Cannabis Coalition Unifies State In Opposition To House Bills

[SFC]

Wringly you have no idea so I will leave it at that. Since my posting about what changes could be made much has changed. Our letter has angered some of the Rep's. Oh well I guess. There will be no more amendments best I can tell, which is fine with me. Put up for a vote then , lets see if you have 28 Dems and all the Republicans.. I think we played our weak hand as strongly as we possibly could have, I dare say it was borderline brilliant. I say that judging by the reaction of our friends on the committee. At least now CPU can say we are equally hated on the congressional side of the fence too.

[wringly]

What is it that makes you say that? I just don't understand your reasoning.

This SFC person wants leo to throw me in jail if my marijuana is not locked out of my reach while I could line my dangerous drugs across my dash like a bunch of plastic Jesuses. This is the the same ignorance and prejudice that this whole battle is about! I ask who he represented ,he only reiterated what I had already clearly stated,I believe he's from that Canabius Prosecuters United outfit.

[Restorium2]

This SFC person wants leo to throw me in jail if my marijuana is not locked out of my reach while I could line my dangerous drugs across my dash like a bunch of plastic Jesuses. This is the the same ignorance and prejudice that this whole battle is about! I ask who he represented ,he only reiterated what I had already clearly stated,I believe he's from that Canabius Prosecuters United outfit.

Woah there. CPU tried to get some language changes just in case the bills passed. That was their intent as a group. One person doesn't speak unilaterally for CPU. When the voting neared CPU was on board with a push for a solid no vote on all the bills, just like we wanted. United we stand against these bills, make no mistake about that. I'm not a member of CPU, but I do understand their position on the bills, they want them voted DOWN.

[Restorium2]

Any yes votes will show our targets for election. That's the important thing. The YES's are the problem, not CPU. We will have a list of targets soon. Any NO is a hero, a YES is a zero. Let the chips fall where they vote.

[SFC]

No problem guys, and thanks for having my back Resto and Zap. As you see some people would just as soon flame than actually read the words in front of them. Don't be a silly billy! That is what the current situation dictates. It is not about what we want to believe it is about reality. If you want to get arrested drive like an donkey with your herbs out in plain view, better yet puff on a spliff while doing so. This is not a game people...

[Restorium2]

Game over, we don't play games. We stand up for what is right, together. Don't spit on our soldiers as they return from war. Win, lose. or draw, they are fighting for us.

[CaveatLector]

This SFC person wants leo to throw me in jail if my marijuana is not locked out of my reach while I could line my dangerous drugs across my dash like a bunch of plastic Jesuses. This is the the same ignorance and prejudice that this whole battle is about! I ask who he represented ,he only reiterated what I had already clearly stated,I believe he's from that Canabius Prosecuters United outfit.

 

Don't speak with ignorance. You're sounding very uninformed and reminding me of joe cain. If you understand the lobbying process then you would understand the reasons behind, and strategy of, CPU's attack plan. Let's lay this to rest once and for all.

 

Ever since Bob Redden went into district court for his preliminary examination the courts have been calling for changing the law to make it clearer. You may not understand the reasons why it is claimed unclear because you may read one section of it independent of the rest. That isn't the way a statute is to be interpreted. You cannot just pick out one section that favors you and disregard the rest. The courts are charged with interpreting a statute based on the rules of statutory interpretation. Now, you may not like that the courts say it is "inartfully drafted" but that doesn't change the fact that the courts have repeatedly thrown pressure towards the legislature to "fix" the law.

 

The legislature has been under pressure to "fix" the law for years. Pressure by groups such as the MSP, Mich Sheriff's Asoc., the courts, PAAM, CDAM, Mich. AG, Chamber of Commerce, etc., etc. The list goes on and on and on. With all of that pressure the legislature WAS going to act. joe cain adopted the fallacy that the legislature would not act if he/we didn't enter into the mix. He operates in his own universe where his brand of logic makes sense to him. He figured if we didn't show up to the table that the legislature wouldn't do a thing. That is simply false. With all of those groups lobbying the legislature they were going to act. The mmma not showing up to give input was about the biggest misstep one could make.

