The Brass Tacks On Gun Ownership And Caregiving

[trix]

Yah the gun was legal and registered in the city of Warren..

 

Edit: image removed, sorry

Trix

 

Edit: a side note I was a legal PT at the time I purchased my handgun, less than a month later they came and seized it.

[solabeirtan]

Solid ! Case ! .... Best of Luck, we'll get you through it. Not to worry .... , too much.

 

ps. probably need some copies made of that ! Good Job !

[trix]

I was never a advocate for anything before this law came to front, now I'm all for standing up for our rights to do the things any law abiding citizen should have right to do.

 

Micheal Komorn, started a thread earlier about a woman on Oregon fighting for her gun rights, while a MM PT we need to write and fight this as well..

 

Trix

[trix]

I have copies, and backed up scans and copies or everything.

 

I'm not out to seek revenge on LEO, just to share my knowledge w/ others for their safety when it come down to LEO and guns.. I would think these facts would help people see that there is a HUGE flaw in the law against us.

 

Trix

 

P.S. I thought I'd share this link w/ the forum, its a MSP background search site, $10 to do a full criminal background check on anyone you wish to look up. https://apps.michigan.gov/ICHAT/login.aspx?ReturnUrl=/ICHAT/BackgroundSearch.aspx

[DolomitesDelight]

PS id like to also know more about the truth of the law and how it states about guns n grows n such.. i always say Knowledge is power and the more that is known about ones true rights the better!! for them to say you cant have guns near your grow follows closely under them trying to say they want to abolish our second amendment the right to bear arms so they then can regulate us even further. KNOWING we wont have a way to defend ourselves, our loved ones and what is rightfully ours! NOT THIERS! if they cant have their greedy little pasw into it its no good for anyone! Im not down for it. never have never will. My father as well as any and all of the vets out there did not fight for our freedoms for them to consistently tighten this crap up on us.. they are nitpicking to pave way for their new world order that is on the rise!.. i will never succumb to them telling me i cannot excericse my right to bear arms and i will never let them tell me that i can not excerise my rights to legal grow medicine foreither myself or others if that was the route i chose to do!! We have conformed to their ways since birth being FED what they want us to know not only in society, in media but also in our schools far tooo much for faaar too long.. And its pretty pompass for a handful of illetus predominately pompass white old men to sit back and say how they can and can not rule millions of people when they themselves never once OWNED this land. technically they MURDERED AN ENTIRE CULTURE of people, devistated their lands sacred and not, pillaged their religions and existances, forced them into fake treaties that were never adhered to anyways ("sure you can trust the "American" government just ask an Indian!"), etc. Just soo they could escape the rule of the king ONLY to bring its rule and worse here at the costs of more then they care to have known! i mean really you think you can say this is your land!!! ahahaha this was never your land.. you stole it at the costs of priceless lives, histories and ancestors. You have no right to tell us what to do! You have no right to paint yourself a white pedastal and rule from it. you have no right to deem what is right for each of us let alone the land. you have no rights to pull rules and laws out of the sky for your own benefits. you have no rights to tear down trees, the very organisms that help sustain life by giving oxygen, for your cotton pickin own green backs thats sole value is picked from thin air from a pompass white illetus sitting on the throne in the federal reserve bank land. essentially you dont own us, you dont own the land, or anything thereof. Just because you have headings over it doesnt mean your the king or god. Only god can tell us what to really do and he is right now telling us to smarten up otherwise we will have no choice but to see the wrath to come.. And im not a religious person. So take my guns, take my rights but by god you will never take my soul and i will fight you until either I win or we both go down! If i dont fight - if we dont fight what will be left for our children!? keeping my guns but never succumbing to "THEM"!!!

 

After reading this, I feel extra inspired and speechless. Well said!

[jimbojinx]

After reading this, I feel extra inspired and speechless. Well said!

After listening to Mike Korman, there is no way I will have a gun in the house along with MMJ. I will take my chances with the burglar.....once a cop is in your house and he sees the MMj and finds the pistol, you can be looking at doing two years in a Fed Pen.

