Police Using Fake Id

[Southern Cross]

It seems beyond dispute that undercover LEO are using fake ID to gain entry to and purchase medicine from CCs and dispensaries.

Then using the purchases as probable cause for arrest, forfeiture and to confiscate patient records.

 

Is it legal for them to do this? Isn't this some form of entrapment? I've heard of them doing this years ago to purchase alcohol and was wondering if there is any case law that would be on point regarding entrapment.

[Indicat]

they cannot do this it's definitely entrapment.

[Rashore]

I'm no lawyer but... I would have to imagine that if it can be proved the LEO is using fake ID that would be entrapment. I suppose that would mean at a cc or dispensary, every ID checked and recorded at the door with a corresponding record of what that ID got.

Or, a video cameras at the door recording someone checking every ID that came in the door. Make sure there is a sign on the door stating there is active camera action inside, and entering the establishment is giving consent to be recorded.

Not sure how pts and cgs would feel about those options.

[lkline300]

I think they don't care if they lose their case.

 

They are just making the point that it can be done.

 

Their trying to undermine the system that they don't agree with.

 

Don't seem to care if they sacrifice law abiding citizens to do it.... IMO this is the saddest part.

[mizerman]

I think they don't care if they lose their case.

 

They are just making the point that it can be done.

 

Their trying to undermine the system that they don't agree with.

 

Don't seem to care if they sacrifice law abiding citizens to do it.... IMO this is the saddest part.

Just my opinion, but this is one of the many reasons why they will lose these cases in Waterford and Ferndale.

 

The owners of the Waterford dispensary and CC/Restaurant weren't breaking ANY laws and id's were checked of everyone who entered into their establishments.

 

I actually think there is a chance these charges could all be dismissed before a trial even begins!

 

Stay strong. Stay informed.

 

And, from the infamous words of the late North Carlina State basketball coach, Jim Valvano, - "Don't ever give up. Don't ever, ever, ever give up!"

 

 

Mizerman

[+RevThad]

The standard put on a facility or person required to check for identification is that the id be "reasonably realistic". Any activity that is allowed by law with presentation of that identification, is considered legal, and should not be used against the person checking the ID as long as it meets that standard.

 

Obvious examples of not meeting that standard would be an 18 year old presenting an ID that states they are 99. Any club or dispensary that is practicing due diligence and checking registration vs a state ID for every person that enters should be protected from that sort of sting.

 

I am a layman, and the above opinion should be checked with an attorney if you have reason to use it.

[bobandtorey]

I'm no lawyer but... I would have to imagine that if it can be proved the LEO is using fake ID that would be entrapment. I suppose that would mean at a cc or dispensary, every ID checked and recorded at the door with a corresponding record of what that ID got.

Or, a video cameras at the door recording someone checking every ID that came in the door. Make sure there is a sign on the door stating there is active camera action inside, and entering the establishment is giving consent to be recorded.

Not sure how pts and cgs would feel about those options.

 

 

i was at the Ferndale Place and the lady told me that they did have it on tape bot the Leo's took it

[FootFungus]

Does anyone know if entrapment is a federal or state law?

[MacombCountyCaregiver]

Thats why these people must fight these cases to the death. We must win these cases in court!

[+420Atheist]

The problem is I would bet their technique is to coerce a legitimate patients into cooperating. No need to fake any paperwork. And remember the screwed up conservative supreme court decided years ago that as long as police were acting in "good will" (ya right) evidence can be used even if acquired illegally.

[Southern Cross]

The problem is I would bet their technique is to coerce a legitimate patients into cooperating. No need to fake any paperwork. And remember the screwed up conservative supreme court decided years ago that as long as police were acting in "good will" (ya right) evidence can be used even if acquired illegally.

I'm pretty sure the people at the Ferndale dispensary claimed that they checked all ID. And at the recent hearing in Waterford,

"One of those charged, Bryan Vaughan, said he was the doorman of the compassion club and personally “kicked” the officers out of the building on a previous occasion for not having the proper cards and paperwork to attend.