 

CPU was formed by a group of people that saw the inaction. They pushed into the mix to give the mm community a voice in the discussion. Early on joe cain also went to Lansing to represent the mmma. His unprofessional conduct, described by legislators themselves, included screaming and yelling at hearings. He quickly marginalized himself, and the mmma, with his unprofessional actions. He was seen as crazy. Therefore not invited back. Shortly after that, and after reading, and hearing, how he acted in Lansing, I personally suggested that the mmma hire a lobbyist or spokesperson for the mmma. Someone who looked good, dressed well, and was articulate as well as skilled in negotiation and diplomacy. I also suggested that cain at least wear a suit if he were to go back to Lansing. That was one of my long line of bannings on this site. I was giving constructive criticism and cain would accept ZERO criticism from anyone, constructive or otherwise.

 

So, cain was out of the mix and CPU was still in. That angered cain and he basically accused CPU of all sorts of dastardly deeds. Rather than understanding why he was shut out, he chose to adopt the view that the only reason CPU was there was because they must be conspiring to do evil deeds. Afterall, why would poor joe cain be shut out and CPU was not? CPU did the smart thing and hired a lobbyist. That made cain more angry because he lost what he saw as HIS grip on the med mj community.

 

While all of cain's drama was going on there were still people from all of the groups listed, and more, lobbying for change. Therefore the legislature was bound to act. Draft bills were developed with input from the groups (that were overwhelming anti groups). CPU opposed the bills but when it became clear that the bills would go forward CPU made their best effort at softening the language in the bills. And it worked. Many of the bills were rewritten with more favorable language to patients. Some of the bills were elminated altogether or combined with others. Now if cain had his way then patients would have had NO voice in Lansing. He wanted CPU out of there. He was willing to let bills be written and his plan was to oppose those bills only in testimony at a hearing and once they hit the house floor. CPU's position was to chip away at the bills in an effort to make them more palatable JUST IN CASE they passed. So they had a comprehensive plan when they realized that bills WOULD be written. Soften up the bills by getting language changed or eliminated during the bill writing process and ALSO oppose the bills on the house floor. That way IF the bills were to pass then they would be a more patient-friendly version than if CPU would've stayed out of the mix.

 

Cain disagreed with strategy in that regard. And why? It made no sense to allow bills to be pushed through. He had some strange notion that if we didn't go to the table then the bills wouldn't have been written. Somehow he thought the legislature needed OUR blessing to write the bills. He disregarded the fact that all of the anti crowd was chewing the ear of a Republican controlled house. Yet somehow he thought that they wouldn't act without us there.

 

I could write more but this is getting old. People need to understand the history behind this and the reasons CPU was there. People need to understand that joe cain single-handedly shut the mmma out of the process with his juvenile behavior. He acted like a screaming bully so of course no one invited him back. But he won't tell that part of the story. He clearly is a type A personality and it was too bad he didn't know how to channel that to work for the mmma. cain has always been a loud-mouth bully and yet he accuses Komorn of literally making him deaf in his left ear from yelling at him. We all know that is untrue. Have you ever known cain to take anyting like that? Of course not.

 

Lastly, I am not trying to rehash things but it is important that people understand the history of all of this. cain spouted a lot of misinformation about CPU because he was jealous that they were embraced during the process. He figured that since he was the leader and representative of "25,000" patients that "how dare they not" include him. He figured that the reason he was excluded must have been because CPU was in bed with "Colorado" people or the like. So he made up a whole line if bs to that end. He never once had a single bit of proof about anything like that, he just needed an explanation as to why the mmma was excluded and he sure as heck didn't want to blame it on himself. But he excluded himself with his own behavior.

[CaveatLector]

Instead of getting angry at SFC for not representing you correctly, I suggest you get on the phone (after reading up on the talking points in the Operation 26% thread) call your Representative and represent yourself. Look out for numero uno. That is what grass roots is all about.

 

Take that advice regarding grass roots. Also, look around you. Zapatosunidos has been a consensus builder and an advocate for unity around here. THAT is what this movement needs! I am sure there are many times he would love to tell people to f-off but he has handled himself swimmingly here. That deserves big credit.

[+Malamute]

People need to also realize, it isnt just republicans that want to "clarify" these bills so to speak. About half the Democrats want to "fix" this law as well. They get lobbied by every single enemy we have including Bill Schuette via the Prosecutors. i would guess 10 full anti organizations have been up the legislators arse for a few years now. Add on top of that, the endless emails and phone calls from patients saying this law isnt working for them. I can't get medicine. Caregivers are ripping me off. I have to go to drug dealers. LARA won't get the cards out. Complain complain complain thatthe law isnt working. What in the hell do you think the legislators were going to do when ALL sides were saying "FIX THIS". We should have been calling and saying, " This law is the best fricken thing since sliced bread, do not change it". Didn't happen. The community was saying, this law isnt working. The endless list of anti's were saying this law is completely flawed. The government at all levels said this law isn't working. If you are surprised these bills ever started, you are a fool.

