Logic And Common Sense?

[t-pain]

more forms:

http://www.michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/ccs_files/downloads/ModelMOTIONTODISMISS.pdf

[Fat Freddy]

It's weird. The lawyer dismissed me as if I were the villiage idiot, yet claims to be on my side. He knows nothing about defending a MM case, yet had just about no questions for me.

 

Also, he escaped before I could get copies of the discovery, which I really wanted, badly. He also made it clear that I was not to contact him at all. I would see him next at the prelim.

 

Fire that tool asap, he does not have your best interests at heart. He is looking to plea bargain your rights away!

Remind him of the consequences of * Ineffective assistance of counsel * Because it is his job to represent your best interests.

I am sure someone here can quote the standard of effective assistance of counsel.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Fat Freddy

[Herb Cannabis]

Try this: http://www.ehow.com/how_8489521_write-motion-dismiss-michigan.html

[AmishRnot4ganja]

Fire that tool asap, he does not have your best interests at heart. He is looking to plea bargain your rights away!

Remind him of the consequences of * Ineffective assistance of counsel * Because it is his job to represent your best interests.

I am sure someone here can quote the standard of effective assistance of counsel.

 

 

God, that lawyer is being so blatantly dismissive of Joel and his predicament! It is quite apparent that he has no real interest in the case. Joel, the first thing to do in this situation, and I believe you are doing it, is to document everything that occurs - date, time and names. Keep a detailed record of everything. I don't know legal procedures, but I do know that the aim of our legal system (ostensibly) is to prevent innocent people from being railroaded. File complaints against your lawyer (if things can't be worked out with him) with whatever system is in place to do such things. They really want you to just rollover and "take your medicine" even if the medicine isn't justified - it is a whole lot easier and cheaper that way.

[Herb Cannabis]

Hi Joel,

 

How are you doing tonight? I was just thinking about you is all.

[Joel]

Just got off the phone with the attorney. I can't believe his attitude. No time to talk with me. All I wanted to know was whether he was up on the law and had done some research.

 

I brought up the section 8 defense and he had no clue of what I was talking about, and proceeded to tell me that he was the attorney here, and what I did on my own time did not concern him, nor did he want to hear anything I wanted to say.

 

I told him that having an adversarial relationship with my own lawyer would not get me anywhere, he agreed and again told me he had no time for my input. He stated that the law was clear and basically said I was guilty, but that he may have a strategy. He then mentioned MSC v King, and I again asked about section 8. He again did not know what I was talking about.

 

I am going to prison.

[Restorium2]

If you can get a word in edgewise, tell him to google section 8 defense. That should turn on the old light bulb.

[Fat Freddy]

Just got off the phone with the attorney. I can't believe his attitude. No time to talk with me. All I wanted to know was whether he was up on the law and had done some research.

 

I brought up the section 8 defense and he had no clue of what I was talking about, and proceeded to tell me that he was the attorney here, and what I did on my own time did not concern him, nor did he want to hear anything I wanted to say.

 

I told him that having an adversarial relationship with my own lawyer would not get me anywhere, he agreed and again told me he had no time for my input. He stated that the law was clear and basically said I was guilty, but that he may have a strategy. He then mentioned MSC v King, and I again asked about section 8. He again did not know what I was talking about.

 

I am going to prison.

 

 

No, fire that dummy right in court in front of the judge, Explain that you feel he does not have your best interests at heart and is not well versed in the law concerning medical marijuana. And request a postponement of proceedings in order to allow you to find an attorney that is better versed in the law.

[trix]

I still think you need a better lawyer, BUT you never know lawyers get into a zone, kinda like a pro baseball pitcher before a game, they have their plan set in theri head already, and know what to expect when things pop up, like I said before you CAN fire yuour lawyer and get a postponment,.

 

Quick story about a lawyer my family just dealt with not MM related but is pertain to your poor communications with your current lawyer, "my younger brother ran a red light well yellow, Tboned a car.. got papers he was being sued, For 3 months he called least 1 time a week just to talk to him and see what has happened motions new records all that he said STOP CALLING, LET ME DO MY JOB, moving forward to last week, My bro still had not heard a word from him, he paid $750 for this lawyer cheap in my eyes.. Didn't hear ANYTHING not even a mailed peice of paper about his case.. went to court yesterday and everything was dismissed, he the lawyer came out of the Judges chambers and said wow didn't expect that, lets go"

 

anyways, I'm just saying, every lawyer has a relationship with the Judge weather it be simple respect shown or possible on personal level, in your case your lawyer imo would fall into the catagory of personal relationship, due to being court appointed they see each other quite a but, he doesnt wanna tinkle the judge the he works with off imo again, if he your lawyer is telling you your going to prison, think of yoursaelf and family and freaking fire him before its to late.. don't wave the PRELIM!

