Some Stuff On Sec. 8 But Also Some Other Stuff And Some Bickering, Off Topic Stuff And Some Name Calling-sprinkled With A Pinch Of Tangential Opinions

[cristinew]

Michigan Delivery Service

[Dr. Bob]

Michigan Delivery Service

 

I caught that too.

 

Dr. Bob

[restlesslegs]

I love the passive aggressive postings.

Don't confuse a person trying not to be a total butt hole as being passive aggressive.

[Dr. Bob]

Ok, whatever you say Ms. Moderator.

[SFC]

Will you sing the Marine battle hymn for us MDS?

[Dr. Bob]

Thank you! Nicely stated. I believe the Supreme Court just handed down a Ruling end of May, that infact, codifies the Intent of the People Must be Upheld, and given the Broad understanding of the words of the medical marihuana law. That ruling was very decisive in what they said in the very rare appendixed brief in the end of it.

I figured this site would of been aware of this monumental ruling and the understanding the State must take when interpreting this Act. Broad and As the General Citizen would interprit it, not how a Legal Professional, Insurance Professional, Medical Professional would, but as John Q Public would understand it.

 

Seems very strange to me that a medical marihuana site would rather bow down to invalid interpretations, instead of holding strong to what was given to the CItizens of the State, by the Citizens of the State. My goodness, so many sheeple anymore.

 

It's really quite sad that So many have forgotten what our grandfathers, fathers, brothers and our sons, and now even our daughters die for every day they fight in a Military Exercise, while their homeland is being stripped of the rights they are fighting and dying to protect. While they protect our freedoms (even if we were falsely lead to the fight) away from home, is it OUR Duty, to protect their freedoms while they are away.

 

Seems like most here just dont care about their civic duties while they cheer for our dying loved ones.

KInd of shamefull not to atleast try.

 

Dont you think?

MDS

 

Which arrest would you like me to cite from people making their own interpretation of the Act? 3 in the last couple of days here in Clare Co. A friendly county to MMJ. Just follow the rules and transfer to people with whom you are associated via the registry in a caregiver/patient relationship.

 

But clearly you have joined the site to promote something- a product, idea, or interpretation, so go ahead a pitch us. How do you think the act should be interpreted? How can we help you?

 

Dr. Bob

Edited June 23, 2012 by Dr. Bob

[GregS]

So much for the Olive Branch. There you go again seeing "Joe Cain", not about forgiving him it is about the rest of everyone getting along. Enough your contempt is obvious and I will not play either of your childish games. You can not either of you see an honest hand out lets make peace to safe your souls.

 

Kraazy Joe is still lashing out at damm near the rest of the entire community. He will have to shut the hell up and stay out of the picture for a long time before we intend to acknowledge him as a worthwhile contributor to any discussion. He has pushed things beyond what is reasonable or acceptable. For that he is being held in due contempt. As long as you continue to support him you remain just another of his toadies.

[Dr. Bob]

Kraazy Joe is still lashing out at damm near the rest of the entire community. He will have to shut the hell up and stay out of the picture for a long time before we intend to acknowledge him as a worthwhile contributor to any discussion. He has pushed things beyond what is reasonable or acceptable. For that he is being held in due contempt. As long as you continue to support him you remain just another of his toadies.

 

Well said Greg..... well said.

 

Dr. Bob

[AKenewell]

Kraazy Joe is still lashing out at damm near the rest of the entire community. He will have to shut the hell up and stay out of the picture for a long time before we intend to acknowledge him as a worthwhile contributor to any discussion. He has pushed things beyond what is reasonable or acceptable. For that he is being held in due contempt. As long as you continue to support him you remain just another of his toadies.

 

I have been trying to tell her the same thing for a while now..

[GregS]

I have been trying to tell her the same thing for a while now..

 

I know. There are all kinds out there.

[SFC]

And as you see Restless, we all do not have to agree and we can argue a point without going insane. That is something dear leader and the Cainettes cannot seem to comprehend.

[CaveatLector]

I would point out to restlesslegs that dear leader regularly disparages others on his heap of a website. Yet you are a moderator there and allow that to stand? I haven't personally visited the site but I see cut and paste postings from him. The last one I saw makes severe personal attacks on Komorn. Is that acceptable on that site's terms of use? If not then I suggest you do your duty as a mod there restless! Do you edit those posts there? Do you give dear leader a warning? Didn't think so...

