I Want To Become A Full-Time Caregiver

[trichcycler]

"gross income means all income from whatever source derived"

26 U.S. Code § 61 - Gross income defined

[trichcycler]

Curious why you would say this? 1040 schedule F, profit/loss from farming, takes care of the needs of an agricultural producer.

you would first need to qualify for USDA subsidies I think, as a taxable farming operation. but I am seeing ways now that ill gotten income tax may be reported, and is by people expecting to be caught in illegal activity, so they don't have to get the tax evasion charges also.

no worries for cg's, there is not enough money changing hands to add up to anything more than a lemon aid stand revenue example

[shishka]

Direct costs associated with production of agricultural goods are deductible, even under 280e. I claimed all equipment, nutes, electric, rent ect...

[shishka]

This is what I have been told by one of Michigans leading canna business CPA's.

[Habenero]

You're dealing with the feds. Calling it an agricultural product on your end isn't going to make them change their minds. To them it's a controlled substance. Tricky wordplay ain't gonna cut it bro. I wouldn't dare deduct for that. Imagine getting audited and the aftermath of that. But hey if you're ballsy go for it. Would be kinda like opening a shop and selling frame mounted handguns without an FFL and saying you're selling pretty artwork not firearms. Mounting it in a frame doesn't change that it's a firearm.

 

But hey, someone's gotta be the test case I guess. If you jump off the cliff and live then maybe I'll follow. But u gotta live, I'm not gonna go #lemming.

[GrowGoddess]

I may be mistaken, but I believe the only way you can claim anything as being agricultural is if you own agricultural land and the product is produced on that land. There may be a minimum of acreage too.

 

Agricultural land is my favorite due to the wide variety of rights you possess. For example: in most cases nobody can complain about noise, smoke, or dust coming from your land 24/7 365 days per year. I have seen many farmers running their equipment at night spreading fertilizers and pesticides.

[saiamne]

I shouldn't be terse in my replies. I want holes poked in my ideas so that I can be certain I understand everything going on there.

 

I appreciate everyone's participation in the discussion.

[Habenero]

Industrial land is MY fav because you can dump all kinds of chemicals on the ground and as long as they can't get into the navigable waterway you're all set.  :lol:

 

Guess I don't know why your fav zoning is somewhere where you are free to give off as much noise and other pollution as you can....

[GrowGoddess]

Industrial land is MY fav because you can dump all kinds of chemicals on the ground and as long as they can't get into the navigable waterway you're all set.  :lol:

 

Guess I don't know why your fav zoning is somewhere where you are free to give off as much noise and other pollution as you can....

 

I have owned different parcels of land. I have a personal preference from experience. Just because it is zoned agricultural does not mean it is farm land or polluted. A lot of land zoned agricultural has never been farmed with modern methods or equipment.

 

The point is you have a lot more freedom and rights. For example: Say you purchase a 25 acre parcel and it is all wooded. Later you realize it is within city limits and it is zoned residential. Say you bought this land with the intention to use it for recreation, camping, snowmobiling, etc. Say it cost $60,000. Something like this happened to me. I find out I am not even allowed to have an open campfire. I am restricted on noise, can't even drive an ATV up and down the two-track at night. Then to top it off, the city demands that you get a permit to be able to pitch a tent! So this is looked into further and come to find out, the township/city adopted their zoning ordinance from a big city, like Pontiac, from a trailer park. If it were zoned agricultural, I do not believe any of that would be enforceable.

 

I like to know that I can start breeding dogs if I want without concern of noise or smell complaints. If there are any complaints, the authorities would be in violation of the agricultural rights.

 

Another example: Say your dog is outside barking. The neighbor is getting upset, you had no idea. They call the authorities who comes to give you a warning or ticket. That is something I don't need. On agricultural zoned land, someone telling you your dog is barking too much is the same as telling a farmer his cows are too noisy or smelly. Raising chickens and growing your own food. Call me a tom girl, country girl, or hillbilly, I like my freedoms and options.

 

Avoiding potential problems in the first place would be wise.

 

Again, agricultural zoning does not necessarily mean farm land.

