Unity? Lansing On May 29th Medical Cannabis Rally

[Dr. Bob]

I think one of the major plans is to concentrate on the HB's that were passed and sent to the senate for debate and modification. Those are the bills that are going to be acted upon. The senate will try and tweek them a little, and it will go back to the house. That is what most of the effort is going toward.

 

Just out of curiosity, what do you think the focus in the senate is? Taking a bill that ALREADY passed the house, putting it in committee and coming up with some changes the house will approve? Or reinventing the wheel, getting a bill passed in the senate and sending it to the house?

 

As for the rally I've not been impressed with the last 3 as far as organization, message, and impact on the legislature. Too often the crowd was taken over by folks with their own agenda (ie dispensaries) and the former organizers have not shown much inclination to listen to good organizational and pr advice.

 

Dr. Bob

[cristinew]

Who wants to attend a rally that's sponsored by those that would stretch the law ,,,,,that is true, 2 years we had that look where it has got us,

[Joanna]

We are telling all our friends that this is super important and we must show our strength by attending this rally.

Get the word out - people!

[Dr. Bob]

Well you have a super good time. Y'all meeting at the Loft afterwards for medication? Party atmosphere with plenty of profanity and a march through 'our house' after the bullhorns are off? I'll be curious as to see what the talk at the capital is the next day. Maybe you can top the carwash joke.

[+washtenaut]

Celliach, I don't care what board this idea came from. That is unimportant. This is about trying to fight for our rights, not fighting for a website.

 

Unity means joining together for a common cause. The cause is fighting for the rights of cannabis patients, or did that change?

 

So far, the other patient groups have not supported this rally, you are right. A good question would be, why is this not a worthy cause? It is a fight for the rights of cannabis patients. What is wrong with joining this fight, other than you don't like the organizer?

 

Also, you talk about it being a poor idea BECAUSE it will be poorly attended. Why not encourage people to attend and then it might be a successful way to get our story told?

 

If this rally is not a good idea, then just tell me, what is your plan for getting the press to write about our plight??

[AKenewell]

Celliach, I don't care what board this idea came from. That is unimportant. This is about trying to fight for our rights, not fighting for a website.

 

Unity means joining together for a common cause. The cause is fighting for the rights of cannabis patients, or did that change?

 

So far, the other patient groups have not supported this rally, you are right. A good question would be, why is this not a worthy cause? It is a fight for the rights of cannabis patients. What is wrong with joining this fight, other than you don't like the organizer?

 

Also, you talk about it being a poor idea BECAUSE it will be poorly attended. Why not encourage people to attend and then it might be a successful way to get our story told?

 

If this rally is not a good idea, then just tell me, what is your plan for getting the press to write about our plight??

 

What have the past rally's accomplished?

[Restorium2]

It's called 'Bait and Switch'. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Try to fool me more than that and I'll fight back. That's where we are at now.

Edited May 25, 2012 by Restorium2

[cristinew]

What have the past rally's accomplished? not much , a little media spin in our favor and a little not in our favor, as for the senate and house no effect,

[CaveatLector]

(Mods/Admin, I hope this is appropriate content for this board)

 

 

I would like to know what folks think. Should we unite for this rally? If no, please explain your thinking as it sounds to me like it could have some impact.

 

 

 

 

SB 418 - Would prevent someone from suing the state regardless of civil rights violations. It is the kick your teeth in and not worry about it bill.

 

 

SB 0418 of 2011 Senate Bill Health; medical marihuana; permissible causes of action under the medical marihuana law; clarify. Amends sec. 7 of 2008 IL 1 (MCL 333.26427).

 

 

 

Here is the problem with this rally. The OP posted a comment on SB 418. I went and read SB 418 and you can too. The comment is a complete lie.

 

It's fine to point out problems with the bills but why lie about them? If you cannot tell the truth about the bills then you have a hidden agenda--so what is your hidden agenda for the rally?

 

SB 418 does not prevent someone from suing the state. Especially for civil rights violations! SB 418 simply states that the act cannot be construed as creating a cause of action. Obviously whomever wrote the comment doesn't know what creating a cause of action means. If you want to sue the state for civil rights violations your only vehicle is through the Michigan Constitution. If the state violates your civil rights, as provided by the Michigan Constitution, then you can sue the state. Nothing in SB 418 would prevent someone from suing the state for a civil rights violation.

