Question For Folks Against Gun Control Laws

[cristinew]

What punishment do you want for gun owners? Prison? just remember when they get out the can take a truck and run down and kill just as many people,,

[cristinew]

How is your ban on drugs doing?

[cristinew]

guns are illegal in Mexico how is that working for you?

[cristinew]

Your hypo is apples/oranges. Let's take it one step further. What if boy #1 punched boy #2? Well you aren't going to punch him back as punishment but you will hopefully mete out punishment that is likely to reduce the likelihood of recidivism. In this case maybe making him sit out the next couple trips will do that? The weapon of choice wasn't an issue because you cannot take away his fist.

 

Now let's substitute bb gun for fist. You think taking away the bb gun will change the behavior? I don't. Why? Because it is an issue with violence or the tendencies of the perpetrator. If the perpetrator can't use a bb gun to abuse someone because it is taken away then do you think he just gives up? Or does he then use his fist? That is the crux of the issue. The question becomes will taking away one single means of committing a violent act tend to quell violence? Or does it make crazies more industrious? Do they then scheme to invent new ways to do even more damage? A bomb? Using a motor vehicle? Posion?

 

I think the fallacy in your argument is that mentally ill people won't put enough thought into their rampage to dream up a different way to cause mass destruction if they don't have a gun readily available. Recall, if you will, the amount of planning put in at the Columbine shootings. Look at the Bath School Disaster. Look at Oklahoma City. Crazy people are willing to plan.

 

I think we can all agree that no one knows the likelihood or rate by which someone will defer to an alternate, more deadly, means of destruction if a gun isn't available. But what we DO know is that an event like Oklahoma City would have likely been less deadly had McVeigh instead chosen to storm the federal building with an assault rifle. One thing is certain, the likelihood of him being taken down before he caused as much death as the bomb did is probably pretty high.

 

People will evolve to adapt. Cancer can be shut down by chemo. However, many times the same cancer learns how to defeat the chemo that previously defeated it and you're back to a malignant tumor. Don't have access to a bomb? Use an airplane. Can't get a gun on a plane to hijack it? Figure out what you CAN get on there. Adaptation is nothing new.

 

With all that said, I am middle-of-the-road on gun control. Do I think handguns should be banned? No. Assault weapons? Probably.

 

thank you

[GregS]

The British Parliament took extensive gun control measures, up to and including disarming the general population and the commonplace police officer on the street.. Since WW2 Japan has been subject to extensive firearm laws. Would any gun advocates here please compare statistics between this and those two countries and get back to us please? Won't you please blow hot air about why we also need to acquire RPG rounds and launchers, Hellfire missles, and tactical nuclear weapons? Is there a field mortar in your future, or do you already own one?

 

I will not be surprised to see stiffer penalties than now exist for drugs. Maybe several months to a few years for possession of any unregistered firearm, to several years for possession of of a small capacity sidearm or sporting arm in the commission of a felony, twenty to fifty for possessing high capacity high powered arms, and life for the use of one of those weapons in commission of a felony.

 

I do not advocate that we should relinquish our common firearms. Those with no other purpose than to kill as many people as possible in the most efficient manner will be diminished.

Edited December 23, 2012 by GregS

[cristinew]

And how are you going to fund all the Prisons? Cut Mental Health and Schools?

[cristinew]

To those of you who do not wish to own guns, rhat is your right and I respect that. You have nothing to fear from me or the guns in my home so please respect the constitution and my right to own them.

[cristinew]

Great Britain is reeling with shock over a recent spree of killings in which 12 people were shot dead and 25 injured by a gunman who chose his targets at random as he drove by them in a car. Taxi driver Derrick Bird, 52 started off his bloody spree by killing a fellow taxi driver before he went out on a murderous drive looking for victims. BBC News reports as follows on the killings that have shocked Great Britain.

Read more at http://www.indyposted.com/25464/britain-shocked-by-mass-shooting-rampage/#QUWsWhH2ZeMKwKcu.99

[GregS]

A well regulated militia being neccesary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

 

To what well regulated militia does anyone here belong?

[GregS]

Great Britain is reeling with shock over a recent spree of killings in which 12 people were shot dead and 25 injured by a gunman who chose his targets at random as he drove by them in a car. Taxi driver Derrick Bird, 52 started off his bloody spree by killing a fellow taxi driver before he went out on a murderous drive looking for victims. BBC News reportsas follows on the killings that have shocked Great Britain.

Read more at http://www.indyposte...WhH2ZeMKwKcu.99

 

Let's try this again. I asked for statistics. Not an isolated event or events, but long term hard numbers. This is a stupid and silly response.

 

It is when people run out of cogent arguments that they resort to logical fallacies in the interest of rhetoric that does not address truth. I invite you to find yours, and will see if you will insist on continuing with them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

[+washtenaut]

Your hypo is apples/oranges. Let's take it one step further. What if boy #1 punched boy #2? Well you aren't going to punch him back as punishment but you will hopefully mete out punishment that is likely to reduce the likelihood of recidivism. In this case maybe making him sit out the next couple trips will do that? The weapon of choice wasn't an issue because you cannot take away his fist.

 

Now let's substitute bb gun for fist. You think taking away the bb gun will change the behavior? I don't. Why? Because it is an issue with violence or the tendencies of the perpetrator. If the perpetrator can't use a bb gun to abuse someone because it is taken away then do you think he just gives up? Or does he then use his fist? That is the crux of the issue. The question becomes will taking away one single means of committing a violent act tend to quell violence? Or does it make crazies more industrious? Do they then scheme to invent new ways to do even more damage? A bomb? Using a motor vehicle? Posion?

