Fascinating And Frustrating Evening

[LansingAreaCaregiver]

I had a very interesting and frustrating evening last night. Completely by coincidence, I ended up spending several hours one on one with one of Sen. Rick Jones' high level staff. I was in turn fascinated by their confidence in their ability to reshape the MM landscape here in MI, and frustrated by the arguments I heard. A few highlights from the conversation:

 

• They truly believe that the act will be completely repealed and then a new, more tightly regulated MM system will be put in it's place (rather than keeping the existing law and amending it)
• Arguments/counterarguments made:
  • Even the leaders of the Lansing Compassion club and existing dispensary owners says we need tighter regulation
    • My response: Great to limit competition when you already operate a dispensary, especially when you'll be grandfathered in
    • They hadn't considered that

    [*]You can't say that it is appropriate to have medical marijuana dispensaries next door to homeless shelters where people are trying to get their lives back on track

    • My response: There are a helluva lot more folks in that shelter due to problems with alcohol, yet you don't have a problem with Rum Runners operating 2 doors down from the mission. At least with the dispensaries, you have to have a doctor's recommendation.
    • That REALLY caught them off guard

    [*]People voted for this so grandmas with cancer and glaucoma could use it, not everyone with a little pain.

    • I agreed that the certification mills were problematic, but pointed out the critical logical fallacy, that for people taking MM for whatever condition, it isn't a situation of taking marijuana or taking no drug, it is a choice between marijuana and some other drug. That other drug might be an NSAID, opiate, muscle relaxer, etc., Who is Sen. Jones to deicde for these folks which medicine and set of related side effect is is right for them?

    - They hate it when people come into Lansing and see "every other building either vacant or a medical marijuana store."

  -My response, would you rather just see all those buildings vacant?

  [*]The one overall thing I came to realize is how uninterested in listening many folks are. There is much more interest in pushing their viewpoint than finding real solutions to their purported concerns. Definitely an attitude that people didn't know what they were voting for, and it is up to Jones and his crew to take care of us, because they know what's good for us.

Just thought you'all might find this interesting. I think it is important to realize that they see the repeal of the MMMA in its current form not as an "if" but as a "when." Just goes to show how wide the gulf is between these two communities.

[mibrains]

thats scary, but i am not surprised.

 

i know they need a 75%majority, but they could get it with the right political gout being thrown around.

 

it's typical political crap. shove their opinion down my throat. as if they even know me....i have taken a lifetime to develope my particular set of beliefs and they will not change my opinion on cannabis or anything else for that matter. conversely i don't profess to attempt to change theirs. my only goal is for them to leave me alone.

medical, recreational, fun or serious my use of cannabis is my own responsibility, and i don't need to be protected from it. i need merely to be left alone to enjoy the effects from it......period.

government ya had better heed our warning because we are already sick and were getting tired and when that happens there will be a revolution.

[Retta]

"it isn't a situation of taking marijuana or taking no drug, it is a choice between marijuana and some other drug. That other drug might be an NSAID, opiate, muscle relaxer, etc."

 

 

For me it is a situation of marijuana or no drug to treat severe chronic pain and as of late uncontrollable swelling from RA, I am deathly allergic (spent 3 weeks in hospital from reaction) to opiates and codeine, I am also allergic to OTC Tylenol and Ibuprofen. I will not take chemo pills with nsaids because it can cause organ damage. I drive so diliduds, morphine, soma's (coma's) etc. are medications I won't take.

 

My opinion of the Senator's agenda by his own actions and statements is that he is trying to eliminate caregivers and replace them entirely with large 'industrial type' grows and dispensaries. I hope I am wrong, I would hate to see sick and disabled people being forced into medicating with God knows what for the sake of a twisted politician.

[greenbuddha]

Lansing,

 

IMHO, great points.

 

It is points like these that need to be presented to the 'general' public' that support Reps like Jones.

 

Money and votes are what got Jones into 'office'.

 

And it will have to be money and votes that get him 'out' of office.

 

Money may be tight... but 'votes' can be gotten.

 

But I, like many others, fear you were talking to a 'stone wall'.

 

2012 seems far off right now, but it will be here sooner than we think.

 

Thanks.

[imiubu]

"it isn't a situation of taking marijuana or taking no drug, it is a choice between marijuana and some other drug. That other drug might be an NSAID, opiate, muscle relaxer, etc."

