The Brass Tacks On Gun Ownership And Caregiving

[Indicat]

i just read from another thread here how a caregiver got screwed because they were also gun owners.

 

then i read people who seem to think it's okay.

 

as a gun owner, im kinda worried about this. does anybody have any sort of "final word" on this?

 

or is it really case-by-case in the court?

[The Digital Nomad]

"Keep in mind here that as far as the 9th Circuit and the federal courts are concerned, all marijuana grows are a felony. So you state-registered medical marijuana growers in California, Oregon, and Washington covered by the 9th Circuit, you are on notice: you have no federal 2nd Amendment rights anymore.

"

http://stash.norml.org/9th-circuit-court-rules-possessing-gun-while-growing-marijuana-is-a-crime

 

-DN

[+420Atheist]

After consulting with a lawyer I have stopped growing. It is just not necessary for how little medicine is required for me and my wife. I bought my first shotgun when I was 13. I was unwilling to get rid of my guns. I figured the best thing for me is to never have more than a misdemeanors worth of cannabis. It sucks but I am waiting until things get a little more cannabis friendly.

[wolfgama]

<<<< Gama's Other Half!!...Well Said!!..."420"......Peace!!

[solabeirtan]

After consulting with a lawyer I have stopped growing. It is just not necessary for how little medicine is required for me and my wife. I bought my first shotgun when I was 13. I was unwilling to get rid of my guns. I figured the best thing for me is to never have more than a misdemeanors worth of cannabis. It sucks but I am waiting until things get a little more cannabis friendly.

It is America, after all .

 

More friendly ? This is the best we have been able to do in 70 years ? Have you had any problems ?

 

I have had problems. Still, since getting my card [4/2009] I have not enjoyed more quality Peace of Mind since I was about that age. There isn't a gun in the World capable of creating that effect.

 

Progress seems very snail like, maybe a little patience would help ?

 

... peace

 

ps. I traded an unregistered pistol [$150 fine + pistol] for get out of Jail Free Card on a MJ possession March 2009.

 

..... "After consulting with a lawyer I have stopped growing".

Did it have something to do with the Cost?

[The Digital Nomad]

It is America, after all .

 

More friendly ? This is the best we have been able to do in 70 years ? Have you had any problems ?

 

I have had problems. Still, since getting my card [4/2009] I have not enjoyed more quality Peace of Mind since I was about that age. There isn't a gun in the World capable of creating that effect.

 

Progress seems very snail like, maybe a little patience would help ?

 

... peace

 

ps. I traded an unregistered pistol [$150 fine + pistol] for get out of Jail Free Card on a MJ possession March 2009.

 

..... "After consulting with a lawyer I have stopped growing".

Did it have something to do with the Cost?

 

We have to make a stand.

A sick person needs relief, and the current medical system is not providing relief. No one should suffer, its inhumane, immoral.

I was one of the suffering, I was tortured, abused, experimented on - under the guise of medical ethics and hospital policies. I worked in a hospital, so I know what goes on in the background, clueless doctors, overworked nurses, and a system of policies that protect the profits.

I object. I object to this very strongly.

 

"

All our history gives confirmation to the view that liberty of conscience has a moral and social value which makes it worthy of preservation at the hands of the state. So deep in its significance and vital, indeed, is it to the integrity of man’s moral and spiritual nature that nothing short of the self-preservation of the state should warrant its violation; and it may well be questioned whether the state which preserves its life by a settled policy of violation of the conscience of the individual will not in fact ultimately lose it by the process.

 

(Chief Justice Harlan F. Stone, “The Conscientious Objector,” Columbia University Quarterly, vol. 21, October 1919)

 

My conscience prevents me from looking the other way, I cannot accept an alternative reality to what is really happening - people suffer for money and over regulation. People will die unhappy, in pain, with no dignity. It happens everyday, right in USA.

 

My conscience prevents me from using marijuana while others suffer. While I can, I have to fight for those who cannot fight, now and in the future. This is about the other patients, not me.

 

-DN

[smokeythebear]

oregon is about the only place I know of that has a gun/marijuana law on the books saying it's ok

[The Digital Nomad]

oregon is about the only place I know of that has a gun/marijuana law on the books saying it's ok

 

Hmm that is helpful - since one state uses it, it is not hard to get another state to utilize it too.

