Bubblegrower's Perpetual "Budget Grow" Journal

[Grow Thread]

well, i transplanted those blubonic seedlings from soil to bubbles on saturday afternoon while watching college football. here we are 2.5 days later. no problems ready for grow!!

 

i topwatered probably 8-12 times with 5-10 nutes. (thats why the netpot is dirty this time )

 

there is no need to topwater anymore:

 

 

probably another 5-6 days and they will out-grow the junior high tote. i will let them go as long as possible, but still retrieve the 3" netpot without harming any roots.

[tricloud]

i have male pollen from past plants.... but.........

just depends on what you want really.

 

and breeding is something that takes serious time. i mean serious.

 

i can not imagine how long tricloud/herbanlegends puts into a strain before they actually trade off beans. its awhile for sure.

 

breeding is fun., yes...... but you will have a lot of wasted time/energy/money/electricity/water/nutes along the way.

 

not too mention your plant count.

 

i'm sure that if tricloud hops back in here, he will agree........ regardless of what your patient count is, it is gonna be REAL difficult to run a breeding room of any level and still take care of your patients too.

 

contrary, im not saying DON'T do it........ but trying to breed and maintain a patient grow in the same facility is very difficult without pollinating the patient plants. a second/third facility is best.

 

there is just a lot that goes into breeding. could you be the person to pick a male and a female, breed them, grow one seed and have what you want? sure, you could be that person.

 

and you could win the lottery twice in the same day too.......... in 2 different states

 

there is a lot..... i mean A LOT...... of plants that goes along with breeding a "new" strain.

 

and thats why you will never see me "act proud" about any of my beans that may get out into the public. clones are different.... beans are gold.

 

i do not have the time or materials that tricloud or other "real" breeders have.

 

 

Yes breeding med quality marijuana takes space, time, patience, plant numbers and cash. It's not something that you can do a good job at when you are growing just a small number of plants.

 

I started breeding out of necessity. Back then if you didn't have good seeds for the next season you were screwed. We always made seeds and we knew that we had to sacrifice our best plants for the cause. Best plants is the key phrase, you can't use sub quality breeding parents and expect to get top quality, it's not going to happen.

 

Breeding is really about plant selection and trial and error. We would grow a lot of plants and select a very small population of breeding plants. Then the next season we would do some test plots with our new seeds and hope we had enough proven seeds from the seasons before. This was done outdoors and we lost a lot of work to thieves, cops, critters and sometimes even mold.

 

Outdoors we had the ability to grow large populations, it's a whole different game inside. Space is the first issue you are going to face when breeding. It's not easy containing a male that is opening his flowers and releasing pollen all over the place.

 

Finding a good female to breed with may be difficult in itself but finding top notch males is way tougher. Don't be surprised when you have to toss a batch of seeds and go back to the drawing board. I have lots of seeds that are in envelopes that will never be released because the batch or project failed. It's part of the game and it will happen if you have the necessary ability to scrutinize your own work. In fact it happens more often than success

 

Just recently our Lemon Spice project has been deemed to go back to the drawing board. Before that it was Space Crush, Cindy's Crush and Sour Puss. The Apricot Cush project is panning out very well but still needs plenty more work and plant selection.

 

Every time I visit the Genesee CCC I get asked for Apollolicious seeds. That project has turned up some very interesting plants but I personally needed to grow her out myself before making and releasing a fresh batch of seeds. Testing those seeds before releasing is time consuming and sometimes costly. The Space Crush and Cindy's Crush seeds produced a high percentage of hermaphrodite plants. Some of the plants produced were rock solid and have never hermied but the seeds could not be released because they aren't stable enough. I find myself going back to the drawing board quite often and it's costly. I can't ask most folks to test questionable seeds and testing tricky crosses like Space Crush that have known hermie issues can only be done by myself. I can't afford to have one person saying they tested my seeds and they are crap. This is a teeny niche micro community and reputation means everything. I'm still trying to build mine but once I do I will never jeopardize it by releasing untested or less than top quality seeds.