[jointedone]

Now this woman knows what she is talking about. City people please stay in the city. We live out here because we do not mind dirt roads,or open space,or hearing cows moo and seeing livestock and buying fresh eggs. We LIKE the smell of dirt,and horse manure and fresh hay cut.  Now we are being crowded as the people leave the city in droves. 30 years ago this was country. But it isn't staying that way. You go, GG. Be proud of what and who you are. Keep listening to the hoot owls at night and keep it in your memory,and say goodbye to our town. I can see the sun setting fast,and just like they say,nothing good ever lasts. Your heart dies when you have to leave it behind.

[pic book]

I have owned different parcels of land. I have a personal preference from experience. Just because it is zoned agricultural does not mean it is farm land or polluted. A lot of land zoned agricultural has never been farmed with modern methods or equipment.

 

The point is you have a lot more freedom and rights. For example: Say you purchase a 25 acre parcel and it is all wooded. Later you realize it is within city limits and it is zoned residential. Say you bought this land with the intention to use it for recreation, camping, snowmobiling, etc. Say it cost $60,000. Something like this happened to me. I find out I am not even allowed to have an open campfire. I am restricted on noise, can't even drive an ATV up and down the two-track at night. Then to top it off, the city demands that you get a permit to be able to pitch a tent! So this is looked into further and come to find out, the township/city adopted their zoning ordinance from a big city, like Pontiac, from a trailer park. If it were zoned agricultural, I do not believe any of that would be enforceable.

 

I like to know that I can start breeding dogs if I want without concern of noise or smell complaints. If there are any complaints, the authorities would be in violation of the agricultural rights.

 

Another example: Say your dog is outside barking. The neighbor is getting upset, you had no idea. They call the authorities who comes to give you a warning or ticket. That is something I don't need. On agricultural zoned land, someone telling you your dog is barking too much is the same as telling a farmer his cows are too noisy or smelly. Raising chickens and growing your own food. Call me a tom girl, country girl, or hillbilly, I like my freedoms and options.

 

Avoiding potential problems in the first place would be wise.

 

Again, agricultural zoning does not necessarily mean farm land.

ok tom girl grow goddess, country girl  .

[jointedone]

Hey DEETROIT has plenty of industrial contaminated land. Packard building,the train station. Plenty of room where they find piles of dead pitbulls after the snow melts,no streetlights,the most miserable city in the country. Keep it. It's almost empty now anyways. Unless you like casinos. You can always tell the people who have never seen the Northern lights,or never seen a hawk on the wing.They don't and never will get it.

[Wild Bill]

You haven't been downtown for awhile.

 

Edited September 27, 2014 by Wild Bill

[jointedone]

darn right. We can't afford to go to football games and baseball games and hockey games.  So you have two blocks of "city" like the lovely pic you show. And it's still the most miserable city in the USA. No cops,only in the areas out of towners go,like greektown. Get thru the bums asking you for money,wow what fun. It's a sick pit of depression. I do remember as a kid when it wasn't. I was born there. But that's all gone now.Keep it. My husband drives a truck and he has told me plenty about miles of black emptiness,no houses,no lights,just old streets filled with garbage. The poor people that live there are stuck,while the Illitches decide the Wings need a new arena. Yeah,that's gonna help. Make a mistake and go down the wrong street and you're dead.You know it's true.

[Wild Bill]

I too remember when it was like that, especially in the 70's, but it's rapidly being revitalized. There's a vibrant nightlife and it's not any more dangerous than the suburbs.

 

As always you can find trouble if you look for it but generally speaking if you stay away from the drugs and prostitutes you'll be OK. The neighborhoods aren't always safe, but why would you go into those areas anyway unless you have friends there?

 

When the new 45 block entertainment district is completed the only city in the United States that will have anything comparable is New York.

[jointedone]

BTW,the person that started this post to get info must be very impressed by the friendliness of Michigan growers. He left the conversation after the insults. Nice way to reach out. And the "drugs and prostitutes" statement,wow. Thanks.

