Dryden Caregiver/patient Being Jailed For Pleading The 5Th

[MichiganMedicalMarijuanaMagazine]

The past few days in Dryden have been an interesting turn of events. After having their doors padlocked and being ticketed as a "public nuisance", they have now put 50 subpoena's out for patients and caregivers. They will not let take them plead 5th, talk to an attorney and throwing them in jail. We are here to support everyone involved and they would also appreciate your support. We have a person on site and will keep you updated.

[David1946]

WTF

[+mayorherb]

The past few days in Dryden have been an interesting turn of events. After having their doors padlocked and being ticketed as a "public nuisance", they have now put 50 subpoena's out for patients and caregivers. They will not let take them plead 5th, talk to an attorney and throwing them in jail. We are here to support everyone involved and they would also appreciate your support. We have a person on site and will keep you updated.

going to jail for excersizeing your rights? other judges telling people they cant use medical marijuana(with there cards) as a defense..WHy the hell not? It is there right...Fire that freaking judge emideatly..

[bobandtorey]

The past few days in Dryden have been an interesting turn of events. After having their doors padlocked and being ticketed as a "public nuisance", they have now put 50 subpoena's out for patients and caregivers. They will not let take them plead 5th, talk to an attorney and throwing them in jail. We are here to support everyone involved and they would also appreciate your support. We have a person on site and will keep you updated.

 

does any one think it's because of are COA that came out?

2. what can i do to help?

[+Annnie]

We need more factual information here.. PLEASE keep us posted..

[peanutbutter]

The past few days in Dryden have been an interesting turn of events. After having their doors padlocked and being ticketed as a "public nuisance", they have now put 50 subpoena's out for patients and caregivers. They will not let take them plead 5th, talk to an attorney and throwing them in jail. We are here to support everyone involved and they would also appreciate your support. We have a person on site and will keep you updated.

 

This sounds like evidence of criminal activity, on the part of police.

 

Violations of section 6 (h) (4).

 

This is supposed to earn them time in jail.

 

(4) A person, including an employee or official of the department or another state agency or local unit of government, who discloses confidential information in violation of this act is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 6 months, or a fine of not more than $1, 000.00, or both.

[StonedPlanet]

The past few days in Dryden have been an interesting turn of events. After having their doors padlocked and being ticketed as a "public nuisance", they have now put 50 subpoena's out for patients and caregivers. They will not let take them plead 5th, talk to an attorney and throwing them in jail. We are here to support everyone involved and they would also appreciate your support. We have a person on site and will keep you updated.

This is happening to just 50 random patients and caregivers?

What are they being charged with?

 

Also, if this is actually happening, then why haven't I seen anything about it in the papers or on the news?

 

Do you have a link to your source?

[nkprthrd]

This sounds like evidence of criminal activity, on the part of police.

 

Violations of section 6 (h) (4).

 

This is supposed to earn them time in jail.

 

Problem is, both statements of penalty are "up to" statements. A literal slap on the wrist in a courtroom would be considered a lawful punishment since it is less than 6 months and less than $1,000

[peanutbutter]

Problem is, both statements of penalty are "up to" statements. A literal slap on the wrist in a courtroom would be considered a lawful punishment since it is less than 6 months and less than $1,000

 

No .. the problem is that our government is ignoring this protection in our law.

 

Some of these people should be under arrest for armed robbery, kidnapping, murder and the list goes on and on ..

 

Right from the start .. let's see if we can get this one little part of the law enforced.

 

If they will do that then the other things can be looked at more closely.

 

First things first. Get them to understand that "business as usual" can land them in jail.

[DenturesLost]

The past few days in Dryden have been an interesting turn of events. After having their doors padlocked and being ticketed as a "public nuisance", they have now put 50 subpoena's out for patients and caregivers. They will not let take them plead 5th, talk to an attorney and throwing them in jail. We are here to support everyone involved and they would also appreciate your support. We have a person on site and will keep you updated.

The 5th amendment protection is a protection against self-incrimination. You can't plead the 5th unless the testimony would incriminate you and subject you to criminal penalties. So a subpoena can force you to court to testify and if you refuse to testify then the judge can hold you in contempt and punish you with jail time. You don't have a constitutional right to an attorney in that situation.

[peanutbutter]

The 5th amendment protection is a protection against self-incrimination. You can't plead the 5th unless the testimony would incriminate you and subject you to criminal penalties. So a subpoena can force you to court to testify and if you refuse to testify then the judge can hold you in contempt and punish you with jail time. You don't have a constitutional right to an attorney in that situation.

 

Ummm .. "You can't plead the 5th unless the testimony would incriminate you and subject you to criminal penalties."

