Deep Water Culture

[cawizza13]

My caregiver who lives with me plans on switching from organic soil to a Deep Water Culture Hydro system. While he and i have researched this method we were hoping to get some suggestions from experienced growers using this method.

 

First, any suggestions on a growing medium? Have heard of STG Hail, anyone used this?

Second, any suggestions on a brand of tester for ph, ec, ppm, etc.?

Third, any suggestions on nutrients, Have seen many brands like fox farm and others but any specifically for marijuana?

Lastly, has anyone used LST with clones in DWC? comments?

 

Any comments regarding Deep water culture at all will be appreciated!

[BudJones]

I just read this the other day . . . DWC stands for death without cause!

 

Plenty of growing forums to research out there. search for Krusty buckets.

 

Check out Bubblegrower - he has plenty of threads in the grow room forum on this board. He a bubble god!

 

Good luck.

[Wild Bill]

First, any suggestions on a growing medium?

I always start the clones/seeds in rockwool and then plant the rockwool cube in hydroton. You can use rockwool exclusively but hydroton supports the weight of the plant better. DWC, in my opinion is the easiest and most effective method for growing indoors. You have fewer variables than you do with soil and fewer problems than other hydro methods. I float my net pots in styrofoam sheets and don't have to worry about the water level getting too low if I have to leave the girls unattended for a week or so. Once you get your system up and running you'll never want to grow any other way.

[Cardholder]

I always start the clones/seeds in rockwool and then plant the rockwool cube in hydroton. You can use rockwool exclusively but hydroton supports the weight of the plant better. DWC, in my opinion is the easiest and most effective method for growing indoors. You have fewer variables than you do with soil and fewer problems than other hydro methods. I float my net pots in styrofoam sheets and don't have to worry about the water level getting too low if I have to leave the girls unattended for a week or so. Once you get your system up and running you'll never want to grow any other way.

 

You don't have to use a growing medium. You can use a net pot with a neoprene lid. Then you can keep your root zone dark, and algae free. I started with general hydroponics and the lucas formula. Lucas Formula

[knottwhole]

You don't have to use a growing medium. You can use a net pot with a neoprene lid. Then you can keep your root zone dark, and algae free. I started with general hydroponics and the lucas formula. Lucas Formula

I too have been using the lucas formula for years. Simple and very effective.

[jonh420]

talk to bubble grower.he is the man for sure

[cawizza13]

Thanks for the info on bubblegrower, had a lot of the charts he has but can't beat pictures and explanations! Noticed comments on Lucas Formula, compared to Fox Farm? Any charts for Lucas Formula?

[MichiganMan]

No need for a chart for Lucas formula, check out that link Cardholder put up, explains it pretty clear...

[pic book]

i don't know how far back Lucas (the 3 floras, in the same labeling, same quart and gallon plastic bottles) go back but I do know at least to 1987. Since before then growers were doing tomatoes very well with them.

 

As for 'no pen needed?' Maybe so, however, me? I always twice a day (i have no life) used a ppm and a ph pen (digital even that far back)to verify the quality of drink the plants were getting (the RO was still pumping out 0 ppm and the reservoir was right on, or needed water? nutes?). I made frequent tiny adjustments based on the readings, but I only changed the solution from once a week to every three weeks. Regardless, always got rooted clones every 4 days (Northern Lights) and solid green vibrant plants.

 

I have no way to compare to other nutes, I started with the floras and left well-enough alone. Except...there was the first 3 crops on urine/water alone until the consumers nudged me toward the floras (gross, gd you aren't really?) which from this board i see referred to as lucas, we never referred to them as anything but 'the floras.'

[cawizza13]

As far as grow mediums go i heard of STG Hail and was wondering if any one has tried this?

[Grow Thread]

My caregiver who lives with me plans on switching from organic soil to a Deep Water Culture Hydro system. While he and i have researched this method we were hoping to get some suggestions from experienced growers using this method.

 

First, any suggestions on a growing medium? Have heard of STG Hail, anyone used this?

Second, any suggestions on a brand of tester for ph, ec, ppm, etc.?

Third, any suggestions on nutrients, Have seen many brands like fox farm and others but any specifically for marijuana?

Lastly, has anyone used LST with clones in DWC? comments?

 

Any comments regarding Deep water culture at all will be appreciated!

