The M.a.c.c. Attack Fund

[MaryJ]

Yeah........

 

You won't like my opinion about this topic one little bit.

 

I'm quite sure.

 

I'll just keep my mouth closed for now.

Irish,

I respect your opinion, I took no offence to it. I just wanted to clear the air as to what this fund is for simple as that. Please feel free to chime in at anytime no harm done.

 

Peace,

Mary J

[+JuztBudz]

I have to agree with Greg's sentiments here. There are many dispensaries who have taken the proper approach to this, in that they have taken the time, effort and cost to keep patient and caregiver records recorded off site in a secure manner. Those who have not done this are putting all of their clients information at risk. The same goes for any Compassion Club that keeps their records on their home computers and not secured properly. It is an obligation that we all have, to protect those records, regardless of the cost incurred. To do otherwise is a violation of trust. Peace...j.b.

 

Right on, Irish!

 

Any dispensary that has records available to police or burglars is prima facie guilty of violating their affirmative obligations under HIPPA to protect the records. Contributing money to sue cops because dispensaries put profits ahead of privacy is unwise, at best.

 

p.s. I also agree that it is the police that have broken the law! Just as PB has stated, they are in violation of the MMMAct in so many ways, the seizing of records is the most aggregious of those violations and must be stopped. However, if those records had been handled properly in the first place this wouldn't have happened. The records of all must be protected by those who gather them, MUST BE PROTECTED! We have an obligation here folks, lets not shirk that responsibility for a few dollars more.

[bobandtorey]

This is all good information and we all have learned what not to do i for one was at the Ferndale one

and they have my records for me am not worry

others should be when i was their and meet the Mayor i was thinking that it was a good place to be i never brought any thing i went for support

 

this plan is better then no plan lets all try to help

[Irishgreen]

Hi, Joe

 

The MMMA has put together a defense fund. It's Michael Komorn and associates of Michael Komorn. Michael has been passionate in his defense of our community. Providing his professional services, pro bono. He has been providing funding for the MMMA and more passion than I have ever seen from one human being. I know this is not a formal fund, but we are a community of the poor. When we ask for money, I want us to be able to manage it. The MMMA has proven itself above all else to be an organization of great integrity. Without asking our patrons for money, we have defended the movement with all the strength and resources that we have.

 

So Is Mr. Komorn and his associates doing Bob and Torey’s case Pro Bono?

 

PS, I know I paid a $20.00 membership fee that lasted through 8/10. (Which $20.00 isn't a million, but I know I'm not the only one that paid a membership fee)

 

 

Anybody can open a bank account. Anyone can incorporate. It is important before embarking on any venture to make sure that the proper governance and oversight is in place. That funds are allocated to achieve maximum returns and that there is a mechanism in place to manage the fund for perpetuity. We have been discussing the formation of a defense fund or some other mechanism that protects patients and caregivers. It is important that anything like this is done in a business like manner. So watch in the coming days for an announcement for a general defense fund.

This is a good idea. Would this fund go towards assisting people that Mr. Komorn and his associates assist? Or would people that need access to this fund be able to go to the attorney of their choice?

 

I would like to speak with Bob&Torey's attorney personally with their permission to help determine what their needs are.

 

Sounds like something that should have been done LONG ago. I have always assumed the MMMA was already assisting these 2.

PB is a good person and I would never question his motives. He has given his life to the movement. He is a soldier that does not know fear and who would die to protect our community. I trust PB and always will.

I have no doubt that PB is a soldier that knows no fear. I have no doubt that he is an EXTREMELY hard working activist. Other than that I cannot say. I don’t know him personally.

 

The Unity Rally should not be trivialized.

 

Bob and Torey’s case should NOT be trivialized.

 

You are out here today criticizing those that are working the hardest, spending money they don't have.

 

Who am I criticizing? I just think the focus should be elsewhere. We have Bob saying his lawyer needs help. But, PB here asking for $ and bragging that people are throwing $100.00 bills at him. I can only imagine how that made Bob feel.

The one thing we must have as a community is a unified message. We are a 100 groups screaming the same thing arguing about what we're saying. It is insane to think that we are going to continue to make progress, if our organizations are attacking each other for believing in the same things. This is an election cycle and we are clearly under attack from big government and big money.

 

I don’t know if our groups will ever see eye to eye. Quite possibly we are splintering off such as the Republicans, Democrats, Green party, Libertarians etc. have. We are all Americans with different beliefs. We here are all Medical Marijuana supporters/choosers, with different beliefs.

 

I have read your posts am I am disappointed that you are completely missing the big picture. If no unifying action is taken on our part, soon there will be only state run dispensaries and caregivers will be a thing of the past.

