Cafes And Coffee Shops

[futuretron]

Hello all. I am a restaurant manager, chef, barista, and mmj cardholder. The greater majority of my adult life has in some way involved working toward opening my own restaurant. I was wondering, under Michigan's current laws, how feasible it would be to open an Amsterdam style coffee shop/cafe. Current medibles are lazy and uninspired. I'd like to serve small portion medical meals (instead of just a sucker) in a comfortable coffee shop setting. Some form of dispensary system would also have to be in place for patrons that don't want a meal to purchase smokeables. I imagine the carding system would work similar to a waitress at a bar. Location would preferably be in the metro Detroit area, but Traverse City also sounds tempting. If anyone has any insight it would be much appreciated!

[bobandtorey]

I t think thats a great idea and hope you do open one up i would sure go but just remember Leo will count every thing as usable

i would Waite till the courts figures it out first their are some people inn court right now and if they Win we all Win

[jtgeme]

I t think thats a great idea and hope you do open one up i would sure go but just remember Leo will count every thing as usable

i would Waite till the courts figures it out first their are some people inn court right now and if they Win we all Win

 

Agreed! But I would also offer this:

 

Some counties may be more accepting of your concept than others, try to research which counties are more liberal on the law. For example, Oakland County is definitely out. But remember if the courts do come down with "no dispensaries" then you would have to close up. Since its undecided as of now, I would say its dangerous and risky (time, money, criminal record) right now.

 

Good luck!

[jsburn]

amsterdam style sound just what we need. not stuffing cgs in a room. but an open friendly relaxing enviroment to blow a couple hours.

[+420Atheist]

I think it would be very cool. I think first you have to do a feasibility study. In Amsterdam anyone can visit the coffee shops (unless that changes which it sounds like it is going to.) In MI you can only serve to card holders. You will not be able to serve tourist like Amsterdam does. Not everyone medicates every night nor do they eat out every night. You would have to be in a area where there was a high enough concentration of card holders keep the seats filled. You also have one other problem. In Amsterdam everyone rides bikes or walks. You would have to offer none medicated food for the drivers or risk losing all your clients to LEO. I would think a good place would be close to MSU. Students would be walking back to the dorms and such. The down side is I am guessing most do not have cards so you could not serve them.

 

I wonder if a catering service that serves gourmet high end dishes in the location picked by the client? The down side of this is I don't know if there are a lot of people with cards that can afford that kind of luxury in MI.

[Kingdiamond]

There was a very nice cafe in south central Oakland County that had a lovely regular Sunday evening gathering earlier this year. Between the decor, food, music, atmosphere and meds it had a very Amsterdam feel.

 

 

Grilled cheese and tomato soups Sunday gathering was awesome!

[Kingdiamond]

Yea, it sure was.

 

Who knows, maybe we shared a conversation there.

 

 

Peace.

Maybe i always hung out with Bob and Tory

[lawyercaregiver]

I am not sure that is a bad thing. We are a community that claims to be seeking relief from pain using non traditional medication. I have never been to Wal-Greens or CVS and seen people sitting around popping vicodins and listening to The Wall. If we expect to be taken seriously, than we should be acting seriously.

 

 

Let me just respectfully disagree. People in chronic pain regularly go to places where alcohol is served and often intending to mix a little with their pain meds. While there they might even listen to The Wall!

 

This is not abnormal or sinister behavior. I don't understand the opposition to clubs and social gatherings when their main argument (against marijuana) is that it makes you lazy and a-social.

 

Grilled Cheeze was an inspired gathering. Hope the organizers find another location.

 

Finally, as to the central question: I would only do something like this if you were in the right county and could work with local law enforcement, the prosecutor's office, and the zoning board to offer a firm business plan. I believe there is something close to this idea in Genessee County.

[futuretron]

So this seems to be "we want it" across the board, but simply not realistic at current. This isn't terrible, I suppose it simply gives me time to raise capital. I loved the catering idea! But it seems like catering would be more sustainable when expanding on an existing cafe's market. I don't personally think that the cafe would tarnish our ability to be taken seriously. At least not any more than some of the other silly reasons for which its already being scrutinized. I would hope that people would focus more on how a new business model is opening up in an otherwise bleak economic environment. But the discussion is a good one! There was mention of a similar concept....does anyone else know how that's coming along?

[Big J]

If you need a sous chef or someone to help run it if it Does happen some day let me know I ran an Italian restaurant for years before getting back into warehousing(needed to be home more for the kids) I miss it everyday though. I can make a deep dish Chicago style pizza to die for.