 

CPU had absolutely zero input in the original set of 8 bills that came out. That was written without ANY input from Pro medical groups. So CPU went to work. So far, 4 dead bills gone. You no longer are 100% required to inform your primary care physician, You no longer have to see your recommending physician for 6 months to a year and have them treat your qualifying condition for that time before they can write a recommendation. And that is just the Doctors. We opposed opposed and opposed the entire way through. Whether you like it or believe it, we defended the law to the extreme at all turns and never waivered on our positions. We have ALWAYS planned to fully oppose these bills even if we killed the most outrageous parts of the bills. We do not want to see the law made completely unusable. If you want someone to complain at, complain at the ACLU for being worthless twits the whole way through. They did not have your best interests at heart. They agreed to "reasonable cause" for access to the registry. Not us. Not ever. Warrant or pee off. By standing firm, they went from "in the course of official duting" to probable cause. If you don't think there is difference, you too are a fool. Is it still frucked? TOTALLY. But we never budged an inch.

 

Bottomline, we are exactly where we knew we would be. Opposing these dam bills as always. What was the plan? Bring the entire community together to oppose these bills TOGETHER. What have we done? Helped bring the entire community together to oppose these bills. Who was stopping the community from coming together because of serious mental issues? Joe Cain. We could have mounted this opposition months and months ago if not for Joe Cain. Good riddens Joe. Now we have almost every organization in the state working together to oppose the bills. FINALLY.

 

So, if any Cainettes would like to lie about CPU some more, please pm me. I am so sick of countering the endless lies said about us. I hope Joe burns in helll for what he did to the movement. People have no clue the damage that was done. I am hoping this new coalition can fix the damage. I hope we can get lucky and kill HB 4834. When i say lucky, i mean it. Put your heads in the sand some more and hope someone else does the work if you want to see them pass easily out of the house and rubber stamped in the Senate after adding even worse language to the bills.

 

CALL YOUR REP"S! Tell them to oppose HB 4834 SPECIFICALLY. Tell them it will strip Constitutional rights away and takes away equal treatment under the law. Hell, tell them anything to stop the bills. :-)

 

If YOU, yea YOU do nothing, these bills will pass. Get off your lazy asses, call, write or go meet your representative NOW. As in right now. There is no time but now. 1 week from now may be too late. Go. Go do it.

[wringly]

The softened language would have 0 effect on the number of intoxicated drivers,but would result in hundreds more patients being thrown in jail. How could I be against this,am I in faver of intoxicated driving,don't I love my family ? The faverable language is inconscequential. This is all taught in infiltrate 101. There is a disease permeating this site that causes tempery blindness,its called Cain Distain

[+Malamute]

Duh Wringly. How astute of you.

 

"CALL YOUR REP"S! Tell them to oppose HB 4834 SPECIFICALLY. Tell them it will strip Constitutional rights away and takes away equal treatment under the law. Hell, tell them anything to stop the bills. :-)

 

If YOU, yea YOU do nothing, these bills will pass. Get off your lazy asses, call, write or go meet your representative NOW. As in right now. There is no time but now. 1 week from now may be too late. Go. Go do it."

 

 

Temporary Blindness? O my foolish friend how naive you are.

[greenbuddha]

Now is the time to prepare for this 'November's' elections.

 

We can not afford to sit back and let others determine our future for us.

 

We can wave our fingers in each other's face and morn the results of the

'bills' that are being pushed at us (from BOTH Repubs AND Dems) because once elected into office those in Lansing CAN and WILL do as they please, for their own interests, not ours, as has been shown by their past decisions.

 

Our best NEXT effort, IMHO, should be the upcoming elections.

 

Because, I can guarantee, we, the MMJ community, are NOT going the like the results that will soon be coming out of Lansing.

 

Money and votes... Money and votes! The only thing that will be heard in Lansing.

[CaveatLector]

The softened language would have 0 effect on the number of intoxicated drivers,but would result in hundreds more patients being thrown in jail. How could I be against this,am I in faver of intoxicated driving,don't I love my family ? The faverable language is inconscequential. This is all taught in infiltrate 101. There is a disease permeating this site that causes tempery blindness,its called Cain Distain

The only disease I see is not seeing the forest for the trees. You may not like the softened language but you would've disliked the original language even more. Of that I can guarantee you. Regardless, the point isn't whether you like one specific item in a bill. No one likes that item. The point is that CPU did the best they could.