 

well.... where to begin. suggestions on grow medium? i have never used the STG Hail, but my concern with the man-made foam type stuff is always algae and root rot. i have never used STG Hial because serously, hydroton is the way to go. you can use neoprene inserts as stated above, but the problem becomes plant stability. believe that a plant knows exactly what is going on. its just so much better to have a heavy, reusable, sterile, medium for the roots to grab onto and actually structure themselves to build a foundation for the plant. this makes plants happy. roots are much stronger than foam balls. roots will break thick plastic net pots........ but they cant do anything but grip real tight to hydroton pebbles. its the way to grow IMO. and use a 5" or 6" netpot too. give them some pebbles to grip on to. those tlittle 3" pots are good for starter clones/early veg, but get them into something bigger when needed. keep your plants happy and stable, and they will keep you happy and stable.

 

a tester? i like a 3-in-1 pen. easy to carry around, and you get accuracy with money........ this is hydro, and its worth it, and you can have bigger yields faster with a little work an money...........: http://www.4hydropon...o=oaktonMulti35

 

brand of nutrients? thats 100% up to you. thats like asking what strain to grow. i have seen some talk of the Lucas method in the thread. Lucas was a genious in the indoor cannanis world, who seemed to have unlimited funding/resources....... and unlimited knowledge resulted.

 

you can find some of the ramblings of Lucas here: http://michiganmedic...post__p__183204

 

but as far as what the Lucas method of hydroponics nutrients is...... it is a 2 part system developed by Lucas and his scientific studies. here you go..... pics/charts and all:

 

THE LUCAS METHOD

 

the "Lucas Method" is very simple, cheap, and it obviously works as is evident in the pics in this thread. we only need 2 kinds of nutes. General Hydroponic Flora Micro and General Hydroponic Flora Bloom.

 

 

here is the formula:

 

VEG: 5ml of Micro and 10ml of Bloom per gallon of water. (5-10) IF VEGGING UNDER CFL LIGHTS

VEG: 8ml of Micro and 16ml of Bloom per gallon of water. (8-16) IF VEGGING UNDER HID LAMPS

FLOWER: 8ml Micro and 16ml of bloom per gallon of water. (8-16)

 

 

there are a couple different methods on backfilling whatever the plants drink/what evaporates. i recommend backfilling with full strength nutes/water as needed to maintain the proper water level in the bucket/tote, and then doing two rez changes throughout the cycle. once at the switch to flower, and once after about 3-4 weeks of flower.

 

 

---and here is a "normal" schedule for a plant:

 

seedling/clone/veg 2-4 weeks. 8-16 nutes. 1/2 strength for first few days for seedlings. 5-10 nutes under flourescent lights

when it is time to flip the lights to 12/12 i dump everything and flush. flush=just plain ph'd water for 24-48 hours.

then they get new water after the flush and continue with 8-16 nutes

after a month i try to flush once again

then back to 8-16 nutes

 

 

after 6 weeks of flower, depending on the strain and how much longer it will need to finish, i have to make a decision. i "final flush" for a week minimum so if i am growing a 7-8 week strain i will go into final flush now. if it is a 8-12 week strain i will go back to 8-16 nutes for as long as needed and then into final flush for the last week or so.

 

 

also, another couple freebie tips. when adding the nutes, add the micro to the water first, and then the bloom. NEVER mix the 2 nutes together and then add the combination to water. this WILL promote lock-out.

 

after adding both nutes (separately of course) STIR/SHAKE WELL!! can't say it enough. make sure you have it all mixed up real good. don't rely on your bubbles to do the mixing for you.

 

the flora micro will stain carpet/clothes if not tended to right away

 

assuming you are starting with r.o. water (ph7) the nutes will drop the ph to a perfect 5.5-6.0. i RARELY have to add ph down to maintain proper levels. at any rate, do whatever needs to be done to maintain a 5.5-6.0ph level. and i keep my water temps at 68-70 degrees.

 

also, for 99 cents ANYWHERE in the kitchen department. (target-walmart) this is my best friend. the turkey baster. perfect for measuring nutes out.

 

 

 

here are another couple ways to work with this formula:

 

1. Top off the reservoir daily using a pH corrected water solution as required to maintain full reservoir level. After adding back an amount of water equal to the amount of your reservoir capacity you should change the reservoir and put in fresh solution.

 

2. Top off the reservoir daily using a pH corrected 100% strength nutrient solution as required to maintain full reservoir level. Continue to use this nutrient solution without dumping the tank unless the PPM rises above acceptable levels.

