If This Is True Sub Terra Llc's Been Growing Mass Amonts Here In The Up

[Zerocool]

This photo taken April 4, 2012, shows growing chamber manager Sharon Shilman weighing and packaging seeds from plants grown in Sub Terra LLC's underground chamber in a former copper mine in White Pine, Mich., in the Upper Peninsula. Prairie Plant Systems Inc. a Canadian biotechnology company that manufactures pharmaceuticals derived from harvestable plants grown in a controlled environment grows and supplies nearly all of the medical marijuana in Canada. It's US subsidiary, Sub Terra LLC wants to apply the same techniques to Michigan, using a 35 square mile underground chamber in a former copper mine in White Pine, Mich., in the Upper Peninsula. The company already grows a legume and a tuber used to manufacture pharmaceuticals including one that is going into pre clinical trial to be used to treat Severe Combined Immunodeficiency also known as Bubble Boy Syndrome. (AP Photo/ Detroit Free Press

http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/viewart/20131110/NEWS04/311100055/Michigan-legislators-propose-pharmacy-marijuana-sales

[t-pain]

you're saying some kids should take some bolt cutters up to white pine mi and find a mine full of plants?

[pic book]

and now they intend to set-up 26 state-approved disps and grow their own, and bury our grow rights.

[bobandtorey]

and now they intend to set-up 26 state-approved disps and grow their own, and bury our grow rights.

i guess so

[bobandtorey]

“Educate in order to Medicate”

[trichcycler]

I hope kids don't find it, and destroy property. We see how that crap works out in cali, and others areas too. People get hurt, and it reflects on all of us and our craft.

 

 

"The measure essentially would create a second medical pot system in the state, one that proponents say would not interfere with the existing law under which patients can grow their own pot or obtain it from caregivers." 

[Guanotea1]

Been growing mass amounts of plant material? Probably yes. Of marijuana? probably not.

How stupid would you have to be as an already wealthy company to do this in Michigan right now this moment, and then give us the location of their grow?

 

I think there is a lot of fear mongering going on over these and other new developments. In fact, all of this can be an opportunity for some of us to step up. If all we have to do to expand our grow rights is to buy more licenses (at the same or reasonable costs per patient served / plant grown), some tax stamps, operate in a commercially zoned area, submit to inspection, and submit to and pay for independent product testing I'm game. It's a small price to pay and a big step up from the system we got going now. Look at how far we've come already! There has been some setbacks, yes, but the arc of this story is very very positive!

 

Potential Pros of New Developments:

Allowances for field grown marijuana + hemp

Allowances for much larger grows

Allowances for dispensories

Better quality medicine due to enforced inspection and product testing

Lower price due to scales of operation

Ability to hire outside labor

Less tax problems from a tax system developed with MJ in mind

Fewer people going to jail

More weed! More competition!

 

Cons

There is the potential for licensing laws to be abusive to the little guys, bought and paid for by big corporations only

The potential for inspection / product testing laws to be abusive, making it impossible for small businesses to stay in accordance with new laws.

A small potential for individual caregiver (the 5/72 system) to be elimated, patient grow rights are not going away ever IMO. States don't like voting away individual license money from themselves especially in programs that operate on a surplus.

 

There are 10 million people in Michigan, and perhaps 10-30K legal caregivers (0.3% of the population, max), the remaining 100K people in the MMMP program make up just 1% of the population. There are countless illicit growers, dealers, and users.  Even if we only consider the 5 million voters in Michigan our numbers are few. 

 

This stuff doesn't happen overnight, we are in the thick of it now, and our vote/voice does count. I will protest any law that descriminates unfairly based on the scale of operation, but other than that?

 

No more excuses, no more complaining. Times are changing. If nothing else, there will always be the black market, as the one burgeoning in Colorado. I would rather not see a bunch of us go that way, that would mean getting paid today's prices (probably less) at yesterdays risk level (extremely high). As time goes on this will become less and less of a big deal. Do you know how many people brew their own beer to give to their friends, family, sell to neighbors and local liquor stores? It's probably not technically legal, but the DEA isn't exactly knocking down doors with battering rams for it either.