 

I'm thinking that word should be "might" not "would."

[peanutbutter]

We don't know yet exactly what these people are being questioned about yet.

 

However, I assume that it has to do with a criminal investigation.

 

Anything that they say could be used against themselves as being involved in the "crime."

[+itssortalegal10]

OK I m not sure I believe this even though I sorta know an employee at the MMMMagazine through e-mail...OK maybe I believe it a little because nothing the cops do in this particular case is surprising..I think what makes me wonder is are they truly that stupid? Do they not understand that their departments lively hood is on the line..I mean screw with a few patients and caregivers and you may get sued and lose a little but to mess around with 50 knowing they will all have lawyers and will all most likely come after you, you gotta know your gonna lose your arse on that one...Guess we will see what happens..

[+Silverblue]

Were there warrants? The term, "due process" comes to mind, isn't that where they say, "you have a right to remain silent, etc., and have the right to an attorney and a phonecall?"

 

Sb

[thanks2]

Though there is no "right" to an attorney, there is a right to have an attorney. Other words the court will not provide one at this point, but you can and should bring your own attorney. This is a common tactic. They can choose to press charges later if the person admits to a crime. I would suggest that any one that can afford an attorney to get their own and those that can not to see if the attorney for the dispensary could be present during questioning.

 

Never talk to any LEO or prosecutor without legal representation, period. They are both trained to befriend you, trick you, entrap you, manipulate you, and twist anything you say. We are back to the system of guilty till proven innocent, which so many people died to free us from.

[MichiganMedicalMarijuanaMagazine]

The past few days in Dryden have been an interesting turn of events. After having their doors padlocked and being ticketed as a "public nuisance", they have now put 50 subpoena's out for patients and caregivers. They will not let take them plead 5th, talk to an attorney and throwing them in jail. We are here to support everyone involved and they would also appreciate your support. We have a person on site and will keep you updated.

 

 

UPDATE: The three that would not testify and stuck to there guns, even if that meant jail! They do have to appear back in court tomorrow at 9am. But at least they can talk to an attorney now. There is talk about a protest tomorrow. Will get back to you with details.

[Oman]

Same Judge, different case... screamed at my attorney in Court because we refused to relinquish any Patient records unless under seal.

 

Please keep us posted on a protest.

 

Oman

[mgfjr]

This is happening to just 50 random patients and caregivers?

What are they being charged with?

 

Also, if this is actually happening, then why haven't I seen anything about it in the papers or on the news?

 

Do you have a link to your source?

[mgfjr]

dont believe everything you here on these blogs. last week a guy said dryden sheriffs are going door to door arresting patients. when all it was was one guy they arrested.

 

edit by pb: We are much less likely to believe someone that has just two posts. In case you didn't understand, that would be you.

pb

[Kingdiamond]

Exactly how were they able to identify anybody where did the access to their records occur?

 

Also whos doors were padlocked a compassion club ?

 

Dispensery?

[bobandtorey]

Exactly how were they able to identify anybody where did the access to their records occur?

 

Also who's doors were padlocked a compassion club ?

 

Dispensary?

 

the records were took by Leo and the Dryden place was seen on Fox 2 news

 

yes the Dryden place was padlocked

[peanutbutter]

I believe all of this activity is the result of a crime being committed.

 

That crime is the violation of confidential MDCH record information.

 

This crime was caught on video and televised.

[Michael Komorn]

From the American Bar Association regarding Grand Jury Proceedings

 

Frequently Asked Questions About the Grand Jury System

What is the purpose of the grand jury?

The primary function of the modern grand jury is to review the evidence presented by the prosecutor and determine whether there is probable cause to return an indictment.

 

The original purpose of the grand jury was to act as a buffer between the king (and his prosecutors) and the citizens. Critics argue that this safeguarding role has been erased, and the grand jury simply acts as a rubber stamp for the prosecutor.

 

Since the role of the grand jury is only to determine probable cause, there is no need for the jury to hear all the evidence, or even conflicting evidence. It is left to the good faith of the prosecutor to present conflicting evidence.

 

In the federal system, the courts have ruled that the grand jury has extraordinary investigative powers that have been developed over the years since the 1950s. This wide, sweeping, almost unrestricted power is the cause of much of the criticism. The power is virtually in complete control of the prosecutor, and is pretty much left to his or her good faith.

 

 

Does every jurisdiction use a grand jury?

The Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution requires a grand jury indictment for federal criminal charges. Only about half the states now use grand juries.

 

 

What is the typical term of a grand jury?

