Supremes Reverse Coa On King & Kolonek

[Dr. Bob]

I own a small package delivery company consisting of one 26' straight truck. The law that may go into effect where they run my plate and its comes up medical mary j user on a registered commerical vehicle. Zero tonerance has me scraced to death. This lastest sc ruling has me thinking my best way is to aviod this would be one put the truck in someone elses name or dont register with the state just use my doc rec. What about being a care giver off just doc recomendations? Any thoughts on that?

 

You can't be a caregiver without participating in the registry and having registry associated patients.

 

Dr. Bob

 

A caregiver is someone that grows plants for another person and transfers with or without compensation. You have an argument for your own 12 plants with a recommendation, but you can't have more or receive compensation unless you are registry associated.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Dr. Bob

[Dr. Bob]

YUP! Teeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

 

Aand plant it in your front yard. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA(coffee vectors from nose)

 

My coffee and hash tase especially good this morning.

 

Plant it in your front yard? Really?

[+Annnie]

Now hold.. an unregistered Caregiver could also put forth a sec 8 defense.. Wouldnt be fun or cheap.. but is now legal to do.. ASK TERRY PROVOST..

[Dr. Bob]

What is an 'unregistered caregiver'? There is no such thing. Where are these ideas coming from, certainly not the act or the administrative rules.

 

A caregiver must have patients that are associated through the registry to be a caregiver. They must be named by a patient and approved by the state to be a caregiver. To do that, the state must have the application, ie register both the patient and the caregiver. There is simply no way to legally be a 'free range' caregiver, wandering the land in search of patients needing your services.

 

In case you didn't notice, there is NO WAY to become a caregiver alone, as you can simply become a patient. You cannot get a license as a caregiver and then go out and find patients. You can get a license as a patient.

 

Dr. Bob

Edited June 1, 2012 by Dr. Bob

[Herb Cannabis]

Absolutely Not. One certification does not give you a 'lifelong get out of jail free' card. This is a really bad idea.

 

The reason being is that IF you go through the certification process and register, you must do so on an annual basis. If the new bills pass, it may be every two years.

 

To rely on the the certification alone, you would really need to meet the same construction. IE you would have to be re-evaluated just as if you were getting a new license.

 

This is not legalization, if you rely on the Section 8 you will must accept the possibility that you will be jailed and have to go to court. Your case by be dismissed, and should be dismissed, but you never know.

 

This is a great win, but we can't just look at it superficially and say this means we get seen once and we are good forever, and the power of that cert is like a cross and holy water for the leo vampire.

 

The last thing we need is a bunch of people with overages that they 'medically need' showing up in court with certifications from 2009 and trying to push this issue. Even if they somehow win, there are those that will point it out as an abuse of the system, which is why we need this new bill that restricts the act. Or have you forgotten that is how we got the last set of bills?

 

Dr. Bob

 

I don't see anything in the law that says that I must be re-certified annually. In my case, I have prostrate cancer, I don't see it going away before my demise, so why should I re-certify? It is a waste of my and your time and my money. You doctors are the only ones benefiting at my expense if this were the case. Am I wrong?

[Mickeydee]

I own a small package delivery company consisting of one 26' straight truck. The law that may go into effect where they run my plate and its comes up medical mary j user on a registered commerical vehicle. Zero tonerance has me scraced to death. This lastest sc ruling has me thinking my best way is to aviod this would be one put the truck in someone elses name or dont register with the state just use my doc rec. What about being a care giver off just doc recomendations? Any thoughts on that?

What if the truck was owned by your C corporation? I have one, it owns the vehicles and my name doesn't appear on the registration, just that of the corporation.

[trix]

I think this is a great victory for everyone, But I think the future still lies in the hands of LEO, we really need to educate them on the law. Now more than ever, also I think this may be that time we have been looking for to meet with our reps, I liked the "picnic" idea. What better time to try and accomplish that task, then now right after this huge decision has been dealt towards legislation.

 

Otherwise Pt's will still be arrested, and will still face that dreaded day in court while they wait to hear what a Judge has to say, all the while having to exhaust their finacial resources to pay for a lawyer. Court is expensive and very hard on ones mental state.

 

(IMO)This is a good time for that legal fund setup by donations from within the community, we can't afford to let these cases get held to a plea any longer, now that we can use are cards as a defense in court. A Plea bargin should not be acceptable anymore, that takes money in order to acomplish. been there done that...Its a hard task to acomplish for those on a fixed income.

 

I wouldn't advise anyone to flaunt their grow, like stated "grow it in your front yard" that isn't a smart route unless you want to tinkle off LEO more than they already are. Keep your grow and status to yourself and keep it under the limit and don't push your luck to much otherwise it may backfire and bite everyone in the arse.

 

Again another congrats to King, Bob, and everyone else that has been stuck in that "gray area" for so long now!

 

Trix

[GregS]

Bad advice. Are you willing to personally fund the legal team to defend a patient that follows it? Care to have a discussion about construction and cite a few examples of court cases?

 

Dr. Bob

 

PS my ox is still plowing the fields. Hopefully CL will address this properly before someone gets hurt.