 

The law will NOT change Joe. It would take a ¾ majority to make changes. The current Caregiver/ Patient system is solid. It is fear mongering like this that makes me shake my head. The only thing that may change are the compassion clubs/dispensaries being either state run, as opposed to privately owned.

 

This endless bickering about every detail must stop and positive steps be taken to solidify our movement and message.

 

I agree, I should be able to have an opinion even if it doesn’t conform to the MMMA’s opinion. I shouldn't be chastised because someone doesn't like being challenged. I still don't understand why we should start a fund to keep patients records safe. Right now Dispensaries are being raided. If I as a patient choose to utilize a dispensary, I know going in that my info MAY get out there. They COULD get raided. OR~~~The dispensary should be making EVERY effort to keep the patient info OFF site on online storage or some other secure means. All paperwork should be shredded as it is immediately entered into the computer etc. HOWEVER, It is MY opinion that an attack fund for the police violating HIPPA is an unfounded attack, as dispensaries are not "legal". Therefore......they didn't violate HIPPA.

 

The clock is ticking and populism is not going to fix this huge abyss we find ourselves staring into.

[Irishgreen]

To be clear, I'm not talking about HIPPA

 

 

 

Ok, Then I am clueless......... LOL

[peanutbutter]

Ok, Then I am clueless......... LOL

 

I'll put this out there for a better picture.

 

Every hint about the contents of a patient or caregiver, that exists within any police department and within any court in this state, may be evidence of crimes committed by police and courts.

 

Crimes that are supposed to result in someone going to jail. For six months .. per count.

 

I wonder how much of this evidence can get shredded in one hour .. or one day ..

 

It is worthless for evidence. The act of introducing it into court is a crime in Michigan. A Michigan crime. Not a federal one.

[Irishgreen]

Ok, I got ya.

 

You are looking at enforcing the protections that are built into the law...........

 

That is not a bad idea.

[bobandtorey]

Hi, Joe

 

The MMMA has put together a defense fund. It's Michael Komorn and associates of Michael Komorn. Michael has been passionate in his defense of our community. Providing his professional services, pro bono. He has been providing funding for the MMMA and more passion than I have ever seen from one human being. I know this is not a formal fund, but we are a community of the poor. When we ask for money, I want us to be able to manage it. The MMMA has proven itself above all else to be an organization of great integrity. Without asking our patrons for money, we have defended the movement with all the strength and resources that we have.

 

So Is Mr. Komorn and his associates doing Bob and Torey’s case Pro Bono?

 

PS, I know I paid a $20.00 membership fee that lasted through 8/10. (Which $20.00 isn't a million, but I know I'm not the only one that paid a membership fee)

 

 

Anybody can open a bank account. Anyone can incorporate. It is important before embarking on any venture to make sure that the proper governance and oversight is in place. That funds are allocated to achieve maximum returns and that there is a mechanism in place to manage the fund for perpetuity. We have been discussing the formation of a defense fund or some other mechanism that protects patients and caregivers. It is important that anything like this is done in a business like manner. So watch in the coming days for an announcement for a general defense fund.

This is a good idea. Would this fund go towards assisting people that Mr. Komorn and his associates assist? Or would people that need access to this fund be able to go to the attorney of their choice?

 

I would like to speak with Bob&Torey's attorney personally with their permission to help determine what their needs are.

 

Sounds like something that should have been done LONG ago. I have always assumed the MMMA was already assisting these 2.

PB is a good person and I would never question his motives. He has given his life to the movement. He is a soldier that does not know fear and who would die to protect our community. I trust PB and always will.

I have no doubt that PB is a soldier that knows no fear. I have no doubt that he is an EXTREMELY hard working activist. Other than that I cannot say. I don’t know him personally.

 

The Unity Rally should not be trivialized.

 

Bob and Torey’s case should NOT be trivialized.

 

You are out here today criticizing those that are working the hardest, spending money they don't have.

 

Who am I criticizing? I just think the focus should be elsewhere. We have Bob saying his lawyer needs help. But, PB here asking for $ and bragging that people are throwing $100.00 bills at him. I can only imagine how that made Bob feel.

The one thing we must have as a community is a unified message. We are a 100 groups screaming the same thing arguing about what we're saying. It is insane to think that we are going to continue to make progress, if our organizations are attacking each other for believing in the same things. This is an election cycle and we are clearly under attack from big government and big money.

 

I don’t know if our groups will ever see eye to eye. Quite possibly we are splintering off such as the Republicans, Democrats, Green party, Libertarians etc. have. We are all Americans with different beliefs. We here are all Medical Marijuana supporters/choosers, with different beliefs.

 

I have read your posts am I am disappointed that you are completely missing the big picture. If no unifying action is taken on our part, soon there will be only state run dispensaries and caregivers will be a thing of the past.

