Lab Testing.

[Restorium2]

I don't think it is Northern Labs's responsibility to come up with the plan that solves everything. Are you saying if the state has to step in to regulate dispensaries, then you think all is lost?

It's better to have a good solution, that we can all agree on, before you talk about the problem to the point the legislature is hanging on your every word, because you are playing right into their hand/plan.

 

Of course regulation is an 'across the board' thing. How could you think it wouldn't be? All cannabis would have to be watched from sprout to useable bud to solve the problem that is being fabricated. A problem that wouldn't even be there if patients were very close to the grow like the law dictates. We are right back where we were when MDCH was trying to mandate inspections. We won that one, only to be put right back in the same position, by prominent people speaking out without a plan that works.

[Restorium2]

Where did I say or imply that the only solution is a state run system? I think you're creating a false dichotomy.

 

You didn't say it I did. I'm trying to give you a clue. You didn't have any plan that made any sense so you are left with that answer.

[Northern Lab]

Where did I say or imply that the only solution is a state run system? I think you're creating a false dichotomy.

 

You didn't say it I did. I'm trying to give you a clue. You didn't have any plan that made any sense so you are left with that answer.

 

So I'm supposed to come up with a plan to keep this unlikely event from happening? All by myself?

 

It's better to have a good solution, that we can all agree on, before you talk about the problem to the point the legislature is hanging on your every word, because you are playing right into their hand/plan.

 

Of course regulation is an 'across the board' thing. How could you think it wouldn't be? All cannabis would have to be watched from sprout to useable bud to solve the problem that is being fabricated. A problem that wouldn't even be there if patients were very close to the grow like the law dictates. We are right back where we were when MDCH was trying to mandate inspections. We won that one, only to be put right back in the same position, by prominent people speaking out without a plan that works.

 

The legislature couldn't care less about what I have to say. Please stop pretending that I have some sort of inside track. I'm probably more 'outside' than anyone here, especially you, Hayduke, Mal, SFC, etc.

 

Again, your logic here is faulty. Just look at the farmer's market vs supermarket scenario. It doesn't have to turn out like you say just because you say it will. Evidence from other markets seem to suggest that there will be one standard for cannabis sold in a commercial setting and no standards for cannabis sold farm direct.

[Restorium2]

You are avoiding telling us the plan where lab testing actually makes our medicine safer. You have no plan at all that would work. That's what is important. You outline a problem where you think you can help but you have no plan that can work. You outline a problem that the only solution is something NONE of us wants.

 

Think of the solution that works FIRST. What is it other than a state run system that watches the medicine from sprout to useable bud? Just produce the answer if you can. If you can't then what's the use outlining the problem?

[Northern Lab]

You are avoiding telling us the plan where lab testing actually makes our medicine safer. You have no plan at all that would work. That's what is important. You outline a problem where you think you can help but you have no plan that can work. You outline a problem that the only solution is something NONE of us wants.

 

Think of the solution that works FIRST. What is it other than a state run system that watches the medicine from sprout to useable bud? Just produce the answer if you can. If you can't then what's the use outlining the problem?

 

The solution is voluntary, self regulation, just like it's always been in any yet-to-be-regulated market. Show the state that we are perfectly capable of looking after ourselves and don't need their meddling.

 

We want good actors to do the right thing, the bad actors will reveal themselves, and people will vote with their feet and wallet.

[Restorium2]

The solution is voluntary, self regulation, just like it's always been in any yet-to-be-regulated market. Show the state that we are perfectly capable of looking after ourselves and don't need their meddling.

 

We want good actors to do the right thing, the bad actors will reveal themselves, and people will vote with their feet and wallet.

No, that's not a solution for anyone who thinks about it for a minute. Do you actually think, at this point, that anyone in the legislature thinks that dispensaries will self regulate? And how does showing there is a need for testing help us prove we don't need their meddling? That just doesn't make any sense at all.

[Northern Lab]

No, that's not a solution for anyone who thinks about it for a minute. Do you actually think, at this point, that anyone in the legislature thinks that dispensaries will self regulate? And how does showing there is a need for testing help us prove we don't need their meddling? That just doesn't make any sense at all.

 

I don't pretend to know what the legislature thinks.

 

Showing that testing is being performed voluntarily and any suspect meds are kept out of the marketplace is a positive step to avoiding state interference, IMO. You can disagree with me, but to imply that no testing at all discourages the state from stepping in is absolutely ludicrous.

[Restorium2]

I don't pretend to know what the legislature thinks.

 

Showing that testing is being performed voluntarily and any suspect meds are kept out of the marketplace is a positive step to avoiding state interference, IMO. You can disagree with me, but to imply that no testing at all discourages the state from stepping in is absolutely ludicrous.