 

 

For me it is a situation of marijuana or no drug to treat severe chronic pain and as of late uncontrollable swelling from RA, I am deathly allergic (spent 3 weeks in hospital from reaction) to opiates and codeine, I am also allergic to OTC Tylenol and Ibuprofen. I will not take chemo pills with nsaids because it can cause organ damage. I drive so diliduds, morphine, soma's (coma's) etc. are medications I won't take.

 

My opinion of the Senator's agenda by his own actions and statements is that he is trying to eliminate caregivers and replace them entirely with large 'industrial type' grows and dispensaries. I hope I am wrong, I would hate to see sick and disabled people being forced into medicating with God knows what for the sake of a twisted politician.

 

I'm allergic to so many pharma's + otc's. I get deathly ill also.

 

I've a friend who is a member @ the same Eagles as RJ. When I sent him info on the letter

writing campaign, RJ's bills, etc... He wrote back that RJ" is no friend of mine." He elaborated

further but the gist is that his opinion of Jones on a personal level is very low (would I have friends

that thought any other way!?).

[+420Atheist]

Nice job LAC. Thanks for posting this and giving us a peek into the mind of Jones' delusion. I was pretty sure this was the case all along but now it is a certainty. We can't give any illusion that Jones has the proxy of anyone. I think he is over confident in his ability to overturn our law but I sure don't want to under estimate him like the MACC has.

[AmishRnot4ganja]

I still see the possibility of looser laws happening before further restrictions are imposed. The landscape seems to be changing in favor of more relaxed regulations on marijuana. After all, it has taken 40 years and 1 trillion dollars to arrive at the point we are at now. 60-70% of the general population approves of medical marijuana and just under 50% want it to be legalized and an end brought to the war against it.

 

What is the source of the confidence these people have that they can put punitive restrictions on our medical marijuana? Why do they think it will be easy? Is this just wishful thinking on their part or do they have polls to back up their delusional thoughts?

 

The fact is that it may be no easier (or harder) for a non-medical mj person to get pot now than it was before the MM law. If it is easier, it is also MUCH safer. All attempts to eradicate marijuana from our culture have failed miserably. Every new initiative aimed at getting rid of it has only caused it to be more prevalent. I think the general population has had about enough of the "Marijuana Wars" and are ready to throw in the towel. They seem to universally agree (except for Republicans, right wing conservative Christians, and Nazis) that, after all, "its only pot, and a little pot never hurt anybody".

[peanutbutter]

Thursday several of us went to Lansing and passed out copies of the survey I arranged for MRG to conduct.

 

To all of our elected officials in Lansing.

 

In 2006, the national group MPP (Marijuana Policy Project) paid to have a poll conducted. To properly conduct a strategic political effort requires accurate information. It is counter productive to such efforts to make political plans based on “gut feelings.”

 

MPP contacted MRG (Marketing Resource Group, Inc.) to make an accurate determination as to exactly what percentage of Michigan voters would likely vote in favor of a medical marijuana law. MPP needed accurate information. Not fluff to feel good.

 

At that time, it was determined that 59% of the voters would support the proposed law.

 

Then we began to collect petition signatures. We collected over a half or a million of signatures of registered Michigan voters. What is more, it that our community went out and spoke face to face with nearly a million people in Michigan. This face to face exchange with the voters of Michigan, helped to elevate our voter support. In the spring of 2008, after the petition campaign, MPP again contacted MRG to gather an accurate snap shot of voters in Michigan. That survey showed that voter support had gone from 59% to 67%.

 

Between that spring 2008 survey and the election, our current AG, Bill Schuette, helped to spend nearly a million dollars to urge voters away from our current law. Among other things, he educated voters that the proposed law would allow for the existence of dispensaries. After spending nearly a million dollars to warn the voters about dispensaries, it would be difficult to state the voters had no warning. There are many other things that our AG stated, during that time, about our new law. A list is being compiled. I believe he was being educated and honest with these statements made in 2008. As a result of the efforts of those fighting against the proposed law, the support fell from the 67% to the 63% result in the election.

 

As we move forward we all need to have a clear understanding of the degree to which the voters support medical marijuana within our state. Clear information and not “feel good fluff.”

 

To gather a clear snap shot of voter current voter support, I contacted the very same firm that was used to make the plans that were made in 2006-2008.