In virtually every federal jurisdiction, there is at least one grand jury sitting every day. Generally, most federal indictments involve grand juries that sit for five days a week for a period of one month. For cases involving complex and long-term investigations (such as those involving organized crime, drug conspiracies or political corruption), "long term" grand juries will be impaneled. Such "long term" grand juries typically sit fewer days each week, and their terms can be extended in six month increments for up to three years. The schedules vary among the states that still have grand juries.

 

 

How are grand jurors selected?

In most jurisdictions, grand jurors are drawn from the same pool of potential jurors as are any other jury panels, and in the same manner. The pool generally consists of names culled from various databases, such as national voter lists, motor vehicle license lists and public utilities lists.

 

 

Does anyone screen grand jurors for biases or other improper factors?

No. Unlike potential jurors in regular trials, grand jurors are not screened for biases or other improper factors.

 

 

How independent is the grand jury?

The grand jury is independent in theory, and although the instructions given to the grand jurors inform them they are to use their judgment, the practical realities of the situation mitigate against it.

 

The grand jury hears only cases brought to it by the prosecutor. The prosecutor decides which witnesses to call. The prosecutor decides which witnesses will receive immunity. The basic questioning is done by the prosecutor on a theory he or she articulates. The grand jury members are generally permitted to ask questions at the end of a witness's testimony. The prosecutor generally decides if he or she has enough evidence to seek an indictment. Occasionally the grand jurors may be asked whether they would like to hear any additional witnesses, but since their job is only to judge what the prosecutor has produced, they rarely ask to do so.

 

The prosecutor drafts the charges and reads them to the grand jury. There is no requirement that the grand jury be read any instructions on the law, and such instructions are rarely given.

 

 

Why are grand jury proceedings secret?

Rule 6(e) of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure provide that the prosecutor, grand jurors, and the grand jury stenographer are prohibited from disclosing what happened before the grand jury, unless ordered to do so in a judicial proceeding. Secrecy was originally designed to protect the grand jurors from improper pressures. The modern justifications are to prevent the escape of people whose indictment may be contemplated, to ensure that the grand jury is free to deliberate without outside pressure, to prevent subornation of perjury or witness tampering prior to a subsequent trial, to encourage people with information about a crime to speak freely, and to protect the innocent accused from disclosure of the fact that he or she was under investigation.

 

 

Why can a grand jury witness talk about his or her testimony?

In the federal courts, the witness is not sworn to secrecy, and may disclose whatever he or she wishes to whomever he or she wishes. The witness exemption was adopted in part because it was thought that requiring witness secrecy was unrealistic and unenforceable, and in part to allow the witness to rebut rumors concerning his or her testimony. There is a basic revulsion in the United States about secret testimony.

 

 

Are there any other exceptions to grand jury secrecy?

At one time, the defendant in a criminal trial was never given access to the grand jury testimony that resulted in the indictment. By the 1980s, in most jurisdictions, if a witness who testified before the grand jury was called to testify at the eventual trial, the defendant was given a copy of that witness's grand jury testimony to use for possible impeachment. Some jurisdictions also give the defendant a list of everyone who testified before the grand jury, and several give the defendant a full transcript of all relevant grand jury testimony. In the federal system, no such list is provided, and the grand jury transcripts of only those persons who testify on behalf of the prosecutor at trial are given to the defendant.

 

Who must testify before a grand jury?

A prosecutor can obtain a subpoena to compel anyone to testify before a grand jury, without showing probable cause and, in most jurisdictions, without even showing that the person subpoenaed is likely to have relevant information. In the federal system the prosecutor is not required to demonstrate any relevance. The person subpoenaed to testify then is compelled to answer questions unless he or she can claim a specific privilege, such as the marital privilege, lawyer/client privilege, or the privilege against self-incrimination.

 

 

Can a lawyer be called to testify about his or her client?

A lawyer might be called; but the lawyer/client privilege shields him or her from being compelled to testify about a conversation with a client unless the conversation related to an ongoing or future crime or fraud of the client.

 

 

Can a lawyer accompany his or her client inside the grand jury room?

In the federal system, a witness cannot have his or her lawyer present in the grand jury room, although witnesses may interrupt their testimony and leave the grand jury room to consult with their lawyer. A few states do allow a lawyer to accompany the witness; some allow the lawyer to advise his or her client, others merely allow the lawyer to observe the proceeding.

 

 

What is a grant of immunity?

A grant of immunity to a grand jury witness overcomes the witness's privilege against self-incrimination, and the witness is then required to testify. The prosecutor is prohibited from using that testimony or leads from it to bring charges against the witness. If a subsequent prosecution is brought, the prosecutor bears the burden of proving that all of its evidence was obtained independent of the immunized testimony. In practice, it is difficult to successfully prosecute someone for criminal activity they discussed in immunized testimony unless the prosecution had a fully prepared case before immunity was granted.