 

I don't know when, and it won't all be pleasant, but this is all simply going to happen. The writing is on the wall, get used to it, make plans and arrangements if you need to. Some of us will need to go, maybe even me, others will rise to the top. If I do go I will mourn the loss, for about 10 minutes, then go do something else.

 

I reckon that anyone that is able to setup a successful grow operation and run it for years and years is able to do a lot of things - if they put their minds to it.

In the process of all this I've built rooms, installed electrical panels and AC units to code, learned a great deal about biology, selection, plant/general production systems, scheduling. It was every bit as educational as my last role in production management, maybe even more so.

 

It's not even like we have some big awesome money making law on our hands as it stands today. It's inefficient and horrible, and even a silly billy outproduce the needs of 5 patients in a house, and a pro can outproduce the needs of 5 in a studio apartment. We are fighting over scraps like dogs, and that is exactly what big corporations want us to keep doing. 

[Zerocool]

Been growing mass amounts of plant material? Probably yes. Of marijuana? probably not.

How stupid would you have to be as an already wealthy company to do this in Michigan right now this moment, and then give us the location of their grow?

 

I think there is a lot of fear mongering going on over these and other new developments. In fact, all of this can be an opportunity for some of us to step up. If all we have to do to expand our grow rights is to buy more licenses (at the same or reasonable costs per patient served / plant grown), some tax stamps, operate in a commercially zoned area, submit to inspection, and submit to and pay for independent product testing I'm game. It's a small price to pay and a big step up from the system we got going now. Look at how far we've come already! There has been some setbacks, yes, but the arc of this story is very very positive!

 

Potential Pros of New Developments:

Allowances for field grown marijuana + hemp

Allowances for much larger grows

Allowances for dispensories

Better quality medicine due to enforced inspection and product testing

Lower price due to scales of operation

Ability to hire outside labor

Less tax problems from a tax system developed with MJ in mind

Fewer people going to jail

More weed! More competition!

 

Cons

There is the potential for licensing laws to be abusive to the little guys, bought and paid for by big corporations only

The potential for inspection / product testing laws to be abusive, making it impossible for small businesses to stay in accordance with new laws.

A small potential for individual caregiver (the 5/72 system) to be elimated, patient grow rights are not going away ever IMO. States don't like voting away individual license money from themselves especially in programs that operate on a surplus.

 

There are 10 million people in Michigan, and perhaps 10-30K legal caregivers (0.3% of the population, max), the remaining 100K people in the MMMP program make up just 1% of the population. There are countless illicit growers, dealers, and users.  Even if we only consider the 5 million voters in Michigan our numbers are few. 

 

This stuff doesn't happen overnight, we are in the thick of it now, and our vote/voice does count. I will protest any law that descriminates unfairly based on the scale of operation, but other than that?

 

No more excuses, no more complaining. Times are changing. If nothing else, there will always be the black market, as the one burgeoning in Colorado. I would rather not see a bunch of us go that way, that would mean getting paid today's prices (probably less) at yesterdays risk level (extremely high). As time goes on this will become less and less of a big deal. Do you know how many people brew their own beer to give to their friends, family, sell to neighbors and local liquor stores? It's probably not technically legal, but the DEA isn't exactly knocking down doors with battering rams for it either.

 

I don't know when, and it won't all be pleasant, but this is all simply going to happen. The writing is on the wall, get used to it, make plans and arrangements if you need to. Some of us will need to go, maybe even me, others will rise to the top. If I do go I will mourn the loss, for about 10 minutes, then go do something else.

 

I reckon that anyone that is able to setup a successful grow operation and run it for years and years is able to do a lot of things - if they put their minds to it.

In the process of all this I've built rooms, installed electrical panels and AC units to code, learned a great deal about biology, selection, plant/general production systems, scheduling. It was every bit as educational as my last role in production management, maybe even more so.