 

We are big people who can make our decisions depending on the facts as we see them. I do not appreciate your condescending tone, and this is not the first time. I will continue to encourage the most liberal rendering of the law that I can manage. There is nothing in what I said that would indicate that people should not be careful.

 

There is no reason for a mod to stop this conversation.

[+Annnie]

An unregistered Caregiver is approved by the voters and has already been tested.. TERRY PROVOST... Kalkaska County..

 

I also am over the condescending tone..

[GregS]

What is an 'unregistered caregiver'? There is no such thing. Where are these ideas coming from, certainly not the act or the administrative rules.

 

A caregiver must have patients that are associated through the registry to be a caregiver. They must be named by a patient and approved by the state to be a caregiver. To do that, the state must have the application, ie register both the patient and the caregiver. There is simply no way to legally be a 'free range' caregiver, wandering the land in search of patients needing your services.

 

In case you didn't notice, there is NO WAY to become a caregiver alone, as you can simply become a patient. You cannot get a license as a caregiver and then go out and find patients. You can get a license as a patient.

 

Dr. Bob

 

You have this twisted around too Bob.

 

"Sec. 8. (a) Except as provided in section 7, a patient and a patient's primary caregiver, if any, may assert the medical purpose for using marihuana as a defense to any prosecution involving marihuana, and this defense shall be presumed valid where the evidence shows that:.."

 

There is no requirement that the caregiver who chooses to enjoy section 8 protection has to be registered.

[GregS]

I predict that it will come to the point that the police will become discouraged to the point that they will have to completely back away from any enforcement of medically necessary use. It is now futile for them to continue their misconduct against us.

 

The sooner the better.

[+Annnie]

Of course any common man or woman would know that they will need to go to court and prove imunity.. imunity Would not be given at the time of arrest.. The three pts of Sec 8 Were proven in Terry Provosts Case and it was dismissed as it reads..

[+Annnie]

I predict that it will come to the point that the police will become discouraged to the point that they will have to completely back away from any enforcement of medically necessary use. It is now futile for them to continue their misconduct against us.

 

The sooner the better.

 

THANK GOD..

[+washtenaut]

I predict that it will come to the point that the police will become discouraged to the point that they will have to completely back away from any enforcement of medically necessary use. It is now futile for them to continue their misconduct against us.

 

The sooner the better.

 

I don't think it will be futile until the prosecutors' losses start to add up. They will then tell the LEO Chiefs that they don't want these cases any longer

[peanutbutter]

Nothing about it having to be current? For example, would a patients recommendation from 2009 allow use of section 4 defense for a 2012 arrest?

 

There is no such thing as a section 4 defense. Section four is the protection afforded to keep you out of court. Thus not a defense.

 

Section eight is what causes a case to be dismissed. That is the defense for a court case.

 

Section eight does not require a ID card to be used. Current, expired or otherwise. It DOES require a doctors letter to have been issued before arrest.

So did a doctor write a letter before the 2012 arrest? Yes, in 2009.

 

There are other details that need to be considered.

[Shredder]

What is an 'unregistered caregiver'? There is no such thing. Where are these ideas coming from, certainly not the act or the administrative rules.

 

A caregiver must have patients that are associated through the registry to be a caregiver. They must be named by a patient and approved by the state to be a caregiver. To do that, the state must have the application, ie register both the patient and the caregiver. There is simply no way to legally be a 'free range' caregiver, wandering the land in search of patients needing your services.

 

In case you didn't notice, there is NO WAY to become a caregiver alone, as you can simply become a patient. You cannot get a license as a caregiver and then go out and find patients. You can get a license as a patient.

 

Dr. Bob

 

I'm not so sure about your law advice here Dr Bob. Section 8 says what it says, and courts will interprete it as they will, but the only place where compensation is mentioned clearly is not section 8. If the courts allow reasonable compensation on transfers clearly covered under section 8, then maybe you could be a free lance caregiver, if you meet all of the section 8 requirements. It's too early to fully what will happen I'd say.......shredder

[GregS]

I don't think it will be futile until the prosecutors' losses start to add up. They will then tell the LEO Chiefs that they don't want these cases any longer

 

Which is precisely why my prediction can be counted as unavoidable.

[CaveatLector]

I don't think it will be futile until the prosecutors' losses start to add up. They will then tell the LEO Chiefs that they don't want these cases any longer

I agree. There is going to have to be some history before some of these prosecutors give up. Small cases, like 1 or 2 plants over or 1 oz over, will easily be defended if a defendant gets on the stand and says s/he needed it to ensure a continuing supply because s/he used x ozs per week and the plants averaged y ozs. Larger cases will probably be the ones that end up going to trial. Small home grows will become a waste of time.

[peanutbutter]

Absolutely Not. One certification does not give you a 'lifelong get out of jail free' card. This is a really bad idea.

 

The reason being is that IF you go through the certification process and register, you must do so on an annual basis. If the new bills pass, it may be every two years.

 

To rely on the the certification alone, you would really need to meet the same construction. IE you would have to be re-evaluated just as if you were getting a new license.