 

Between vegetative and flowering cycles you should dump your nutrients, then flush (possibly with Clearex) to remove salt buildups, then change to the other feeding program. Always shake your GH nutrient bottles before using them!

 

For young plants, just transplanted into the hydro setup, give them 50% strength nutrient mix to prevent overfeeding them while their young. Gradually bring up the mix to full strength as they grow over the next few days or so.

 

The lucas formula is normally intended for use with RO or near 0 PPM water.

 

NOTE: The Lucas formula eliminates the need for Epsom salts to correct (Magnesium) Mg deficiencies in most normal feeding programs recommended by manufacturers. Cannabis needs a lot of Magnesium to thrive.

 

The Flora Micro is providing the Nitrogen and the Magnesium in the proper balance, thus there is no need for the Grow formula and little or no room under the maximum acceptable ppm limit of 1600 @ 0.7 conversion.

 

Calculated EC/TDS levels:

 

EC microsiemen:

0-4-8: 946 µS

0-5-10: 1184 µS

0-8-16: 1894 µS

 

TDS @ 0.5 conversion:

0-4-8 = 473 ppm

0-5-10 = 592 ppm

0-8-16 = 947 ppm

 

TDS @ 0.7 conversion:

0-4-8 = 663 ppm

0-5-10 = 829 ppm

0-8-16 = 1326 ppm

 

Addback Calculator - (For Advanced Users)

 

Say you were running the 0-8-16 formula, at 0.7 conversion with a 22 gallon res. When you first fill it up, your ppm will be around 1330.

 

Now you have been growing for a week, and some of the water has been taken up by the plants, some has evaporated, and now your res is at 947 ppm. You need to get your ppm from 947 to 1330. Here is the equation:

 

((target - current) / target) * 8 ml per gallon * res gallons = Flora Micro (ml) double this figure to get Flora Bloom (ml)

 

Example:

 

((1330 - 947) / 1330) * 8 * 22

(383 / 1330) * 8 * 22

0.3 * 8 * 22 = 53 ml Flora Micro

 

53 ml Flora Micro, double that and you get 106 ml Flora Bloom. So 53 ml Flora Micro and 106 ml Flora Bloom to add back to your 22 gallon res to get you from 947 to 1330.

 

 

One tip - do not pH down this stuff, the hard water micro will drop pH gradually over the next 24 hours, for example I mix up a batch, it is at like 6.2, the next day, its at 5.6-5.8 after running in the system for a while. If I pH downed that to 5.7 before putting it in the system, it ended up as low as 4.8-5.2 by the next day.

 

______________________

 

** major props and many thanks to Lucas. i have spent countless hours reading his charts and study logs. the man is brilliant.

 

 

 

now, one problem with the Lucas method for a lot of people, is that it is not 100% organic. as far as taste, after a 10 day final flush, there is none..... but as far as organics go, i like the General Organics line of nutes. once again, that is going to be growers choice, or patient needs/wants and not a question that can be answered by others.

 

anything works in DWC, including LST, fimming, topping, bending, biting, stretching, supercropping, whatever you want. once again, that all depends on the grower, the lights, the strain, the plant count, and the desired yield and plant height.

 

check out the links in my signature, and my gallery for hours and hours and hours of DWC fun

[PadroPadro]

Is the Lucas Formula really getting it done though? I have a hard time believing using only 2 nutes in a line that requires others to be used in conjuction would work the best? How would all these other companies have the HUGE following they have if this economical alternative was the BEST route for fertilizing the girls...

 

Any light BG?

[Grow Thread]

Is the Lucas Formula really getting it done though? I have a hard time believing using only 2 nutes in a line that requires others to be used in conjuction would work the best? How would all these other companies have the HUGE following they have if this economical alternative was the BEST route for fertilizing the girls...

 

Any light BG?

 

 

well, check my grow journals and 2,000 gallery pics......... 99% of it is lucas grown.

 

everything in the current blueberry patch is lucas grown.... hard to beat that:

http://michiganmedic...post__p__236711

 

and the perpetual budget grow is all lucas too:

 

[Highlander]

I love DWC. I use 2" netpots in 5-galon buckets/lids and neoprene inserts and NO GROW MEDIUM...threw out the hydroton long ago and never looked back.

 

I use Lucas too - it works like a charm - cheap and easy.

