About Nine Bills Due For Vote Tomorrow In Lansing

[Restorium2]

No it doesn't. Those letters are based on what the law says now.

 

NOT the conditions AFTER the new laws pass.

It would be the same condtitions. The new law changes would just include more offenders. The non drug felony offenders would get the letter.

Edited September 23, 2012 by Restorium2

[peanutbutter]

It would be the same condtitions. The new law changes would just include more offenders. The non drug felony offenders would get the letter.

 

And what about the outdoor grow being "visible?"

 

Another 30 day letter from LARA or a warrant?

Edited September 23, 2012 by peanutbutter

[shishka]

If you're growing outside shouldn't you already have your attorney fund ready?

[peanutbutter]

If you're growing outside shouldn't you already have your attorney fund ready?

 

Yeah .. people should already know they shouldn't grow outdoors. Doesn't matter what the Supreme Court says.

[+Malamute]

Well, first of all, the bills must be read 3 times on the Senate floor before the fiinal vote. Then since they were amended int he Senate, 4834/4851 must go back to the House now. So the bills won't go into effect on Tuesday pb. They may read it ont he Senate floor, but that is unlikely on Tuesday. There are only 3 session dates between now and the election, Sept 25/27th and October 17th. The soonest the Senate will or even can pass these bills is likely October 17th. Then it goes back to the house to be passed during the lame duck session post election. So generally the soonest you will see this passed is November sometime(post thanksgiving), i would venture to say even December possibly.

 

How many people are growing outdoors, where it can be seen in December?

 

Yea.

 

I agree that the new laws may cause some issues, so, instead of freaking out, how about lets try to get something worked out so LARA will notify ineligible caregivers right away or possibly get a grace period added.

 

To even suggest anyone here wants people to get busted is silly. Your over the top rhetoric is not helpful. Of course we will need to inform everyone. Kinda a no brainer eh? Lets create solutions, not hysteria.

[peanutbutter]

Well, first of all, the bills must be read 3 times on the Senate floor before the fiinal vote. Then since they were amended int he Senate, 4834/4851 must go back to the House now. So the bills won't go into effect on Tuesday pb. They may read it ont he Senate floor, but that is unlikely on Tuesday. There are only 3 session dates between now and the election, Sept 25/27th and October 17th. The soonest the Senate will or even can pass these bills is likely October 17th. Then it goes back to the house to be passed during the lame duck session post election. So generally the soonest you will see this passed is November sometime(post thanksgiving), i would venture to say even December possibly.

 

How many people are growing outdoors, where it can be seen in December?

 

Yea.

 

I agree that the new laws may cause some issues, so, instead of freaking out, how about lets try to get something worked out so LARA will notify ineligible caregivers right away or possibly get a grace period added.

 

To even suggest anyone here wants people to get busted is silly. Your over the top rhetoric is not helpful. Of course we will need to inform everyone. Kinda a no brainer eh? Lets create solutions, not hysteria.

 

Ignoring the law is a good way to get arrested.

 

Thank you for clearing up the time frame for me. A grace period would be a very very good thing.

 

Such a grace period is NOT in place at this time. Rick Jones made a point that these laws should be effective immediately.

 

Written notice to those impacted is not required at this time. That SHOULD be in place, but is not.

 

So the time frame is during the lame duck session. After the election.

 

GOOD a little more time to make adjustments for the sake of the new requirements.

 

If people are not going to make an active stand against these laws, then our community needs to be ready for the changes.

Edited September 23, 2012 by peanutbutter

[Restorium2]

And what about the outdoor grow being "visible?"

 

Another 30 day letter from LARA or a warrant?

Are there really any visable outdoor grows?

Ignoring the law is a good way to get arrested.

 

Thank you for clearing up the time frame for me. A grace period would be a very very good thing.

 

Such a grace period is NOT in place at this time. Rick Jones made a point that these laws should be effective immediately.

 

Written notice to those impacted is not required at this time. That SHOULD be in place, but is not.

 

So the time frame is during the lame duck session. After the election.

 

GOOD a little more time to make adjustments for the sake of the new requirements.

You didn't see my letter that gave me a 30 day grace period? Slip on the bifocals and take a look, peanutbutter. What part of it didn't you understand. I would like to help you with your hysteria problem.

[peanutbutter]

Are there really any visable outdoor grows?

 

You didn't see my letter that gave me a 30 day grace period? Slip on the bifocals and take a look, peanutbutter. What part of it didn't you understand. I would like to help you with your hysteria problem.

 

I clearly understood. Those warnings were about the existing system. Not the system that will be in place the moment the new laws pass.