No thanks, that is one risk I will not chance.

Dr. jinx

[+420Atheist]

After listening to Mike Korman, there is no way I will have a gun in the house along with MMJ. I will take my chances with the burglar.....once a cop is in your house and he sees the MMj and finds the pistol, you can be looking at doing two years in a Fed Pen.

No thanks, that is one risk I will not chance.

Dr. jinx

 

Michael did put the fear of god into me a little bit to. However he did say that some places never gave it a second though when they found guns. Also one of the guys here that got raided was left alone after he showed his cards was asked if he had guns. He said yes and nothing more was done. So it is not a sure thing you will get charged with them but it is a risk. Enough of a risk to make me stop growing and going the caregiver route for now.

[jimbojinx]

Michael did put the fear of god into me a little bit to. However he did say that some places never gave it a second though when they found guns. Also one of the guys here that got raided was left alone after he showed his cards was asked if he had guns. He said yes and nothing more was done. So it is not a sure thing you will get charged with them but it is a risk. Enough of a risk to make me stop growing and going the caregiver route for now.

 

Hi 420 !

 

Its good to know that I am not the only one who got a scary wake-up call from Michael ! Unfortunately, whether the arrest policies vary from county to county or not, I could not put myself nor my family through a possible Federal Drugs/Weapon charge. I know my wife who is 73 could not survive the stress !!

 

I am staying away from Caregiver as well for the very same reason.

 

Ain't it great to see how "Great Minds Can Think Alike " !

 

Dr. Jinx

[Mr. Wilson]

In the Oregon case;

 

The sheriffs argue that the 1968 U.S. Gun Control Act prohibits selling firearms to drug addicts, and they say that includes medical marijuana card holders. Their briefs state that they cannot give a permit to carry a gun to someone prohibited from buying or owning a gun.

 

But the cardholders have won so far arguing this is one situation where federal law does not trump state law, because the concealed handgun license just gives a person a legal defense if they are arrested, not a right.

 

Oregon’s attorney general has sided with the marijuana cardholders, arguing that the concealed handgun license cannot be used to buy a gun, so sheriffs who issue one to a marijuana card holder are not in violation of the federal law.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Two separate issues here:

 

ONE--Buying a gun while holding a Med Mar Card:

 

The registry is PRIVATE. The sheriff does not know the names of card holders. If he does, he has to have an explanation of where he came by that information. So in most cases, you can still buy guns without a problem unless you are one of these people who "volunteered" your own name to your local sheriff. Even then, he may not care.

 

Two--Having guns in your possession:

 

As long as you are within the limits of the State Medical Marijuana Law and possess a valid card, you cannot be charged with a drug crime by the State of Michigan and thus you can't be charged with a gun crime (if it is legally owned).

 

BUT, The way a local sheriff can get around this fact (if he is a hardcore hater like Bouchard) is by calling in the DEA on a raid.

If the DEA raids you, it doesn't matter. You are screwed. All the marijuana is illegal (medical or not) AND any guns will likely be linked to the drug charges that may follow.

 

I think the odds are low, that you will get nailed on Federal charges, but it's always a risk.

 

The only real way to avoid risk is to not grow and to not own guns, but that is unrealistic.

 

It's a sad day in America, when you have to hide your medicine and guns....NOT from criminals...BUT FROM THE POLICE.

[jimbojinx]

HI Mr. Wilson !!!

 

"It's a sad day in America, when you have to hide your medicine and guns....NOT from criminals...BUT FROM THE POLICE.

Wilson ".

 

You are absolutely right !!!

 

And it is going to get a lot tougher before it gets to be safe !!

 

So I wont grow and if I have MMJ in the house, I will not have any firearms in the home.

 

I will take my chances with a burglar...But I won't take chances with a cop who refuses to try to even understand the MMMA and refuses to respect my rights !

