the least likely to have been bought off. She is The Decider. 

What makes you think Gov. Whitmer doesn't want to help monied interests rather than the common citizens?

 

[Restorium2]

21 minutes ago, Wild Bill said:

What makes you think Gov. Whitmer doesn't want to help monied interests rather than the common citizens?

 

Because she is a decent human.

She vetoed the R's voter grab cheater bill.

She vetoed the Devos private school voucher bill.

She just signed a bill to eliminate tax on women's health products.

If caregivers could make a solid case they are doing the right things for patients then she would help them.