Lab Testing.

[Northern Lab]

Science based because they look for things they are looking for, not looking for anything really medical. Looking for gold in all the wrong places.

 

LOL Wut?

[Northern Lab]

This is what we are trying to say, and I know you are one of the few lab owners that agrees with us. The technology itself has the capacity to be helpful, but the way it is being used by many "medical marijuana" labs in Michigan and elsewhere is full-on deceptive. Even calling it pseudoscience is generous.

 

The technology they use is really nothing like the equipment a real chromatography lab uses. It's a glorified bomb sniffer. Even when that tech is used in the airport to look for contraband, the detected substance is still subject to gas/liquid chromatography for confirmation and quantification.

[Restorium2]

LOL Wut?

You are looking for things that you have no idea about. And when you find them you say things about what you found that are not true. I thought I was clear. I guess you need to have a picture painted for you to understand. I don't care how scientific the equipment you are using is. It's like using a limo to rob a bank. Might as well have used your hoopdie for that action. The limo was overkill.

[Northern Lab]

You are looking for things that you have no idea about. And when you find them you say things about what you found that are not true. I thought I was clear. I guess you need to have a picture painted for you to understand. I don't care how scientific the equipment you are using is. It's like using a limo to rob a bank. Might as well have used your hoopdie for that action. The limo was overkill.

 

What's yer problem bro? Why are you attacking me?

[Restorium2]

Not again, please. Restorium, please stop using the word "you" to address all lab owners. It is just going to draw a good and valuable conversation off the rails (again).

Ah right, I see your point. I should have used the word 'lab owners' instead of you. My mistake. I have to let the shoe fit IF it does. I was wrong, thanks.

[Restorium2]

What's yer problem bro? Why are you attacking me?

Sorry, if you look back at the previous post, I made it less personal. I don't know why I switched to 'you'. I guess because I was answering your question to me. It was a grammatical error on my part that looked like an attack. If the shoe fits then wear it. I will make a better effort to leave out the you and let you decide for yourself if it applies to your work.

[Nemosity]

Here is what a fingerprint looks like:

 

 

Thanks for the chart PB; I see on there the plants chemical signature is from it's genome, & "environment and farming practices"

 

So my question seems to be getting closer to an answer; maybe the a lab owner could answer for me. If the above quoted line actually means that:

 

Grower A takes a sample of his (input strain here) and has it tested. Two weeks later Grower A takes a sample meds from a clone they grew, from a different grow cycle. Would the chemical profile be the same; it would seem to be the answer here is no. But, would the results be close enough to get a base line, or a generality of that strain albeit from that particular grower. A compiled list of all current and emerging strains with these profiles; from Grower A could help Grower A and their patients find strains as to tailor their meds for their own specific conditions.

 

Now; Let's say we have 10 Growers sending in samples for testing. For the sake of keeping it simple; say they all grow the same cut of the strain Grower A has already submitted multiple samples for testing. How close; if at all; would the results be in the chemical profile of the samples: And if they are all over the map; the game ends. BUT, if they are close; then a compiled list online; even if the labs were to charge for access to their testing data; like a subscription; this could help everyone, do the same for their medical conditions; registered and unregistered patients alike. It could even give us profiles of certain foods that could help the body use the medicine from the healing plant; i.e. mangos

 

Let's work together to figure this out and find a place for testing. Not all science is junk science; a lot is trial and error. That doesn't mean we stop and throw the baby out with the bath water; we just need to think this through together.

[peanutbutter]

The point is you didn't need a lab to make the chart, it's a lie for money, as confessed by the lab guy who made it. He said his lab can't confirm any of it so they lie and say they can.

 

I think you're talking about two or 3 different people.

 

1. The guy that said that. (in another state, a while ago)

2. The guy that printed that chart I posted. (here in Michigan)

3. The testing guy posting here. (also Michigan)

 

Is that correct?

[peanutbutter]

Grower A takes a sample of his (input strain here) and has it tested. Two weeks later Grower A takes a sample meds from a clone they grew, from a different grow cycle. Would the chemical profile be the same; it would seem to be the answer here is no.

 

Actually the top center chart is like a fingerprint.

 

Clones etc. overlay each other and match spike locations and intensities (relative to each other).

 

So if someone rips you and you already have one fingerprint, you can test a suspected bud to check the fingerprint in some familiar looking bud.

 

I've watched as such charts are placed over each other. They match. Just like a fingerprint.

[Restorium2]

I think you're talking about two or 3 different people.

 

1. The guy that said that. (in another state, a while ago)

2. The guy that printed that chart I posted. (here in Michigan)

3. The testing guy posting here. (also Michigan)

 

Is that correct?

Yup, the scammy lab guy from another state, Halent, had a chart that he lied about. He admitted he had to lie to make the chart. His chart says the same things yours does. So he's an admitted scam artist.

 

The testing guy posting here, Northern Lab, had nothing to do with any of it that I know of. If he's flashing these charts around then he's in the same boat as you and the scammy guy from the other state.

[Highlander]

DATA VALIDATION

 

Does anyone here know what that means? In terms of industry jargon?

 

It's when a lab or the person who collected the samples submits their standard operating procedures and the results to a third party who reviews the conditions, methods, and results and comes to an independent conclusion as to the validity of the data provided.

 

I'd like to hear from ANY lab that is game to undergo Level III data validation. If you're in the lab business, you should understand what this means.

