Question For Folks Against Gun Control Laws

[nthlghts]

Interestingly tasers are legal for cpl holders as of 4/12. But they are not legal for a lawful citizen who wants a non-lethal weapon for home. The only conclusion is they could care less about human life. Although vests and tasers are not a right under the constitution, it shows what will happen to gun rights if the morons continue to believe the gun is the problem and ask government for help. Even though the proof of government over reach is clear and all around, still the sheeple line up. How many kids and adults have been killed on the Mexican border over drugs, the government answer was to give them more guns during fast and furious. This was an attempt to use guns to ban guns by Obama. This is the point where the lib's will say bush started the gun tracking, but fail to mention it was in cooperation with Mexico, and every gun was tracked. Obama did not notify Mexico and did not track but a couple of guns, the rest were supposed to be used to support his hidden agenda. So now we are paying lawsuits for the people killed because of Obama. Where is the outrage!

 

 

 

 

 

Why should I have to change a regulation to protect myself? Since when has self defense become a regulatable privelege?

 

Just because the cops take someone's body armor and charges them with breaking some obscure law does not mean they have done anything wrong.

 

Did you know tasers are illegal in MI? Do you think that is constitutional? Or do you even care....

[nthlghts]

To be honest the 1968 gun control act violates the 14th amendment, equal protection clause. A white collar felon will be allowed to restore their gun rights, but a felon who steals 100.00 will be banned for life. Sounds wrong to me!

[mrd]

I am saying this without taking a side because it is a confusing issue.

 

I do see why someone might want body armor I have seen advertised for sale long fashionable trench coats with kevlar lining for those (esp. Columbians who are in their upper class and worried about getting shot. (Their guns and drugs problems are an issue we can leave aside for now)..

 

In places without the proliferation of gun violence this kind of response seems to be not happening. Goes to cause.

 

I think it is perfectly reasonable for a person to want to protect themselves.

 

Now here's the other side of the problem as a non expert (me) might see it.

 

In the imaginary scenario we have someone who has high capacity assault guns. Lets give them several of the highest capacity clips available full of the appropriate ammunition for that gun. Now lets say this f%cker's mind has snapped and they blame someone and those around him or her with some imaginary bad intention against them or they want to take what they consider preemptive action against this imaginary foe. Or they want to kill classrooms of school children thinking this is for some bat sh#t crazy reason, think killing as many children as possible will set the scales of justice right in their twisted mind.

 

I am fairly sure that everybody reading this does not think that this is a good scenario.

 

Now the head of the NRA suggested that schools have guards. Ok lets throw in a guard for each school. ( I have no idea where the money for that is going to come from but lets suppose we do it. I have personally been in schools from one story elementary schools built in the 1950,s to multilevel high schools to colleges where a number of multilevel buildings are spread out across a fairly large area. I even went to one which was physically connected to one of the best art museums in the country. I am just trying to show that there are likely to be a variety of scenarios possible and many more that I do not have a clue about since I am not aware of them. So throw in what ever one's you have seen.

 

I am going to leave sporting events and such out simply cause it is too much info for this little talk and I really need a second cup of coffee.

 

Now imagine you are a reasonably equipped and trained guard at one of these varied schools. Maybe some schools are so big that they have several guards.

 

They are full of students.

 

Now imagine you are the guard and you have to face off with someone who has somehow gotton into the school is fully protected from head to foot with efficient body armor How are you going to stop this madman who is surrounded by innocent people whom he is spraying with bullets (nope they are not .22 bullets they are appropriate for assault rifles) How are you going to stop this person? Is it a case where even more innocent people are potentially killed?

 

Or you are a bank robber equally equipped. Hostages etc. These are some of the terrible scenarios that the police might have to think about.

 

So what is the answer to prevent this type of scene from playing out? I really do not know the answer. I think the proliferation of guns is the reason people feel they need armor. I am not sure I want to live in a place where this becomes the standard practice. As i have said previously 99. 99 % gun owners are responsible people people so lets not get into that.

 

So i am asking you no matter what your stand is on guns for realistic answers.

 

I would prefer that you think it out and give the best answer you can.

 

How do you stop a foe who is surrounded by people who has high capacity guns, lots of ammo, and the ability to withstand getting shot and is violently crazy? Not a pretty scene.