[Croppled1]

There was a very nice cafe in south central Oakland County that had a lovely regular Sunday evening gathering earlier this year. Between the decor, food, music, atmosphere and meds it had a very Amsterdam feel. In light of the summers raids in Oakland county they stopped hosting the event.

 

I am not sure that is a bad thing. We are a community that claims to be seeking relief from pain using non traditional medication. I have never been to Wal-Greens or CVS and seen people sitting around popping vicodins and listening to The Wall. If we expect to be taken seriously, than we should be acting seriously.

 

With all due respect we owe nobody any excuses . When I took my Morphine , oxycontin , and valium they and the effects including dosing requirements went to work , dinner ,Walgreens , out at night , the library , ...everywhere in my life including the car while I drove for a living under drug testing and DOT rules .

 

Cannabis is no different just the times and frequency you must dose . For many it takes ounces a week for vapor and more for food . Most need to dose hourly or more often it's ridiculous enough to be as restricted as we are . Ask yourself why is Cannabis different ? Why do you feel guilty like its special ? There is no where under the law this isnt legal in a private setting or club .

 

It's due to the injustices of Prohibition people think they must give up rights that other alternative items or FDA meds enjoy - free yourself , think like it was never illegal . Because it shouldn't of been , isn't now for medicinal reasons for us qualified patients .Still growing that inexpensive herbal flower . "Unbossed and Unbought "

 

Be sure I have nothing but a big hug for you and this extra thought .When all the pain no longer can be controlled with herbs or medicine , imagery , song and for those who believe prayer may help too .Some of us can't even exercise or move without increasing pain . Were all so different . I hope one day without fear I can meet fellow patients at a Compassion Club and medicate while exchanging treatment notes and escaping from suffering alone . Some of us rarely leave homes or see places other then a Doctors Office and the Grocery store if we're lucky . I bleed for those in institutions with no freedom to choose or grow now . Peace

[+420Atheist]

With all due respect we owe nobody any excuses . When I took my Morphine , oxycontin , and valium they and the effects including dosing requirements went to work , dinner ,Walgreens , out at night , the library , ...everywhere in my life including the car while I drove for a living under drug testing and DOT rules .

 

Cannabis is no different just the times and frequency you must dose . For many it takes ounces a week for vapor and more for food . Most need to dose hourly or more often it's ridiculous enough to be as restricted as we are . Ask yourself why is Cannabis different ? Why do you feel guilty like its special ? There is no where under the law this isnt legal in a private setting or club .

 

It's due to the injustices of Prohibition people think they must give up rights that other alternative items or FDA meds enjoy - free yourself , think like it was never illegal . Because it shouldn't of been , isn't now for medicinal reasons for us qualified patients .Still growing that inexpensive herbal flower . "Unbossed and Unbought "

 

Be sure I have nothing but a big hug for you and this extra thought .When all the pain no longer can be controlled with herbs or medicine , imagery , song and for those who believe prayer may help too .Some of us can't even exercise or move without increasing pain . Were all so different . I hope one day without fear I can meet fellow patients at a Compassion Club and medicate while exchanging treatment notes and escaping from suffering alone . Some of us rarely leave homes or see places other then a Doctors Office and the Grocery store if we're lucky . I bleed for those in institutions with no freedom to choose or grow now . Peace

 

I kind of agree but you also have to admit that WhoME? has a good point. There is a social aspect with marijuana that is different than any other medication and you also have to consider the way that is seen by the general public. It looks recreational and not medicinal.

 

Though I like the idea of a coffee shop or bistro style restaurant where one can go to medicate and yes socialize I think it should be kept discrete like a speakeasy from the prohibition days with a secret room in back that serves alcohol. That actually sounds like a better idea for the OP. That way you would not have to count on just card holders to earn a living from.

[+420Atheist]

I agree with and enjoy reading most of your posts 420Athesist, but the last thing this board needs are posts advocating illegal behavior.

 

Sorry bro and peace form another 420 minded atheist

 

Sorry I was not more clear. I am not advocating illegal behavior. I still expect anyone entering the secret cannabis speakeasy would be a card holder. It would just be a more private and discrete club than most are. That way you keep an image for the front of the restaurant that will bring in the masses but still have a place where cardholders could gather.

[1337Gr33n]

For the record, i DO NOT want cannabis to be treated like every other pharmaceutical. Big Pharma has warped democracy and capitalism to a disturbing degree. Keep their hands off our tree!

[lawyercaregiver]

Well now we certainly would not wish to advocate anything illegal.......

 

On the other hand the Blind Pigs and the common, open violations of prohibition are what ultimately brought it to an end.......