 

Furthermore, I think most everyone is over their "cain disdain." He isn't being brought up to bash at this point. His name is being brought up when necessary to explain the reasons behind where we are now. You will continue your CPU disdain until you realize what actually happened. That is why I explained it all.

 

And as far as cain goes, I think it is clear at this point that he is mentally ill. I'm not saying that to bash him. I'm saying that for his benefit. I think in some regard what he did wasn't his fault because of his mental illness.

 

He always had delusions of grandeur but his most recent delusions make his condition obvious. He proclaimed his most recent rally as a success. He said, "we won!" I don't know what he was using as his measuring stick in deciding what was a win vs. what was a loss but it seems that since the house didn't vote he declared a win. People in-the-know had been saying for days that the vote was not likely to take place on the 17th to begin with. cain himself insisted that it was and insisted that those claiming it wasn't were simply trying to "distract you," and "trick you." cain insisted that it would take place Tuesday morning. It didn't and his rally was at noon. Yet the fact that there was no vote was somehow a win for him.

 

Someone pointed out the parallels between cain and kim jong il, the North Korean dictator. Jong il would warn his people of an imminent danger from a foreign enemy, then when nothing would happen he would claim they were victorious in stopping the attack. That is a common tactic used to control people and get them to feel heightened confidence in you. Control the inflow of information so people don't know better and then tell them that they are in imminent danger from group x. cain kept a tight grip on this site and controlled the info, especially regarding CPU. That is the type of thing dictators do and that is exactly what cain does. He was famous for claiming victory from his concocted perceived threats. How do people not see that?

 

He declared victory and in typical joe cain style said that they had sent them running like scared rats or something. Show of hands---who thinks the legislators are "scared" of joe cain and his minions? It is so preposterous you almost have to believe he is trying to talk down to people by suggesting the legislators are running scared.

 

Someone else is famous for claiming "winning!" Did anybody see Charlie Sheen as a winner? His life was a mess and he was a drug addict. Real winner there huh? Now he admits he was a fool for saying those things. He got treatment and presumably is better equipped to handle life.

 

Anyway, as I said I'm not bashing cain I am pointing out facts. I sincerely hope he seeks mental health treatment. There is no shame in that. Someone who knows him well would really benefit him by getting him the help he needs. He very well could be a strong player in this movement if he gets the treatment he needs. He had some good ideas and he put time into the movement. I think with a little help from professionals he could be on his way to being an integral part of the movement again. I don't want to throw out the baby with the bath water. We CAN salvage cain but he has to want help for it to work. So can those of you close to him encourage him to seek it out?

[SFC]

The rollercoaster has taken another turn. All bills are still on the table and the negotiations have restarted. The positive news is the "letter" worked.

Edited April 20, 2012 by SFC

[purklize]

The rollercoaster has taken another turn. All bills are still on the table and the negotiations have restarted. The positive news is the "letter" worked.

 

Can you elaborate?

[Hayduke]

no, there will not be any elaboration because it is premature. as sfc said, our letter had an effect and there is more talk planned for near future. his message was one of hope. straightforward and complete in every way.

[purklize]

Who is talking? Dems and the GOP, or you guys and the House? "All bills are still on the table" didn't sound very good to me...

[Hayduke]

listen, shhhhh...

 

everyone talks to everyone. read the group release and use that for the basis of knowledge and you will be good to go. read the last three paragraphs. they need to fix 4851 and 4856. but that alone does not change objections to 4834. stop speculating publically saying "didn't sound very good to me", because it is just totally premature to say that when no new meetings have taken place... don't you think? And often speculation can lead to erroneous messaging entering the conversation. Have a nice weekend.

[SparklyBuds]

sounds to me like the bills are not coming up for vote yet, is what I think they're saying.

[purklize]

sounds to me like the bills are not coming up for vote yet, is what I think they're saying.

 

Oh, I see... I read it like "all options are on the table," meaning, it's still a go (instead of in the legal sense) - anything other than these bills headed for death is bad news IMO.

Edited April 21, 2012 by purklize

[CGorganic]

I am thankful to be able to hear the other side of the story (the mmma meltdown). This has been very confusing and your explanation sheds some badly needed light to fill in the blanks. There are always two sides to the story. Nice to understand how we got to this point.