Edited February 18, 2013 by mrd

[Celliach]

Just to let you all know, owning body armor is NOT illegal according to the federal government.

http://www.safeguardclothing.com/body-armor-us-laws/

 

 

Body Armor Law

Before purchasing any body armor, it is important for you to consider if it is legal for you to purchase and wear the body armor in your locality (although it is widely legal to wear and purchase body armor).

There are some restrictions that have been set forth by the United States government, as well as state level government that restrict the purchase of body armor to certain individuals. It is important for you to take the time to determine if the body armor can legally be purchased in your area. You will be ultimately accountable for ensuring that you are legally allowed to own and wear body armor in your locality.

The only way to be sure that you are allowed to purchase and wear armor is to speak with your local authority.

The state of Connecticut prohibits residents from buying or selling body armor that does not involve direct face to face contact. Connecticut will allow officers, the military, or police departments to buy body armor over the internet, but there are certain stipulations that must be met before the purchase will be deemed legal. If you live in Connecticut, you should find out what conditions must be met for you to make a legal purchase of the body armor.

If you have been convicted of a felony anywhere in the United States, you are likely to be prohibited from buying, owning, or wearing body armor of any kind. If a felon is caught with body armor, he or she could be subject to stiff penalties.

When purchasing body armor, a background or criminal history is not run on the individual buying the body armor. That means that you need to be sure that you are legally allowed to purchase the body armor before making the final purchase. If you are caught with body armor and have a felonious criminal record, you will be held responsible for owning the body armor and will have to accept any and all consequences.

You can call your local police station to find out what the laws regarding the purchase of body armor in your locality are. This is an important step for you to take, and will ensure that you are following all of the necessary laws.

It is generally the case that law-abiding citizens are legally allowed to purchase and wear the body armor, but we thoroughly recommend that all customers seek advice from their local authority first.

[Dr. Bob]

Interestingly tasers are legal for cpl holders as of 4/12. But they are not legal for a lawful citizen who wants a non-lethal weapon for home. The only conclusion is they could care less about human life. Although vests and tasers are not a right under the constitution, it shows what will happen to gun rights if the morons continue to believe the gun is the problem and ask government for help. Even though the proof of government over reach is clear and all around, still the sheeple line up. How many kids and adults have been killed on the Mexican border over drugs, the government answer was to give them more guns during fast and furious. This was an attempt to use guns to ban guns by Obama. This is the point where the lib's will say bush started the gun tracking, but fail to mention it was in cooperation with Mexico, and every gun was tracked. Obama did not notify Mexico and did not track but a couple of guns, the rest were supposed to be used to support his hidden agenda. So now we are paying lawsuits for the people killed because of Obama. Where is the outrage!

 

Interesting that you feel restricting taser use to CPL holders is strange. CPL holders have been specifically trained in firearms and the laws regulating their use. What better group to give some extras to? Police officers have to taser each other before they are allowed to carry one. Do you find that strange?

 

Dr. Bob

[shredder0911]

Interesting that you feel restricting taser use to CPL holders is strange. CPL holders have been specifically trained in firearms and the laws regulating their use. What better group to give some extras to? Police officers have to taser each other before they are allowed to carry one. Do you find that strange?

 

Dr. Bob

Tell them to shoot for the temporal lobe area during testing! hehe

[Dr. Bob]

I am saying this without taking a side because it is a confusing issue.

 

I do see why someone might want body armor I have seen advertised for sale long fashionable trench coats with kevlar lining for those (esp. Columbians who are in their upper class and worried about getting shot. (Their guns and drugs problems are an issue we can leave aside for now)..

 

In places without the proliferation of gun violence this kind of response seems to be not happening. Goes to cause.

 

I think it is perfectly reasonable for a person to want to protect themselves.

 

Now here's the other side of the problem as a non expert (me) might see it.

 

In the imaginary scenario we have someone who has high capacity assault guns. Lets give them several of the highest capacity clips available full of the appropriate ammunition for that gun. Now lets say this f%cker's mind has snapped and they blame someone and those around him or her with some imaginary bad intention against them or they want to take what they consider preemptive action against this imaginary foe. Or they want to kill classrooms of school children thinking this is for some bat sh#t crazy reason, think killing as many children as possible will set the scales of justice right in their twisted mind.

 

I am fairly sure that everybody reading this does not think that this is a good scenario.