 

MRG reports that voter support for this new law is currently 61%. In spite of all of the bad headlines, the raids and the protests the voters still strongly support our community. The voters support our system AS IT IS! There is nothing hypothetical about the current situation. The voters now KNOW exactly the system allowed by this law.

 

I have attached a copy of this latest detailed poll. No fluff, just facts.

 

This survey was paid for by contributions from several individuals, the Michigan Association of Compassion Centers and Michigan NORML.

 

Gershom Avery

 

This was hand carried to the office of every senator and the governor.

 

We met several of the senators face to face.

 

We went to urge them to vote against SB 17.

 

With the rock solid voter data, any time in the future Senator Jones tries to claim the voters no longer want this law, they will realize the man lives in a dream world.

 

A nutjob.

[thanks2]

 

 

A nutjob.

LOL, I guess peanuts are a nut and making butter is a job.

 

That guy must of really got your goat. Don't feed the haters.

[peanutbutter]

LOL, I guess peanuts are a nut and making butter is a job.

 

That guy must of really got your goat. Don't feed the haters.

 

People that think we are the enemy are nuts.

[thanks2]

People that think we are the enemy are nuts.

Yeah, they are. Sorry PB, I thought you were using that as your signature.

[peanutbutter]

Yeah, they are. Sorry PB, I thought you were using that as your signature.

 

LOL

[Croppled1]

I believe we have lost a very key battle to protecting patient's already . Rick Snyder signed a order that made it illegal for any businesses involving marihuana from incorporating in the State of Michigan . I saw it here somewhere earlier I am sorry I lost track of the thread if I find it I will post it all over so people can realize what is happening . The Government is out to injure MM patients in Michigan as part of their policy escalating confrontation not creating a better patient friendly system at every turn fighting change .

 

Now all related business owners , down to individuals who manage it will not be afforded corporate veil protections from personal liability outside the corporate assets . In effect it makes it impossible to do business involving MM in any financially responsible manner . You cannot convince me after seeing this Rick Snyder is impartial like he stated in his campaign promises to the voters . I do not know if the businesses that filed already will be grandfathered in but if so they will be the only ones that can survive in Michigan or will be safe .

 

This legislation would apply to a caregiver , MM travel agency , educational compassion club , patient travel or dating site the way I read it ...any business involving Marihuana ( this is how Michigan State Laws spells it historically in its complied law ) . it is so discriminatory , slanted and wrong accomplishing nothing but making it difficult if not impossible to work within or around the voter initiative . As patients we cant turn back those who would try to be involved in distribution it isn't in our power . We should not have all our needs caught up in the fight regardless of our beliefs about further expansion . We should be able to assemble , and see businesses open that may serve our needs that are needed because were so discriminated within society already we need to unite with similar individuals - it is a basic need . We can't take our medication in public like everyone else ..

 

I can't believe the voters ever intended this and it will have severe spillover costs . I would be very ,very afraid about the decision to release MDCH records . The fines and penalties for breaking the confidentiality law are so low you can be sure opponent's of MM will pay them for effected individuals . It is obvious key people have been put in place now that intend to target any MM patient activities at every opportunity trying to prevent people from participating . When will the population and the majority of legislators in each party see how cruel and out of control Cannabis opponents and their policies and legislation are ? They as the voters have a voice to redirect policy that benefits society instead of continuing a war nobody will or ever has won .

 

The majority of people especially our opponents to MM just do not understand the needs of the chronically sick or injured , take for granted so much . They believe you have to be doing something wrong to suffer without healing in all cases . They cannot comprehend permanent injury with no solution even a proper diagnosis , inability to work nor a long lingering death and its effects on the mind . Many patients know this reality and have dire need for any relief its is so frustrating if you have benefited from MM yet have to face this War's realities every day by seeing the misery and injustice that is now escalating in Michigan causing un- unnecessary fear in the program participants who just want to co-exist with the medicinal benefits in peace the voters gave to them and they need .

 

 

Here is where the link is I was speaking of so others can read and evaluate whether I understood it properly . My veiwer had trouble displaying it well . It is the attachement in this threads openning remarks .

 

 

http://michiganmedic...te-of-michigan/

[+Silverblue]

All my life I've seen unbelievable cruelty and I've also seen karma sock it to them really hard, just when they believed they were sitting comfortably. What comes around, goes around. I HATE politics!

 

Sb