 

It's not even like we have some big awesome money making law on our hands as it stands today. It's inefficient and horrible, and even a silly billy outproduce the needs of 5 patients in a house, and a pro can outproduce the needs of 5 in a studio apartment. We are fighting over scraps like dogs, and that is exactly what big corporations want us to keep doing. 

well you must be for this bill and lots of fokes might not be able to get meds if they take our right to grow are own read the bill   BEFORE

 

 5  ISSUING A CARD TO AN ELIGIBLE PATIENT UNDER THIS SECTION, THE

 

 6  DEPARTMENT SHALL DETERMINE WHETHER THE INDIVIDUAL HAS PREVIOUSLY

 

 7  BEEN CONVICTED OF ILLEGALLY MANUFACTURING, CREATING,

 

 8  DISTRIBUTING, POSSESSING, OR USING A CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE OR

 

 9  CONSPIRING OR ATTEMPTING TO MANUFACTURE, CREATE, DISTRIBUTE,

 

10  POSSESS, OR USE A CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE IN THIS STATE OR

 

11  ELSEWHERE. IF THE INDIVIDUAL HAS PREVIOUSLY BEEN CONVICTED OF

 

12  ILLEGALLY MANUFACTURING, CREATING, DISTRIBUTING, POSSESSING, OR

 

13  USING A CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE OR CONSPIRING OR ATTEMPTING TO

 

14  MANUFACTURE, CREATE, DISTRIBUTE, POSSESS, OR USE A CONTROLLED

 

15  SUBSTANCE IN THIS STATE OR ELSEWHERE, THE DEPARTMENT SHALL NOT

 

16  ISSUE A REGISTRATION CARD TO THAT INDIVIDUAL.  

[Kingdiamond]

I see this mirror program as a veiled attempt to undermine the current system its far from a done deal because I don't see the feds rescheduling cannabis anytime soon .

[Guanotea1]

King diamond I am not in favor of making the law more restrictive, the way I'd always vote is for increasingly less restrictions and government regulations. In fact I think the right number of laws regarding cannabis is exactly 0, I just see the writing on the wall, and what I want is simply not gonna happen when all this money is up for grabs. I instead want us as a community to wage a limited battle on fronts we might actually win, as listed in cons: 

 

1) There is the potential for licensing laws to be abusive to the little guys, bought and paid for by big corporations only

2) The potential for inspection / product testing laws to be abusive, making it impossible for small businesses to stay in accordance with new laws.

3) A small potential for individual caregiver (the 5/72 system) to be elimated

 

Not letting people grow because of a past infraction of possessing marijuana is incredibly stupid and a perfect example of #1. They know a great deal of us have possession charges on record and this is another way to keep us out. Not dissimilar to the way voter ID laws are openly being used to keep the disenfranchised from the voting box. Law makers are unbelievably devious.

 

In fact the way the law is written now (not allowing anyone to grow who had a felony drug charge including one involving MJ) is abusive. But there are practical reasons for that part of our bill that are difficult to argue. However there is no reason to tighten up that section of the law any further.

 

Thank you for the quote, I'm not a lawyer and I do have some trouble seeing all the wrinkles in bills. 

[abe supercro]

Is there a single positive element that could arise from the Prarie Plant System bill? anyone... anyone?

[trichcycler]

• standardized medicine
• pesticide free(hopefully?) medicine
• full laboratory access
• new tests, results, and health benefits
• clinical trials
• insurance coverage(?)
• a safe place where patients can procure smaller amounts(grams, joints, caps) of medical cannabis, most often not feasible for a grower to deliver(?)
• ingredients labeling
• "moral" acceptance by the 62+ citizens, along with increased exposure, and accessibility for this group

believe me, there are negative results too, to growers, users, legalities, etc. but we of all people should view this from all angles.

[beourbud]

Is there a single positive element that could arise from the Prarie Plant System bill? anyone... anyone?

 

None

 

Has anyone heard from Cav.   I think those Prairy Plant Terrarists got him in one of those Caves and are trying to give the rest of us the Shaft.

 

Sounds like Under the Ditch weed

Edited November 13, 2013 by beourbud

[t-pain]

Is there a single positive element that could arise from the Prarie Plant System bill? anyone... anyone?