 

-DN

[smokeythebear]

http://www.kval.com/news/local/69244857.html

 

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/06/oregon_gun_ruling_a_victory_fo.html

 

I put this in yahoo, "oregon medical mariuana guns" and got a bunch of links on it

 

 

I remember them saying that it cost the 3-4 guys a crap load of $ to make it happen. This is Michigan and I dont know about downstate but in the U.P. everyone has a gun or 2 (or like my dad 60+,lol)in there house. most "busts" ya see they lay out the guys rem 700bdl 30-06 and there double barrel bird gun,lol, I know ya can take someone out with them just as good as a ak but comeone even we the people know them are hunting guns. We should get a group together and start getting the ball rolling on this. We can get ahold of the people in oregon and i'm sure they would help.

 

we need to fight for our rights before they try and take them.

[Guest OxXGarfieldXxO]

I wonder about this myself. I'm not a big hunter or anything, but I have a few of my fathers guns. They haven't been fired since like 93, and haven't owned ammo since then.

 

Wonder how much a dif having ammo makes, or is it simply: You got guns, so you're a drug dealer!

[continuobrisa]

After consulting with a lawyer I have stopped growing. It is just not necessary for how little medicine is required for me and my wife. I bought my first shotgun when I was 13. I was unwilling to get rid of my guns. I figured the best thing for me is to never have more than a misdemeanors worth of cannabis. It sucks but I am waiting until things get a little more cannabis friendly.

 

 

To 420Atheist:

 

Let me start these thoughts with you.

 

You say you stopped growing. Really? Did you stop growing cannabis or was it other growing you stopped after your “consulting with a lawyer”?

 

It appears you are a 2nd amendment proponent, are you not a 10th amendment proponent?

 

[Tenth Amendment to the United States Constitution

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.]

 

I have the same mindset when it comes to your unwillingness to give up your guns. I’m all for the 2nd amendment. I believe you have a strong faith in it – maybe a blind faith. I do.

 

Does anybody have the mindset that the MICHIGAN MEDICAL MARIHUANA ACT is a true constitutional right of the 10th amendment kind? I do.

 

I remember signing the petition to put it on the ballot.

 

I hope you start growing again.

 

To Indicat:

 

I hope you see this as your “final word” on this.

 

Regards,

Bryan

[solabeirtan]

We have to make a stand.

A sick person needs relief, and the current medical system is not providing relief. No one should suffer, its inhumane, immoral.

I was one of the suffering, I was tortured, abused, experimented on - under the guise of medical ethics and hospital policies. I worked in a hospital, so I know what goes on in the background, clueless doctors, overworked nurses, and a system of policies that protect the profits.

I object. I object to this very strongly.

 

My conscience prevents me from looking the other way, I cannot accept an alternative reality to what is really happening - people suffer for money and over regulation. People will die unhappy, in pain, with no dignity. It happens everyday, right in USA.

 

My conscience prevents me from using marijuana while others suffer. While I can, I have to fight for those who cannot fight, now and in the future. This is about the other patients, not me.

 

-DN

A bit hipocritical ? The idea is to grow. Both Patients if possible and caregivers otherwise and combined.

 

Provided you choose to produce, You obviously need to do your own pharmacological testing, it's part of the early drug development procedure. This enables you to be aware of the effects of the different strains and makes you knowledgebale for recomendations as well as personal preferences. If you dont participate who are you going to help ?

 

Stay Legal, stay Healthy, stay productive.

[shiningheartwoman]

We have to make a stand.

A sick person needs relief, and the current medical system is not providing relief. No one should suffer, its inhumane, immoral.

I was one of the suffering, I was tortured, abused, experimented on - under the guise of medical ethics and hospital policies. I worked in a hospital, so I know what goes on in the background, clueless doctors, overworked nurses, and a system of policies that protect the profits.

I object. I object to this very strongly.

 

"

All our history gives confirmation to the view that liberty of conscience has a moral and social value which makes it worthy of preservation at the hands of the state. So deep in its significance and vital, indeed, is it to the integrity of man’s moral and spiritual nature that nothing short of the self-preservation of the state should warrant its violation; and it may well be questioned whether the state which preserves its life by a settled policy of violation of the conscience of the individual will not in fact ultimately lose it by the process.