You can't convince the legislature that anything voluntary is going to solve any real problem. Trust me on that one. So you don't outline a problem for them to fix when you know what they are going to do is unneeded and unwanted. That's the whole point. Just don't go there without a real plan that actually helps us.

[Northern Lab]

You can't convince the legislature that anything voluntary is going to solve any real problem. Trust me on that one. So you don't outline a problem for them to fix when you know what they are going to do is unneeded and unwanted. That's the whole point. Just don't go there without a real plan that actually helps us.

 

 

I didn't go to the legislature to advocate for testing services. I haven't asked them to 'fix' anything. There is nothing really wrong with our system that a little bit of publicized info can't solve (specifically dirty meds in dispensaries).

 

many legislators are free market purists. I assume they understand and accept the concept of self regulation just fine. I also don't pretend to know what they're going to do, but I doubt it would be something as drastic as you suggest. Heck, they could just specifically outlaw dispensaries altogether for all we know. That would certainly stop pesticide laden meds from being sold in dispensaries.

[Restorium2]

I didn't go to the legislature to advocate for testing services. I haven't asked them to 'fix' anything. There is nothing really wrong with our system that a little bit of publicized info can't solve (specifically dirty meds in dispensaries).

 

many legislators are free market purists. I assume they understand and accept the concept of self regulation just fine. I also don't pretend to know what they're going to do, but I doubt it would be something as drastic as you suggest. Heck, they could just specifically outlaw dispensaries altogether for all we know. That would certainly stop pesticide laden meds from being sold in dispensaries.

No, they aren't into self anything if you show them there's a problem. That's not how they roll. At least not these cats. They get all hissy when you don't let them 'fix' it. I see that's where we differ in opinion and where a few of us are clashing with you. Step back and think about who is probably in a postition to better understand what the legislature might want to do. Then you will understand why you are probably wrong here. You might want to listen to Mal and those that have a better idea how the legislature thinks. They wouldn't attack anyone for no reason. It's not an attack, it's an attempt to help you understand the problem.

[Northern Lab]

I get the impression that some folks see the mere existence of testing labs as an admission that there is a 'problem' in the system.

 

Am I mistaken in that impression?

[Restorium2]

I get the impression that some folks see the mere existence of testing labs as an admission that there is a 'problem' in the system.

 

Am I mistaken in that impression?

I'm sure that's true. But you aren't describing anyone I know, or anyone posting here.

[Northern Lab]

then what's the problem? I've already stated my opposition to mandatory testing and the reasoning behind it. I haven't articulated any problem in the system to the legislature.

 

I've specifically tried to avoid any publicity at all so my words cannot be misconstrued again. If you're complaining about loud mothed testing services clamoring for regulation, I will gladly join you in that complaint. I've even gone so far as to discredit one of the loudmouth testing labs with their own reports and passed my analysis along to Mal to help combat their narrative.

[Restorium2]

then what's the problem? I've already stated my opposition to mandatory testing and the reasoning behind it. I haven't articulated any problem in the system to the legislature.

 

I've specifically tried to avoid any publicity at all so my words cannot be misconstrued again. If you're complaining about loud mothed testing services clamoring for regulation, I will gladly join you in that complaint. I've even gone so far as to discredit one of the loudmouth testing labs with their own reports and passed my analysis along to Mal to help combat their narrative.

Good, thanks. If the shoe doesn't fit then don't be offended. I hope you understand now that the legislature isn't buying self regulation for the dispensaries. It's either state control from sprout to bud or nothing. It's something we need to understand as a community. It does sound good for some kind of product testing, but when you start to look at forming a plan, it all falls apart and you end up with only bad options.

[Northern Lab]

Good, thanks. If the shoe doesn't fit then don't be offended. I hope you understand now that the legislature isn't buying self regulation for the dispensaries. It's either state control from sprout to bud or nothing. It's something we need to understand as a community. It does sound good for some kind of product testing, but when you start to look at forming a plan, it all falls apart and you end up with only bad options.

 

We have to let the free market work like it's supposed to. Fully informed consumers won't frequent establishments that don't offer full disclosure (as much as possible) of what's in their meds.

 

This argument can be articulated in such a way that it appeals to a wide array of ideologies. You can also paint the opponents of a live and let die policy towards dispensaries as anti-free market, and we know nothing gets public dander up more than legislators who are anti free market. It's essentially an argument to keep their noses out of it and do nothing, which is what I think most of us would prefer.

[Restorium2]

Let's see if we can totally agree on a stance;

 

We don't need testing at all. Not a bit. But it's nice to have the option for several reasons. Testing should be made legal so we can all use it when we want to. It could lead to a better understanding of the plant.