 

Now the head of the NRA suggested that schools have guards. Ok lets throw in a guard for each school. ( I have no idea where the money for that is going to come from but lets suppose we do it. I have personally been in schools from one story elementary schools built in the 1950,s to multilevel high schools to colleges where a number of multilevel buildings are spread out across a fairly large area. I even went to one which was physically connected to one of the best art museums in the country. I am just trying to show that there are likely to be a variety of scenarios possible and many more that I do not have a clue about since I am not aware of them. So throw in what ever one's you have seen.

 

I am going to leave sporting events and such out simply cause it is too much info for this little talk and I really need a second cup of coffee.

 

Now imagine you are a reasonably equipped and trained guard at one of these varied schools. Maybe some schools are so big that they have several guards.

 

They are full of students.

 

Now imagine you are the guard and you have to face off with someone who has somehow gotton into the school is fully protected from head to foot with efficient body armor How are you going to stop this madman who is surrounded by innocent people whom he is spraying with bullets (nope they are not .22 bullets they are appropriate for assault rifles) How are you going to stop this person? Is it a case where even more innocent people are potentially killed?

 

Or you are a bank robber equally equipped. Hostages etc. These are some of the terrible scenarios that the police might have to think about.

 

So what is the answer to prevent this type of scene from playing out? I really do not know the answer. I think the proliferation of guns is the reason people feel they need armor. I am not sure I want to live in a place where this becomes the standard practice. As i have said previously 99. 99 % gun owners are responsible people people so lets not get into that.

 

So i am asking you no matter what your stand is on guns for realistic answers.

 

I would prefer that you think it out and give the best answer you can.

 

How do you stop a foe who is surrounded by people who has high capacity guns, lots of ammo, and the ability to withstand getting shot and is violently crazy? Not a pretty scene.

 

Excellent post. But one thing that isn't mentioned. Actually two.

 

Why are you facing an opponent that has the ability to obtain all that offensive firepower? Imagine instead he/she is armed with a revolver with 6 shells, or a machete, or a squirt gun. That is a game changer is it not?

 

Second why are YOU, and average armed citizen off the street, facing down this maniac in a school? i would think that would be a trained, properly armed and equipped guard with body armor and all the toys everyone here seems to think they would need. You know, like a police officer, the guys we hire, train, and equip as a community to deal with that sort of urban combat.

 

My mom taught me something when I was young. Don't hammer in a nail with a crescent wrench. That is what a hammer is for. Don't expect to handle a situation like that unless THAT IS YOUR JOB and you are trained and equipped to do it. Teachers are teachers, not gunfighters or cops.

 

Dr. Bob

[cristinew]

Paranoia is in bloom,

The PR, transmissions will resume

They'll try to, push drugs that keep us all dumbed down

And hope that, we will never see the truth around

(So come on)

 

Another promise, another seed

Another, packaged lie to keep us trapped in greed

And all the, green belts wrapped around our minds

And endless, red tape to keep the truth confined

(So come on)

 

They will not force us

They will stop degrading us

They will not control us

We will be victorious

So come on

 

Interchanging mind control

Come let the, revolution takes its toll

If you could, flick the switch and open your third eye

You'd see that, we should never be afraid to die

(So come on)

 

Rise up and take the power back

It's time the, fat cats had a heart attack

They know that, their time's coming to an end

We have to, unify and watch our flag ascend

(So come on)

 

They will not force us

They will stop degrading us

They will not control us

We will be victorious

So come on

 

Hey, hey, hey, hey

Hey, hey, hey, hey

Hey, hey, hey, hey

 

They will not force us

They will stop degrading us

They will not control us

We will be victorious

So come on

• 
  

[Dr. Bob]

Cool post. I wish I could reduce my position to the lyrics of a music video.

 

Unfortunately it is complicated and requires dedicated thought and discussion.

 

Dr. Bob

[SFC]

Bob, I am willing to bet your rifle is on the banned list Feinstein is putting forward. Granted it doesn't effect those of us that already have them, but I don't believe that to be fair.

[Dr. Bob]

Bob, I am willing to bet your rifle is on the banned list Feinstein is putting forward. Granted it doesn't effect those of us that already have them, but I don't believe that to be fair.

 

I am sure it is. It was in 1994 (mine was imported 1986, stamped right on it). I followed the law when I got it. If the law changes so that I can't purchase one, I'll follow that law too. Nothing unfair about that, any more that it would be unfair for me to not be able to walk into a hardware store an buy a tommy gun like my grandfather could. Things change, we follow the law.

