Dryden Caregiver/patient Being Jailed For Pleading The 5Th

[+greenhouse]

the records were took by Leo and the Dryden place was seen on Fox 2 news

 

yes the Dryden place was padlocked

I have a pic of the sign they (LEO) put up on the front door. Will post it as soon as I can find my transfer adapter...

[Kingdiamond]

Well if my records were stolen by law enforcement and they called me into the police station id deny everything and demand my lawyer let them lock me up ive done time for being an idiot earlier in my life if they want to lock me up for following the law now so be it ill sue .

[+420Atheist]

You can't plead the 5th unless the testimony would incriminate you and subject you to criminal penalties. So a subpoena can force you to court to testify and if you refuse to testify then the judge can hold you in contempt and punish you with jail time. You don't have a constitutional right to an attorney in that situation.

 

Completely wrong. The Supreme Court in Ohio v Reiner in 2001 found that "a witness may have a reasonable fear of prosecution and yet be innocent of any wrongdoing. The privilege serves to protect the innocent who otherwise might be ensnared by ambiguous circumstances."

 

This means you can plead the 5th even if you are not the subject of the investigation and completely innocent of any wrong doing.

 

DO NOT TALK TO COPS. Not under any circumstances.

 

Edited to add this may be different if you have been granted immunity from any prosecution.

[bobandtorey]

got a link?

 

 

http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/23333-officers-caught-on-tape-violating-the-hipaa-law/page__p__205921__fromsearch__1#entry205921

[DenturesLost]

Completely wrong. The Supreme Court in Ohio v Reiner in 2001 found that "a witness may have a reasonable fear of prosecution and yet be innocent of any wrongdoing. The privilege serves to protect the innocent who otherwise might be ensnared by ambiguous circumstances."

 

This means you can plead the 5th even if you are not the subject of the investigation and completely innocent of any wrong doing.

 

DO NOT TALK TO COPS. Not under any circumstances.

 

Edited to add this may be different if you have been granted immunity from any prosecution.

No that's called an exception to the rule which requires the REASONABLENESS standard. You can't take the ruling of the supreme court and apply it willy nilly without looking at the supreme court's reasoning. The court stated, "Although the privilege only extends to those witnesses who have reasonable cause to fear danger from a direct answer and the inquiry on that issue is for the court, rather than the witness alone,..."

 

The witness has to have the requisite reasonable cause to fear danger and it is for the court to decide whether their cause is reasonable. Therefore, if the court refused to allow the witness to plead the 5th then it logically follows that the court decided that the witness did not have reasonable cause. Which takes us back full circle to the witness NOT having a 5th amendment privilege in that case unless the witness' statements would be self-incriminating.

[+420Atheist]

No that's called an exception to the rule which requires the REASONABLENESS standard. You can't take the ruling of the supreme court and apply it willy nilly without looking at the supreme court's reasoning. The court stated, "Although the privilege only extends to those witnesses who have reasonable cause to fear danger from a direct answer and the inquiry on that issue is for the court, rather than the witness alone,..."

 

The witness has to have the requisite reasonable cause to fear danger and it is for the court to decide whether their cause is reasonable. Therefore, if the court refused to allow the witness to plead the 5th then it logically follows that the court decided that the witness did not have reasonable cause. Which takes us back full circle to the witness NOT having a 5th amendment privilege in that case unless the witness' statements would be self-incriminating.

 

I concede. On rereading the opinion you are correct. However in this case don't you believe that the patients could be in the position of fearing self incrimination if they made purchases from the dispensary? I would think in this case it would apply.

[DenturesLost]

I concede. On rereading the opinion you are correct. However in this case don't you believe that the patients could be in the position of fearing self incrimination if they made purchases from the dispensary? I would think in this case it would apply.

Yes, I do agree with you. But I don't know what they were being asked to testify to so I can't be sure.

[Big Daddy 0512]

Dryden Compassionate Care Center of Michigan. Here is what happen today in Lapeer. Approximately, 9 people with subpoena's were ordered to appear at the Lapeer County prosecutors office, consisting of 6 patients and 3 patient/caregiver's. When they showed up for the appointment they first took the patients in one at a time, into an office, which I was told there was, the Prosecuting Attorney, the City Attorney and Officer Parks. As they entered the room, the first thing they were told is they had immunity, when they tried to plead the 5th they were then told they could no longer plead the 5th,since they were given immunity therefore could not be charged, no need for the 5th. The patients all gave their statements.

 

When the first Caregiver went into the room. He was told the same thing regarding immunity. Unlike the patients he still plead the 5th and would not speak that is when he was told "he was pasted the point of needing an Attorney" by the prosecutor. At that time he was taken in front of the Judge, who explained to him that he could not take the 5th and that he would be placed in jail until he did give testimony. He told the Judge that he didn't understand and that he wanted to speak to an Attorney. The court took lunch and when they returned at 2:30pm the Judge granted all three of them a continuance until 9am Wednesday morning with heavy objection/protest from Prosecuting atty Sparrow.

 

The MACC Group (Michigan Association of Compassion Centers) is sending the Razor Law Firm to represent these patient/caregivers when they appear tomorrow morning at the Lapeer prosecuting atty's office. I will be there supporting them as well.

 

As far as what they are looking for is what they can charge the Dryden facility with. They are fishing since the only thing they have been charged with after 3 raids is Public Nuisance,yes PUBLIC NUISANCE!! IMO They are looking pretty bad and they are searching for something more to gain face.

[+RevThad]

Big Daddy,

 

THANKS for the update... my prayers go out to all involved.

[DT61]

Wow, were those who were told you have immunity given a document pertaining to that?

Divide and conquer - do not let it happen to you.

