Jump to content

What Is The Average Number Of Plants Needed To Create A New Strain?


pic book
 Share

Recommended Posts

Let me display my ignorance up front, ok?  I am of the impression that, generally, many many plants need to be grown out and breeding done efficiently, the optimum number of plants exceeds mi limits.  But I may be very very ignorant and i am willing to learn from anyone who has a beter idea on this.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2, a male and a female or 2 females with one forced to throw male flowers.

  The better ones are usually worked on from a larger pool and bred 3 generations for inbred lines.  I guess it all depends on what you consider a strain.  IBL's are inbred lines that are all from the same original pairing , to produce uniform characteristics. F1 Hybrid strains are one male(or female forced to hermie) bred to another representation of another line/strain/hybrid, the next generation from the seeds of that pairing would be f2 and by f3 you should be able to start getting more uniform seedlings, theoretically.

Then there are backcrosses to the original female to get offspring more like a single clone when there are no related males to cross to it.  You cross something similar to your clone to it and crack teh seeds you get from it and use a male with the characteristics you're looking for to pollinate the original clone.  The next time you do that it's a bx2 and the third time a bx(backcross)3.

 

There are a lot of different ways to breed and it takes different numbers to accomplish different things.

 

And you never know what will make a winner.  Lots of clone only cuts are from bagseed or from random seeds from a couple male flowers in the garden.  I liked to just throw everything to everything and see how they came out.  Now I'm doing the same just to capture genetics.  I'm still trying out all I can from every breeder I can to see what I like and what I think will mix well.  Sooner or later I'll incorporate testing to try and breed hi CBG plants and hi CBD plants.  First will be selfing the perkins cannatonic and seeing if the fem seeds stay true to hi CBD.

Edited by Norby
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jorge Cervantes turned his breeding section in Marijuana Horticulture the Indoor/Outdoor Medical Grower's Bible, over to Chimera, who doesn't really say a specific number.  He just shows pics of 32 trays of 72 plants with the caption:  Growing out a large number of seedlings is the best way to find a good mother plant.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

you want enough plants so you can breed the traits you want.

 

try viewing vaderog's videos about breeding. he talks about the basics a few times, like finding F1 and F2 females, etc. way over my head but lots to learn.

 

 

you could just start reading many plant breeding books for a year and then maybe you will be able to start breeding :P maybe. good luck

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i think somewhere in one of his videos he says you need 16 plants to do pheno hunting.

That's to find a cut, the best a cross has to offer according to your tastes and growth characterisitics.  That doesn't mean that plant will be the best plant to breed as it may not pass on the good traits it has because they are recessive or subdominant.

You can pair ANY 2 plants(mf) and take offspring and pick for what you want and create a "strain"(IBL).  Just because you have a good looking male and female doesn't mean they will create the best offspring.  Taking 2 inbred lines and pairing a male and female will give you F1's(F1 cross) which should display a uniform type offspring throughout all the seeds they produce.  Once you start breeding those uniform f1's together they will start throwing all sorts of variation from which you can choose those with the traits you wish your strain to posess and cross those offspring together till you have uniformity from all the seeds you get from them.  Personally when I think of a strain I think of uniformity in the seeds you get.  Most breeders on attitude are f1 hybrids.  Lot's of fem seed crosses are also f1 hybrids such as Bubba OG.  Either the bubba or the OG was made to produce male flowers and pollinate the other.

Edited by Norby
Link to comment
Share on other sites

more THC ?

The you should cross 2-4 males to 2-4 females and find out which female has the highest THC.  Take the seeds from teh 4 males crossed to the highest THC female and grow out some of each.  Find which male gave the most hi THC offspring and pick from those seeds and continue. Always test and always pick the seeds from the highest THC cross.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lots and Lots of time

Not necessarily, I grew out 3 generations of Russian Rocket Fuel in one season in NY.  The first went down in April inside and finished june 1st outside.  The next seeds went down by the 7th and were finished the middle Aug and the third went down Aug and finished Oct.  I picked the best female and it got better and better and by the next season I had a strain that was much better for my conditions and yielded better.  I was going to split the 3 into better in early cold better in heat and better in cold finish. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

True or False.  starting from scratch, 80% of the time you can breed a cup winner by growing out and selecting from 16 plants. 

Err, maybe no.  Are you looking for a prime cut or are you looking at crossing and making a winner.  You can't just randomly choose 16 plants from a certain cross and get a cup winner but you could pick 16 and breed them together and have limitless possibilities.

Edited by Norby
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know about all this breeding mumbo jumbo, I just need to know what happens when you mate two plants of the same strain.