 

The law will NOT change Joe. It would take a ¾ majority to make changes. The current Caregiver/ Patient system is solid. It is fear mongering like this that makes me shake my head. The only thing that may change are the compassion clubs/dispensaries being either state run, as opposed to privately owned.

 

This endless bickering about every detail must stop and positive steps be taken to solidify our movement and message.

 

I agree, I should be able to have an opinion even if it doesn’t conform to the MMMA’s opinion. I shouldn't be chastised because someone doesn't like being challenged. I still don't understand why we should start a fund to keep patients records safe. Right now Dispensaries are being raided. If I as a patient choose to utilize a dispensary, I know going in that my info MAY get out there. They COULD get raided. OR~~~The dispensary should be making EVERY effort to keep the patient info OFF site on online storage or some other secure means. All paperwork should be shredded as it is immediately entered into the computer etc. HOWEVER, It is MY opinion that an attack fund for the police violating HIPPA is an unfounded attack, as dispensaries are not "legal". Therefore......they didn't violate HIPPA.

 

The clock is ticking and populism is not going to fix this huge abyss we find ourselves staring into.

 

Thanks for a great post i have been saying from the first day that are case is important

 

and now are Lawyer needs are support this case has gone on for to long

[Greg Starks]

Oops, I misrepresented the law, I should know better. Withdrawn as regards criminality of dispensaries, but it is still grossly negligent and not acceptable to allow someone to break in and steal patient records.

 

MaryJ: First, I am sorry for what you are going through as well. Jessica Cooper should be your focus, I would try to find out how much money she is spending on these cases, since L. Brooks Patterson is pleading poverty. I apologize to you personally for having suggested you criminally violated the MMM Act. However, when the privacy of MJ patients is compromised, they are at far higher risk than if they were prescribed Vicodin or Cialis, due to the federal criminality of MJ. As JB said, its a matter of trust.

 

Gersh, I am confused when you say that your tactics are: "Not to sue cops. To get our government to enforce the law the voters directed to be enforced." To me it suggests that this fund should be a PAC. Why? Because you get the government to do things in 2 ways, you sue them or you lobby them. I've read a whole lot about lawsuits here over the past 9 months, but nary a one have I seen outside the realm of criminal defense.

 

If you are doing the latter, you are going to end up dancing on the edge of election law if the fund isn't a PAC. Either way, there needs to be far more specificity about what this fund is, who will control it, and how it will be used in order for in to be credible. Further, that there isn't a place on the site to donate to Bob and Torrey, even after they had to ask for the MMMA for help, is confusing as well. Sending paypal payments directly to a lawyer? Sounds about as wise as leaving patient records around... ;-)

 

Finally, I understand that there will be a serious effort, undertaken by Speaker Dillon and former GOP senator Bouchard, to amend the Act in the lame duck session this December. There are many forces lining up to answer the questions that seem to linger. I can guarantee you that the answers they come up with will be disagreeable to many of you. There are many serious questions to be answered, or at least discussed, on October 2. I look forward to seeing many of you here.

[+mayorherb]

Yep...............

 

 

I personally think the focus should be on them.

 

Let the dispensaries fight their own battles. They make enough money.

 

I think it's a bit of a joke that you are wanting people to pool money together for a defense fund for dispensaries!? Am I understanding that correctly?

 

Bob and Torey need help. They are just 2 regular people. If a defense fund is started, it should be for them, as their supreme court ruling will effect us ALL!

 

I can't believe the MMMA has not set something up for these 2 as much as Bob has been the "face" at almost EVERY rally that has been called. He goes to everything you guys have going on. I guess perhaps it's my personal feelings..........but, I would think while everyone is running around having unity meetings, and harvest fests, and trying to rewrite our law,

 

the FIRST thing we should be doing is making sure these 2 have what they need! Because their end result could change EVERYTHING!

 

Whom we NEED to rally behind is Bob and Torey.

 

Whom we NEED to protect is Bob and Torey.

 

Whom we NEED to support is Bob and Torey.

I agree, well said..Have to fight the fight from front lines, Not way over on side lines..

OR~~~~~~~ Is the focus really NOT on the patients?

[peanutbutter]

Gersh, I am confused when you say that your tactics are: "Not to sue cops. To get our government to enforce the law the voters directed to be enforced." To me it suggests that this fund should be a PAC. Why? Because you get the government to do things in 2 ways, you sue them or you lobby them. I've read a whole lot about lawsuits here over the past 9 months, but nary a one have I seen outside the realm of criminal defense.

 

If you are doing the latter, you are going to end up dancing on the edge of election law if the fund isn't a PAC. Either way, there needs to be far more specificity about what this fund is, who will control it, and how it will be used in order for in to be credible.

 

Great points and input.

 

The list of potential actions may include more than those two. I say may, don't know yet.