 

(Chief Justice Harlan F. Stone, “The Conscientious Objector,” Columbia University Quarterly, vol. 21, October 1919)

 

My conscience prevents me from looking the other way, I cannot accept an alternative reality to what is really happening - people suffer for money and over regulation. People will die unhappy, in pain, with no dignity. It happens everyday, right in USA.

 

My conscience prevents me from using marijuana while others suffer. While I can, I have to fight for those who cannot fight, now and in the future. This is about the other patients, not me.

 

-DN

 

 

Amen brother, and well said i commend you.. if i knew the knowledge that i now know in the whole movement and in the truths of cannabis as a medicine when my mother was ill maybe i could have helped her more. Sure she illegally partook into smoking cannabis despite her copd because it helped her. And even that little bit of help was a blessing. but if i knew then what i do now we could have tried vared forms, strains and ways to have helped her.. She was her own pharmecutical company in essence with the scads of drugs theyd feed her like damned PEZ candies. The way the ignorant and douche bag drs and nurses treated her in her days and even final days.. I posted a little of her story in a reply to the one ZApunidos posted about MrsMissys stroy from the Henry Ford hospital in detroit. And my mother wasnt the only one mistreated. all four grandparents were mistreated in their final days..the most recent of my grandma in 04 having to be put into a home for her last days and they not letting her get her sleep, constently poking and prodding her at all hours not feeding or cleaning her well etc that every time gramps went to visit her she would literally cry to him about the mistreatment. Upon standing up for his companion of over 60-65 yrs of marriage they BANNED him from seeing her.. even after she passed away 3 days after his ban they wouldnt let him pay his last respects before they sent her body to be cremated. He never had that closure or that being able to say good bye. i mean this is just a teeeeny tiny fraction of the bullcrap going on out there in these lines and its bullcrap... id love to see every damned one of them ALL taken down. i fear for our children and for death and suffering but i also PRAY for our mother to cleanse herself (which has begun) because essentially she will go on even after we are all dust. We will never be able to stop these injustices as long as human is allowed to exist. there will always be corruption and evil no mater what. we can fight till our last breaths but even then it wont faze them.. But your right we still need to keep up the fight till we no longer can.. not only for ourselves but for those we pave the ways for and those who cannot fight for themselves. peace to all and i follow you in your objections to all of this as well..

[shiningheartwoman]

PS id like to also know more about the truth of the law and how it states about guns n grows n such.. i always say Knowledge is power and the more that is known about ones true rights the better!! for them to say you cant have guns near your grow follows closely under them trying to say they want to abolish our second amendment the right to bear arms so they then can regulate us even further. KNOWING we wont have a way to defend ourselves, our loved ones and what is rightfully ours! NOT THIERS! if they cant have their greedy little pasw into it its no good for anyone! Im not down for it. never have never will. My father as well as any and all of the vets out there did not fight for our freedoms for them to consistently tighten this crap up on us.. they are nitpicking to pave way for their new world order that is on the rise!.. i will never succumb to them telling me i cannot excericse my right to bear arms and i will never let them tell me that i can not excerise my rights to legal grow medicine foreither myself or others if that was the route i chose to do!! We have conformed to their ways since birth being FED what they want us to know not only in society, in media but also in our schools far tooo much for faaar too long.. And its pretty pompass for a handful of illetus predominately pompass white old men to sit back and say how they can and can not rule millions of people when they themselves never once OWNED this land. technically they MURDERED AN ENTIRE CULTURE of people, devistated their lands sacred and not, pillaged their religions and existances, forced them into fake treaties that were never adhered to anyways ("sure you can trust the "American" government just ask an Indian!"), etc. Just soo they could escape the rule of the king ONLY to bring its rule and worse here at the costs of more then they care to have known! i mean really you think you can say this is your land!!! ahahaha this was never your land.. you stole it at the costs of priceless lives, histories and ancestors. You have no right to tell us what to do! You have no right to paint yourself a white pedastal and rule from it. you have no right to deem what is right for each of us let alone the land. you have no rights to pull rules and laws out of the sky for your own benefits. you have no rights to tear down trees, the very organisms that help sustain life by giving oxygen, for your cotton pickin own green backs thats sole value is picked from thin air from a pompass white illetus sitting on the throne in the federal reserve bank land. essentially you dont own us, you dont own the land, or anything thereof. Just because you have headings over it doesnt mean your the king or god. Only god can tell us what to really do and he is right now telling us to smarten up otherwise we will have no choice but to see the wrath to come.. And im not a religious person. So take my guns, take my rights but by god you will never take my soul and i will fight you until either I win or we both go down! If i dont fight - if we dont fight what will be left for our children!? keeping my guns but never succumbing to "THEM"!!!