Thnx

[GregS]

It is likely that there are not enough votes to pass any amendments. If there were, it would likely be over now. We threw a wrench into their works, but we nonetheless need to keep the heat on. We are our own lobby.

 

I responded today to the email that came from Rep. Cavanaugh's office, the same one that Malamute posted earlier. It goes like this:

 

What is the vague and ambiguous language you speak of? It is strange that this is consistently argued, but nothing is specified, unless you consider Mr. Schuette's clear and unambiguous and ridiculous take on the law. He is a known quantity who has every intention to stop this issue in its tracks by rendering the law unworkable or worse.

 

What could possibly entice anyone to believe that the courts will fall in line with any requirement to require the defense be presented to the trier of fact, when they have refused to conform to the law that presently states that no arrest shall ensue if an individual is duly registered and is otherwise compliant, or that in the event the defendant chooses an affirmative defense, the charges shall be dismissed at an evidentiary hearing BEFORE a case goes to trial when a defendant proves the section 8 requirements? Recall that after my sending this initial message, the Ingham County Prosecutor, for the Prosecutor's Association, testified that the courts cannot be expected to comply with the proposed amendment based on separation of powers. Put perhaps more clearly, the courts have been intransigent in the administration of the law and have every intention to continue in this. Maybe a better question would ask what the legislature can do to compel the courts to adhere to clearly written law, rather than adhere to the twisted agenda that COA Judge O'Connel wrote of in his hot winded and deluded diatribe, and what can be done to contain a berserk Attorney General? Even now their efforts are putting people in harm's way and prosecuting them for cannabis use with no objective test to determine impairment. The law is clear that we are not permitted to drive while impaired, and that must be determined within scientific disciplines, rather than speculation and ideology.

 

To redefine "enclosed, locked facility" is unnecessary and amounts to little more than a head fake. The balance of the amendments are more onerous. Please do not expect that throwing us a bone to appease us is acceptable when the text of the amendments and the testimony of the police and the courts, and some members of the legislature, is clearly intended to kick us out the door when the last vote is cast. The amendment restricting access to an enclosed, locked facility could not possibly be any more counter to the letter and intent of the Act. Clearly intended is the protection for the people to engage in a small cottage industry that is capable to provide for itself. Preventing patients and their caregivers from entering each others' facilities serves no purpose except to make it much more difficult for patients to engage in our constitutionally protected medical use. We do not intend to have that taken from us.

 

The medicine is inended to be supplied by a nework of patients and/or their caregivers freely to and from each other per Proposition 1. You would eliminate the choice of the electorate to permit us to freely cultivate, acquire, transfer, transport, distribute, and deliver it among and between each other. It is that provision that protects patients in all of these clearly defined activities that provides for the source of cannabis that has been argued is not spelled out in the law and facilitates it.

 

I am afraid the legislature dithered too long. It took a ballot initiative to grant what we need to enjoy the blessed relief the drug provides. Some argue that this is a messy situation, but it is the meddling by reactionary courts and law enforcement that are at the core of the problem. It is pertinent here to mention again the influence of asset forfeiture in motivating those institutions and agencies. We will no longer stand for that. Perhaps you would be so kind to introduce legislation to prohibit that practice.

 

The balance of the amendments are unacceptable, with the exception that registry be valid for two years rather than one. I will be happy to respond to the other issues at play.

 

There are more than three million motivated voters who agree with me and our ranks are closed.

 

Sincerely,

...

[SFC]

I want everyone to read the latest version of the bills and then pick three things that you absolutely cannot go along with from worst to less worst. I promise you everyone of your chosen problems has been discussed and we are working on a fix. We work on the fixes from most damaging to least damaging. Worst case is obviously access to the registry, right?

 

Keep in mind what we have been telling all of you. Now these lawmakers have a year invested in these bills, they appear to have no intention of walking away. They are very likely now looking at finding a way to make them acceptable enough to pass. Acceptable enough to us? That is the question we are trying to answer. Please understand just a few days ago many of them were very pissed off and their knee jerk reaction was pretty negative. Everyone keep the pressure on and maybe, just maybe we can come out of this in good shape..

[GregS]

Sorry. Playing ennie meenie minee mo is not acceptable. The law is weaved together. Removing parts are likely to compromise the remainder.

 

Tell them they need 76% and that we have 3 million votes. Please deliver this message to the Honorable Ken for me.

[GregS]

And yes, SFC is very close to the legislature, and is walking a thin line. I like him and respect him and will continue to watch to see that our interests are protected, as should we always and everywhere.