 

Bring on the data.

 

If you can't cut this mustard, then you're no better than some guy on the internet making pretty, colorful charts.

[peanutbutter]

If he's flashing these charts around then he's in the same boat as you and the scammy guy from the other state.

 

How am I just like that scammy guy? Because I post a chart?

 

You tried to link in two other people to that scammy guy. Now you're trying to say I'm one also?

 

What lab do I run?

[peanutbutter]

DATA VALIDATION

 

Does anyone here know what that means? In terms of industry jargon?

 

It's when a lab or the person who collected the samples submits their standard operating procedures and the results to a third party who reviews the conditions, methods, and results and comes to an independent conclusion as to the validity of the data provided.

 

I'd like to hear from ANY lab that is game to undergo Level III data validation. If you're in the lab business, you should understand what this means.

 

Bring on the data.

 

If you can't cut this mustard, then you're no better than some guy on the internet making pretty, colorful charts.

 

Looking for ISO certifications?

[SFC]

He was speaking in General terms Pb.

[peanutbutter]

He was asking for specific items.

 

Medical use includes acquire, transfer and delivery.

 

4(i) protects anyone assisting in the medical use of marijuana.

Edited November 24, 2012 by peanutbutter

[SFC]

General terms as far as Scammy types lol

[peanutbutter]

General terms as far as Scammy types lol

 

Someone in another state says something and that makes me a scammer ..

[Highlander]

Looking for ISO certifications?

 

No, I'm looking for data validation.

 

Data validation is its own thing and has nothing to do with ISO certification. People in the lab business should know what this means. I would not expect anyone else to understand this question.

[peanutbutter]

DATA VALIDATION

 

Does anyone here know what that means? In terms of industry jargon?

 

It's when a lab or the person who collected the samples submits their standard operating procedures and the results to a third party who reviews the conditions, methods, and results and comes to an independent conclusion as to the validity of the data provided.

 

I'd like to hear from ANY lab that is game to undergo Level III data validation. If you're in the lab business, you should understand what this means.

 

Bring on the data.

 

If you can't cut this mustard, then you're no better than some guy on the internet making pretty, colorful charts.

 

OK .. back to this.

 

Who do you propose to be the judge?

 

Someone that is in the business?

[Highlander]

OK .. back to this.

 

Who do you propose to be the judge?

 

Someone that is in the business?

 

Data validation, by definition, is completed by a third party. Often another lab. There are also independent businesses that provide data validation services. It usually costs about 15-20% in addition to the testing for a lab to provide a Level III QA/QC data validation package along with their results. You might pay about this much again to have the third party review of the QA/QC documents to conduct the validation. There are several such businesses already operating in Michigan, and there is no reason why they could not validate cannabis data. The procedure is no different than their everyday work. Lab data needs to be validated, or at least should be validated, in order to stand as evidence. If the lab makes medical claims, then I think third-party validation is also in order.

 

Providing QA/QC packages for data validation is a great way for labs to claim legit results in an industry that has no required standards to follow. It also prevents the skewing problem that Restorium is concerned with.

Edited November 25, 2012 by Highlander

[peanutbutter]

Data validation, by definition, is completed by a third party. Often another lab. There are also independent businesses that provide data validation services. It usually costs about 15-20% in addition to the testing for a lab to provide a Level III QA/QC data validation package along with their results. You might pay about this much again to have the third party review of the QA/QC documents to conduct the validation. There are several such businesses already operating in Michigan, and there is no reason why they could not validate cannabis data. The procedure is no different than their everyday work. Lab data needs to be validated, or at least should be validated, in order to stand as evidence. If the lab makes medical claims, then I think third-party validation is also in order.

 

Providing QA/QC packages for data validation is a great way for labs to claim legit results in an industry that has no required standards to follow. It also prevents the skewing problem that Restorium is concerned with.

 

Yeah .. I'd like to see the result of this process.

[SFC]

I was thinking earlier it would also be cool to have tests of the popcorn buds versus colas. There are just a ton of variables in every aspect of this plant..

[Highlander]

Yeah .. I'd like to see the result of this process.

 

It should certainly dispell any concern associated with a colorful chart.

[SFC]

Another area of research I am very curious about would be how long a plant can be clone before any apreciable genetic drift. Does it actually drift at all?

[mibrains]

Another area of research I am very curious about would be how long a plant can be clone before any apreciable genetic drift. Does it actually drift at all?

 

this is a topic i am really interested in...

i feel like because i believe in evolution. i must also bow to the fact that my plants are changing genetically every second of every day. so if i clone my strawberry cough plant this week... in 2 weeks the environment will have changed and at least on a molecular level so would my cough. would it affect the plant? the value of the medicine?

i want to say yes.

i want to say.. every change in the plants environment will effect the plants DNA. it, much like any living thing is in a constant state of interaction with its environment. and every and any change will be reflected with future genetic reproductions.

the question in my mind is.. do the changes strengthen the characteristics of the cannabis or weaken it? i think i currently subscribe to the theory that if your environment is as good as it can be, then genetic evolution says the plant will "strive" to become better over time. but if your environment is less than perfect, the plant's DNA may "degrade".

but then wouldn't that degradation be a possible genetic expression that may actually in the end become that strains new genetic strength? an adaptation to the environment that in some unforeseen way expresses itself as a bonus of the effects?