 

In addition, those letters you talk about were about how LARA responds. NOT about how law enforcement responds.

 

There are many people in the state that leo is well aware of being caregivers. Leo has ran the LEIN system on those people and know already which have felony convictions.

 

Leo already knows who will be illegal. They don't need to be told by LARA. A warning with a time to fix it will depend on the good graces of the leo involved.

Edited September 23, 2012 by peanutbutter

[Restorium2]

I clearly understood. Those warnings were about the existing system. Not the system that will be in place the moment the new laws pass.

 

In addition, those letters you talk about were about how LARA responds. NOT about how law enforcement responds.

 

There are many people in the state that leo is well aware of being caregivers. Leo has ran the LEIN system on those people and know already which have felony convictions.

 

Leo already knows who will be illegal. They don't need to be told by LARA. A warning with a time to fix it will depend on the good graces of the leo involved.

I disagree. It's the very same system. Just more potential rejects that would be handled the same as they have been handling them.

[peanutbutter]

I disagree. It's the very same system. Just more potential rejects that would be handled the same as they have been handling them.

 

You have a fully functioning crystal ball? That is tested to be 100% accurate?

[SFC]

PB, why are you so darn negative man? You are going to be banned as being a CG no matter what anyway why fear monger the hell out of everyone else. KD if we get our way and at this point it is still "If" you should be A-ok.

[Restorium2]

You have a fully functioning crystal ball? That is tested to be 100% accurate?

You think they are going to treat other felons WORSE than drug felons? There's no logic in that at all. Absolutely baseless.

 

I have shown you what they do if you are thought to be a drug felon. With that in mind, everyone needs to make their own decisions how to procede. Can we leave it at that so this thread has some value, peanutbutter?

 

You made your point that you think they will come slamming down on new felons worse than they have with drug felons.

 

I made my point that they will treat other felons like they have been doing with drug felons and I posted the letter we already get from LARA.

Edited September 23, 2012 by Restorium2

[GanjaWarrior]

who in the f made anyone on this site or anyone in Lansing the person to telling my sick mother who is her caregiver...its funny how fast they ( i mean the people on this site not lansing) will throw sections of us under the bus....the agenda is to divide jmo.... throw em under the bus your next .

[+Malamute]

Ignoring the law is a good way to get arrested.

 

Thank you for clearing up the time frame for me. A grace period would be a very very good thing.

 

Such a grace period is NOT in place at this time. Rick Jones made a point that these laws should be effective immediately.

 

Written notice to those impacted is not required at this time. That SHOULD be in place, but is not.

 

So the time frame is during the lame duck session. After the election.

 

GOOD a little more time to make adjustments for the sake of the new requirements.

 

If people are not going to make an active stand against these laws, then our community needs to be ready for the changes.

 

Of course.

 

The problem is, there is no way for us as a community to reach all the caregivers who may get their privileges taken away. The only people with a full list of caregivers is the "department".

 

Possibly requesting letters be sent to all caregivers notifying them of the law change. Better would be they do a full prescreen of the caregivers so they can notify them immediately when the law passes. Also we could request a non immediate effect vote thus giving people and the department around 90+ days to get everything in line. Also, there is the issue of whether the bills actually go to the governors desk or not. I have heard every angle on that discussion, but lets just say it does go to the governor, we can request the governor not sign it for the 14 days he is allowed to consider signing it thus giving 2 weeks for notification by the department. Theres several other possibilities. Willing to hear suggestions.

 

I mean, we oppose this crapola 100%, but we need to hope for the best(bills die) and prepare for the worst(bills pass). As pb has said, this is an issue. A little over the top when discussed, but it is an issue we should attempt to resolve.

 

Solutions, not hysteria.

 

So how many people will this felon issue effect? We can look at in general terms using known percentages.

 

Approximately 6.21% of the population are currently felons. There are currently around 30,000 caregivers i do believe. So, multiply those numbers together and we get 1863 possible people. If we remove the chance of those caregivers being drug felons (39%) that number drops to 1136. Then you subtract the percentage of felons currently imprisoned since obviously they will not be caregivers (2.5%) and you have 1107. So, in basics i would say this law if passed in the Senate version banning all felons COULD effect as many as 900-1200 current caregivers. demographics and other issues could raise or lower that number, but lets say that effects 1000ish people or so.

 

Now what if we are able to get a ten year sunset clause added to the law for felons. Most felonies occur when a person is age 16-35. Looking at recidivism rates and death rate after ages 35 would lead me to believe that about 65% of those felony caregivers(1000+) would not lose their caregiver ability. So that number drops to about 350 current caregivers being effected if a sunset clause is added.