 

This is not legalization, if you rely on the Section 8 you will must accept the possibility that you will be jailed and have to go to court. Your case by be dismissed, and should be dismissed, but you never know.

 

This is a great win, but we can't just look at it superficially and say this means we get seen once and we are good forever, and the power of that cert is like a cross and holy water for the leo vampire.

 

The last thing we need is a bunch of people with overages that they 'medically need' showing up in court with certifications from 2009 and trying to push this issue. Even if they somehow win, there are those that will point it out as an abuse of the system, which is why we need this new bill that restricts the act. Or have you forgotten that is how we got the last set of bills?

 

Dr. Bob

 

Oh Great .. another topic we could argue over if we wanted to.

 

I think that, if people are going to depend on a letter only, they should carry the letter AND a copy of this ruling.

 

It's a crap shoot. It might work, it might not.

 

I know a doctors letter and copy of Greg Schmidts breakdown of the law kept my friend out of jail. In Livingston county in December of '08.

Many times leo is hungry for solid information.

 

It might be a while before their bosses tell them what is up or down.

 

I'd suggest having the right ammo to fill in the void whenever possible.

[+mayorherb]

I think this is a great victory for everyone, But I think the future still lies in the hands of LEO, we really need to educate them on the law. Now more than ever, also I think this may be that time we have been looking for to meet with our reps, I liked the "picnic" idea. What better time to try and accomplish that task, then now right after this huge decision has been dealt towards legislation.

 

Otherwise Pt's will still be arrested, and will still face that dreaded day in court while they wait to hear what a Judge has to say, all the while having to exhaust their finacial resources to pay for a lawyer. Court is expensive and very hard on ones mental state.

 

(IMO)This is a good time for that legal fund setup by donations from within the community, we can't afford to let these cases get held to a plea any longer, now that we can use are cards as a defense in court. A Plea bargin should not be acceptable anymore, that takes money in order to acomplish. been there done that...Its a hard task to acomplish for those on a fixed income.

 

I wouldn't advise anyone to flaunt their grow, like stated "grow it in your front yard" that isn't a smart route unless you want to tinkle off LEO more than they already are. Keep your grow and status to yourself and keep it under the limit and don't push your luck to much otherwise it may backfire and bite everyone in the arse.

 

Again another congrats to King, Bob, and everyone else that has been stuck in that "gray area" for so long now!

 

Trix

Our compassion Club ( Clare County Compassion Club.ning) invited our local Sheriff and a local Attorney to one of our meetings..For Questions and answers..As i see it..This is a way yo EDUCATE our LAw enforcement also.. From talking to OUR local Sheriff, he needs some education on our law..He is willing to ocme and listen..We will let everyone know what meeting they will be at..This is/will be a good chance to help the Sheriff and police see our side if nothing else..HOPEFULLY we can educate them on our law..

[peanutbutter]

What is an 'unregistered caregiver'? There is no such thing. Where are these ideas coming from, certainly not the act or the administrative rules.

 

A caregiver must have patients that are associated through the registry to be a caregiver. They must be named by a patient and approved by the state to be a caregiver. To do that, the state must have the application, ie register both the patient and the caregiver. There is simply no way to legally be a 'free range' caregiver, wandering the land in search of patients needing your services.

 

In case you didn't notice, there is NO WAY to become a caregiver alone, as you can simply become a patient. You cannot get a license as a caregiver and then go out and find patients. You can get a license as a patient.

 

Dr. Bob

 

LOL me

 

The way this is set up by the SC now, this is what I see as legal:

 

Patient finds out they have stage four cancer. Their doctor writes their letter and mentions Simpson oil to them.

That day they start the Simpson program.

 

Do you think the patient should have to wait longer to start?

 

OK I'm sure you agree that a patient that has a doctors letter should be able to start that day.

 

Who may legally supply such a patient? Section eight talks about the patients caregiver. Even those that aren't registered.

 

Ignore the caregiver for just a split second. The unregistered patient. That patient can not have a registered caregiver.

Section eight does not require the registry to function.

What is a caregiver in section eight? Who is the caregiver for the unregistered patient? Section eight protects them also.

 

Medically speaking, how long should persons wait to hand such a patient RSO to try to keep them alive? Would you suggest the patient wait twenty days?

Edited June 1, 2012 by peanutbutter

[+mayorherb]

THANK GOD..

AMEN

[+mayorherb]

You have this twisted around too Bob.

 

"Sec. 8. (a) Except as provided in section 7, a patient and a patient's primary caregiver, if any, may assert the medical purpose for using marihuana as a defense to any prosecution involving marihuana, and this defense shall be presumed valid where the evidence shows that:.."

 

There is no requirement that the caregiver who chooses to enjoy section 8 protection has to be registered.

AMEN gREG..

[Dr. Bob]

I don't see anything in the law that says that I must be re-certified annually. In my case, I have prostrate cancer, I don't see it going away before my demise, so why should I re-certify? It is a waste of my and your time and my money. You doctors are the only ones benefiting at my expense if this were the case. Am I wrong?

 

Yes you are.

[bobandtorey]

don't count on him showing up but i hope he does