 

Biggest risk is root rot. Keep everything clean, water as close to 68degrees F as possible, as much air pumped as possible, and an additive such a hygrozme to keep root rot at bay.

 

The biggest problem you'll have if you do the above is making enough room for your HUGE plants.

[cawizza13]

What about Advanced nutrients? i saw the hobbyist bundle and other bundles, but they are a little pricey. Also i have a height issue and i was wondering if i used a 3 gallon(instead of 5) bucket and snap on net pots(4 or 5 in.), that would leave 1-2 gallons of nutrient solution, would that be enough solution without any drawbacks? Thanks for replies!!!

[knottwhole]

What about Advanced nutrients? i saw the hobbyist bundle and other bundles, but they are a little pricey. Also i have a height issue and i was wondering if i used a 3 gallon(instead of 5) bucket and snap on net pots(4 or 5 in.), that would leave 1-2 gallons of nutrient solution, would that be enough solution without any drawbacks? Thanks for replies!!!

Read up on bubble buckets and the Lucas formula.

You won't grow wrong.

[pic book]

I love DWC. I use 2" netpots in 5-galon buckets/lids and neoprene inserts and NO GROW MEDIUM...threw out the hydroton long ago and never looked back.

 

I use Lucas too - it works like a charm - cheap and easy.

 

Biggest risk is root rot. Keep everything clean, water as close to 68degrees F as possible, as much air pumped as possible, and an additive such a hygrozme to keep root rot at bay.

 

The biggest problem you'll have if you do the above is making enough room for your HUGE plants.

 

 

Neoprene inserts?

[Grow Thread]

Neoprene inserts?

 

http://www.4hydroponics.com/hydroponics/pumps2.asp?ItemNo=neoprene

[solabeirtan]

Neoprene inserts?

 

 

EZ Cloner - Gro Pucks / Inserts

[lil420]

I'm useing the stg right now and like it better then rockwool for 1 its holds more water and has no ph like rockwool but u have to use the 6in stg in a 5in pot or if ur useing 3in pots u want like 4in stg witch they don't make I think a friend is useing 8in stg in the kit he got never seen it but he said he had to go buy more 8in stg cut it in half so it was 12in I really think it works just as good as rockwool or maybe even better and the pucks for ez cloners fit nice in it we got r 6in stg from ohio nobody in michigan has the 6in

[lil420]

And 1330 ppm is way to high there's a magazine And a online site called urban garden magazine.com they do more testing and know more about growing plants then anybody u kinda have to see and read it for urself

[Grow Thread]

And 1330 ppm is way to high there's a magazine And a online site called urban garden magazine.com they do more testing and know more about growing plants then anybody u kinda have to see and read it for urself

 

1330 at what conversion?

 

you are giving off wrong info.

 

1330 @ .07 is the same as 1000 @ .05 which is perfect. ???

 

thats roughly 2000 EC. is that too high?

[Highlander]

I have some STG hail and the 6" (I think) netpot inserts. I hate the stuff. I can see where it would work well for some growers but I didn't care for it. I guess that is when I was doing topfeed. Even STG doesn't recemmond the product for top feed use. It may do better in DWC. I have leftovers - free to a good home.

[str8dank]

lucas works well no doubt. i've ran it many times and not even broke 1200 ppm. i've ran it with house and garden additives (top booster, bud xl and shooting powder) because i had the additives lying around. ran them at the suggested rate and then added base to get ppm's to desired range.

 

with or without them it works. i would say i like to notch up the nutes per week over using the 8/16 ml per gal formula i just use 1 part micro to 2 parts bloom until i get to the ppm's i want. simple and cheap.

[Highlander]

lucas works well no doubt. i've ran it many times and not even broke 1200 ppm. i've ran it with house and garden additives (top booster, bud xl and shooting powder) because i had the additives lying around. ran them at the suggested rate and then added base to get ppm's to desired range.

 

with or without them it works. i would say i like to notch up the nutes per week over using the 8/16 ml per gal formula i just use 1 part micro to 2 parts bloom until i get to the ppm's i want. simple and cheap.

 

I've used Lucas for awhile. I had a Trimeter to monitor pH, temp and ppm. The pH meter quit working. Now I mix a new batch of nutes at 8/16 ML/gal and add RO water to keep the ppms at about 1200ppm between solution change-outs (usually weekly). Results are good.