 

I'm sure breeding looks and sounds like fun to many growers, I share that same interest. It can be fun and sometimes rewarding but also time consuming and demanding. Breeding is something that you want to grow into. Get a complete handle on growing marijuana first and become "in tune" with the plant before you start breeding. You want to create something to be proud of and that our micro community can be proud of.

 

I look forward to seeing local quality competition like HerbanLegends and Black Creek. I hope to see a future Michigan with educated breeders producing Top Shelf seeds.

 

Once you get the feel for growing and have reasons to cross this very special plant to that very special plant and have some kind of game plan, then start thinking about making seeds. Once you have a reputation for growing Top Shelf meds and do start a project you might be able to find other growers to help you grow out "test" seeds to go on that mad pheno hunt for the next round of the project .

[sfldg]

Well well well. I read your how to page from start to finish, and I just finished reading this whole journal!

 

I am going to start growing my own meds shortly, once I get word that my m/o has been cashed by the state. I know I want to setup my system just like yours and I have a couple of questions.

 

I know you recomend doing the totes. If I have 3 10 gallon totes with 2 plants in each, do i need a bigger res? Or will a 4th 10 gallon tote do its job? I know i will be filling the res with water / nutes, do i have to change the res in this type of system? I assume i will be following a schedule such as the lucas method and what not, but i just want to get a feel of how the daily routine will be. Fill up the res to the Line so all totes have enough water... Then let that go on for how long?

 

I like your 12 bucket system, but from your posts it seems like if I have room to work with totes its better using those.

 

My main thing im not grasping really is how to do the nutes, when to switch the res if i even have to do it, and flushing correctly.

 

Also on the flip side, i know i will be doing the full 12 limit once i get a hold of things.

 

If you were to recomend what to purchase for lighting, both flower and veg, what would you advise me to get? Budget isnt really a issue, as my friend owns an electrical wholesale lol

 

I know I need the totes / or buckets and the air pumps / water pumps / fittings to create that.

 

I would need lighting.. Fans.... Co2 im not really confident with yet.. an exhaust fan / filter... and various other meters im sure lol

 

sorry for the long post, just trying to figure out whats best for me when im starting out. Id rather spend the $ beforehand so i get it right, then being cheap and waiting till i see a messed up result and then spending my money

[Rob420]

Looking great, Bubblegrower!!!

[Grow Thread]

Well well well. I read your how to page from start to finish, and I just finished reading this whole journal!

 

I am going to start growing my own meds shortly, once I get word that my m/o has been cashed by the state. I know I want to setup my system just like yours and I have a couple of questions.

 

I know you recomend doing the totes. If I have 3 10 gallon totes with 2 plants in each, do i need a bigger res? Or will a 4th 10 gallon tote do its job? I know i will be filling the res with water / nutes, do i have to change the res in this type of system? I assume i will be following a schedule such as the lucas method and what not, but i just want to get a feel of how the daily routine will be. Fill up the res to the Line so all totes have enough water... Then let that go on for how long?

 

I like your 12 bucket system, but from your posts it seems like if I have room to work with totes its better using those.

 

My main thing im not grasping really is how to do the nutes, when to switch the res if i even have to do it, and flushing correctly.

 

Also on the flip side, i know i will be doing the full 12 limit once i get a hold of things.

 

If you were to recomend what to purchase for lighting, both flower and veg, what would you advise me to get? Budget isnt really a issue, as my friend owns an electrical wholesale lol

 

I know I need the totes / or buckets and the air pumps / water pumps / fittings to create that.

 

I would need lighting.. Fans.... Co2 im not really confident with yet.. an exhaust fan / filter... and various other meters im sure lol

 

sorry for the long post, just trying to figure out whats best for me when im starting out. Id rather spend the $ beforehand so i get it right, then being cheap and waiting till i see a messed up result and then spending my money

 

 

wow, super congrats on all that reading!! i applaud the effort and i KNOW you learned a ton too!