 

Finally, I understand that there will be a serious effort, undertaken by Speaker Dillon and former GOP senator Bouchard, to amend the Act in the lame duck session this December. There are many forces lining up to answer the questions that seem to linger. I can guarantee you that the answers they come up with will be disagreeable to many of you. There are many serious questions to be answered, or at least discussed, on October 2. I look forward to seeing many of you here.

 

This serious effort is the attempt by elected officials to ignore the direct orders of the voters of this state.

 

It is very notable that they would wait until after the election to try it.

 

Would you happen to know of a list of the elected officials that intend to attempt this action?

[MaryJ]

I was the one in this thread that suggested we put a fund together for Bob&Torey. If you''d been keeping up, Bob&Torey's case has been in appeal. The decision just came back. I was on the phone begging for money yesterday. I'm all for helping out anybody and everybody, but we're going to do it the right way. That's one of the many problems with our movement is doing things Adhoc.

 

Your comment about fear mongering is less than insightful. Ask the folks in Oakland County how they are feeling right now. How about the numerous patients and caregivers that have been arrested? Talk to the lady from Blackman Township who was raided without a warrant last week and thrown nude into her front yard. She had a card. You are looking at this as if only lawmakers can change the law. Law Enforcement, PA's and Judges are changing the law. Such as in Oakland County, A caregiver can take care of only their patients and a patient can only obtain medicine from his caregiver. Is that not changing the law. What about when LEO abuses patients? Does that not reduce incentives to enter the program? If LEO keeps using terroristic measures to circumvent the law, it will cease to exist in it's current format. Eventually patients will ask for the change, and the law will change or legislation not attached to our law will be passed that guts our law. Ask Bob&Torey if it is fear mongering. I asked 75 people last night if they were scared in Jackson, all said yes. Oh yea, do you think the voters received a fair shake in Detroit? Tim worked his butt off to get the referendum on the ballot and three people got it booted. To me, that's changing the law.

 

So let's not try to unite, is that your point? Your getting silly on me now. It is imperative that we quit the petty bickering like this and move on. You don't agree with me, so your point is that we shouldn't work together on areas of common agreement. You've lost me on that one. It's like saying the US shouldn't even be a country because it has different demographics. Democrats over here, republicans over there. What about the independents? We are under attack. The leadership from all the groups agree on that. I know I've talked to them. They think we should work together.

 

Bob&Torey have a lawyer. It is the one they choose. They have never asked us for help, but Michael has had them on his show, letting the world know about their case on multiple occasions. I live off of a disability check, the same as many folks in our community. I don't badger our folks for money. Michael would do anything for Bob&Torey. I know he's given tons of his time pro bono to clients from this movement as well as contributed tens of thousands of dollars to this movement. He loves our movement to the fullest extent. I am often amazed at his generosity. His motives can't be called into question, because he has never ever asked me for anything. I am proud to call him my friend and I am extremely grateful this movement has him.

 

The new fund is to mount an attack against the government entities that illegally seized records. Your argument is that because I forgot to lock my door, it wasn't the thieves fault that he robbed me. I think we should hold law enforcement accountable for breaking the law. I also think that we should fix any problems that could result in records being compromised. One does not exclude the other. This is not a one dimensional world. Every problem has many solutions and many causes.

 

I responded to you because you do use the MMMA's facilities and yet all you do is criticize the organization and all the volunteers that are trying to give you your $20 worth. We all work for free. You know how hard it is to work 16-18 hours a day for free and get beat up for your efforts. I am a patient. I have multiple terminal illnesses. I do what I do, because I love people and I'm doing my best to take care of sick people. Negativity just sucks the life right out of sick people.

 

I am not chastising you. I'm just responding. I love the MMMA. For now it is my job to defend it and all those that work so hard to make it work for our community. Thanks, Joe

Joe,

I want to thank you and everyone else that donates their time,effort, and is involved in this movement.

THANK YOU JOE THANK YOU EVERYONE!!!

Joe I totally agree with you. It is imperative that we quit the petty bickering like this and move on. You don't agree with me, so your point is that we shouldn't work together on areas of common agreement.

well said Joe

[Irishgreen]

Joe, I NEVER said that patients aren't being put through hell right now.

 

I PERSONALLY knew the risk I was taking being one of the first to sign up and legally register with the State as an MM patient. I PERSONALLY, knew I could run the risk of my house being broken into. I PERSONALLY, knew I could have friends that may run their mouths. I too, was a victim. I was broken into. 2 months of my medicine was STOLEN from me. I felt violated, and raped. They went through my underware drawers, my makeup, my jewelry. Someone's dirty paws were ALL over my things. THANK GOD I wasn't home at the time. BUT, The point is I KNOW we are taking a risk!