 

Dr. Jinx

[solabeirtan]

Just an update on Trix Case, her case was dismissed. Yeah !!! She was never guilty, just over zealous rooky? popos. She was meticulous though, totally legal with both her grow and her gun. Gun was Legal and Registered.

 

My case the gun was legal but the guy was deceased, so only was unregistered, my bad. However only slightly less of a problem, as it saved me probably min $5,000 in Legal fees, by giving me, a no brainer at the time. I would have taken it to conclusion, but honestley the prospect of what Bob Redden is now going through, after being in the Courts for over 2 years in a Divorce allready, at that time, when picking up this charge was the deciding factor. Oh maybe it was the fact I was looking forward to Cancer Surgery after going through our Registration process. Very frustrating, especially because I was, I knew 100% legal. Maybe we'll review things in the future.

 

I took the guilty on unregistered firearm $150 fine. I walked away from the Cashiers box with the balance of my Bond. However I had to kiss the, glock adios . Oh and I'm now Cancer free Survivor. Oh and the greatest feeling of all a Freeman. For what its worth, here.

[jimbojinx]

Just an update on Trix Case, her case was dismissed. Yeah !!! She was never guilty, just over zealous rooky? popos. She was meticulous though, totally legal with both her grow and her gun. Gun was Legal and Registered.

 

My case the gun was legal but the guy was deceased, so only was unregistered, my bad. However only slightly less of a problem, as it saved me probably min $5,000 in Legal fees, by giving me, a no brainer at the time. I would have taken it to conclusion, but honestley the prospect of what Bob Redden is now going through, after being in the Courts for over 2 years in a Divorce allready, at that time, when picking up this charge was the deciding factor. Oh maybe it was the fact I was looking forward to Cancer Surgery after going through our Registration process. Very frustrating, especially because I was, I knew 100% legal. Maybe we'll review things in the future.

 

I took the guilty on unregistered firearm $150 fine. I walked away from the Cashiers box with the balance of my Bond. However I had to kiss the, glock adios . Oh and I'm now Cancer free Survivor. Oh and the greatest feeling of all a Freeman. For what its worth, here.

Hi Solabeirten !!

 

I inherited a pistol 20 years ago...It is hiding around the house SOMEWHERE !!

 

Do you think that if I take it into the local sheriff's office to get it registered, I face the chance of a $150. fine ?

 

Many thanks,

 

Dr. Jinx

[trix]

<--- is a he =)

 

Glad to here your a survivor!!

 

Gun ownership, and Medical Marijuana. must be addressed, this part of our law effects every gun owner that is a CG..

 

There isn't anyone part of the law that is more important than another, but this part has the most severe results if busted. 2 yrs no matter what size plants could be a seed that just popped from the dirt.

 

I don't know how to start something that could help change this part of the law, but I'm trying to find a resource to help..

 

Trix

[+420Atheist]

One thing is I did not break any federal laws when I purchased my firearms. They were all purchased before I became a patient so I truthfully answered the questions on the form at the time I purchased. I would be concerned about purchasing a firearm now.

 

Good point Solabeirtan. I have a firearm I inherited from my farther I probably need to get registered. I would hate to lose it as he was a pilot with the Flying Tigers during WWII and it is the gun he carried with him. He said he did not like the issued 45 as he could not hit anything with it. I even have the sale paperwork from the BX in Burma. $25 for a 38 special Colt Commando.

[solabeirtan]

Hi Solabeirten !!

 

I inherited a pistol 20 years ago...It is hiding around the house SOMEWHERE !!

 

Do you think that if I take it into the local sheriff's office to get it registered, I face the chance of a $150. fine ?

 

Many thanks,

 

Dr. Jinx

No Jinx, the $150 fine is if you got busted with it and it not being registered.

 

I think its the State Police does the Registration call and ask, to be sure. Even leave the gun in the car locked of course, go in have them do the registration, she will tell you where to go next. Not a big deal really Jinx, if it is tell them the gun is at home you'll go get it !