For example, Free Leonard is Butterscotch Hawaiian crossed with G-13. If I mate a male and a female Free Leonard will I get Free Leonard seeds from this pairing. In other words, will the plants I grow from this cross be identical to the parents?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

they will not likely be identical to the parents. It greatly depends on the parentage breeding line and how far the OB took to lock down their particular phenotype, or maybe they chucked tow bens in and out came a bunch more great ones-my experience often.  I keep good track of pheno's and test seeds. when I find one that sticks out I culture it and clone form a clone. who cares how stable the seeds of its offspring will be, I mean in my circle. The majority of "breeders" produce is surprisingly simple chucking.   I've never chucked pollen and ended up with a poopy plant, and wouldn't expect to with great genetics full time in the herd.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, with a win-the-lottery lucky pairing, just two plants?  But for the averaqe strain sold by say, attitude, how many plants had to be grown out to produce a strain?  Or to produce say, tricloud's seeds?

answer;

 

one male to make pollen

one female to accept it

 

the seeds are now a new strain. many many offered commercially are exactly that, a cross of two good strains.

 

Hybridizing, locking down traits, expressions, etc, is a different game than making seeds often.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not if Free Leonard is a first generation cross.  If they used those 2 strains to make an inbred line by crossing the offspring for many generations to "fix the traits" then they should be relatively the same. 

 

When you cross 2 different strains you get generally one or 2 phenos, if you crossed inbred lines with fixed traits.  If you cross x and y to get g13 and you cross a and b to get butterscotch and then cross them together, you crossed 2 f1's to get another f1(first generation cross)  This means you have a lot of the genetics from 4 different lines in free leonard.  When you start crossing those seeds called free leonard you will start to get all sorts of mixes from all 4 of the grandparents. 

Edited by Norby
Link to comment
Share on other sites

U talking to me? :)

 

Yes of course.  My post after yours was answering Amish.  They won't be the same as what you started with if free leonard is a F1 cross. It'd be a "free leonard strain f2 then f3" till the traits are somewhat fixed then it would be free leonard line breed, which usu after 3 generations is a new strain.  I don't know why you would want to label it new from just breeding together f1's since you don't know what you'd get but you could.  I just label them "plushberry f2 till I fix traits and label the qualities and still call it plushberry till it's somewhat regular.  Then I'd name it according to the new fixed smells or tastes.  I think that's what they do with old school , non-monsanto genetically marked, hybrid lines that were trademarked?  I just keep it the same for ease of remembering

 

Technically though, yes, the first hybrid breeding of an f1 is a new strain since the offspring will be very different than the original f1 cross, I think.

 

It's hard with f1 crosses and inbred lines since you'd have to breed for a while to "improve" an inbred line, picking for things like drought resistance to produce a new strain.  If you just buy bubble queen from Ice River Genetics(an inbred line) and call it bazooka joe after 1 breeding it's kinda underhanded.  I think that's where the 3 gens came from.

 

I'm sure there is a hard set of rules with seed co-ops and places like Johnny's seeds and other producers and creators but that's how I understand it.

Edited by Norby
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Clone-only variety – The grower may distribute genetically identical clones of the plant. A clone is the only way to propagate a plant while retaining its exact genetic makeup. Nevertheless, the conditions under which the plant is grown will still greatly affect the final product.
  • Stable seed variety – Creating a genetically stable variety involves selectively choosing male and female cannabis plants and breeding them over the course of multiple generations. The final generation's seeds reliably grow into plants that exhibit the desired characteristics, though some genetic variation will still occur.
  • Unstable seed varieties – Unstable varieties are produced without numerous generations of breeding. Although they can be produced quickly, plants grown from these seeds may have widely varying characteristics. Commercial seed retailers generally do not distribute unstable seed varieties, though some disreputable shops might. Amateur and third-party growers may, whether knowingly or not, produce unstable derivatives from well known varieties and misleadingly call them by their true variety name.
  • Wild varieties or landraces – Some varieties, such as Colombian and Thai, refer to cannabis plants found growing wild in certain regions. Typically, these plants are used as bases for the production of more specialized varieties, such as G-13 or Hash.

 

This is off wikipedia.

I think variety = strain

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i think that 'stable seed variety' is what i considered as breeding when i started the topic, and the modality which chimera operates, growing out thousands of plants in a selection process guided by the punnets square, meaning to get a new strain consistent in its characteristics, as distinct from pollen chucking in which joe schmoe crosses two strains, probably grown side-by-side, and as soon as the seeds are dry, contacts a seed wholesaler who sells the seeds as a new strain ($50 for 5).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share



×
×
  • Create New...