 

But, what that would open up is drug felons(likely popular in our community...ahem) being able to become cg's via a sunset clause. If going by the previous percentages on amount of drug felons divided by current cg's and other parameters, around 2,000-8,000+ NEW caregivers could be eligible with a sunset clause because of drug felonies. Current patients who are drug felons plus others.

 

So ... i dunno.

 

Just interesting.

[SFC]

Yea, whatever Ganja. What is your solution? Lets see how grounded in reality you are..

[Restorium2]

Good points Mal.

 

There is one more angle on this that will potentially effect even more caregivers than your numbers show.

 

When I got the drug felon letter I wasn't really a drug felon. It was a mistake on my record where a drug offense didn't specifically say it was a misdemeanor. So if you have any offenses at all that don't say misdemeanor, then LARA may want you to clear that up. Until you do clear it up you are considered a felon and not eligible to be a caregiver. This could potentially reach a lot more caregivers. If you want to see if this would effect you then you will need to get a copy of your record from IChat. We can do a lot of good here if we keep it calm and make well thought out moves.

[+Malamute]

A sunset clause would be great.

[Restorium2]

A sunset clause would be great.

Definitely. They went back to 1981 to find my misdemeanor that didn't say it was a misdemeanor. They really dig.

[phaquetoo]

CPU needs to START to warn people BEFORE arrests start.

 

Telling people to ignore the risks is completely opposite of what CPU has claimed to stand for.

 

I am 85% pos that cpu is not doing as you say, In fact at this time, I think they are the only ones that are going about this in the right manner!

 

Peace

Jim

[Hydraulic Jack]

^ what he said.....HJ

[Fat Freddy]

If I may offer logic for the sunset clause...

 

Say they give us a no felonies within the past 10 or 15 years.

It would free up staff for other duties.

It would re enforce the basic principal of justice. Why punish someone for something they did 10 years or 15 years ago again???

It would make a statement that there are rewards for staying crime free. Some people feel disenfranchised and disadvantaged which lends to the attitude why change?

If a person is steadfast in the criminal life style nothing even this amendment is not going to detour them from continuing criminal behavior. A look at ones criminal record will reval weather one is a career criminal or not. Simple stuff here enh?

 

In closing I say a sunset clause is a good thing. I remain open minded and would like to entertain reasons for not having a sunset clause.

[Restorium2]

The main reason is that they will not buy into it. The sunset clause is a total long shot. Maybe someday when we have some more reps on our side. Right now, we just better make sure we all get the warning letters. LARA can clear this up for us easily.

[Fat Freddy]

In all respect warning letters are a good move toward better relations with leo and the community at large.

But the reality is that LARA does not have the power to make any rules under sec 4 of our law. Don't believe me? read it for your self with an open mind.

The amendments are not LAW and LARA has no backing atm to do what it is doing. They are taking it as a given that these amendments will not be changed again.

If behind closed doors an agreement has been reached to make these rules under the guise of helping us... Just goes to show that no matter what we say they are going to do what they want to. I really do appreciate they are showing some possible consideration for patients and caregivers, But why not toss a bone besides using rules to make themselves look like they are helping us? Pifffft, They need to just be more up front and grow a pair and tell us we are going to pass these amendments and here is how we intend to minimize to impact on the patients and caregivers?? Why do these people feel that they need to hide their actions and motives from us?

 

The bottom line is we live in a dictatorship! Welcome to the machine!!!!

Edited September 23, 2012 by Fat Freddy

[SFC]

Actually Resto it is much more likely to happen than I would have ever imagined just a few months ago. A certain Mangy Dog that frequents this site wrote up some killer amendment language that when Jones upped the ante to all felons put 4851 in danger of not passing the house again. Of course we would all like to see that happen but fact is the dems and house Republicans do want to see these bills pass. That ten year sunset is the compromise that even great satan Jones has agreed upon in principle. Lets not celebrate it just yet, but this is real.

[Fat Freddy]

Actually Resto it is much more likely to happen than I would have ever imagined just a few months ago. A certain Mangy Dog that frequents this site wrote up some killer amendment language that when Jones upped the ante to all felons put 4851 in danger of not passing the house again. Of course we would all like to see that happen but fact is the dems and house Republicans do want to see these bills pass. That ten year sunset is the compromise that even great satan Jones has agreed upon in principle. Lets not celebrate it just yet, but this is real.

 

It would be a great victory if they did add the sunset clause. Not just for caregivers and patients but also for our states leadership.

They could count on support for other issues and re election!! Because it will show that they are listening and do care about the people and their families.