 

It doesn't' make it right for people to be terrorized by the police. That is NOT what I am insinuating. However, I think we should be moving with caution. Perhaps NOT patronizing these places until some sort of ruling is made. Those that don't and go full speed ahead and do whatever that want, then get arrested or what have you, and then come here and complain that they were arrested! AFTER MANY OF US HAVE TOLD THEM NOT TO DO..........(whatever)

 

I, Never insinuated that I didn't get my $20.00 worth. (quite a joke actually)

 

I, Never said I do not GREATLY respect ALL the hard work that has been done by all the fore runners that have made it possible for ME to be able to CHOOSE Marijuana as my source of pain relief.

 

But, I do think this is getting ridiculous.

 

I try to be the voice of reason. But, That's cool Joe. this is your gig after all.

 

 

Oh, and don't underestimate me...........I am doing my part. It just isn't on THIS site that it may be seen.

 

Just as many others, have done. I carry brochures in my car. I talk to ANYONE I can that complains of an ache on a pain. I go up to strangers and start conversations about MM, if I over hear something they are talking about and I think they may benefit from it. My spouse, and CG has helped cancer patients for FREE. So, I DO know about fighting the good fight.

 

I just may not broadcast it.

[bobandtorey]

Hi Greg, Glad your coming on the 2nd. We are going to be facing many challenges on that we agree. I'm glad your expertise will be brought to the table. Just to give you a heads up, I am working the phones to raise money for Bob&Torey. I am expediting an effort to setup a fund to help them directly, but I want to make sure the funds are properly managed. For the long haul the MMMA is going to set up a defense fund. There's just so many hours in a day. This is why we are decentralizing many of the responsibilities in the organization. It would be super if you could put together some ideas for starting a PAC and the management structure that it would take to manage such a beast It would be nice to have it presented at the meeting. It is a logical next step to organize a united political attack. Thanks, Joe

Thanks MMMA for helping us out i will and i did call are Lawyers i will post when i hear back from them

[Irishgreen]

Joe,

I want to thank you and everyone else that donates their time,effort, and is involved in this movement.

THANK YOU JOE THANK YOU EVERYONE!!!

Joe I totally agree with you. It is imperative that we quit the petty bickering like this and move on. You don't agree with me, so your point is that we shouldn't work together on areas of common agreement.

well said Joe

 

 

 

Yes, that's is EXACTLY what I said, Isn't it.

 

I NEVER said we shouldn't work together on areas of common agreement.

 

I just think there aren't MANY areas in which we agree!

 

I guess the sentiment around here is the same as before.

 

Agree with me or leave.

 

LOL

[Greg Starks]

My ideas for a PAC were presented to Joe, Greg F., Michael K. and Maurice Cheetham on April 10 at the cool GreenTrees facility in Detroit (five stars out of five). It seems to me that I was subsequently offered a lobbyists slot, on the provision that I wait to be paid 'for a few weeks'. That was in June, and no sane lobbyist ever agrees to such terms. But I digress. I am posting what I wrote last April, the context was that Greg F. was going to step aside (which sadly he did - we lost a genius there), and that Joe would run the co-op wholesale operation (which subsequently became untenable). Michael would run the legal side, and I would do the politics, press and organization.

 

So what my proposal was, and remains, is the formation of an organization to perform the following functions:

 

Draft MMMA Proposal – General advocacy and membership development – Starks, 4-10-10

 

1. Advocacy/Lobbying – scope of services could range from:

a. Provide reports as needed regarding impending actions in legislative, executive, and judicial branches of state government

b. Monitor local governmental actions to a lesser extent, creating a clearinghouse of data provided by members

c. Propose alternative response mechanisms for the MMMA’s consideration

d. Implement and coordinate MMMA strategic and tactical responses.

 

2. Publicity and Media Relations:

a. Monitor statewide media – print, broadcast, electronic – for publications relating to the Act and its various impacts.

b. Educate reporters in background, without promoting stories, but ensuring that reporters who cover MMMA-related stories are well-informed.

c. Develop and promote stories for print, broadcast, and internet-based media. Include regular podcast/video programming designed to educate various populations.

d. Develop and produce an ‘earned’ multimedia campaign for print, broadcast and internet-based media (generally news-based).

e. Develop and produce a paid multimedia campaign.