 

please excuse my grammer and typing, I broken my right hand and wrist, so For the next few eeks I may write like a 3rd graded,..

 

Joel did you have your pr trail in City court yet? also as someone stated above has you spoken with the ACLU?

 

Trix

 

I get chills forreal cause what you have been saying sounds so

[trix]

Also just to through this in their cause it is a personal experince, the more work this court appointed lawyer does, motions and whatnot, once you fire him... you know have a leg to stand on when seeking a new lawyer cause you already have done most the work.. by going through court already and you know have court douments in your possession that u can just lay out on the table and hopefully a REAL trial lawyer can flip through what u already have and say hey they is hard or easy and give you a price from that point, on a retainer.. the more leg work you do on your own the better off yiu are, also it will help give yourself peice of mind when you read what they have on paper about your case already

[Fat Freddy]

Also just to through this in their cause it is a personal experince, the more work this court appointed lawyer does, motions and whatnot, once you fire him... you know have a leg to stand on when seeking a new lawyer cause you already have done most the work.. by going through court already and you know have court douments in your possession that u can just lay out on the table and hopefully a REAL trial lawyer can flip through what u already have and say hey they is hard or easy and give you a price from that point, on a retainer.. the more leg work you do on your own the better off yiu are, also it will help give yourself peice of mind when you read what they have on paper about your case already

 

I agree wholeheartedly, the more you know the less bs can be slipped by you.

Some may have noted that I have a pessimistic side, this is true. My hope is it will serve to motivate others to educate themselves in order to aid in setting forth a defence if needed.

So please do not become distraught, reach deep down inside and find that determination that exceeds the understanding of common man and go forth.

[trix]

Thanks Trix.

 

I feel like I'm right back to my very first post starting this topic.

 

I will go to the prelim on Oct 10th and see what my lawyer will do, then I will delay as much as I can before I "do the right thing". Simple common sense.

 

I am aware it must sound crazy, but considering the pain I am in, and what getting a "real MM lawyer" would cost, I am left with little choice.

 

There is no way, none, that I will saddle my family with that kind of debt. If I am gone, so are the charges. Nuff said.

 

Well its the 11th Joel, how did court go.. you have been in my thoughts as of late... so whats the word did it get kicked up to circuit court? if so what Judge and all that..

 

Really hope you are in good sprits today, awaiting your response..

 

trix

[Joel]

Sorry it took so long to get back to you all. I have been ill and really shouldn't even be out of bed.

 

Yes, I did go to court. The lawyer wasn't there yet. I waited while everyone else there went in front of the judge. Still no lawyer. He finally showed up an hour and a half late.

 

He then spoke with the prosecutor and then said we needed to postpone as he thought we were there for a conference, which he was prepared for, and not the hearing, for which he was not.

 

The bottom line is the hearing was postponed until the 27th of October.

 

My 26 year old son was with me. On the way out, he tried to ask the lawyer a question. He was asked, very rudely I might add, who he was, and was told to basically shut up and mind his own business. Kind of like what he said to me when I had a question for him.

 

My son was incensed, and I could tell he wanted to beat the crap out of him. Instead, he asked him why he was acting like an A-ss, and was ignored while the attorney just left him standing there as he left the building.

 

I get that an attorney can "get in the zone". I just think that there is no excuse for being so rude. He may indeed have an "in" with the judge, I don't like her either. BTW, when you go to vote, just for your information, Judge Brenda Johnson, running for the Michigan Supreme Court, is very anti marijuana. Medical or otherwise. I highly recommend you NOT vote for her.

 

I will wait to see what happens later this month. The attorney says they may dismiss.

 

I looked at the section 8 motion and noticed that it requests a dismissal "with prejudice". Doesn't that mean they (district court) can refile the complaint? From my understanding only a dismissal without prejudice can invoke double jepordy. I realize that the feds can still file, even with that kind of dismissal, but not district court. Maybe one of you lawyer types can help explain that to us.

Edited October 12, 2012 by Joel

[t-pain]

there is a Shelia Johnson running for mich supreme court.

couldnt find anything about a brenda johnson...