 

I'm not going to parse the rest of the comments and check them against the actual bills because it's a waste of time. Whomever wrote the comments has an agenda and they are lying to you to achieve that agenda. I, for one, am not showing up for a rally when I don't know what the message will be and when I know I am being lied to in order to get me there.

 

In no way am I saying I support the senate bills. What I am saying is don't talk to me like I'm a 5 year old in an effort to influence me. Don't tinkle on me and tell me it's raining.

 

I have a feeling I know who wrote those comments and I am betting it is the same person who has lied to us all along. This just provides yet another opportunity to see that in black and white.

[Celliach]

Again, you're missing the point. This is not a well planned rally, at least if it's going to be like the last two, with a muddied message. The last MMJ rally was mostly people trying to get legalization petitions signed. While I may agree with legalization, it isn't the same as fighting for our rights as patients under the current law. By crossing messages like that, you are making the MMJ community look like a bunch of people that are using the law to further their own ends of "smoking pot legally." Again, I agree with the idea, but my 60 yo prostate cancer patient isn't interested in legalization and you're representing him when you go to steps of the capitol. He is not a longhaired, tie-dye wearing stoner just like most patients, including my 54 yo old patient with breast cancer. They shouldn't be represented as hippies trying to get legal pot. They don't deserve it. They deserve to be represented by professionals with a intelligent message to present in the proper ways with the proper respect for our elected officials and the system which we have representing us.

 

Can a rally work? Yes, it can if used in the proper way presenting the proper message. The representatives of this rally have shown in the past they are not capable of presenting the proper message. That's why the ENTIRE COMMUNITY will not sign on to this, and are not supporting it. That's why you are all here begging to get support. Because you cannot get it anywhere.

 

I don't have anything against any of you personally. I'm sure many of you are really good people. washtenaut is a good writer. I appreciate what he/she does. I wish more people were as eloquent at letter writing. Can you imagine 1000s of individually written letters as articulate as washtenaut is? What a powerhouse letter writing campaign that would be! Maybe you guys could work on that instead of getting 50 hippies shouting stuff in front of the capitol. (Yeah, look at my avatar. I am a hippie. I'm the one sitting down in the photo. That's my ex, Lisa, smelling the flowers. We were on Grateful Dead tour when that picture was taken.)

[Dr. Bob]

What have the past rally's accomplished? not much , a little media spin in our favor and a little not in our favor, as for the senate and house no effect,

 

I would tend to agree with this, I think they were viewed unfavorably as a mob decending and disrespecting the capital. No organized message, people smoking marijuana in the crowd as school kids came in from the buses for their big trip to the capital, profanity, 'colorful' characters dressed up in what can best be described as 'attire celebrating the recreational use of cannabis', and such.

 

It is far easier to convert an undecided rep into a confirmed enemy as opposed to bringing him/her to our cause. So far the rallies have been very effective on the former and minimal on the latter simply because of their approach. That is a direct reflecton of organization and PR skills, none of which were evident at those rallies. And you ask us for a 4th under the same conditions?

 

A simple letter was what stopped the vote on the HB and resulted in key changes for the next vote a couple of weeks later. It worked because of who wrote and signed that letter- people that were known and respected, that had been involved in the process. A rally held in desperation by a 'retired' leader that had very little effect or respect in the capital is rather sad. Trying to relive glory days of the past where folks looked to you for leadership is nice, but this is beyond that. What is needed is effective unity as shown by the signators of that letter, the new blood in this site, and the organized message that is being presented.

 

Dr. Bob

[cristinew]

It's fine to point out problems with the bills but why lie about them? If you cannot tell the truth about the bills then you have a hidden agenda--so what is your hidden agenda for the rally?

 

 

yes why would that be

[Dr. Bob]

 

 

Here is the problem with this rally. The OP posted a comment on SB 418. I went and read SB 418 and you can too. The comment is a complete lie.

 

It's fine to point out problems with the bills but why lie about them? If you cannot tell the truth about the bills then you have a hidden agenda--so what is your hidden agenda for the rally?

 

SB 418 does not prevent someone from suing the state. Especially for civil rights violations! SB 418 simply states that the act cannot be construed as creating a cause of action. Obviously whomever wrote the comment doesn't know what creating a cause of action means. If you want to sue the state for civil rights violations your only vehicle is through the Michigan Constitution. If the state violates your civil rights, as provided by the Michigan Constitution, then you can sue the state. Nothing in SB 418 would prevent someone from suing the state for a civil rights violation.