 

3. Education of Vital Populations Regarding Important Features of the Act:

a. Law Enforcement and Judicial Officials – more than anyone, these groups must understand the law and its nuances in order to interpret and enforce it in a manner that protects the interests of patients, caregivers, doctors, and other assistants in the medical use of marijuana. At the same time, they should understand that the protections afforded by the law are limited, and the public interest is served by some degree of oversight to maintain compliance, thereby protecting public safety.

b. Doctors and their staffs – The other major market failure at the moment is the dearth of physicians willing to provide the proper documentation. A casual sample of doctors indicates rapidly that few doctors understand the MMMA at all. Fewer still understand the technical provisions and the protections it affords them, both criminally and professionally.

c. Municipal officials – Beyond LEOs and Judges, other public officials, including city managers, attorneys, councilpersons/commissioners/trustees, zoning officials and board members, building inspectors, and others, all can impact the implementation of the Act, and most importantly, can and are actively creating impediments for patients and caregivers to exercise what are widely seen to be their rights under the Act. It is important that the MMMA, or some other advocacy organization, quickly act in support of patient rights in all municipalities that are actively implementing, or considering proposals to implement restrictive ordinances.

d. The General Public, largely through forums, articles, video. Again, this is a ground fight; officials will not be inclined to act in ways that are opposed by an informed public.

 

4. Membership Development:

a. Direct, face-to-face member recruitment of all facets – patients, caregivers, doctors, vendors, supporters, others.

b. Booths at summer festivals and fairs to directly inform and enroll Michigan citizens in the MMMA, and to promote the MMMA as a responsible, accepted authority on the law and the first source for information relating to the Act and related industries, services and events.

c. As corny as it sounds, the fact is that one of the most effective and least expensive means of attracting public attention and support is by driving a recognizable, ‘brandable’ vehicle around the state, from event to event, and place to place, engaging in a constant media contact process, affirmatively engaging discussion and action to promote the rights and privileges afforded under the Act, and to promote the use of medical marijuana as appropriate, to provide palliative effects from disease and discomfort.

 

 

5. Organizational Development:

a. Use the programs outlined above to actively engage members in focused communications with important decision makers and opinion leaders in their communities, and those who represent these communities elsewhere.

b. Assume general day-to-day operational control of the MMMA via its Executive Directorship. It is important to note that in the event that the ED and Presidency of the MMMA are divided, that the President is selected by the membership more directly than is the ED, and answers to them more directly, and thus has more authority. Generally this authority is assigned to the ED, under the Presidents supervision. The idea being to not let the ED be the tail that wags the dog, while allowing the President to have a real life.

c. To further develop and provide services to associations and compassion clubs, and to promote the development of those in underserved areas.

d. To develop programs which provide services and technical assistance directly to patients, caregivers, doctors, as well as educational programs and conferences.

e. Establish a headquarters and regional offices throughout the state.

f. To develop legal and financial services programs.

g. To establish the MMMA as the ‘go-to’ brand for all things related to the MMM Act.

[peanutbutter]

The security of the sacred patient/caregiver relationship is the number one thing we can all agree on!

 

The very names are illegal to utter.

[Irishgreen]

The security of the sacred patient/caregiver relationship is the number one thing we can all agree on!

 

The very names are illegal to utter.

 

THAT, My dear Peanutbutter...........Is VERY true!!!!

[peanutbutter]

If the government won't answer, then the papers will.

 

If the papers won't, then the full page newspaper ads will.

 

If the papers will not accept the paid advertising, then we'll print up flyers.

 

And pay people to go door to door to pass them out.

 

The government needs us right now. They need our votes. Almost as much as the air they breath..

[Greg Starks]

Thanks, Joe. The org I have in mind is the MMM Society. I totally understand your points, to the degree that I registered michiganmedicalmarijuanasociety.org some months ago. Is it a hat tip to the Michigan Medical Society? Yes indeedy. And the folks around here will understand what it is, too. Anyway, I will change the parts as you ask, with additions and deletions. I just wanted to post precisely what I had sent earlier. I should also have some kind of structural model ready by then, too. But I've been sick as 3 dogs for a while and my mind has me doing stupid things like calling the Ferndale folks HIPPA criminals... Anyway, I'll share as soon as the stuff is shareworthy. Definitely before next Sat, hopefully by Wednesday. Thanks, GS

 

PS: I also believe that there is a role for each of the other organizations too, I do not see a unity group as replacing any, but more like you guys say, a place that sets a baseline of agreed-upon policy goals within commonly practiced (think ugly insider) political tactics. Everyone is welcome to pursue their particular interests, but the entirely fragmented approach is indeed disastrous.

 

PPS: I need to caveat some stuff here: I have, inadvertently, been tangentially involved with what appear to be 2 major frauds in the past decade. My lobbying experience was on behalf of the Saginaw Chippewa Indian Tribe of Michigan in 2001-2, where my federal counterpart was Jack Abrahmoff, who is well-known now. More recently, to my great embarrassment, I worked for Munivest Financial Group, which appears now to have been little more than a Ponzi scheme for at least the past 2 years, stealing tax money from one local government, and 'repaying' others with the newly-acquired funds. If proven true, it represents a series of truly shameful and reprehensible acts, and I am embarrassed to have been associated with them in any way.