[pic book]

i live detroit, have rented my personal rez/grow site for 4 years.  

last summer i could not find a decent house anywhere else to buy for a grow for $10k cash.  sure, i wanted ypsi, but needed another $40k cash to get there. but in detroit, my $10k bot a 2 story, 1800 sf brick house with large back yard and 35 x 22 open basement.  yeah i had to borrow another $2k and hire off-the-street repair guys to make it liveable--doors and plumbing and wiring.  so i have stuck in $12k to set up my dream grow site, and it cost me 80 days, all-day, looking for it, and 7000 fone calls and 20 realtors. 

yes, in detroit pitch black streets are so common.  However, listen to the police scanner and you soon discover that the iconic TROUBLE ROUTE of detroit  is confined to Seven Mile and seven mile all along seven mile--nightly on scanner the robberies, the shootings, the knifings--10 per night, consistently occur along seven mile.

Listen to the real detroit at night on police scanner..  Anybody can.  

NOT ALL DETROIT IS 7 MILE.

but all of 7 mile is broken, violent, dangerous, esp at night, and 7 mile is the location of violence, robbery, gunshots, every night.

that crap is sporadic everywhere else, but (police scanner shows) is the very warp and woof of 7 mile, every night.

[Wild Bill]

BTW,the person that started this post to get info must be very impressed by the friendliness of Michigan growers. He left the conversation after the insults. Nice way to reach out. And the "drugs and prostitutes" statement,wow. Thanks.

 

I don't recall any insults, he just didn't care to hear the truth. The scenario he was describing might work elsewhere but when it has been tried in Michigan it has led to arrests and jail.

 

I'm also fairly certain that drugs and prostitution exist in every major city in the world (any many small ones) would it be better to pretend that they didn't exist here?

[Wild Bill]

 

However, listen to the police scanner and you soon discover that the iconic TROUBLE ROUTE of detroit  is confined to Seven Mile and seven mile all along seven mile--nightly on scanner the robberies, the shootings, the knifings--10 per night, consistently occur along seven mile.

Listen to the real detroit at night on police scanner..  Anybody can.  

NOT ALL DETROIT IS 7 MILE.

but all of 7 mile is broken, violent, dangerous, esp at night, and 7 mile is the location of violence, robbery, gunshots, every night.

that crap is sporadic everywhere else, but (police scanner shows) is the very warp and woof of 7 mile, every night.

 

You can say that again! I lived at 7 & John R for 25 years. It was bad then and worse now. I remember when the Chaldeans were fighting a drug war and tossing severed heads out on 7 Mile.

 

But, like I said if you don't patronize drug houses or prostitutes you'll generally be alright. What reason would most people have to go anywhere on 7 Mile anyway?

 

Stick to the populated areas and don't look for trouble. There is a family living next door to me with two young children who ride their bikes down the Dequindre Cut to the riverfront almost every weekend and have a great time (for free). If you haven't been to Detroit lately you're missing out.

 

[saiamne]

I haven't abandoned my post here, nor am I put out by any of the discussion going on.

 

Been busy with life around here and haven't had time to put any coherent thought into posting; watching HB -4271, beginning to look at property available around the state.

 

If, as a caregiver in Michigan, I'm protected in my right to sell overage to a dispensary then I don't really see anything preventing me from making a mild income by providing a service I believe so strongly in.

 

I appreciate that Michigan law has been designed to keep any large scale operation or commercialization out of the picture. I want to be involved with a caring, providing community, not a competitive commercial environment like Colorado or Washington. I hope I'm right in assuming that there's more cooperation, sharing of knowledge, and assistance within a CG community focused on providing care in Michigan.

 

As far as location goes are there strong reasons to choose one region over another? What municipalities or counties either oppose or embrace this medical solution?

 

I'm looking for agricultural property in the 40~100+ acre range. I want the property to be within in maybe 30-45 min of a reasonable size town able to provide basic services - hospital, commerce, maybe a good college. I want as much forest and water on the land as possible, not so much a tilled 80 acre field; privacy, peace and quiet. I have family in the Grand Rapids and Grand Haven areas so maybe closer to that part of the state. I really like the area around Luddington.
 

[+Malamute]

I think you prolly answered your own questions. :-)

[jointedone]

Good. Oh and you don't get excited if the Lions win,(just be a Green Bay fan)and get to show people where you live by using your hand. What could be better?  NICE GOIN TIGERS,YA BUMS! BALTIMORE?? Oh the humanity................................