 

Dr. Bob

Edited February 18, 2013 by Dr. Bob

[Dr. Bob]

This conversation is distracting us from important issues regarding medical marijuana. I'm not going to participate any more because my attention is needed elsewhere.

 

Dr.Bob

[knucklehead bob]

This conversation is distracting us from important issues regarding medical marijuana. I'm not going to participate any more because my attention is needed elsewhere.

 

Dr.Bob

Been that way since the O P .

[GregS]

Dunno. The topic of the thread is pretty plain. Sorry you missed it.

 

This is an exercise that is intended to demonstrate the inalbility for sarcasm to translate well online.

Edited February 19, 2013 by GregS

[nthlghts]

I am completely aware of the cpl training. You do not think it is strange, that the would be first gun owning fool cant buy a non-lethal solution. I bet some people would opt for the taser. The first round from my 12ga is a rubber slug, I feel this gives me the edge on SD, although it is possible to die with both non-lethal solutions.

 

 

 

Interesting that you feel restricting taser use to CPL holders is strange. CPL holders have been specifically trained in firearms and the laws regulating their use. What better group to give some extras to? Police officers have to taser each other before they are allowed to carry one. Do you find that strange?

 

Dr. Bob

[cristinew]

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Michigan-Firearms-Freedom-Act/181739621949741

[cristinew]

Please contact your State Senators and and State Representatives urge them to vote pro-gun/pro-freedom and pass SB-63,The Firearms Freedom Act; SB-49, The Gun Owners Privacy Protection bill; and SB-60 without delay!

 

 

SB-63, the Firearms Freedom Act, and SB-49, The Gun Owners Privacy Protection bill, are both scheduled to be up in the State Senate for a crucial vote tomorrow.

 

this will pass I have urged my democratic house member to support it and also my republican senate co sponsor

Edited February 19, 2013 by cristinew

[mike garcia]

I love the fact that I was born in a country were if a person feel the need to , own with in the laws of the united states of America and not to unlawfully harm nor kill outside the laws,. Not in SCHOOLS !!

[mrd]

I am completely aware of the cpl training. You do not think it is strange, that the would be first gun owning fool cant buy a non-lethal solution. I bet some people would opt for the taser. The first round from my 12ga is a rubber slug, I feel this gives me the edge on SD, although it is possible to die with both non-lethal solutions.

 

I could be wrong but you seem to be the first person in this ongoing conversation who has thought about using a (probably) non lethal slug first. It makes sense, it might reduce hesitation which I understand might be important. It also might knock the person into the next county (I do understand they can kill in certain situations.) but I assume that in the envisioned situation you are in a situation where the use of a firearm is appropriate.I think there is a lot of Die Hard type extremists here who do not think that it is terrible to take another's life. Of course your following shots would not be as "gentle".Good for you. (Therefore I will assume that you do not smoke schwag! Those who have followed this will get the joke.)

 

Remember I am not pro gun. I do understand there are other views than mine. . I am definitely pro thinking about and having a dialogue on gun use.

[1lluminated1]

This conversation is distracting us from important issues regarding medical marijuana. I'm not going to participate any more because my attention is needed elsewhere. Dr.Bob

 

I've got news for you bob! History has shown government preys on the weak. Why do you think they harass mmj patients but leave the coke dealers alone? Why do they put cancer patients in prison while arming Mexican Cartel? They want to disarm us to protect themselves for the crimes they have and WILL commit!

 

This is a very important issue!

 

Why would you give our bureaucrats a total monopoly on arms? How could you be so ignorant of history with all those long boring years of school?

 

The simple reality is the American people are preparing for war.... The government is preparing for war......The world is preparing for war!

 

Look at these facts:

 

-Over 65 million guns have been purchased since the Obummer took office in 2009!

 

-Every ammunition company is running at 100% Fulfilling orders for government and civilian demand.

 

-There are over 300 million guns in America.

 

-The DHS bought enough hollow point ammo to wage a 30 year war according to Vietnam usage statistics

 

-Drones are being authorized to fly over America with abilities to spy on entire cities.

 

-NDAA classifies all americans as enemy combatants.

 

Bob don't ignore the facts. Refute any of the widely known info above and I'll join your side. Until then I'll continue speaking in defense of our constitutional rights and against government tyranny.

[1lluminated1]

Hey cristine thanks for sharing the lyrics to the song It's my favorite

[nthlghts]

the rubber slug is there for situations where killing someone is inappropriate and if needed confirms my intent of self defense.