 

yes, a 4th tote works just perfect for the rez/control bucket.

 

yes, you will need to dump everything and start fresh occasionally. this is called a "flush". it helps remove any salt/crap build-up. how often you need to flush depends on your strain and your nutes. with the lucas method, you can get away with 3 flushes. one at the flip to 12/12, on about a month into flower, and then the final flush. for the flushes n the middle of the cycle, i dump the old, refill with clean r.o. water, and leave it alone for 24-48 hours. then i dump that and refill with fhresh nutes/water. the final flush is 7-10 days of just clean water.

 

the big difference between totes and buckets is final plant size. if you are going to be growing bigger plants/wiry sativas, you want to use 5gal buckets. maybe veg in 10gallon totes w/ 2 plants per tote, but then remove the net pot with the plant and set it in a 5gl bucket to flower. if you are going to be growing smaller indica strains, then you can get away with the 10 gallons totes and having 2 plants per tote from beginning to end.

 

i assume you will have 2 different grow rooms?

 

if i had a 12 plant perpetual i would use a couple cfl lights for clones, a 400w MH or 600w MH for veg, and a 1000w HPS for flower.

 

that should help a bit

 

Looking great, Bubblegrower!!!

 

thanks rob!!

[jonh420]

wow, super congrats on all that reading!! i applaud the effort and i KNOW you learned a ton too!

 

yes, a 4th tote works just perfect for the rez/control bucket.

 

yes, you will need to dump everything and start fresh occasionally. this is called a "flush". it helps remove any salt/crap build-up. how often you need to flush depends on your strain and your nutes. with the lucas method, you can get away with 3 flushes. one at the flip to 12/12, on about a month into flower, and then the final flush. for the flushes n the middle of the cycle, i dump the old, refill with clean r.o. water, and leave it alone for 24-48 hours. then i dump that and refill with fhresh nutes/water. the final flush is 7-10 days of just clean water.

 

the big difference between totes and buckets is final plant size. if you are going to be growing bigger plants/wiry sativas, you want to use 5gal buckets. maybe veg in 10gallon totes w/ 2 plants per tote, but then remove the net pot with the plant and set it in a 5gl bucket to flower. if you are going to be growing smaller indica strains, then you can get away with the 10 gallons totes and having 2 plants per tote from beginning to end.

 

i assume you will have 2 different grow rooms?

 

if i had a 12 plant perpetual i would use a couple cfl lights for clones, a 400w MH or 600w MH for veg, and a 1000w HPS for flower.

 

that should help a bit

 

 

 

thanks rob!!

i am using the bubble buckets and they are working great,my question is that i have been using ro water i was getting from a fish store .that was getting old so i bought a under the counter ro filter with a 2 gallon resavour.well i hooked it all up and turned it on and no water will go into the tank .i dont know if i need a booster for the water pressure.i cant figure it out the waste water that runs down the drain is a constant stream when i turn on the ro faucet clean water comes out for a minute and then nothing.the water comming out of the ro faucet reads 15 tds.which is good i just cant get a constant supply of water or my tank to fill.well i am going to try to work on fixing it,but in the mean time can i use my tap water until ui get my ro fixed and running.my tap reads 123.will this work or am i off to the fish store lol?any help on either question would be great .i ordered the ro filter on amazon it is a ktrosys 6 stage ro filter.

[Grow Thread]

i am using the bubble buckets and they are working great,my question is that i have been using ro water i was getting from a fish store .that was getting old so i bought a under the counter ro filter with a 2 gallon resavour.well i hooked it all up and turned it on and no water will go into the tank .i dont know if i need a booster for the water pressure.i cant figure it out the waste water that runs down the drain is a constant stream when i turn on the ro faucet clean water comes out for a minute and then nothing.the water comming out of the ro faucet reads 15 tds.which is good i just cant get a constant supply of water or my tank to fill.well i am going to try to work on fixing it,but in the mean time can i use my tap water until ui get my ro fixed and running.my tap reads 123.will this work or am i off to the fish store lol?any help on either question would be great .i ordered the ro filter on amazon it is a ktrosys 6 stage ro filter.