 

That's what I did. When she asked about the gun I said it was at the court house. Thought the judge would be considerate, fat chance, not in Livingston Co.

 

But if they gave it back it would have been registered. The gun was a 10mm/40cal glock, holster, xtra mag, apx 25 bullets Retail $450 apx vs 1+yrs in court, Lawyers fees, gas, missed work, it was not worth persuing. The gun did have sentimental val apx 1,000 +, still not worth it ....................... ........................... .......peace

 

Good point Solabeirtan. I have a firearm I inherited from my farther I probably need to get registered. I would hate to lose it as he was a pilot with the Flying Tigers during WWII and it is the gun he carried with him. He said he did not like the issued 45 as he could not hit anything with it. I even have the sale paperwork from the BX in Burma. $25 for a 38 special Colt Commando.

Good idea, I would consider it cheap insurance and worth it for the peace of mind to be 100% legal.

[richard from the gym]

Hey guys, I know I'm reviving a "dead" thread but I found you guys very active and knowledgeable on these topics but I am an Arizona resident and I am hoping you may have some insight for me. Basically, the law out here states that you can be a medical marijuana caregiver for a patient with a card since we don't have any dispensaries at the moment. With that being said, you're ONLY allowed to grow, not smoke or use marijuana on yourself in any way. The thing with the ATF and buying guns doesn't apply to me (I'm assuming it doesn't apply to me with the wording on the 4473 which is the form you fill out to purchase a firearm) since it says an "unlawful user" and I am not using or addicted to it in any way, am I a target for the FBI? I have a CCW and am an AVID gun purchaser and even work for a gun store out here. The DPS checked my CCW stuff and they also get my fingerprint information for the caregiver card so I'm wondering if they will alert the FBI in any way about me...any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated!

 

TRIX (I think it was you) - I'm sure you got busted for "lying"(<--that's the way the FBI will look at it at least) on the ATF form when you checked the box "No" after the question about the unlawful user of marijuana. That's probably why you went to jail, right? Or am I wrong? Sorry, lol I've been doing a lot of reading about incidents and what not and it seems all jumbled together...

 

Cody

[The Digital Nomad]

Sorry, the question - "Are you a unlawful user" is based on FEDERAL laws - so the ATF recently issued a statement - if you are using medical marijuana - a restricted Controlled Substance under Federal Law - you CANNOT check "No" - or you will be lying on your FFL form. The ATF told gun shop employees to LOOK for medical marijuana cards - and to DENY to these people!

 

The ATF went on to say that we are all now felons because we possess marijuana and a firearm.

 

Welcome Outlaw!

 

now, certain jurisdictions, prosecutors - police - did not charge owners who were caught or even charged with marijuana CSA violations - it is up to them if they want to pursue FEDERAL charges for possessing those firearms and marijuana. This is a 2 year felony, and it also gives them reason not to give you your guns back. With Michigan's poor forfeiture laws, I would not be surprised at legal people being threatened with this law if they try to get their guns back - despite having marijuana charges dismissed!

 

DN

[pergamum362]

after reading up to about the middle of the second page of posts...I have to say..I personaly..will not give up my rights to bear arms..I live in detroit..my TRUCK radio and amp was stolen out of my truck..had to be during about broud daylight...last week..thats only worth max..a bill.not to worrie about it..my point is..iF I cant own a gun how can I protect myself with What I have in my house or even if i dont..how can I protect myself..my freedom is worth alot more than any physical possesion..Ill own my gun..Ill keep it in my house..when my permit finally arrives(about 2 more months to go)I will keep my sidearm on me..I will not give up my right to bear arms.I will go to jail first.It sickens me to see that people even think about giving up that right..thats the only thing taht protects us from what AMERICA fears most..a hostile take over..from anyone.

[The Digital Nomad]

"I rather be judged by 12, than carried by 6"

 

I agree, people should not have to give up the right to hunt for food or for safety. We all know the Police are a 'reactive force' - they come AFTER the crime has happened. Will you be standing there talking to the police, or laying on a gurney?