 

yes! all cannabis grown under 0660 will be irridated and FDA approved!

 

i know i cant get enough irridated foods! never been tested? who cares! irridation was approved by the FDA.

 

we all know the FDA never approved a bad practice or medicine!

nor has the FDA unapproved previously approved drugs.

nor have the pharmacuitical and farming companies lied to the fda and hid their own studies and reports in order to be approved.

nor has the FDA just recently relaxed the amount of FECES that can be in your food and still be deemed safe to eat.

 

the FDA has become corrupt. the corruption goes deep, very very deep. it needs to be fixed or we will die from eating ecoli and salmonella over and over again.

 

FDA approved poopburgers. yum.

 

yes, we still need the fda. its not a perfect organization, but the alternate can be found right now in china.

can you imagine living in china where people put melamine in the milk to bump up the protein test? or put poison filler in the dog food? thats what happens when there isnt an fda.

Edited November 12, 2013 by t-pain

[Guanotea1]

 

• standardized medicine
• pesticide free(hopefully?) medicine
• full laboratory access
• new tests, results, and health benefits
• clinical trials
• insurance coverage(?)
• a safe place where patients can procure smaller amounts(grams, joints, caps) of medical cannabis, most often not feasible for a grower to deliver(?)
• ingredients labeling
• "moral" acceptance by the 62+ citizens, along with increased exposure, and accessibility for this group

believe me, there are negative results too, to growers, users, legalities, etc. but we of all people should view this from all angles.

 

Thank you GM, that is what I'm talking about. One door closes another one opens. Us (CG) will probably not be allowed to provide medicine to MJ patients, at least not working out of our basements in residentially zoned property, but it's going to take quite some time to establish a proper medical supply / testing / delivery system suitable for the REAL patients in this program and we aren't going to get cut off from the med market until that happens. I'm hopeful that by the time the med supply is worked out a more inclusive (but unfortunately less inclusive than what we have now) recreational supply regulation is open and working. 

 

T-pain,

Re irradiation: That has already been suggested as a method to remove harmful pathogens from marijuana. It does appear to be a hotly debated issue, a laymen like myself has a lot of trouble determining a conclusion. I think you are also right, the FDA is an imperfect organization, but I fail to see where you are going with that one.

Edited November 12, 2013 by Guanotea1

[trichcycler]

Federal law generally requires that prescription drugs in the U.S. be shown to be both safe and effective prior to marketing. The FDA's evidence-based system of drug approval and the OTC monograph system play essential roles in ensuring that drugs are both safe and effective. For instance, during the drug approval process the applicant must demonstrate that its manufacturing processes can reliably produce drug products of expected identity, strength, quality, and purity. Furthermore, FDA's review of the applicant's labeling insures that health care professionals and patients have the information necessary to understand a drug product's risks and its safe and effective use.

The Agency has serious concerns that drugs marketed without required FDA approval may not meet modern standards for safety, effectiveness, quality, and labeling. Physicians and other healthcare practitioners, along with consumers, cannot assume that all marketed drugs have been found by the FDA to be safe and effective. For a variety of historical reasons, some drugs, mostly older products, continue to be marketed illegally in the U.S. without required FDA approval. The manufacturers of unapproved drug products have not received FDA approval and do not conform to a monograph for making over-the-counter (OTC) drugs. The lack of evidence demonstrating that these unapproved drugs are safe and effective is a significant public health concern.

 

Think you don't use unapproved drugs ? Think again !

acetaminophen

codeine phosphate

amyl nitrate

chloral hydrate tabs

codeine sulfate

digitoxin tabs

digoxin elixir and tabs

ergotamine tatrate tabs

hydrocodone bittartrate tabs

levothyroxine sodium inj

morphine sulfate oral sol

nitro glycerin sl tabs

oxycodone tabs

oxycodone hydrochlo oral

phenobarbital sodium inj

potassium chloride oral

sodium fluoride oral sol

thyroid tabs

all compounded medications