“It will come out in court,” Vaughan said. “They fabricated ID to get in and buy marijuana.”

Vaughan finds it ironic that he was working at the club as a volunteer to meet the community service sentence for having been driving while intoxicated on pain medication for a knee injury.

“It was sanctioned by my probation officer for four weeks,” he said."

 

From The Detroit News: http://www.detnews.com/article/20101008/METRO02/10080375/1409/metro/Hundreds-protest-at-hearing-for-medical-marijuana-defendants#ixzz12CaCTzsv

[DenturesLost]

Entrapment is only an issue if the underlying activity is legal. In other words if the selling/buying of the marijuana is illegal then the method the cops used to get in the door and buy it is not relevant in regard to entrapment. I suspect that the prosecutor will argue that selling to someone who is not associated with you through the MDCH is illegal. If it is illegal then entrapment isn't an issue. We need clear guidance as to whether a dispensary is even legal. That is where Mike Cox should be stepping in but isn't.

[MORE COWBELL]

Entrapment is only an issue if the underlying activity is legal. In other words if the selling/buying of the marijuana is illegal then the method the cops used to get in the door and buy it is not relevant in regard to entrapment. I suspect that the prosecutor will argue that selling to someone who is not associated with you through the MDCH is illegal. If it is illegal then entrapment isn't an issue. We need clear guidance as to whether a dispensary is even legal. That is where Mike Cox should be stepping in but isn't.

 

very well said and to the point-there really is not entrapment any longer(Ronny Raygun Admin changed that with the omnibus drug act of 1989) because the view on the law books is that they are weeding out the criminally culpable/incorrigible the ends justify the means-they are doing it for the children's sake and they view the Michigan Marijuana laws being unconstitutional/illegal so they are interpreting the law or disregarding it altogether-hence if its illegal in their eyes they are justified in doing whatever it takes to shut us down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dutch&Dutchess]

The police are allowed by a Supreme Court decision to lie, forge,steal and even commit assaults while undercover. Murder may be on the table too.

and you thought you lived in a moral tyranny free country. Your tax dollars at work. VOTE NONE OF THE ABOVE

[Wild Bill]

Does anyone know if entrapment is a federal or state law?

ENTRAPMENT

 

A person is 'entrapped' when he is induced or persuaded by law enforcement officers or their agents to commit a crime that he had no previous intent to commit; and the law as a matter of policy forbids conviction in such a case.

 

However, there is no entrapment where a person is ready and willing to break the law and the Government agents merely provide what appears to be a favorable opportunity for the person to commit the crime. For example, it is not entrapment for a Government agent to pretend to be someone else and to offer, either directly or through an informer or other decoy, to engage in an unlawful transaction with the person. So, a person would not be a victim of entrapment if the person was ready, willing and able to commit the crime charged in the indictment whenever opportunity was afforded, and that Government officers or their agents did no more than offer an opportunity.

 

On the other hand, if the evidence leaves a reasonable doubt whether the person had any intent to commit the crime except for inducement or persuasion on the part of some Government officer or agent, then the person is not guilty.

 

In slightly different words: Even though someone may have [sold drugs], as charged by the government, if it was the result of entrapment then he is not guilty. Government agents entrapped him if three things occurred:

 

- First, the idea for committing the crime came from the government agents and not from the person accused of the crime.

 

- Second, the government agents then persuaded or talked the person into committing the crime. Simply giving him the opportunity to commit the crime is not the same as persuading him to commit the crime.

 

- And third, the person was not ready and willing to commit the crime before the government agents spoke with him.

 

On the issue of entrapment the government must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant was not entrapped by government agents.

 

Legal Definition of 'Entrapment'

[Otsego County Caregiver]

Thanks WildBill. From that reading it seems to me like presenting a forged MM ID card is entrapment. Otherwise they never would have gotten medicine, and the intent of the provider was to do a lawful transaction with someone he/she thought was a genuine card carrying patient.

 

It also seems that it's up to the Prosecutor/Cops to prove the defendants weren't entrapped. Hard to prove that when they openly admit using fake documentation.