 

I'm not going to parse the rest of the comments and check them against the actual bills because it's a waste of time. Whomever wrote the comments has an agenda and they are lying to you to achieve that agenda. I, for one, am not showing up for a rally when I don't know what the message will be and when I know I am being lied to in order to get me there.

 

In no way am I saying I support the senate bills. What I am saying is don't talk to me like I'm a 5 year old in an effort to influence me. Don't tinkle on me and tell me it's raining.

 

I have a feeling I know who wrote those comments and I am betting it is the same person who has lied to us all along. This just provides yet another opportunity to see that in black and white.

 

I can smell Joe's version of reality from a mile away. Complete misunderstanding of basic concepts, and that is why I viewed the 'descriptions' of each bill with distrust. Long ago I learned to actually look at the bills rather than rely on someone like Joe to interpret them for me. I remember sitting at the Holland City Council meeting, to try and present good information to them so they could come to good decisions. Joe was there and spoke. After whinning away about the 'right to farm' act and trying to 'serve them' copies of various laws so he could 'hold them accountable for their actions' later, I realized that we as a community lost our audience. They were undecided and converted to confirmed enemies based on the way he treated them.

 

I don't want that same type of interference now. Too many swing votes are out there. We need to spend our time educating rather than doing damage control for Joe, as we have had to do for 2 years. That said, he did form a good 'lightning rod' for the rest of the community to rally against, so in a way I'll credit him in part with the unity we have now.

 

Bring your dozen, have fun, try and behave yourselves in front of the public. Leave the bull horn home.

 

Dr. Bob

[Restorium2]

It's fine to point out problems with the bills but why lie about them? If you cannot tell the truth about the bills then you have a hidden agenda--so what is your hidden agenda for the rally?

 

 

yes why would that be

Most likely just bungling.

[+washtenaut]

OK, bear with me for just a minute...please.

 

Try to imagine that Washtenaut is trying to put together this rally Next Tuesday, 5/29, at the Capitol steps.

 

I know it is last minute and all but we have so few opportunities to get any press coverage of our issues and the Senate votes are approaching. The dancing cannabis plant will probably get some bad press but lets face it, we get a steady diet of that anyway. This is a chance to get at least some positive statements out in the media.

 

Since it looks like there may be sparse attendance Washtenaut is trying to gather as many groups with like goals so as to have meaningful attendance. Please, unite!!

 

While he would prefer a medical cannabis rally, it is tough to get a large number of patients to travel to Lansing, for a variety of reasons. We need bodies and boots so Washtenaut has invited all pro cannabis people to attend.

 

Now, would you please attend my rally? I just want to get our issues airtime in the media. That is my agenda, period.

 

We are right. We need to shine light on the actions of the legislature. This rally will give us a chance to put the injustices in front of the public.

 

Why not attend my rally?

 

If Joe promised not to attend, would you go then?

[+washtenaut]

I can smell Joe's version of reality from a mile away. Complete misunderstanding of basic concepts, and that is why I viewed the 'descriptions' of each bill with distrust. Long ago I learned to actually look at the bills rather than rely on someone like Joe to interpret them for me. I remember sitting at the Holland City Council meeting, to try and present good information to them so they could come to good decisions. Joe was there and spoke. After whinning away about the 'right to farm' act and trying to 'serve them' copies of various laws so he could 'hold them accountable for their actions' later, I realized that we as a community lost our audience. They were undecided and converted to confirmed enemies based on the way he treated them.

 

I don't want that same type of interference now. Too many swing votes are out there. We need to spend our time educating rather than doing damage control for Joe, as we have had to do for 2 years. That said, he did form a good 'lightning rod' for the rest of the community to rally against, so in a way I'll credit him in part with the unity we have now.

 

Bring your dozen, have fun, try and behave yourselves in front of the public. Leave the bull horn home.

 

Dr. Bob

 

 

Let me repeat my questions.....

 

You talk about it being a poor idea BECAUSE it will be poorly attended. Why not encourage people to attend and then it might be a successful way to get our story told?

 

If this rally is not a good idea, then just tell me, what is your plan for getting the press to write about our plight??

[CaveatLector]

What would the brand message be of this rally? When the Lansing news runs the story what will be in the headline? If it is taken over by the legalization crowd (and don't get me wrong I am not against them) then what does that say for medical cannabis? What message does that send? How does a pro-legalization message affect the outcome of the senate vote? It doesn't.