[opietaylor]

I'm not much of a gun person though I have three. I take them out and clean them once every few years after shooting a few rounds just so I remember how to operate them. We got them because we live in some remote woods and have had people come down our long drive way at all hours of the night. That being said, perhaps what is needed is having a cg or pt who is a NRA member contact the NRA and get them involved. The NRA certainly seems to have a lot of influence with the politicians and they don't like any infringement on gun ownership. Any NRA members out there? We need your help!!

[Mr. Wilson]

Republican politicians are already talking about ways to make Med Mar users/growers not be able to CCW.

 

They want to gut the law and this is one avenue. I would be shocked if the NRA tried to discourage them.

 

The NRA helped elect most of them.

 

It's unfortunate that most Republicans have a hypocritical double standard when it comes to freedom.

 

They think that everyone should have the right to protect themselves with deadly weapons, but think the government has the right to put you in jail for growing a plant and choosing to put it in your own body.

[+420Atheist]

It is America, after all .

 

More friendly ? This is the best we have been able to do in 70 years ? Have you had any problems ?

 

I have had problems. Still, since getting my card [4/2009] I have not enjoyed more quality Peace of Mind since I was about that age. There isn't a gun in the World capable of creating that effect.

 

Progress seems very snail like, maybe a little patience would help ?

 

... peace

 

ps. I traded an unregistered pistol [$150 fine + pistol] for get out of Jail Free Card on a MJ possession March 2009.

 

..... "After consulting with a lawyer I have stopped growing".

Did it have something to do with the Cost?

 

Nope I have not had any problems. But I have always been cautious.

 

I get the second amendment rights and yes we are legal so there should be no issues. But we all know being legal and having a card does not guarantee you will not have a problem. I just am not at a point in my life where I care to fight any court battles. I probably will grow again at some point. I have never done organic in good old dirt and want to give that a try next time. I would also like to help out other patients but I am going to lay low for a while. To me if you always have a crop going you are at more risk than if it is hit and miss on when to raid you.

[+420Atheist]

Republican politicians are already talking about ways to make Med Mar users/growers not be able to CCW.

 

They want to gut the law and this is one avenue. I would be shocked if the NRA tried to discourage them.

 

The NRA helped elect most of them.

 

It's unfortunate that most Republicans have a hypocritical double standard when it comes to freedom.

 

They think that everyone should have the right to protect themselves with deadly weapons, but think the government has the right to put you in jail for growing a plant and choosing to put it in your own body.

 

This will be a bad deal for me. I have had a CCW since the must issue law was passed. You would think after having one for that many years and never being a problem would make them leave my permit alone but I bet not. The reason I joined the MMJ program is because I believed we were protected from that sort of prejudice.

[bobandtorey]

This will be a bad deal for me. I have had a CCW since the must issue law was passed. You would think after having one for that many years and never being a problem would make them leave my permit alone but I bet not. The reason I joined the MMJ program is because I believed we were protected from that sort of prejudice.

 

 

If we have learned any thing it is what you say we may be legal but they don't see it that way yet and may not for some time

[Croppled1]

If we have learned any thing it is what you say we may be legal but they don't see it that way yet and may not for some time

 

This is from South Eastern MIchigan on felony firearms it looks like a illegal grow though but still . This guy feels he was wrongly convicted but it does state you must intend to use the gun in commision of the drug felony . I would hope those of us who had hunting rifles for life would carry some weight . Gun owners might find this interesting I didnt pull up the statute here but it is in compiled law if you really want to I think Cannabis is coverred in about 10 pages or less at the State site .

 

 

 

I want to make sure you understand possession of marijuana,

while having a gun, is not felony-firearm. And that you have to have the gun in

your possession in furtherance of the crime, to make it a felony-firearm.

 

The problem is different juries can see this in seperate ways . Like any gun is there to protect felony plants , some realize that isnt true . This law needs further work now that we have legal patients who are prone by disabillity , disease state and injury to have minor infractions of the act that in no way should trigger felonies . I would sure want the jury to know I had my guns since my teens , shot on range before ill and had hunting licenses . Its been a while I doubt many remember the combo fishing deer and small game " sportsman " licenses . I think at one time they were $25

 

http://coa.courts.mi..._298065.OPN.PDF

[newcaregiver]

I actually did consult an attorney on this matter for a different (non-medical) state. He stated that shotguns in the house has held up as evidence of use within the commission of a drug felony (language may vary slightly, recalling from memory) in the past.