[Habenero]

Tigers are bums? Gimme a break. Made it to the playoffs for the 3rd years in a row. Orioles haven't made it since 97 or something so good on them. And that bum Cabrera with a .320 batting average. And he turned down his bonus of over $100,000 for getting to the playoffs.  The man has integrity.  Had a .280 average in the playoffs but so what? Tigers did well so good on them too.

[Guanotea1]

saiamne + Highlander

I'm really impressed with how well the two of you write and think. I'm a math guy so lets do some math together.

 

If it would be so easy to make gobs of money in growing in CO then commercial prospects should just head there. I seriously doubt it, just because surely the competition and licensing is stiff, but I'd love to be proven wrong. Realistically in Mi you are talking about 6 caregivers, lets say each patient consumes 2 oz a month (on the high side), sales price of $225 per, that's 162K in REVENUE a year for the WHOLE operation. $30 /oz costs are reasonable (this is ~my cost which is on the very low end of the scale). I assume you would dictate the grow system, strains, etc for maximum production. So thats 21K in cost OTD with a net of  ~140K to be spread about 6 people somehow. Lets say each caregiver is satisfied with just 15K /yr for his work, which is not a bad chunk of change particularly if things like irrigation is automated and centralized, meaning they would work <4 hours a week on the garden like me. That leaves you with 50K in income. That does not include the one-time cost of equipment and the facility.

 

The trouble is that all of these numbers are best case scenario, 6 caregivers always, 30 patients always (although I think that's more than possible to maintain), always averaging out to 2 oz a month in sales to each patient which is on the high side in my experience (must have $450 / mo to spend on MMJ). You are also accepting a lot of risk so you would want a lawyer on retainer and there are costs associated with that. 

 

Your plan is difficult, but not impossible. I think you should expand your plans to include 10 caregivers if the HB allowing overage sales doesn't pass but you have way too many caregivers if it does pass. In fact the proper square footage and planning it is entirely feasible to produce >4 lbs per month per caregiver and if you had a legal means of disposing of so much marijuana you would be very comfortably upper-middle class. And we aren't even talking about a lot of space, my entire grow is capable of near these numbers but sadly mostly remains at idle do to our current state of law. With less than 500 ft^2 it is possible to consistently produce 3.5 lbs/mo with just 48 plants (allowing 1 or 2 patients to drop at any one time and remain in legal plant count) in a very simple drip to waste automated hydroponic system. When you think about that your operations revenue could consistently be 3.5(lb/mo)*16(oz/lb)*140($/oz)*6(caregivers)*12(mo/yr)=~$560K - coming from a TOTAL of 24 hours of work in a week plus harvesting (lots and lost of harvesting), which is pretty stinking nuts.

 

In this scenario (HB passes) I think it's pretty difficult to make a half a million dollars each year without bringing big trouble so I'd recommend that you only house 1 additional caregiver in your facility, for a total of 96 plants and thus a much more scaled back revenue of ~$190K, net sans facility/equipment you'd be looking at something like ~150K where cost = (3.5 lb/mo)*(16 oz/lb) * (30 $/oz) *2 * 12 =  ~40K. Yes that does include the costs of electricity and the cost of cheap organic or DIY mixed "chemical" nutrients. The total cost of the build wouldn't be too bad probably like 40K if you made UBER nice. For a little less money you could easily scale your operation down to just 80 plants which as I've been told has some additional legal benefits.

 

I am not a lawyer and I have no idea if this is a good plan from a legal perspective. I do know that having 6+ caregivers in a single facility means that there will be hundreds if not thousands of people that know you are growing there which is a serious security and LEO risk. Plus with so many transactions going on there are so many ways for the deals to go sideways it would be really hard to control. That being said crime bosses and CEOs exert similar levels of control all the time on their organizations so I won't say it's impossible.

[Guanotea1]

I think if you are serious about this you should consult legal counsel now about your 6 caregiver plan, or my 10 caregiver plan, or my 2 caregiver plan, or some alternate plan, and decide what you will do or if it's best to just leave this whole idea alone right now. There is no question that the demand is there, and the market price is still highly favorable, and you certainly seem capable of actually pulling something like this off. The only remaining questions are legal in nature and you really should contact a legal professional specializing in Michigan medical MJ and not rely on internet forum members or your own research to make a good decision. By reading what you have to say I can tell you are an intelligent and compassionate person and I for one would welcome you to the Mitten should you come!