 

yeah 123ppm isnt horrible by any means. use it for awhile if you have to. just make sure you leave it set out in and open container overnight to let chlorine evaporate.

 

can't help ya on the r.o. problems. never even heard of that brand

[jonh420]

thank u .i have well water is that ok and do i still have to leave it out to get rid of chlorine?can you explain why ro water is best

[Grow Thread]

thank u .i have well water is that ok and do i still have to leave it out to get rid of chlorine?can you explain why ro water is best

 

i would be cautious with well water. mostly because i have never used it.

 

well water is not naturally chlorinated, but many systems incorporate a chlorine injection system. if you arent sure, i would leave it set out to be positive.

 

reverse osmosis water is best because its pure. plain and simple. my r.o. water reads at 003-004ppm. thats not 000ppm, but i do not use a million dollar filter either.

 

anything extra that is in tapwater or any other water will counteract with the nutes and begin to create nute lockout.. if you do not know 100% exactly what is in your water to begin with, you cant really know what you need to add to it to make it perfect for your plants.

 

now if you start with water that has NOTHING in it...... things get much easier

[sfldg]

Hey bubblegrower thanks for the quick reply!

 

I got a few more questions if you dont mind.

 

Care to share how you empty the res? Do you place the water pump in each bucket? or Just in the res and then out to a sink or drain?

 

also what electronics do you use? such as temperture control and what not?

 

Last but not least, i know you mention the lucas method alot, and those two nutes that you use. where can i purchase them? and do i need alot since im going to be running 6 to 12 buckets?

[Grow Thread]

Hey bubblegrower thanks for the quick reply!

 

I got a few more questions if you dont mind.

 

Care to share how you empty the res? Do you place the water pump in each bucket? or Just in the res and then out to a sink or drain?

 

also what electronics do you use? such as temperture control and what not?

 

Last but not least, i know you mention the lucas method alot, and those two nutes that you use. where can i purchase them? and do i need alot since im going to be running 6 to 12 buckets?

 

dont leave im real busy right now.

 

give me 30 mins please. i will have a big answer for you.

[Grow Thread]

Hey bubblegrower thanks for the quick reply!

 

I got a few more questions if you dont mind.

 

Care to share how you empty the res? Do you place the water pump in each bucket? or Just in the res and then out to a sink or drain?

 

also what electronics do you use? such as temperture control and what not?

 

Last but not least, i know you mention the lucas method alot, and those two nutes that you use. where can i purchase them? and do i need alot since im going to be running 6 to 12 buckets?

 

ok quicker than i thought.

 

emptying the totes/buckets.

 

depends on if you have them in a linked system, or just have them in singles. in singles. i just have a clean empty tote/bucket ready to use, then i clean the dirty one i just got and so on.....

 

if you have a bunch linked to a system, its much easier to just throw a pump in the control bucket/tote and pump it wherever you need to.

 

i have a digital thermometer that stays in the control bucket 23/7, but thats not really necessary, because i am running around with my oakton 3-in-1 all day. temp, ph, and ec in one hand held tool.

 

lucas method. the 2 nutes can be bought anywhere,

THE LUCAS METHOD

 

the "Lucas Method" is very simple, cheap, and it obviously works as is evident in the pics in this thread. we only need 2 kinds of nutes. General Hydroponic Flora Micro and General Hydroponic Flora Bloom.

 

 

here is the formula:

 

VEG: 5ml of Micro and 10ml of Bloom per gallon of water. (5-10) IF VEGGING UNDER CFL LIGHTS

VEG: 8ml of Micro and 16ml of Bloom per gallon of water. (8-16) IF VEGGING UNDER HID LAMPS

FLOWER: 8ml Micro and 16ml of bloom per gallon of water. (8-16)

 

 

there are a couple different methods on backfilling whatever the plants drink/what evaporates. i recommend backfilling with full strength nutes/water as needed to maintain the proper water level in the bucket/tote, and then doing two rez changes throughout the cycle. once at the switch to flower, and once after about 3-4 weeks of flower.

