About Nine Bills Due For Vote Tomorrow In Lansing

[peanutbutter]

Why would LARA veer away from the path they have been on with this activity? When they see that you may have something on your record to disqualify you they send a letter. They could totally change what they have been doing, of course. Like any train could fly off the track at any moment. But we know where the tracks lead and the train usually stays on the tracks. Henny Penny said the sky was falling but we all knew the sky usually doesn't fall because no one has gotten a chunk of sky on their head yet. No guarantee, but the sky will, most likely, not fall. LARA will keep sending out letters when they decide your record is in question.

 

WHY would members of leo, the ones that hate us, veer from their usual path of insisting on full access to the registry?

 

Oh wait!! They get full access at the same time.

 

So why would those leo veer from the path they have been on for the last four years?

 

This isn't about what LARA might do. It's about how leo is going to enforce NEW laws that are in their favor.

[peanutbutter]

How about lets not speculate and spread fear and actually pick up a phone and ask them.

 

I know,... novel idea.

 

Yep .. call every leo in the state. Ask how they intend to enforce the NEW laws that are able to be used AGAINST caregivers.

 

Ask them if they intend to play nice. I'm sure every one will give you honest answers.

[CaveatLector]

HOW can you folks guarantee arrests will not start the moment these laws pass?

How can YOU guarantee arrests won't occur right now, before the law is passed? You cannot and neither can anyone else. As was indicated above you are fear mongering. A crime requires intent. If you're a cg and stripped of your rights via LARA you don't have intent until you have notice of your limitations and ignore those limitations. Do you get that?

 

Driving while license is suspended is also a crime. But you cannot be convicted of DWLS unless you had notice that your license was suspended. Get it? You need intent as an element to be convicted. A prosecutor is going to have a hard time proving intent when the state gave you zero notice that you were stripped of your cg status. Get it yet?

[Restorium2]

WHY would members of leo, the ones that hate us, veer from their usual path of insisting on full access to the registry?

 

Oh wait!! They get full access at the same time.

 

So why would those leo veer from the path they have been on for the last four years?

 

This isn't about what LARA might do. It's about how leo is going to enforce NEW laws that are in their favor.

Calm down, you are not making any sense.

 

Here's the whole deal in a nutshell;

 

LARA is the decider. They send you a letter if you have a suspected felony. That's what is happening now. I have proof of that. It could change. Anything could change. But that's the most likely thing that will happen because that's what they have been doing.

 

It doesn't get any clearer than that. Clarity is good.

[Fat Freddy]

The problem I have with all of this is they are implementing this before the changes pass?

It's all good if they are giving a warning and abiding by it. But are they circumventing the due process of law?

or have they decided to make Lara a rule making body without consulting the people the rules affect?

In my mind it seems that some of the caregivers should be granted lic under the grandfather clause.

If they were granted a caregivers lic from day one how can they now say they can not be a caregiver especially if they have not had any problems with leo??

[peanutbutter]

Let's be clear on this.

 

CPU is currently advocating for caregivers and patients to ignore the law until they are arrested.

 

The law that I refer to is the cluster of new laws being passed.

 

CPU doesn't want people to be aware of the fixes they need to make to stay our of jail.

[Restorium2]

The problem I have with all of this is they are implementing this before the changes pass?

It's all good if they are giving a warning and abiding by it. But are they circumventing the due process of law?

or have they decided to make Lara a rule making body without consulting the people the rules affect?

In my mind it seems that some of the caregivers should be granted lic under the grandfather clause.

If they were granted a caregivers lic from day one how can they now say they can not be a caregiver especially if they have not had any problems with leo??

Good point/question.

 

Here's some more clarity;

 

What is happening at LARA;

 

They have more time now so they are looking closer at the records. I was a caregiver for years before they finally sent me the letter about my record. Others I know had the same thing happen with their records. Some of us slid through the cracks for a few years and then they pulled the rug out. So we know what they do when you get suspected during the yearly cycle. A person would think that this would be the same process for others that are found suspect because of recent law changes. They are not already nailing caregivers for having non drug felonies like the proposed law says. They are just tightening up their act now because they have streamlined the process and have more time to mess with us. I can tell you for sure their is no grandfather clause. They will kick you out as fast as they can, 30 days is what they give you to straighten up your record, or be gone from caregiving.

[peanutbutter]

CPU needs to START to warn people BEFORE arrests start.

 

Telling people to ignore the risks is completely opposite of what CPU has claimed to stand for.

Edited September 22, 2012 by peanutbutter

[Restorium2]

Let's be clear on this.

 

CPU is currently advocating for caregivers and patients to ignore the law until they are arrested.

 

The law that I refer to is the cluster of new laws being passed.

 

CPU doesn't want people to be aware of the fixes they need to make to stay our of jail.

You are wacked peanutbutter. Get some better meds. CPU? Joe? LOL Wake up and smell the coffee.

[CaveatLector]

The problem I have with all of this is they are implementing this before the changes pass?

It's all good if they are giving a warning and abiding by it. But are they circumventing the due process of law?

or have they decided to make Lara a rule making body without consulting the people the rules affect?

In my mind it seems that some of the caregivers should be granted lic under the grandfather clause.

If they were granted a caregivers lic from day one how can they now say they can not be a caregiver especially if they have not had any problems with leo??

What grandfather clause? There isn't a grandfather clause.