[SFC]

Cut Northern a little slack Resto, he is not the MMJ Anti-christ. Also please do not take my question as an affront Northern, but what pesticides do show up on the test?

 

I think we all need to keep in mind that MJ is still schedule one, it is not like selling sweet corn on the side of the road. This is also medicine, medicine brings with it a whole host of potential complications. I think we all realize that whether we like it or not, change and regulation awaits us all. Some of us are trying like hell to slow that process down..

[Restorium2]

Cut Northern a little slack Resto, he is not the MMJ Anti-christ. Also please do not take my question as an affront Northern, but what pesticides do show up on the test?

 

I think we all need to keep in mind that MJ is still schedule one, it is not like selling sweet corn on the side of the road. This is also medicine, medicine brings with it a whole host of potential complications. I think we all realize that whether we like it or not, change and regulation awaits us all. Some of us are trying like hell to slow that process down..

A day late and a dollar short as the saying goes.... We are way past that. You didn't take the time to read today.

[Northern Lab]

Cut Northern a little slack Resto, he is not the MMJ Anti-christ. Also please do not take my question as an affront Northern, but what pesticides do show up on the test?

 

I think we all need to keep in mind that MJ is still schedule one, it is not like selling sweet corn on the side of the road. This is also medicine, medicine brings with it a whole host of potential complications. I think we all realize that whether we like it or not, change and regulation awaits us all. Some of us are trying like hell to slow that process down..

 

Agreed. We opened ourselves up to the possibility of regulation when we started calling it medicine.

 

I don't think it's wise to disclose everything we can test for on a public forum, for obvious reasons. But among our library of standards are permethrins, a number of organophosphates, some other pesticides commonly used on cannabis like Forbid, as well as some particularly nasty household pesticides that aren't intended for any crop application, much less cannabis.

 

I should mention that it is against federal law to use a pesticide on a crop that isn't approved for use on that crop. It's also illegal to grow cannabis under federal law, so take that for what it's worth. LOL.

 

Let's see if we can totally agree on a stance;

 

We don't need testing at all. Not a bit. But it's nice to have the option for several reasons. Testing should be made legal so we can all use it when we want to. It could lead to a better understanding of the plant.

 

I can agree with that to a point. I wish this were a perfect world with pure souls operating out of pure compassion, but that's obviously not the case.

[Northern Lab]

How does lab testing help people become more pure?

 

LOL. It doesn't. It could be used to help make sure the meds are pure, though.

[Northern Lab]

I think this is where you are wrong. This type of "lab testing" does not make for a good safety screening mechanism, even if it were determined one was needed, which I am skeptical of efficacy beyond a thorough visual and olfactory examination, and knowing the grower's practices.

 

Knowing the grower's practices in a dispensary environment is rare. It's awful difficult to impossible to detect pesticides by smell, taste, and sight. If they were that easy to detect, there wouldn't be a need for lab testing of food and medicine at all.

 

Admittedly we cannot test for everything, but I don't think we should make the perfect the enemy of the good. Some reliable pesticide screening in the dispensary environment is better than none, isn't it?

[Northern Lab]

This is the problem, I think, and a gas chromatograph won't solve it.

 

What will?

[Northern Lab]

It wasn't intended to be a trick question, but I cannot disagree with your answer.

 

All we can do is deal with reality and try to improve that reality.

[chernobyl]

i dont trust any of these testing labs or even these seed company's numbers. for one i know of a couple places in michigan that use liquid testing. gas chronography is superior. they have all this money to get a testing machine yet they dont go all out and get the best. how do we know these machines are accurate and if they are calibrated properly? how do we know the users even know what they're doing? then these seed companies are also all bs except i think tga subcool is actually accurate about their numbers because they seem more realistic. im just not about to give someone weed and a bunch of money to destroy it in a machine to give me some supposed numbers. i'd rather get a group of friends and give them some weed for free and have them test it by smoking/vaping or oral consumption.

 

i personally know of a place that has a testing facility in upper michigan. it is really cool but i still dont trust it. friend of mine had some maybe slightly above par weed and it tested in the mid 20s for thc. seemed like bs to me cause for one the weed was not very crystally, nor did it get me as high as many other strains. maybe it was the other cannabinoids. maybe these guys just dont know what they're doing.

 

i've had friends tell me they heard of weed in the 40s for thc. i laughed and said whoever said that is full of shiit or heard it from someone that was. it's just not possible. you weed would have to be like amost half crystal and half buds.

Edited November 27, 2012 by chernobyl

[SFC]

Chernobyl, I don't know who told you heavy trichomes(crystals) equals superior thc and granted it does seem like that would be the case but it is not. I have seen bud that looked like it was covered in velvet that was not impressive at all, I have seen bud with not much crystals at all that is crazy powerful.