[Dr. Bob]

I would point out to restlesslegs that dear leader regularly disparages others on his heap of a website. Yet you are a moderator there and allow that to stand? I haven't personally visited the site but I see cut and paste postings from him. The last one I saw makes severe personal attacks on Komorn. Is that acceptable on that site's terms of use? If not then I suggest you do your duty as a mod there restless! Do you edit those posts there? Do you give dear leader a warning? Didn't think so...

 

Did you see what he had to say about me? Restless, as a moderator, you allowed that to stay up? Something that will result in legal action? There is a defamation case pending right now with one of his gnomes- just waiting for the transcripts to file, I have no problem adding him to it. I suggest you remove it immediately because he is not well enough to realize the danger he is in.

 

Dr. Bob

Edited June 23, 2012 by Dr. Bob

[AKenewell]

Right on guy's..and she's here to scold us for what we say..or not being kind enough. That's crazy..so as far as I am concerned she can take her hypocritical talk somewhere else, along with her olive branch!!

[restlesslegs]

OMG you are just too laughable! Lies sputtered in this forum anymore and your misleading patients is so helpful to the community, take a bow for all you do. You can not see past your own egos. This Is Not patient care, get rich folks and claim it as being helpful to the patients, that is known as................. yea thought so

 

LOL Moderators do not delete posts, they do not have powers it is called moderate for a reason, it isn't needed at that site. Everyone expresses their opinion freely it is not censored, we are all adults who can choose for ourselves what we say and do on the forum and in our private lifes. We don't have someone bullying the other members because they don't agree with each other.

 

Just laughable

Edited June 23, 2012 by restlesslegs

[AKenewell]

OMG you are just too laughable! Lies sputtered in this forum anymore and your misleading patients is so helpful to the community, take a bow for all you do. You can not see past your own egos. This Is Not patient care or protecting them, get rich folks and claim it as being helpful to the patients, that is known as................. yea thought so

 

No you have it backwards..this site is now for the patients and doing the right thing..that's why Joe is gone..he was NOT!! So now the truth comes out..is that how you really feel about this site?? Thought so, YOU HAVE NEVER FOOLED ME WITH YOUR BS..so why are you here again?

[Dr. Bob]

OMG you are just too laughable! Lies sputtered in this forum anymore and your misleading patients is so helpful to the community, take a bow for all you do. You can not see past your own egos. This Is Not patient care, get rich folks and claim it as being helpful to the patients, that is known as................. yea thought so

 

LOL Moderators do not delete posts, they do not have powers it is called moderate for a reason, it isn't needed at that site. Everyone expresses their opinion freely it is not censored, we are all adults who can choose for ourselves what we say and do on the forum and in our private lifes. We don't have someone bullying the other members because they don't agree with each other.

 

Just laughable

 

Really, does that mean you agree with the post he made about me and 'scores' of people? Now just what do you call that other than defamation which is a tortable offense? Michael, Chad, and CPU have had similar things said about them, and YOU defend that? And you wonder why folks in here don't take you seriously..... I would suggest strongly you start keeping your own house in order and not worry about trying to convince folks here that they represent anything the MMMA or individuals over here would even consider lending credibility to them by association. I expect the post be removed.

 

Dr. Bob

[AKenewell]

OMG you are just too laughable! Lies sputtered in this forum anymore and your misleading patients is so helpful to the community, take a bow for all you do. You can not see past your own egos. This Is Not patient care, get rich folks and claim it as being helpful to the patients, that is known as................. yea thought so

 

LOL Moderators do not delete posts, they do not have powers it is called moderate for a reason, it isn't needed at that site. Everyone expresses their opinion freely it is not censored, we are all adults who can choose for ourselves what we say and do on the forum and in our private lifes. We don't have someone bullying the other members because they don't agree with each other.

 

Just laughable

 

Moderators do delete posts when necessary. We can all choose as adults what we say and do..yes this is true. So you have decided to support defamation over on Joe's site..and you call that being moderate? You have decided to promote the farmer's market..and other ambiguous activities. Yet You have the nerve to come here and make statements that we are hurting patients.. while we are promoting unambiguous compliance. As far as bullying goes..Joe bullied the member's here until he was removed. The only reason he is upset is that he lost a forum to promote his Farmer's Market..that's all he was doing here in the end..and do you really think he's not making money off that??

 

You are the only thing that is laughable..and if you feel bullied so be it..if you are going to come here..and try to tell us to be nice, and moderate us..while you leave lies and slander up..what do you expect?? I think it's time for you to go, and in light of your recent posts..I hope the other staff will agree with me.

 

I just have to add how absolutely intolerable I find it that as you leave up lies and slander over there, and defend it..you are here to scold us on being unkind, and extend an olive branch. Seriously now..are you playing with a full deck??