 

But this is exactly why I will blather on about transparency, openness, accountability, and member-driven elements of whatever organization springs forth. Member-based enterprises can often punish their elected leaders for fickle reasons, but that is no reason to abandon the principles, which confer legitimacy, and thus power and influence upon the organization. Further, greater member participation and empowerment promotes a sense of investment and trust - critical elements in the long-term viability and short-term impact of any group. More soon!

[+Silverblue]

I've been reading these forums for awhile now and after reading this thread, I must say something, though I don't have much of value to offer, but I came here to learn.

 

The ideas Greg presented from his April 10 meeting are very good, very well thought out. I wish they had been implemented. It seems to me it's taking too long to get ourselves organized, feet are dragging, while the rug is being pulled out from under us. I don't know who to blame, I don't wanna get into the blame game. I hope someone can do something about these issues and at least, prevent any more damage from being done. November is close at hand, a LOT needs to be done that should've already been strongly in place and well established.

 

I wish the fund for Bob & Torey had been set up awhile ago. There should've been a way to do it that'd assure the funds would be handled properly and their identities would be protected. If this can be done, I'll gladly donate to it. Though it may not be much, I want to do something. Their names, and the names of others, have been posted publicly and that doesn't seem right, but still there should've been something in place to help them even if their names were private. If it were me I'd request my name be private. I saw somewhere an objection of having their names listed, was wondering about this for quite awhile so I was glad to see Bob say it in another thread.

 

I know my words don't carry much weight, I don't have much to offer here. It's extremely frustrating being unable to do more. Though I have been here awhile and have learned a lot, I don't see much getting accomplished in time. One person can't do it all, I know many are working hard, doing what they can. The loudest message in all this is, we MUST work together. As frustrated as I am, I can honestly say I learned a lot and pray someone, a committee, whatever, can do something to protect us, so if I become a patient, I won't have to live in fear of being raided, despite being within the law, whether I have a card or am waiting for it to arrive. One thing I know for sure is, if I were a patient and my rights are violated, I doubt anyone here could help me, I'm sorry to say. Even if I were closer to everyone, the lawyers here already have their hands full. I have no family and nowhere to go and I am disabled and have limited funds. There are lawyers near me who are MM friendly. If I can, I'll keep one on retainer, if not, if I can at least know there'll be one available if I need him, that'd be of some comfort. I don't expect any defense fund to be available for me, I don't expect anything, all I know is the risks involved with applying, and how wrong it is to have to be afraid to apply. Because of privacy concerns, I don't feel comfortable seeing people revealing their status in the program. I have felt this way since before those records were stolen by leo, though by the very act of applying, that info may already be insecure and at risk. There's no need to cause further risk. IMHO.

 

If I were sure about this MACC fund, I'd donate to that too.

 

I truly appreciate all the time and effort many have given to help assure patients' and caregivers' rights. Our privacy is at stake, as well as this law we voted for.

 

Of any hope I may have, I sincerely hope this ship isn't sinking- I don't wanna go down with it. I may not have much hope, but I can't give up trying either. I'm sorry I have nothing to offer, but I wish only the best for everyone.

 

Sincerely, Sb

[bobandtorey]

I've been reading these forums for awhile now and after reading this thread, I must say something, though I don't have much of value to offer, but I came here to learn.

 

The ideas Greg presented from his April 10 meeting are very good, very well thought out. I wish they had been implemented. It seems to me it's taking too long to get ourselves organized, feet are dragging, while the rug is being pulled out from under us. I don't know who to blame, I don't wanna get into the blame game. I hope someone can do something about these issues and at least, prevent any more damage from being done. November is close at hand, a LOT needs to be done that could've already been strongly in place and well established.

 

I wish the fund for Bob & Torey had been set up awhile ago. There should've been a way to do it that'd assure the funds would be handled properly and their identities would be protected. If this can be done, I'll gladly donate to it. Though it may not be much, I want to do something. Their names, and the names of others, have been posted publicly and that doesn't seem right, but still there should've been something in place to help them even if their names were private. If it were me I'd request my name be private. I saw somewhere an objection of having their names listed, was wondering about this for quite awhile so I was glad to see Bob say it in another thread.