[Southern Cross]

Thanks WildBill. From that reading it seems to me like presenting a forged MM ID card is entrapment. Otherwise they never would have gotten medicine, and the intent of the provider was to do a lawful transaction with someone he/she thought was a genuine card carrying patient.

 

It also seems that it's up to the Prosecutor/Cops to prove the defendants weren't entrapped. Hard to prove that when they openly admit using fake documentation.

That's how I understand it too. Those charged can argue that their intention was to transfer MMJ only to those covered under the act. They had no intention of committing a crime. They didn't even know they had committed a crime.

 

The only crime seems to be the fake ID.

[AmberTrichomes]

Unfortunatly.. worse yet, they could apply for a card, then as a patient...try to destroy it from the inside.

[Southern Cross]

Entrapment is only an issue if the underlying activity is legal. In other words if the selling/buying of the marijuana is illegal then the method the cops used to get in the door and buy it is not relevant in regard to entrapment. I suspect that the prosecutor will argue that selling to someone who is not associated with you through the MDCH is illegal. If it is illegal then entrapment isn't an issue. We need clear guidance as to whether a dispensary is even legal. That is where Mike Cox should be stepping in but isn't.

Thanks.

 

I think the defense is Section 8. I don't have the relevant part, but Prop 1 says, "Permit registered and unregistered patients and primary caregivers to assert medical reasons for using marijuana as a defense to any prosecution involving marijuana."

 

The defendants had reason to believe that every transfer was to a registered patient. The only crime was the fake ID.

[Otsego County Caregiver]

Unfortunatly.. worse yet, they could apply for a card, then as a patient...try to destroy it from the inside.

 

I don't think they could really do that. There would still have to be forgery involved. They'd have to forge medical documents in order to obtain a recommendation or a doctor's sig or something.

 

If they used real documents to obtain a card and the officer has a legit condition, it CAN'T be an illegal transfer because the officer would have obtained the card in a legal manner.

[LITLJON]

Entrapment is only an issue if the underlying activity is legal. In other words if the selling/buying of the marijuana is illegal then the method the cops used to get in the door and buy it is not relevant in regard to entrapment. I suspect that the prosecutor will argue that selling to someone who is not associated with you through the MDCH is illegal. If it is illegal then entrapment isn't an issue. We need clear guidance as to whether a dispensary is even legal. That is where Mike Cox should be stepping in but isn't.

 

"I suspect that the prosecutor will argue that selling to someone who is not associated with you through the MDCH is illegal."

 

In this statement the association is established just by being registered card holder. IMO

 

That's how I understand it too. Those charged can argue that their intention was to transfer MMJ only to those covered under the act. They had no intention of committing a crime. They didn't even know they had committed a crime.

 

The only crime seems to be the fake ID.

 

What'Southern Cross' said ^^^

[bobandtorey]

I don't think they could really do that. There would still have to be forgery involved. They'd have to forge medical documents in order to obtain a recommendation or a doctor's sig or something.

 

If they used real documents to obtain a card and the officer has a legit condition, it CAN'T be an illegal transfer because the officer would have obtained the card in a legal manner.

 

That is why i am going to try to go to court Nov. 3 and the 4 get their Early standing room only

should be very interesting

[Otsego County Caregiver]

That is why i am going to try to go to court Nov. 3 and the 4 get their Early standing room only

should be very interesting

 

As much as I'd love to be there to support you guys in person, I cannot.

 

I will be there in thought and spirit though. You guys are going to win, I have no doubt.

[bobandtorey]

As much as I'd love to be there to support you guys in person, I cannot.

 

I will be there in thought and spirit though. You guys are going to win, I have no doubt.

 

Thanks for your support but it ant us it's the Ferndale people that are going to court Nov3-4 we may be in court tomorrow but i don't think we will no calls from are Lawyer yet

[Otsego County Caregiver]

Thanks for your support but it ant us it's the Ferndale people that are going to court Nov3-4 we may be in court tomorrow but i don't think we will no calls from are Lawyer yet

 

 

Oh, sorry, my bad.