 

http://thevoterguide.mlive.com/race-detail.do?id=11234109

[peanutbutter]

I looked at the section 8 motion and noticed that it requests a dismissal "with prejudice". Doesn't that mean they (district court) can refile the complaint? From my understanding only a dismissal without prejudice can invoke double jepordy. I realize that the feds can still file, even with that kind of dismissal, but not district court. Maybe one of you lawyer types can help explain that to us.

 

With prejudice means that it was fully decided. Guilty or not.

Without means there was no direct findings and may be tried again later.

Edited October 12, 2012 by peanutbutter

[Herb Cannabis]

Really glad to hear from you Joel!

 

Your lawyer sucks, is he court appointed? He can still be fired.

 

Are you sure about that name running for MSC?

 

This saturday (Oct 13, 2012), at the Ferris State Bulldogs Home Coming, there will be 3 ladies (One who is a Johnson) running for MSC and I believe that we will be able to ask questions of them. I will find out for sure and post the details later this evening for anyone interested.

[Celliach]

Are you relying on a public defender? If so, you need to get a real lawyer. One that works for you.

[CaveatLector]

With prejudice means that it was fully decided. Guilty or not.

Without means there was no direct findings and may be tried again later.

Hmmm, not really. A dismissal with prejudice is not an adjudication of guilt or innocence. It has the same effect as a not guilty verdict in that it prevents retrying the case.

 

Joel, if your section 8 motion is being brought at the preliminary examination then, if you prevail on the motion, the case will not likely be dismissed with prejudice regardless of what relief is asked in the motion. Michigan court rules require that a case be dismissed without prejudice if the state cannot meet its burden at prelim. In other words, if the state can come up with more evidence that wasn't previously avalable then they can refile. However, from the facts of your case, a dismissal without prejudice would likely have the same result as a dismissal with prejudice. In other words, there isn't likely MORE evidence that can be brought that would change the nature of the case such that it could then be refiled. What it boils down to is don't worry. If it gets dismissed, even without prejudice, then you likely won't ever hear another word from the prosecutor.

 

As for double jeopardy, jeopardy doesn't attach until a jury is sworn. So a case can generally be brought again even if it was dismissed, unless it was dismissed after the jury was sworn.

[CaveatLector]

Unless the judge makes a mistake in his interpretation of the law:

 

http://publicdocs.co..._302795.OPN.PDF

Yes, there are exceptions which is why I wrote "generally." It is a general rule subject to exceptions.

[Joel]

Sorry about that. It is Shelia Johnson, not Brenda Johnson.

 

Thanks for the info on the prejudice thing. I think I get it now.

Edited October 13, 2012 by Joel

[Joel]

Ok. Think on this.

 

The enclosed locked facility is locked against whom?

 

Anyone who is neither the caregiver nor a qualified patient.

 

If you are alone in the house, there should be no need to keep the plants inside the enclosure. It seems to me the writers of the law, realizing they could not forsee all reasons to take the plants out of the enclosure, left those exclusions out entirely, knowing that the wording allowed removal of the plants anytime there was noone present that did not fit the qualifications of being either a caregiver or a qualifying patient.

 

Is that too vague?

[Timmahh]

no, that seems to me like the common and general meaning that the MSC Ruled Must be given each case so long as the charged is actually at the minimum, an authorized Pt. no Dr Rec, no authorization, no section 4/8 protection availabilities. But alas, that is my interpretation.

[peanutbutter]

Ok. Think on this.

 

The enclosed locked facility is locked against whom?

 

Anyone who is neither the caregiver nor a qualified patient.

 

If you are alone in the house, there should be no need to keep the plants inside the enclosure. It seems to me the writers of the law, realizing they could not forsee all reasons to take the plants out of the enclosure, left those exclusions out entirely, knowing that the wording allowed removal of the plants anytime there was noone present that did not fit the qualifications of being either a caregiver or a qualifying patient.

 

Is that too vague?

 

The "locked enclosed facility" isn't required to be locked. It is only required to be equipped with locks.Obviously someone has to open the door from time to time to tend the plants.

 

It is not required to be constantly locked. If that were the case all the plants would quickly die.

Edited October 13, 2012 by peanutbutter

[Joel]

Nice. You are almost there, old friend.

 

It is the word "kept", that I am leading up to.

 

The plants need be "kept" in the enclosure only when a person (or people) who is (are) not authorized to access the plants, is around.

 

When you are alone (or with a qualifying patient), you may remove the plants to your dining room table for pruning, out to your deck for spraying, or anywhere else where you are not violating the underlying condition that the plants may be accessed by an un-authorized person.

 

This is what the framers of the law intended by wording section 7 the way they did.

Edited October 13, 2012 by Joel

[peanutbutter]

"Or other .."