 

I think this "boots on the ground" idea is just all wrong. The message that is projected form the rally is what is important. Sending mixed messages will hurt, not help. Look at the last rally--legalization people sat on the steps of the capitol holding their signs while the speakers talked. 2 large tables were out front on Capitol Ave. with legalization literature. Every person who walked by was bombarded by signature collectors. Unless you stood there for at least 5 minutes then you didn't know it was a pro med mj rally. It was a complete joke.

 

Before anyone participates they should ask what is the message that you are trying to project and can that message be effectively projected with the people who will show up or will the rally be hijacked?

[Santas_Helper]

This rally is for ME, to try and keep my Liberties

This rally is for YOU, to try and preserve your Rights

This rally is for Our Law, that has not been fully implemented as of yet

and lastly, This rally is to Show them, I am NOT a CRIMINAL, and beleive in this Law as writen.

 

Everyone living a better life because of this needs to attend this rally. If only 50 show up, then I will be with 49 Friends.

Santas_Helper

[CGorganic]

So we have choice. Sit home and let the lawmakers pass whatever they wish without any regard to the impact of their constituents or........show up at the capitol and make the lawmakers aware that the laws they pass effect real people and those people are watching and taking names.

It could be a silent protest and still get the message across.

I'm not sure what is planned, but sitting it out isn't an option in my mind.

[Dr. Bob]

Let me repeat my questions.....

 

You talk about it being a poor idea BECAUSE it will be poorly attended. Why not encourage people to attend and then it might be a successful way to get our story told?

 

If this rally is not a good idea, then just tell me, what is your plan for getting the press to write about our plight??

 

Let me answer the question then.

 

A rally or protest without an organized message, quality speakers, and with chaos WILL get press. Do we, as a community, want the press and the legislature having a take home message about bj's in a parking lot and legalization? Do we want a photo of a screaming pot plant on the front page of the Lansing State Journal? Do we want Rick Jones have a chance, and column inches, in the state journal talking about how 'people using medical marijuana to justify drug abuse- look at the way they behaved on the capital steps....there were school children for God's sake....we have to protect the little children and puppies from these people abusing the law'.

 

Joe can gather a crowd, so can a car wreck on the side of the road. The problem is, he can't take that crowd he got and use it to effectively lobby. So what is left? He uses the crowd to effectively damage our efforts. I don't want to be in another meeting where they say 'who is this blueberry guy' and laugh. I'd rather be working on convincing them that unwarranted searches of homes are a civil rights issue, not a marijuana issue. That people are entitled to their day in court and to present any defense they want. That telemedicine provides access to rural areas that don't have doctors willing to sign certifications. I don't want to have to explain how the communtiy is not the farmers market, and that the 'right to farm act' is not what we are talking about. We are talking about sick people and something that eases their suffering in their own homes.

 

Dr. Bob

[+washtenaut]

The purpose of Wastenaut's rally is to draw attention to the injustices hidden in the amendments and to draw attention to the insanity of cannabis prohibition. As mentioned, a strictly medical rally would be closer to my personal agenda but I need people to attend so have invited others with similar goals.

 

The whole idea of the event is to shine light on the legislative process. Since we do not have the cash to pay for them, the politicians will do whatever they want UNLESS they know people are watching and their image and electability could be hurt.

 

The message of Washtenaut's 'protest-rally' is that we object to the pending legislation because it hurts legitimate patients. We would like the press to carry that message to the people. Putting aside all of our past differences and having all groups unite at Washtenaut's protest-rally would send a very powerful message.

 

Please attend "Washtenaut's rally".

 

 

 

If the group leaders would unite behind this message (or any message for that matter), write a new unity letter to the Senate, House, and the Press, and join the others at the Capitol on 5/29, it could be very effective in getting that message to the people.

 

If the leaders here discourage attendance, Washtenaut's protest-rally will be less effective.

 

If the Unity Group leaders won't support this rally, does the Unity Group plan to do anything public before the Senate votes?

[Dr. Bob]

So we have choice. Sit home and let the lawmakers pass whatever they wish without any regard to the impact of their constituents or........show up at the capitol and make the lawmakers aware that the laws they pass effect real people and those people are watching and taking names.

It could be a silent protest and still get the message across.

I'm not sure what is planned, but sitting it out isn't an option in my mind.

 

Want to be effective, write a letter to your rep, tell him how this wonderful medicine has improved your life. Discuss specific problems you have with the bills, and how it will affect you and your family. Enclose a photo of you and your family. Tell him you trust his judgement to do the right thing. Convince him why your cause is something he would want to be involved in.

 

That is highly effective.