 

 

---and here is a "normal" schedule for a plant:

 

seedling/clone/veg 2-4 weeks. 8-16 nutes. 1/2 strength for first few days for seedlings. 5-10 nutes under flourescent lights

when it is time to flip the lights to 12/12 i dump everything and flush. flush=just plain ph'd water for 24-48 hours.

then they get new water after the flush and continue with 8-16 nutes

after a month i try to flush once again

then back to 8-16 nutes

 

 

after 6 weeks of flower, depending on the strain and how much longer it will need to finish, i have to make a decision. i "final flush" for a week minimum so if i am growing a 7-8 week strain i will go into final flush now. if it is a 8-12 week strain i will go back to 8-16 nutes for as long as needed and then into final flush for the last week or so.

 

 

also, another couple freebie tips. when adding the nutes, add the micro to the water first, and then the bloom. NEVER mix the 2 nutes together and then add the combination to water. this WILL promote lock-out.

 

after adding both nutes (separately of course) STIR/SHAKE WELL!! can't say it enough. make sure you have it all mixed up real good. don't rely on your bubbles to do the mixing for you.

 

the flora micro will stain carpet/clothes if not tended to right away

 

assuming you are starting with r.o. water (ph7) the nutes will drop the ph to a perfect 5.5-6.0. i RARELY have to add ph down to maintain proper levels. at any rate, do whatever needs to be done to maintain a 5.5-6.0ph level. and i keep my water temps at 68-70 degrees.

 

also, for 99 cents ANYWHERE in the kitchen department. (target-walmart) this is my best friend. the turkey baster. perfect for measuring nutes out.

 

 

 

here are another couple ways to work with this formula:

 

1. Top off the reservoir daily using a pH corrected water solution as required to maintain full reservoir level. After adding back an amount of water equal to the amount of your reservoir capacity you should change the reservoir and put in fresh solution.

 

2. Top off the reservoir daily using a pH corrected 100% strength nutrient solution as required to maintain full reservoir level. Continue to use this nutrient solution without dumping the tank unless the PPM rises above acceptable levels.

 

Between vegetative and flowering cycles you should dump your nutrients, then flush (possibly with Clearex) to remove salt buildups, then change to the other feeding program. Always shake your GH nutrient bottles before using them!

 

For young plants, just transplanted into the hydro setup, give them 50% strength nutrient mix to prevent overfeeding them while their young. Gradually bring up the mix to full strength as they grow over the next few days or so.

 

The lucas formula is normally intended for use with RO or near 0 PPM water.

 

NOTE: The Lucas formula eliminates the need for Epsom salts to correct (Magnesium) Mg deficiencies in most normal feeding programs recommended by manufacturers. Cannabis needs a lot of Magnesium to thrive.

 

The Flora Micro is providing the Nitrogen and the Magnesium in the proper balance, thus there is no need for the Grow formula and little or no room under the maximum acceptable ppm limit of 1600 @ 0.7 conversion.

 

Calculated EC/TDS levels:

 

EC microsiemen:

0-4-8: 946 µS

0-5-10: 1184 µS

0-8-16: 1894 µS

 

TDS @ 0.5 conversion:

0-4-8 = 473 ppm

0-5-10 = 592 ppm

0-8-16 = 947 ppm

 

TDS @ 0.7 conversion:

0-4-8 = 663 ppm

0-5-10 = 829 ppm

0-8-16 = 1326 ppm

 

Addback Calculator - (For Advanced Users)

 

Say you were running the 0-8-16 formula, at 0.7 conversion with a 22 gallon res. When you first fill it up, your ppm will be around 1330.