[peanutbutter]

Dryden Compassionate Care Center of Michigan. Here is what happen today in Lapeer. Approximately, 9 people with subpoena's were ordered to appear at the Lapeer County prosecutors office, consisting of 6 patients and 3 patient/caregiver's. When they showed up for the appointment they first took the patients in one at a time, into an office, which I was told there was, the Prosecuting Attorney, the City Attorney and Officer Parks. As they entered the room, the first thing they were told is they had immunity, when they tried to plead the 5th they were then told they could no longer plead the 5th,since they were given immunity therefore could not be charged, no need for the 5th. The patients all gave their statements.

 

When the first Caregiver went into the room. He was told the same thing regarding immunity. Unlike the patients he still plead the 5th and would not speak that is when he was told "he was pasted the point of needing an Attorney" by the prosecutor. At that time he was taken in front of the Judge, who explained to him that he could not take the 5th and that he would be placed in jail until he did give testimony. He told the Judge that he didn't understand and that he wanted to speak to an Attorney. The court took lunch and when they returned at 2:30pm the Judge granted all three of them a continuance until 9am Wednesday morning with heavy objection/protest from Prosecuting atty Sparrow.

 

The MACC Group (Michigan Association of Compassion Centers) is sending the Razor Law Firm to represent these patient/caregivers when they appear tomorrow morning at the Lapeer prosecuting atty's office. I will be there supporting them as well.

 

As far as what they are looking for is what they can charge the Dryden facility with. They are fishing since the only thing they have been charged with after 3 raids is Public Nuisance,yes PUBLIC NUISANCE!! IMO They are looking pretty bad and they are searching for something more to gain face.

 

I hope record confidentiality is brought up. It is possible this judge is attempting to compel a crime to be committed.

[phaquetoo]

dont believe everything you here on these blogs. last week a guy said dryden sheriffs are going door to door arresting patients. when all it was was one guy they arrested.

 

edit by pb: We are much less likely to believe someone that has just two posts. In case you didn't understand, that would be you.

pb

 

 

Radio edit! lmfao!

 

Dont know much about this dryden stuff, other than i heard the dispensary was closed down,

It realy dont surprise me that they are messing with the disp's but the patients?

Well Ive been messed with as a card holder 3 times but got off!

 

I cant realy find anything in the law that allows or does not allow dispensary's! Im sure some one can pointe something out to me that I mite of missed. It seems to be one of the so called grey area's. I realy dont understand where a patient that dont have a c.g is supposed to get their meds, If they dont grow it themselves.

 

I fortunatly am not new to weed! so i dont have a prob getting what I need, But I know there are many newbies who need a c.g or a dispensary in order to get their meds.

 

I would go check out the dispensarys if they were closer to me, I here they are a lil over priced, but id still check it out just for defecates and giggles, I hope they can eventualy have them everywhere!

 

A big Thank You to those who are opening and running them!

 

Peace

FTW

Jim

[bobandtorey]

Thanks for the update if you need me/us for a Rally you know were to find me

 

Right here

 

Peace from the front

[lover-of-the-constitution]

Were there warrants? The term, "due process" comes to mind, isn't that where they say, "you have a right to remain silent, etc., and have the right to an attorney and a phone call?"

 

Sb

SUBPEONA also Miranda was dropped in Michigan quite some time ago i believe and LEO has the right to detain anyone for next to no reason for 72 hrs with or without a phone call.and i know bout the 72hr thing due to personal experience and thats what i was told bye the circuit court judge which of course may have lied to me,but it was still upheld and my counter suit was dismissed.

i would say they better have something juicy or not too far off in the future "they" will be wearing their asses for hats......or maybe they get jail time and can wear someone elses'...he he

[lover-of-the-constitution]

OK my ?'s even without details of what the case is about or how it came about are ,#1 first and foremost where did they get the names and addresses of these cg/pt's(violation #1)

#2 even after the obviously illegal acquisition of this information how can the court in ? possibly justify the need for the personal information of 50 cg/pt's for the sole purpose of 1 court case even if a dispensary is involved.

I am no attorney nor am i legal aid,paralegal or anything of that sort,however if memory serves me right any and all information or evidence acquired through improper or illegal channels is inadmissible in a court of law and is supposed to be immediately dismissed as such.

WTF??????

[peanutbutter]

OK my ?'s even without details of what the case is about or how it came about are ,#1 first and foremost where did they get the names and addresses of these cg/pt's(violation #1)

#2 even after the obviously illegal acquisition of this information how can the court in ? possibly justify the need for the personal information of 50 cg/pt's for the sole purpose of 1 court case even if a dispensary is involved.

I am no attorney nor am i legal aid,paralegal or anything of that sort,however if memory serves me right any and all information or evidence acquired through improper or illegal channels is inadmissible in a court of law and is supposed to be immediately dismissed as such.

WTF??????

 

Welcome to the republic of oakland.

[lover-of-the-constitution]

Ummm .. "You can't plead the 5th unless the testimony would incriminate you and subject you to criminal penalties."

 

I'm thinking that word should be "might" not "would."

i thought the word "may" tend to incriminate you was used??????

not sure a little rusty on this

[Southern Cross]

SUBPEONA also Miranda was dropped in Michigan quite some time ago i believe and LEO has the right to detain anyone for next to no reason for 72 hrs with or without a phone call.and i know bout the 72hr thing due to personal experience and thats what i was told bye the circuit court judge which of course may have lied to me,but it was still upheld and my counter suit was dismissed.

i would say they better have something juicy or not too far off in the future "they" will be wearing their asses for hats......or maybe they get jail time and can wear someone elses'...he he

Miranda is a Federal right. See Miranda v Arizona. Therefore as long as Michigan remains part of the US, or the Supreme Court reverses itself, Miranda warnings are still required if the police want to use your statements against you.