 

While it is true that it may SEEM like a cg should fly through approval if they were approved once before that disregards some key issues. When the criminal history search is done it only reveals crimes that are abstracted to the database. Oftentimes crimes are not abstracted in a timely manner due to data entry problems and/or personnel oversight. Furthermore, how would LARA know that the cg had no felony drug crime prosecutions subsequent to the cg's last approval? They wouldn't know without first running a background. So if that background check reveals something that wasn't there before or wasn't picked up before then it may preclude a cg from being reissued.

[CaveatLector]

Let's be clear on this.

 

CPU is currently advocating for caregivers and patients to ignore the law until they are arrested.

 

The law that I refer to is the cluster of new laws being passed.

 

CPU doesn't want people to be aware of the fixes they need to make to stay our of jail.

Let's be even MORE clear on this. Just so we aren't libeling a particular group how about you cite your source for what CPU is advocating? Are you guessing their position or are you in the know?

[peanutbutter]

Let's be even MORE clear on this. Just so we aren't libeling a particular group how about you cite your source for what CPU is advocating? Are you guessing their position or are you in the know?

 

So name the group that is telling everyone to ignore the potential impact of these new laws.

 

Anyone gets arrested, you'll be happy to tell them they were idiots and deserve what they get.

 

NOW the very same people that would say that are here telling people to ignore the risks.

Edited September 22, 2012 by peanutbutter

[Restorium2]

What fixes are you proposing peanutbutter?

[Restorium2]

You said a group is trying to hide the fixes. Although I find that totally crazy, what are the fixes?

[CaveatLector]

So name the group that is telling everyone to ignore the potential impact of these new laws.

Cite your source for a group that has said for anyone to ignore anything. Cough it up. If you can't then you're nothing more than a gossipy schoolgirl. Cite your source!!! Put on your big boy pants and let's get down to brass tacks. I'm sick of the constant lies. Tell us where you heard this rubbish. Spit it out!

[Restorium2]

I don't know of any fixes at all. How do you fix a felony record in 30 days?

[peanutbutter]

I don't know of any fixes at all. How do you fix a felony record in 30 days?

 

Simple .. just do what leo has wanted all along.

 

Stop growing.

[Restorium2]

Simple .. just do what leo has wanted all along.

 

Stop growing.

Ah. So you want caregivers to just up and quit.

 

That is a choice.

 

Let them be fully aware that they should get the warning letter that others have gotten so they can make an informed choice, not out of fear.

 

We can leave it at that.

Edited September 22, 2012 by Restorium2

[Fat Freddy]

Simple .. just do what leo has wanted all along.

 

Stop growing.

 

I do not think it is a matter of growing, the intent behind this rule is to protect vulnerable patients from being abused by someone with low moral character.

It is not designed to prohibit anyone from growing for themselves.

[Fat Freddy]

random queries to the registry by leo while they are rolled up behind you will be the nail in every cardholders coffin. i dont believe for 1 minute that leo's actions will be policed if they access the database unlawfully due to "probable cause". once they confirm you have a card im 100% sure they will "smell" meds upon approaching your vehicle. going to be interesting to see actual DUID stats within the first year of the change to the law. the bottom line is drive a car and you will be going to jail period. dont forget that while they have you on the side of the road they will check to see if you're a gun owner, own a gun, go to jail. there is nothing in any of these bills that protect patients, every change is meant to put patients in jail, every single change!

 

I am in total agreement with you Q

leo should be limited to confirming that a card holders card is valid, the real problem as you have stated lays in the fact that once they find you are a card holder they can escort you to the hospital for a blood draw and guess what? even though you may have not medicated in the last 24 hrs they will find thc in your system and bingo you are up on DUID charges. Talk about scamming the public.... one heck of a way to increase revenue for cities and the state. Who ever thinks the gangsters are gone is mistaken, they became politicians and now legally rob us. I knew I should have gotten more involved in civics and government classes.

[peanutbutter]

I do not think it is a matter of growing, the intent behind this rule is to protect vulnerable patients from being abused by someone with low moral character.

It is not designed to prohibit anyone from growing for themselves.

 

I guess so.

 

If someone is a felon yet is still able to be a caregiver, they may be legal to, currently, have up to 72 plants.

 

After the new law passes they will only be able to have 12.

 

They will instantly be over their count.

 

If any leo is ticked off with such a person, how long would they wait to pounce?

Edited September 22, 2012 by peanutbutter

[Restorium2]

Do your sobriety test. Prove to the police car dash cam you were not impaired. That's how you win.

[CaveatLector]

Cite your source for a group that has said for anyone to ignore anything. Cough it up. If you can't then you're nothing more than a gossipy schoolgirl. Cite your source!!! Put on your big boy pants and let's get down to brass tacks. I'm sick of the constant lies. Tell us where you heard this rubbish. Spit it out!

Cat got your tongue???

[Fat Freddy]

the felon clause is to obvious, all they have to do is make felons of all of us and the program is done. all of this falls right into schuettes third reich "policing for profit" tactics. oh and say bye bye to ALL of your property too if you get pulled over and you have a card!

 

Atm the felon clause only affects caregivers. But it is not a far step to say a patient can not use if he/she has a felony...

in the end game I see state run pharmacies distributing meds at such a high cost coupled with a high tax enforced by leo busts on those who do not join the system...

[Fat Freddy]

Cat got your tongue???

 

Agreed! show me the proof of what you say. I have not held my words for others here nor will I hold them for you. SHOW ME or chill out.

Edited September 22, 2012 by Fat Freddy