 

Many states grant the witness "transactional immunity," barring prosecution for a transaction discussed in the immunized testimony regardless of whether there are independent sources of evidence.

 

 

Can a witness refuse to appear before the grand jury?

Not without risking being held in contempt of the court that issued the subpoena to compel their testimony.

 

 

What happens if a witness is found in contempt?

A witness who refuses to testify without legal justification will be held in contempt of court, and is subject to incarceration for the remaining term of the grand jury. A witness who testifies falsely may be separately prosecuted for perjury.

 

 

If the grand jury refuses to return an indictment, can the prosecutor come back and try again, or is that barred by double jeopardy?

Double jeopardy does not apply to the grand jury. In practice, however, it is uncommon for a prosecutor, having failed once, to try again without good reason. The Department of Justice requires the prosecutor to obtain permission of the Assistant Attorney General for the Criminal Division to present the case again.

 

 

Can a grand jury target offer evidence of his or her own?

For the most part, the subject of a grand jury investigation has no right to testify unless subpoenaed, nor any right to compel the grand jury to hear certain witnesses or evidence. Often, however, if a target requests an opportunity to testify, he or she will be permitted by the prosecutor to do so but without a grant of immunity.

 

The prosecutor may refuse to present evidence submitted by a target. In federal grand juries, exculpatory evidence need not be presented, although in many states exculpatory evidence must be submitted for the grand jury's consideration. Prosecutors have the right in federal grand juries to introduce hearsay and to otherwise utilize evidence that would not be admissible in a regular trial.

 

 

Is there a judge in the grand jury room when testimony is being taken?

No. Normal rules of evidence do not apply to a grand jury investigation, and a judge is generally needed only to rule on privilege issues or issues relating to contempt.

 

 

What protection does a target have against witnesses lying to the grand jury, or against the use of unconstitutionally obtained evidence?

 

None. The target's only redress is to challenge the evidence at trial. One of the reasons a witness may assert the Fifth Amendment is that he or she does not know if the prosecutor has presented witnesses who have lied. The witness cannot risk testifying contrary to those witnesses, for fear of being charged with perjury if the prosecutor does not believe his or her testimony.

[+greenhouse]

*Edited for grammar corrections

 

 

 

Exactly how were they able to identify anybody where did the access to their records occur?

 

Also whos doors were padlocked a compassion club ?

 

Dispensery?

They're referring to the Dryden Compassionate Care Center of Michigan.

 

Not the Compassion Club, we don't sell cannabis, and do not allow public transfers at our public meetings. If somehoe someone's managed to pull it off at a public meeting, congrats, we didn't catch you lol.

 

We've never been visited by the police, but they're welcome if they want to come and have some questions answered about how their family members, friends or themselves may benefit from medical cannabis. Or just to give us their take on how the law should be regulated. They're all welcome, heck encouraged to attend. We'd love to show hard evidence, as they seem to believe that, of how cannabis can healthily replace many of today's toxic side-effect laden prescription poisons.

LEO, we do not encourage people to do anything whatsoever against the law, quite the opposite actually. We do not want to see any of our meeting attendees, friends, family or neighbors spend one millisecond in jail over a plant.

We are not, as some of you say, hippies, druggies, burnouts and losers. We are humans equal in stature and rights. We demand the same respect that all of God's people deserve. All of us, dammit, you too LEO.

 

Please understand, we're not here to poison your children, to turn them away from higher education in search of the next "joint" or whatever it is you're afraid of. We aren't offering sacrifices up to idols, we aren't burning bibles and flags, we aren't having pot parties and sure as hell are not interested in someone telling us, as free American adults, what is our best choice for a happy healthy life, which we feel you as well as ourselves are entitled to as long as the rights of others are not infringed upon. Can we just agree on this?

 

I understand you cannot respond to this post. Please think of someone close to you, a family member who perhaps has cancer, asthma, high blood pressure, restless leg syndrome, migraines... etc. Are you interested in hearing, or better yet, reading the reports for yourself how cannabis, in it's natural form, has shown to cause cancer cells to apoptize (natural programmed cellular death)?

Don't be perceived as a sheep, we know you're not. WE ALL HAVE SOMEONE TO ANSWER TO. Are you willing to hear their true voice?

[DenturesLost]

From the American Bar Association regarding Grand Jury Proceedings

 

 

What's your point? Is this a grand jury proceeding the OP is referring to? Regardless, where is this taking place? What court/city?

More info please.