 

DN

[Willy]

well lately this has come into an interest to me as well. i am seriously thinking about purchasing a new firearm. I also want to apply for a cpl/ccw. So do i lie on the form. lol or has anyone done a recent appl. since getting there mmj card. Did the fbi background check show anything, and do the shops now ask. (Here in michigan.) I also agree with the cold dead hands rule. However i want a ccw. As well as a new pistol and likely another rifle as well. something with home protection in mind. I just don't want any crap that could hinge on my loosing any weapons i already own.

[The Digital Nomad]

well lately this has come into an interest to me as well. i am seriously thinking about purchasing a new firearm. I also want to apply for a cpl/ccw. So do i lie on the form. lol or has anyone done a recent appl. since getting there mmj card. Did the fbi background check show anything, and do the shops now ask. (Here in michigan.) I also agree with the cold dead hands rule. However i want a ccw. As well as a new pistol and likely another rifle as well. something with home protection in mind. I just don't want any crap that could hinge on my loosing any weapons i already own.

 

1. The MDCH MMMP database is private and the DEA, IRS or ATF cannot cross reference the gun database with this and find out who is a cardholder or not.

2. Gun shops were sent a memo by the ATF telling them to look for the MMMP card, to deny gun purchase to those who admit or display the MMMP ID card.

3. You will be lying on the form, as the question is asking based on Federal laws on controlled substances. But it is your choice, some jurisdictions have not prosecuted people who had medical grows and firearms, even if they were charged with a CSA violation.

 

Judged by 12 or Carried by 6 - your choice.

 

DN

[Scooter]

Stick to the shotguns. You can't go wrong for home protection. Besides, it's the handguns LEO are most concerned with. Hard to conceal a double barrel 12 with side by side triggers! No rifling, no ballistics. I let my father have my 9mm for safekeeping, and have a paintball gun with marble shot, resin shot, and capsican shot for home protection. And pink paintballs. It's in my gallery; more expensive than many guns, but NON lethal!

[The Digital Nomad]

I believe there is pending legislature in michigan to allow residents to possess stunguns, and that might include the Tazer.

 

Sprays are good too - You can get a "Brown Bear" sized can of Pepper Spray for $30/40. You want something higher than 2% OC if you can. Some of these OC canisters can be rigged with a 'trip flare' boobytrap - (check shomer-tec.com). Peanut Butter even suggested Wasp spray - which is blinding, but could cause permanent damage - thats better than nothing.

 

I would agree to own the least offensive weapon if you have to - a shotgun is certainly less 'scarey' in court than a Desert Eagle .50 pistol, a FN 5.7mm or a M4 with tactical gear and steel core ammo. Remember, you are allowed to defend yourself against criminals, so arm accordingly - you are not preparing for war.

 

DN

[Medcnman]

well lately this has come into an interest to me as well. i am seriously thinking about purchasing a new firearm. I also want to apply for a cpl/ccw. So do i lie on the form. lol or has anyone done a recent appl. since getting there mmj card. Did the fbi background check show anything, and do the shops now ask. (Here in michigan.) I also agree with the cold dead hands rule. However i want a ccw. As well as a new pistol and likely another rifle as well. something with home protection in mind. I just don't want any crap that could hinge on my loosing any weapons i already own.

I renewed my MM card AND my CPL this year. I used the "dont ask, dont tell" method. So far, no troubles. Thanks, Medcnman.

[MrShpongle]

Some gun shops are definitely asking about the MMJ card. I was in one last week, and a potential handgun purchaser was having a spirited discussion with an employee about the ramifications of having a Michigan card. The employee, a younger guy who did not give off any sort of anti-420 bias, was nonetheless totally straightforward and businesslike when it came to the medical marijuana issue. Who knows, maybe the ATF is sending in undercover agents to gun shops to see who might be lax on the issue. Frankly, if I owned a gun shop, I'd have to adopt the same no-nonsense attitude rather than risk having my federal firearms license revoked.