[imiubu]

sos, different day.

I'd hoped things would have changed here but.. they obviously have not.

If you could read your posts from an an objective view you could see how

pompous some of you are and even more so.. juvenile.

Very sad.

 

CL... if you call cain 'dear leader' one more time, i shall puke.

You may be intending to be sarcastic/ facetious but.. i find it does not become you.

 

Also,

thank you for your sound advise.

 

This thread has been horribly hijacked.

I do apologize for being one of the hijackers.

 

I could hold my tongue no longer.

This bickering is insidious [operating or proceeding in an inconspicuous or seemingly harmless way

but actually with grave effect: an insidious disease], and could certainly scare newcomers away that

are coming here for their 1st time seeking answers, compassion, etc.

Heck, it scares me and i've been a member here for years.

 

And.. just an fyi.. i never drank the koolaid.

Thank you.

[CaveatLector]

sos, different day.

I'd hoped things would have changed here but.. they obviously have not.

If you could read your posts from an an objective view you could see how

pompous some of you are and even more so.. juvenile.

Very sad.

 

CL... if you call cain 'dear leader' one more time, i shall puke.

You may be intending to be sarcastic/ facetious but.. i find it does not become you.

 

Also,

thank you for your sound advise.

 

This thread has been horribly hijacked.

I do apologize for being one of the hijackers.

 

I could hold my tongue no longer.

This bickering is insidious [operating or proceeding in an inconspicuous or seemingly harmless way

but actually with grave effect: an insidious disease], and could certainly scare newcomers away that

are coming here for their 1st time seeking answers, compassion, etc.

Heck, it scares me and i've been a member here for years.

 

And.. just an fyi.. i never drank the koolaid.

Thank you.

 

"Dear leader" connotes the same type of behavior that was common for the last leader of North Korea. The man who controlled all incoming information to his people in an effort to brainwash them. The man who literally would tell his caddy to write down scores that made him look like a better golfer than PGA professionals. The man who claimed 11 holes-in-one in a single round of golf. http://www.abc.net.a...jong-il/3739452

 

You don't see the similarities with the laughable rhetoric? His cries of, "why won't they let me help them? Why won't they let me show them the way?" Those are his words in reference to the 3ma when he got booted. I think he acually believes he is the next coming of christ.

 

As for restlesslegs, you really are a hypocrite. When I read the trash today put out by your dear leader denigrating Komorn I thought of you. I wondered if you would step up and tell him to stop bashing other site owners as you so often do here. Didn't happen though did it? Why? Because you really are his toadie sent to do his dirty work. And before you tell us you aren't his toadie then maybe you can explain why you didn't admonish him??? Until then I suppose you'll be thought of as his wee toadie.

 

FYI imiubu, I'm not intending to be sarcastic or facetious. I really do think he is "dear leader" to his followers. They eat up whatever he spews.

Edited June 23, 2012 by CaveatLector

[Dr. Bob]

Point taken though, I am just as tired of restless and Joe, this was a good thread about the section 8 defense that was hijacked by restless and the like trying to justify Joe's farmers market and other faith based logic, hairbrained notions.

 

Let's just drop it all and leave it to the excellent discussion that started it.

 

Dr. Bob

[Dr. Bob]

From the thread, started by restless, entitled 'Dr. Bob, Dr. Bob, Dr. Bob'

 

-----boy, I wonder if that directed at me? So when you see her type all this 'olive branch crap' just know the nonsense she is posting back on her 'home' site.

1. Today, 02:47 PM#13Croppled1
   

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Please stop inflaming those already upset making things worse for patients . The two sites are like a soap opera and patients need rest not more stress . I realize we all have bad days and are under stress but the point I thought we believed in was not taunting and inflaming one another . In focusing on the common good not attacking individuals who are different or haven't been able to reach the same conclusions . I hope all are safe and doing well here . We lost the American Pain Foundation to bankruptcy earlier this year we need all the positive patient groups that support pain patients as possible . We need peace so we can focus on our work to further the acceptance of medical cannabis especially in addiction medicine where Dr Bob has some involvement . As sick and injured individuals we have no time for personality clashes we all have to bite our tongues and really try to focus on moving society forward by showing we can all get along and act in positive ways . Some say we can't and that is why prohibition should stand . Lets prove them wrong !

Last edited by Croppled1; Today at 02:50 PM.