 

Just saying, not advocating, ya know.

[+420Atheist]

Well now we certainly would not wish to advocate anything illegal.......

 

On the other hand the Blind Pigs and the common, open violations of prohibition are what ultimately brought it to an end.......

 

Just saying, not advocating, ya know.

 

Your post got me thinking. What is the difference? Right now we know 33% of the people support legalization with 58% apposing it. What was the percentage of people who wanted to end prohibition in 1933?

 

This site has some interesting data but does not answer my question.

 

Here is Time magazine poll from 1930.

 

Using their figures only 28% supported enforcement of the law. 72% either wanted to modify or abolish the law. If keeping the marijuana laws as they are only had 28% support I bet congress would act just like they did in 1933.

 

We still have not won the hearts and minds.

[+Annnie]

I dont know if i agree with the last statement.. Imho if legalization were put to a vote the peeps would all be coming out of the woodwork to get to the voting booth. I really dont believe there is an accurate accounting of the support because well frankly it hasnt been on the ballot. I really believe that many many ppl dont vote at all because there is nothing of interest to them on the ballot. I think a legalize it on the ballot would really bring the voters to the poll.

[+Annnie]

as for an amsterdam cafe.. I really want to go to one.. i just dont want to be the owner at this particular time.

[congoma]

There is a place kind of like that in TC, makes me feel like I am in Amsterdam when I am there

[+420Atheist]

I dont know if i agree with the last statement.. Imho if legalization were put to a vote the peeps would all be coming out of the woodwork to get to the voting booth. I really dont believe there is an accurate accounting of the support because well frankly it hasnt been on the ballot. I really believe that many many ppl dont vote at all because there is nothing of interest to them on the ballot. I think a legalize it on the ballot would really bring the voters to the poll.

 

I can really only go by the AP poll. Normally they are accurate to +- 3%. However you are correct it is all about who comes out to vote when the time comes.

[+420Atheist]

 

 

- This is not the forum to discus non medical and non legal marijuana use.

 

 

I don't think anyone is suggesting doing anything illegal. Even Lawyercaregiver only compared cannabis to prohibition. He didn't come out and say breaking the law is the right thing to do.

 

I tend to agree on the legalization talk makes it appear we have alternative motives but even the leadership here has mentioned it from time to time.

[+420Atheist]

420Athiest, was it not you that suggested on this very thread that the OP open a blind pig and serve non card holders?

 

I quote;

 

That sure sounds like it is straying quite far from the law that was passed.

 

Yes and read my post that was a reply to your post just a few post under that one. I was not very clear in my first post and said it was not my intent for the private club part to serve people without cards. Look for post #17.

[+420Atheist]

Or perhaps he means a permanent room for cardholders only. Like a smoking lounge at a ritzy restaurant.

 

That is more like it. Just very discrete so you don't chase off the people just coming in for a meal. No doubt I agree with WhoME? that the social aspect of cannabis sets it apart from other medicine and leads the general public to believe it is recreational. But like anything else in the free market if people want it someone will give it to them. I am just advocating doing it as discreetly as possible.

[+420Atheist]

Regardless of what was meant, it still reads a bit off.

 

If it is legal, why the need for a secret room? Why use terms like blind pig? These phrases conjure images of illegality.

 

I know that I am in the minority with my thoughts of clubs and disensaries that do not allow smoking on site. I get that.

 

With that, I am respectfully checking out of this thread. We will just go round and round. Thank you all for the healthy debate.

 

Peace

 

I did not use the term blind pig in any of my post. I don't think a restaurant can stay in business serving just card holders. The idea was to give the OP what he wanted (and what many card holders want) a place for cardholders but still give the restaurant a chance to make enough money stay in business.

 

I don't think you are in the minority. I happen to agree with your position that places that allow smoking will be ammunition for our opposition. I just have come to a realization that people want this kind of socialization. Somehow that want needs to be balanced with presenting a positive image.

[lawyercaregiver]

The popular vote for repeal of Prohibition was 74 percent in favor and 26 percent in opposition.

 

The most recent polling data on medical marijuana is 81% in favor (ABC news Poll).

 

However most recently in California only 46% favored outright legalization. Anyone want to bet that if the medical marijuana patients, dispensary operators, growers etc had voted yes that we would have won?

 

The point is medical marijuana is great. BUT, far from being a backdoor legalization effort as the Conservative claim, MEDICAL MARIJUANA ACTUALLY BECOMES A BARRIER TO OUTRIGHT REFORM BY SPLITTING THE ADVOCATES.

 

Sorry for rant. Back to regularly scheduled thread.