 

 

I could be wrong but you seem to be the first person in this ongoing conversation who has thought about using a (probably) non lethal slug first. It makes sense, it might reduce hesitation which I understand might be important. It also might knock the person into the next county (I do understand they can kill in certain situations.) but I assume that in the envisioned situation you are in a situation where the use of a firearm is appropriate.I think there is a lot of Die Hard type extremists here who do not think that it is terrible to take another's life. Of course your following shots would not be as "gentle".Good for you. (Therefore I will assume that you do not smoke schwag! Those who have followed this will get the joke.)

 

Remember I am not pro gun. I do understand there are other views than mine. . I am definitely pro thinking about and having a dialogue on gun use.

[cristinew]

don't forget to contact your Michigan state rep and support SB-63, the Firearms Freedom Act, and SB-49,

[nthlghts]

It is called complacency with comfortable lives. That is how the sh.t hits the fan.

 

 

I've got news for you bob! History has shown government preys on the weak. Why do you think they harass mmj patients but leave the coke dealers alone? Why do they put cancer patients in prison while arming Mexican Cartel? They want to disarm us to protect themselves for the crimes they have and WILL commit!

 

This is a very important issue!

 

Why would you give our bureaucrats a total monopoly on arms? How could you be so ignorant of history with all those long boring years of school?

 

The simple reality is the American people are preparing for war.... The government is preparing for war......The world is preparing for war!

 

Look at these facts:

 

-Over 65 million guns have been purchased since the Obummer took office in 2009!

 

-Every ammunition company is running at 100% Fulfilling orders for government and civilian demand.

 

-There are over 300 million guns in America.

 

-The DHS bought enough hollow point ammo to wage a 30 year war according to Vietnam usage statistics

 

-Drones are being authorized to fly over America with abilities to spy on entire cities.

 

-NDAA classifies all americans as enemy combatants.

 

Bob don't ignore the facts. Refute any of the widely known info above and I'll join your side. Until then I'll continue speaking in defense of our constitutional rights and against government tyranny.

[Dr. Bob]

After reviewing your previous posts on your 'position' I really don't feel the need to respond to the majority of your challenges, but I thought this one deserved some comments, even though just to point out a few things. As a side note, I really don't want you on my side, I want you right where you are...you make my position look better.

 

I've got news for you bob! History has shown government preys on the weak. Why do you think they harass mmj patients but leave the coke dealers alone? Why do they put cancer patients in prison while arming Mexican Cartel? They want to disarm us to protect themselves for the crimes they have and WILL commit!

 

This is a very important issue! I agree, but in this forum my time is needed elsewhere.

 

Why would you give our bureaucrats a total monopoly on arms? How could you be so ignorant of history with all those long boring years of school? Total monopoly? Do you simply make these things up? We are all gun owners and no one ever said anything about disarming, and the gov has always had the ability to regulate, no changes here. We were simply discussing the pro's and con's of proposed regulations.

 

The simple reality is the American people are preparing for war.... The government is preparing for war......The world is preparing for war! Ok Mr. Turner Diaries, enjoy your bunker.

 

Look at these facts:

 

-Over 65 million guns have been purchased since the Obummer took office in 2009! So? What is your point, is that high, low, or a routine amount?

 

-Every ammunition company is running at 100% Fulfilling orders for government and civilian demand. Good for them.

 

-There are over 300 million guns in America. Not sure if this is accurate but seems about right.About one per person. We have 5 in my family and about 10-12 firearms and this is along those lines.

 

-The DHS bought enough hollow point ammo to wage a 30 year war according to Vietnam usage statistics. Don't know where you got your stats or how you decided this ammunition was for 'war' vs routine enforcement or target practice. How many bullets per KIA in Viet Nam? I read someone around 50,000 so your numbers for a '30 year war' on the people are rather suspect.

 

-Drones are being authorized to fly over America with abilities to spy on entire cities. Ok, gosh you mean we can see cities from the air or space? What are drones used for?

 

-NDAA classifies all americans as enemy combatants. LOL, Is my name on a list as an enemy combatant? Is yours? What is the criteria to be declared an 'enemy combatant'? Do we qualify?

 

Bob don't ignore the facts. Refute any of the widely known info above and I'll join your side. Until then I'll continue speaking in defense of our constitutional rights and against government tyranny. Ain't it great any moron can get on a soapbox and speak his mind in this country? God bless the constitution. Fortunately the same constitution does not require us to buy your logic.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Dr. Bob