 

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• Today, 03:41 PM#14restlesslegs
  
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  It's done Croppled1, was done here almost as soon as it was posted. Nothing posted here has ever or will ever be as bad as what is said at other places. Peace among our group here has never been in question and once again will not be in the future. Our goals should be the same among all the people involved with MM but unfortunately that is not going to happen no matter what any of us have said or do will change that fact. Many have tried to help push that forward but to no avail. Many from this forum and others who are new have pointed out the disregard for the patients and for others and the answer back has been name calling, bullying, disregard for others, and the lack of allowing free speech. That will not happen here, we are a fine group and I know we all want the same thing. We will push forward, we may be sick but we are still strong intelligent individuals who will work together.
   
  We lost the American Pain Foundation to bankruptcy earlier this year we need all the positive patient groups that support pain patients as possible .
  That is not good, sorry to hear that, it is now more important then ever that we are here for patients and each other I agree.
   
  If I could I would delete this thread. I do apologize for making anyone uncomfortable.
   
  PS the surgeon has just sewn my tongue back on.
  
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  PPS, you might want to delay that surgery restless, next time maybe engage your brain before you shoot your mouth off against those that are ALSO working hard to make Michigan a safer place for Medical Marijuana. The only difference between the sites is that we are a little better organized, have an actual message that extends beyond the front door of Joe's dispensary in Jackson, and we can understand what we read.

Edited June 23, 2012 by Dr. Bob

[Dr. Bob]

The original conversation was about the section 8 defense, this nonsense started, it is now resolved, good time to close this out before it starts again.

 

Dr. Bob

[Croppled1]

The material written summerizes the topic and is included and taken from reference materials of the MMMA with a polite thank you to those who contribute their valueable time to help patients and their caregivers . All the following is from the MMMA Reference materials .

 

Affirmative Defense for Patients and Caregivers

 

Except as provided below, a patient and a patient's primary caregiver, if any, may assert the medical purpose for using marijuana as a defense to any prosecution involving marijuana, and this defense shall be presumed valid where the evidence shows that:

 

(1) A physician has stated that, in the physician's professional opinion, after having completed a full assessment of the patient's medical history and current medical condition made in the course of a bona fide physician-patient relationship, the patient is likely to receive therapeutic or palliative benefit from the medical use of marijuana to treat or alleviate the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition or symptoms of the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition;

 

(2) The patient and the patient's primary caregiver, if any, were collectively in possession of a quantity of marijuana that was not more than was reasonably necessary to ensure the uninterrupted availability of marijuana for the purpose of treating or alleviating the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition or symptoms of the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition; and

 

(3) (a)The patient and the patient's primary caregiver, if any, were engaged in the acquisition, possession, cultivation, manufacture, use, delivery, transfer, or transportation of marijuana or paraphernalia relating to the use of marijuana to treat or alleviate the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition or symptoms of the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition.

 

b] A person may assert the medical purpose for using marijuana in a motion to dismiss, and the charges shall be dismissed following an evidentiary hearing where the person shows the elements listed in subsection (a).

 

c] If a patient or a patient's primary caregiver demonstrates the patient's medical purpose for using marijuana pursuant to this section, the patient and the patient's primary caregiver shall not be subject to the following for the patient's medical use of marijuana:

(I) disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau; or

(II) forfeiture of any interest in or right to property.

 

 

Exceptions

 

The medical use of marijuana is allowed under state law to the extent that it is carried out in accordance with the provisions of this act.

 

This act shall not permit any person to do any of the following:

(1) Undertake any task under the influence of marijuana, when doing so would constitute negligence or professional malpractice.

 

(2) Possess marijuana, or otherwise engage in the medical use of marijuana:

a] in a school bus;

b] on the grounds of any preschool or primary or secondary school; or

c] in any correctional facility.

 

(3) Smoke marijuana:

a] on any form of public transportation; or

b] in any public place.

 

(4) Operate, navigate, or be in actual physical control of any motor vehicle, aircraft, or motorboat while under the influence of marijuana.

 

(5) Use marijuana if that person does not have a serious or debilitating medical condition.

 

Nothing in this act shall be construed to require:

 

(1) A government medical assistance program or commercial or non-profit health insurer to reimburse a person for costs associated with the medical use of marijuana.

 

(2) An employer to accommodate the ingestion of marijuana in any workplace or any employee working while under the influence of marijuana.

 

Fraudulent representation

To a law enforcement official of any fact or circumstance relating to the medical use of marijuana to avoid arrest or prosecution shall be punishable by a fine of $500.00, which shall be in addition to any other penalties that may apply for making a false statement or for the use of marijuana other than use undertaken pursuant to this act.