 

Dr. Bob

[Dr. Bob]

The purpose of Wastenaut's rally is to draw attention to the injustices hidden in the amendments and to draw attention to the insanity of cannabis prohibition. As mentioned, a strictly medical rally would be closer to my personal agenda but I need people to attend so have invited others with similar goals.

 

The whole idea of the event is to shine light on the legislative process. Since we do not have the cash to pay for them, the politicians will do whatever they want UNLESS they know people are watching and their image and electability could be hurt.

 

The message of Washtenaut's 'protest-rally' is that we object to the pending legislation because it hurts legitimate patients. We would like the press to carry that message to the people. Putting aside all of our past differences and having all groups unite at Washtenaut's protest-rally would send a very powerful message.

 

Please attend "Washtenaut's rally".

 

 

 

If the group leaders would unite behind this message (or any message for that matter), write a new unity letter to the Senate, House, and the Press, and join the others at the Capitol on 5/29, it could be very effective in getting that message to the people.

 

If the leaders here discourage attendance, Washtenaut's protest-rally will be less effective.

 

If the Unity Group leaders won't support this rally, does the Unity Group plan to do anything public before the Senate votes?

 

Public actions before the senators vote you want.... How does encouraging compliance so there aren't newspaper stories about 200+ plant 'medical grows', how about 'encouraging' idiots to not put comments on MLive about 'I don't care what they done, a quit ALL mara ju ana cases, and we don't support Dr. Bob' comments that make us look like fools to the general public, how about putting out some postive stories about how I was able to stop ALL narcotics since I got my card, and I haven't had a flare of my crohn's in a year. Public action like that?

 

Does an unruly mob swearing and screaming unfocused messages from the capital fall under the catagory of 'any action is better than no action' or 'bad press is better than no press?' Let's be effective in our opposition. No one here has all the right answers, but I and many other can spot a really bad one from a distance.

 

Wash, I'll consider attending your rally if you will publish a list of speakers, what your message is, and what you recommend are the standards of behavior for YOUR rally. No Joes or other loose cannons allowed, I don't want to be part of a circus that will damage the community.

 

Dr. Bob

[+washtenaut]

Celliach, Caveat, Dr. Bob, etc....

 

There is not a legislator in Lansing that has not gotten at least 30 letters that I have personally written. The email-o-matic held many of my efforts. Most of these letters dealt with the exact issues you mention. I tried very hard to educate and enlighten the reps when I thought that was needed. I think we are past that point.

 

The reps have gotten a pretty good education. The ones that do not now know the benefits are willfully blind. They pretend that they are unaware so that they can maintain their opposition. I call it political cover and it needs to be taken from them.

 

The fight now, imo, is to show the people that the politicians know the full impact of their bills on patients. The press is the only way that I know to get that message to the public.

 

I mentioned self immolation as a publicity stunt but no one stepped up to that challenge either....lol

 

Look, the message will not be pure and someone might swear. Groups of people are just that, people. One cannot control to the level you would like.

 

Do you folks really think that doing absolutely nothing publicly to object to these bills is the best course?

[Restorium2]

Celliach, Caveat, Dr. Bob, etc....

 

There is not a legislator in Lansing that has not gotten at least 30 letters that I have personally written. The email-o-matic held many of my efforts. Most of these letters dealt with the exact issues you mention. I tried very hard to educate and enlighten the reps when I thought that was needed. I think we are past that point.

 

The reps have gotten a pretty good education. The ones that do not now know the benefits are willfully blind. They pretend that they are unaware so that they can maintain their opposition. I call it political cover and it needs to be taken from them.

 

The fight now, imo, is to show the people that the politicians know the full impact of their bills on patients. The press is the only way that I know to get that message to the public.

 

I mentioned self immolation as a publicity stunt but no one stepped up to that challenge either....lol

 

Look, the message will not be pure and someone might swear. Groups of people are just that, people. One cannot control to the level you would like.

 

Do you folks really think that doing absolutely nothing publicly to object to these bills is the best course?

You have had quite a bit of exposure to the reps. Can you honestly say, with your experience, that a protest would do any good? We got together, the whole movement, and told them how we feel about the bills. That didn't do anything but give them a scowl for a few days. They did what they wanted anyway. Who is trying to tell you that we would get more than another scowl out of them with this protest? This can't be your idea. This had to be ill hatched from someone who has some other motivation than changing a few politician's minds. Because you and I both know it's not going to change the votes on these bills. So you have to wonder...what's up with this? Or not even have to wonder, if start down that path....