 

Now you have been growing for a week, and some of the water has been taken up by the plants, some has evaporated, and now your res is at 947 ppm. You need to get your ppm from 947 to 1330. Here is the equation:

 

((target - current) / target) * 8 ml per gallon * res gallons = Flora Micro (ml) double this figure to get Flora Bloom (ml)

 

Example:

 

((1330 - 947) / 1330) * 8 * 22

(383 / 1330) * 8 * 22

0.3 * 8 * 22 = 53 ml Flora Micro

 

53 ml Flora Micro, double that and you get 106 ml Flora Bloom. So 53 ml Flora Micro and 106 ml Flora Bloom to add back to your 22 gallon res to get you from 947 to 1330.

 

 

One tip - do not pH down this stuff, the hard water micro will drop pH gradually over the next 24 hours, for example I mix up a batch, it is at like 6.2, the next day, its at 5.6-5.8 after running in the system for a while. If I pH downed that to 5.7 before putting it in the system, it ended up as low as 4.8-5.2 by the next day.

 

______________________

 

** major props and many thanks to Lucas. i have spent countless hours reading his charts and study logs. the man is brilliant.

[Grow Thread]

and here's those blubonic plants (and a couple haze x skunk) that got switched from soil to hydro. ready for take off houston.

 

 

 

just slammed a 400w hood down on them:

[Grow Thread]

rockinlespaul and G3LLO.............

 

im gettin' tired of feeding your snotty nosed kids

 

[rockinlespaul]

and here's those blubonic plants (and a couple haze x skunk) that got switched from soil to hydro. ready for take off houston.

 

 

 

just slammed a 400w hood down on them:

 

That right there is a beautiful thing.

[rockinlespaul]

rockinlespaul and G3LLO.............

 

im gettin' tired of feeding your snotty nosed kids

 

 

 

[Grow Thread]

That right there is a beautiful thing.

 

in all honesty.......... and i mean 100% no bullshyt............

 

i am more proud of little things like that, as opposed to human-head-sized-buds.

 

i swear on my dead grandma's grave those things are so dang healthy and minty green. they are literally smiling at me!!

 

ok, gotta stop...... or go find mrs. bg to deal with the tent i just pitched in my pants hahahahaha :sword:

[sfldg]

haha thanks man! If you ever need anything cell phone wise / computer wise

 

im your man

[Grow Thread]

haha thanks man! If you ever need anything cell phone wise / computer wise

 

im your man

 

thanks for the offer!!

 

thanks for watching too

[jonh420]

i would be cautious with well water. mostly because i have never used it.

 

well water is not naturally chlorinated, but many systems incorporate a chlorine injection system. if you arent sure, i would leave it set out to be positive.

 

reverse osmosis water is best because its pure. plain and simple. my r.o. water reads at 003-004ppm. thats not 000ppm, but i do not use a million dollar filter either.

 

anything extra that is in tapwater or any other water will counteract with the nutes and begin to create nute lockout.. if you do not know 100% exactly what is in your water to begin with, you cant really know what you need to add to it to make it perfect for your plants.

 

now if you start with water that has NOTHING in it...... things get much easier

 

 

gl thanks again bubblegrower.i figured out the ro problem also,i need a booster pump my well pressure is to low thanks again

[Grow Thread]

early morning trim party!!

 

the coffee is fresh, the fiskars are clean.

 

sportcenter is on the t.v.

 

[Grow Thread]

the blubonic are looking swell this morning.

 

the three on the left are haze x skunk

 

[Grow Thread]

update on the mission plants.

 

7 b.d., one W.W., and 4 Third Dimension. all doing very very well. just about 1/2 way there i think maybe another 30 days to go or so. the 3D will finish about 10-15 days before the b.d. and the one widow will finish last, just a few more days later.

 

 

these will each be the size of mrs. bg's head in about 20 days

 

[Grow Thread]

woohoo, new batteries for the camera

 

mrs. b.g. comes through again. gotta love that woman.........................................................................once a month

 

a few pics from each little room:

 

 

[rockinlespaul]

Those pics really look great BG!