 

I think the fallacy in your argument is that mentally ill people won't put enough thought into their rampage to dream up a different way to cause mass destruction if they don't have a gun readily available. Recall, if you will, the amount of planning put in at the Columbine shootings. Look at the Bath School Disaster. Look at Oklahoma City. Crazy people are willing to plan.

 

I think we can all agree that no one knows the likelihood or rate by which someone will defer to an alternate, more deadly, means of destruction if a gun isn't available. But what we DO know is that an event like Oklahoma City would have likely been less deadly had McVeigh instead chosen to storm the federal building with an assault rifle. One thing is certain, the likelihood of him being taken down before he caused as much death as the bomb did is probably pretty high.

 

People will evolve to adapt. Cancer can be shut down by chemo. However, many times the same cancer learns how to defeat the chemo that previously defeated it and you're back to a malignant tumor. Don't have access to a bomb? Use an airplane. Can't get a gun on a plane to hijack it? Figure out what you CAN get on there. Adaptation is nothing new.

 

With all that said, I am middle-of-the-road on gun control. Do I think handguns should be banned? No. Assault weapons? Probably.

 

Wow Cav. Are you under the weather today? You seem off your game with these arguments. I hope you are feeling better soon.

[knucklehead bob]

Assault : an intentional act by one person that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent harmful or offensive contact.

 

 

Weapon : something (as a club, knife, or gun) used to injure, defeat, or destroy

 

: a means of contending against another

 

Semantics

• 
  semantics plural of se·man·tics (Noun)
  Noun
  The branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning.
  The meaning of a word, phrase, sentence, or text: "such quibbling over semantics may seem petty stuff".
  

 

 

 

 

You people be sure to be careful with your assault weapons when you are driving home , and be very careful with your assault weapons when you are eating your X-mas dinner .

Edited December 23, 2012 by knucklehead bob

[cristinew]

I wonder if the Guy used a truck to kill 20 kids in a playground they would be wanting to ban trucks and cars,,??

[peanutbutter]

Prescription-Drug-Induced Violence Medicine's Best Kept Secret?

 

http://www.activistpost.com/2012/12/prescription-drug-induced-violence.html

 

“Violence and other potentially criminal behavior caused by prescription drugs are medicine’s best kept secret,” says Dr. David Healy, a world-renowned psychiatrist who has written extensively about the lack of data in evidence-based medicine, including in his latest book, Pharmageddon.

 

Healy says this is a global issue, with medical, legal, ethical, and profound public policy dimensions. “Never before in the fields of medicine and law have there been so many events with so much concealed data and so little focused expertise.”

 

Can prescription drugs cause you to kill someone? “Absolutely”, says Healy.

 

Most of these mass shooting cases were conducted by those that had been on anti depressants.

[Restorium2]

I wonder if the Guy used a truck to kill 20 kids in a playground they would be wanting to ban trucks and cars,,??

Actually, it's fairly easy to stop a truck from driving onto a play ground. They have these cement road dividers they put in place so you can't. Ever see them at the courthouses? We would need to be a little more high tech for guns. I think bulletproof doors with remote locking systems would be the way to go. I helped to build a boy's home for the state and we used this method for lock down. You have a trusted security guard watch the cameras and they have the lock down button right there in front of them. I'm really surprised they don't have this at schools. I guess they don't because they are using every penny on teaching. We will need to shift the focus a little. No one will be able to concentrate and learn if they are scared.

[cristinew]

A well regulated militia being neccesary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

 

To what well regulated militia does anyone here belong?

 

 

 

STATE CONSTITUTION (EXCERPT)

CONSTITUTION OF MICHIGAN OF 1963

 

 

§ 6 Bearing of arms.

Sec. 6.

Every person has a right to keep and bear arms for the defense of himself and the state

[cristinew]

no none of the play grounds do in my area and what about the crossing guards where they cross the street?? Rest your logic is ill,,

[cristinew]

focus on the drugs the drs give the nut cases not my right to defend my home,,

[cristinew]

Actually, it's fairly easy to stop a truck from driving onto a play ground.

 

NO

[cristinew]

Greg Rest and Wash if you do not like the Michigan Constitution and the USA just leave

[Restorium2]

Greg Rest and Wash if you do not like the Michigan Constitution and the USA just leave

Who was he defending? His weapons weren't for defense of himself or state. You are reaching ...... You don't need to shoot 100's of rounds a minute to defend your home until the cops arrive. Everything in the proper context, including the constitution.

[cristinew]

My brother fought in combat Vietnam for the right for you and me to bear arms Like it or leave

[Restorium2]

no none of the play grounds do in my area and what about the crossing guards where they cross the street?? Rest your logic is ill,,

Then you didn't really read my post did you? Take a breath and read. Use your head.

[cristinew]

average time for a 911 call 24 minutes do not infringe on my rights i do not yours,,,, Move to China

[+washtenaut]

Cristine, are you out of meds or what girl?

 

You are posting every couple of minutes, making little sense, and you are repeating yourself often.

 

Consider this advice:

 

Go ingest something or repeat your mantra slowly to calm down so you can discuss the issue rationally.

 

Also, try to remember, there is NO ONE HERE advocating the removal of all guns, especially home defense guns. No one.