 

I keep my hunting guns in a storage facility.

[trix]

This stuff is real folks, guns and Marijuana, equal a police record..... it's cost me several thousand on lawyers, and the last year of my life, not to mention the stress on my family.. they are not even talking about the weed anymore its all about the gun, and something called a nexxus rule.. 1968 gun safety control act. I really truly hope they fix this part of the law, they are violating my right to bear arms, as well as anyone else that is a PT for that matter..

 

See that part dangerous drugs, yeah that's the marijuana.. I would have a lesser charge if I had cocaine or heroin.

 

Look close at that charge felony-delivery/manufacturing Marijuana. <--------- doesn't include the words Medical anything,

Felony -Dangerous drugs <---------- "Legal" Its still the most dangerous drug out there!!!

 

 

Edit: image removed, sorry

[solabeirtan]

This stuff is real folks, guns and Marijuana, equal a police record..... it's cost me several thousand on lawyers, and the last year of my life, not to mention the stress on my family.. they are not even talking about the weed anymore its all about the gun, and something called a nexxus rule.. 1968 gun safety control act. I really truly hope they fix this part of the law, they are violating my right to bear arms, as well as anyone else that is a PT for that matter..

 

See that part dangerous drugs, yeah that's the marijuana.. I would have a lesser charge if I had cocaine or heroin.

 

Sorry for your troubles Trix. The real part is that it did happen. Unfortunatley for you, it never should have !

 

Per Our Law you cannot be charged for the "felony drugs" provided it is MJ they are referring to. Therefore there is NO "felony firearms" either. In fact they did they even have a search warrant ? If that weapon was registered, you're 100% Legal...

 

You've been 'had', duped, punked, used and abused. ...Hang in there payback is coming, we're not going to take it. No more .... no ....... never .... again ......................................................................................................................................Peace !

[trix]

Sorry for your troubles Trix. The real part is that it did happen. Unfortunatley for you, it never should have !

 

Per Our Law you cannot be charged for the "felony drugs" provided it is MJ they are referring to. Therefore there is NO "felony firearms" either. In fact they did they even have a search warrant ? If that weapon was registered, you're 100% Legal...

 

You've been 'had', duped, punked, used and abused. ...Hang in there payback is coming, we're not going to take it. No more .... no ....... never .... again ......................................................................................................................................Peace !

 

I will come outta this a better and smarter person, I have learned a lot about a few things in the last year.

 

I hope I don't come across to people as a complainer, or a sheet starter or someone seeking pity, I just don't think people know how serious this part of the MMMAct is.

 

They have given you a choice, grow MM, or keep your right to bear arms. you cant have both its one or the other!

 

I don't know what else to say on the subject, so I showed what it looks like when they come in and find a Marijuana plant, and a gun under the same roof. that's what your record will show, could be permanently on there if you don't have a bomb azz lawyer, to fight for you.. Thanks Michael..

 

Trix

 

Edit: I truly feel that we need to figure out how to change this its interfering with our 2nd amendment, and this can't stay this way.

It along the lines of SB17, you can be a PT but you cant drive. this case you can have a gun but cant be a PT.

[solabeirtan]

I will come outta this a better and smarter person, I have learned a lot about a few things in the last year.

 

I hope I don't come across to people as a complainer, or a sheet starter or someone seeking pity, I just don't think people know how serious this part of the MMMAct is.

 

They have given you a choice, grow MM, or keep your right to bear arms. you cant have both its one or the other!

 

I don't know what else to say on the subject, so I showed what it looks like when they come in and find a Marijuana plant, and a gun under the same roof. that's what your record will show, could be permanently on there if you don't have a bomb azz lawyer, to fight for you.. Thanks Michael..

 

Trix

 

Edit: I truly feel that we need to figure out how to change this its interfering with our 2nd amendment, and this can't stay this way.

It along the lines of SB17, you can be a PT but you cant drive. this case you can have a gun but cant be a PT.

 

Please tell us if the gun was legal, registered, etc., if so it is legal.