 

This Act supersedes all previous acts

All other acts and parts of acts inconsistent with this act do not apply to the medical use of marijuana as provided for by this act.

 

 

SUMMARY

 

There has been much talk and confusion regarding the Affirmative Defense (“AD”) provided for in Section 8(a) of the Michigan Medical Marijuana Act (“the Act”). The following is a very general overview of the AD. Please note that nothing in this post should be read as establishing an attorney-client relationship with the Michigan Medical Marijuana Association, it’s directors, officers, employees or agents, this web-sites administrators, or the posts author. In other words, this general overview is not meant to, nor should it, replace consultation with an attorney.

 

Who may assert the Affirmative Defense?

The Act makes a distinction between a “Qualifying Patient” and a “Patient.” A “qualifying patient” is a person who is eligible to use, possess, acquire, cultivate, transport and deliver marijuana after having been diagnosed by a doctor as suffering from one or more of the debilitating conditions specifically stated in section 3(a)(1)-(3) the Act and otherwise meets the criteria of said Act. In plain English, a “qualifying patient” is a person who meets the requirements of the Act and has received their registry identification (“card”) from the Department of Community Health. As a “qualifying patient” is protected from arrest, prosecution or penalty (including forfeiture of the medicine) under the provisions of the act it is unlikely, though still possible, that a situation will arise where they will need to plead the AD.

 

Conversely, a “patient” is anyone who uses marijuana for medicinal purposes, but does not necessarily qualify under the provisions of the Act and is not eligible to receive their “card” from MDCH. It’s anticipated that the most common reason a person would be a “patient,” rather than a “qualifying patient,” is because their condition is not one of those specified in the Act.

 

The AD may be asserted by a patient or the patients “primary caregiver” for any marijuana charge(s) pending on or issued after December 4, 2008. A case is considered “pending” from the time the charge(s) is formally issued until there is a resolution of the charge(s) by a guilty/no contest plea, a finding of guilt after a trial, or the outright dismissal.

 

Requirements to Establish the Affirmative Defense

 

Section 8 of the Act states that the Affirmative Defense is to be asserted in a Motion to Dismiss. The burden of proving the AD is on the person asserting it, the patient or the patient’s primary caregiver. In order for the AD to be effective, the patient/primary caregiver must establish the elements as provided in the Act by a preponderance of the evidence. The elements are as follows:

A doctor (MD or Osteopath), after having reviewed both the patient’s medical history and current medical condition during the course of a bona fide doctor-patient relationship, has stated (orally or in writing) that the patient is likely to receive therapeutic or palliative benefit from the medicinal use of marijuana.

 

Collectively, the patient and/or primary caregiver do not possess a greater amount than is reasonably necessary to ensure the uninterrupted availability of the medicine used to treat or alleviate that patient’s serious or debilitating medical condition or the symptoms of same.

The marijuana was in fact for the purposes of treating or alleviating the patients serious or debilitating medical condition and/or symptoms of same.

 

According to section 8(3)(B the Act, if the above elements are met, the charges shall be dismissed.

 

What to expect

 

On first glance the above listed elements would seem fairly easy to meet, thereby requiring the charge(s) be dropped. However, litigation is never simple, there are no guarantees of outcome and it is usually quite expensive, both financially and emotionally. It would not be unusual for several months to elapse before a hearing can be scheduled for a Motion to Dismiss. During this time your attorney will be conducting witness interviews, researching law, organizing their evidence, crafting the arguments to be made and otherwise preparing the Motion to Dismiss.

 

At the hearing the evidence will be presented to the court and the arguments made. The Judge may make their decision immediately or issue a written opinion. If a Judge decides to issue a written opinion, it is likely to take anywhere from 2-4 weeks, if not longer. Hopefully the decision will go your way. Regardless of the ultimate decision, getting to that point will likely cost several thousand dollars, a fair amount of time and a large amount of stress.

 

It should be noted that many different hypothetical situations have been discussed on the board regarding the AD. While many are an interesting exercise in “what if,” in reality none of us know how the courts are going to approach and interpret the law. As with any new legislation, it will take several years and more than a few “test cases” before any determinations or recommendations can be made with confidence.

 

Law Citations

 

http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/page/articles/caregivers/affirmative-defense

Edited June 24, 2012 by Croppled1

[GanjaWarrior]

I am sure most members are getting what they need from Dr Bob's posts. Those that do not wish to risk arrest have a clear path, those that are ok with a riskier path at least know what they are getting into.

 

i disagree...as has been noted time and time again..what i see people needing is a little less of "dr" bob