 

I know my words don't carry much weight, I don't have much to offer here. It's extremely frustrating being unable to do more. Though I have been here awhile and have learned a lot, I don't see much getting accomplished in time. One person can't do it all, I know many are working hard, doing what they can. The loudest message in all this is, we MUST work together. As frustrated as I am, I can honestly say I learned a lot and pray someone, a committee, whatever, can do something to protect us, so if I become a patient, I won't have to live in fear of being raided, despite being within the law, whether I have a card or am waiting for it to arrive. One thing I know for sure is, if I were a patient and my rights are violated, I doubt anyone here could help me, I'm sorry to say. Even if I were closer to everyone, the lawyers here already have their hands full. I have no family and nowhere to go and I am disabled and have limited funds. There are lawyers near me who are MM friendly. If I can, I'll keep one on retainer, if not, if I can at least know there'll be one available if I need him, that'd be of some comfort. I don't expect any defense fund to be available for me, I don't expect anything, all I know is the risks involved with applying, and how wrong it is to have to be afraid to apply. Because of privacy concerns, I don't feel comfortable seeing people revealing their status in the program. I have felt this way since before those records were stolen by Leo, though by the very act of applying, that info may already be insecure and at risk. There's no need to cause further risk. IMHO.

 

If I were sure about this MACC fund, I'd donate to that too.

 

I truly appreciate all the time and effort many have given to help assure patients' and caregivers' rights. Our privacy is at stake, as well as this law we voted for.

 

Of any hope I may have, I sincerely hope this ship isn't sinking- I don't wanna go down with it. I may not have much hope, but I can't give up trying either. I'm sorry I have nothing to offer, but I wish only the best for everyone.

 

Sincerely, Sb

 

Thanks for your kind words

 

don't worry to much we are going to be OK are case is going on because we were the first inn Mich to get Raided

 

some days we feel lucky because of it as others will not have to go though all of this but we were thinking about 2 years and we would be done and FREE now we have to go back to court again it will take 2 years and we will be FREE how else can it be we were legal and the judge said you don't need a card

are Doc even came to court with us what do they want i don't know the PA and Leo's dont like this Law and they are going to fight us until the end what ever it takes

[+Silverblue]

B&T thanks for replying to my post. I am following your story very carefully. Had it been me, I wouldn't be so strong. I pray I'll never know how it feels to be in that position. If I am able to donate something to help you I will gladly do it. When you are free, I hope these matters will be solved for everyone else, too. When we celebrate your victory, we will always remember the long, hard road it took to achieve that victory and freedom. I wish you both a speedy, fair and just outcome in your favor.

 

Sincerely, Sb

[MaryJ]

I've been watching this thread & had to chime in. I have had 5 different local people call me in the last couple of weeks in shock from being raided by OC.

As I have mentioned to many before & will say again. When WTCC operated the private club at everbodys cafe, we made sure to burn(not shred all records) the only thing kept from the info was name & member # in encrypted offsite data storage). Though we did have this wonderful new law on our side in regards to HIPPA. We had many parts of the grapevine keeping us abreast of local & state LEO movements with much warning.

Common sense, courtesy & being aware of our patients privacy is what came 1st.

As such, I reiterate once again, any WTCC member's information has not been compromised in any way.

 

Getting back on this threads track, I agree a defense fund is a great idea for those that have stayed tight within their limits, have not broken or twisted the law as written & are just Victims of the old usual harrasment tactics. Fear is a terrible thing & that is one of the BIG E-cards that are being played by the County PD.

 

Todd J

President

WTCC

www.waterfordcompassion.ning.com

 

TODD,

That's an untrue statement. We were given members names and card numbers on a spreadsheet.

Just saying

 

Peace Mary J

[Highlander]

This is a new crime. This crime can only be committed by an employee of state or local government.

 

 

I'd like to get behind this issue, but I still don't see how you get that the crime can only be committed by a government employee.

 

The law says "A person, including an employee of...."

 

In legalese, "including" means the same as "including but not limited to" or "included without limitation."

 

I have discussed this with three attorneys and read Black's law and multiple appeals and SC decisions, all of which state that "including" is used in an inexhaustive list.

 

---

 

The law prevents a person - any person - from disclosing confidential information.

 

I can understand why, as someone involved in the dispensary movement, that it would be unproductive for the MACC to consider that the dispensary owners/employees can't transfer patient and/or CG information between them.

 

When people have asked me what I think about MACC, I tell them that it appears that the member businesses don't feel that the confidentiality requirements of the MMMAct apply to them.

 

Think about that PB and everyone else who has been concerned about the existence of a patient list. MACC apparently considers itself legally free to provide information regarding a pt or CG status to others. This would mean that one dispensary could sell their customer list to another dispensary - or worse yet - the government.

 

Think about that: Under PB’s interpretation of this, the MMMAct does not prevent a dispensary from freely distributing their customer list.

 

I'm not comfortable with that.

 

Your interpretation of the Act is that private citizens are not subject to the confidentiality requirements in the Act. This is a very dangerous view.

 

I’d like to see PB’s foundation for the conclusion that “Including” means something other than “including but not limited to.” That’s all I’m asking. What is the legal basis to conclude that MACC is not bound by the confidentiality requirements. Right now, I find it pretty ironic that MACC’s mission is to secure confidentiality, yet the organization itself appears to feel as if it is exempt from non-disclosure under the act.