Question For Folks Against Gun Control Laws

[mrd]

Your a joke! I know lets add a fool tax on you.

 

Yep I 'm a joke except when I was a child hand guns were rare and people didn't shoot people very often when they were robbing them. Also you tell my mother in law who was almost killed by a handgun whats so funny. The proliferation of guns has not made America a safer place. The NRA just plays on your fears so gun manufacturers can sell even more guns. You seem to miss that I did not stop people from owning a gun in my proposal just high powered , high capacity guns.

 

Just how many children have to die before people like you see the light?

 

Even if it takes hundreds of years we need to get rid of hand guns.

 

Or it might be as Michael Moore suggested that Americans are just not mature enough to own guns. In Canada which has as many guns per capita (rifles, not handguns) they have a very low murder rate with handguns. Compare the handgun shooting rates of Windsor to Detroit. Can crossing the river make such a difference. Must be the water.

 

Hey PB you ever shoot somone in the back?

[mrd]

How long b4 the NRA insists that in order to defend ourselves we need to be able to carry concealed nuclear weapons?

[SFC]

Mrd, I and most of us understand where you are coming from but jumping off the nuclear cliff is not going to win you many arguments or change any minds. Stay within the realm of possibility.

[mrd]

The point of the nuclear option if you will is to show the absurdity taking to an extreme of weapons rights. It was not that long ago that people would have been totally aghast at anyone having an assault rifle. Now we "need" 30 round clips for handguns. Where do we stop? Weapons keep getting more and more sophisticated, but people do not.

 

Here are just some of the handgun related shooting from today: Another Day, More Deaths:Two Police Officers Shot And Killed In Kansas...3-Year-Old Accidentally Shoots Himself, Dies...Gunman At Large After Shooting Victim 4 Times...Man Shoots Wife...One Person Shot In San Antonio, Gunman Later Shot By Cops...Woman Shot At Campground...Woman Shot To Death, Son 'Thought She Was Sleeping'...3 Gunned Down In Grand Rapids

 

 

 

 

As Doctor Phil quips when someone reveals bad behavior:

 

 

"So hows that working out for you?"

 

Have more guns made us safer? O

r are there been more and more people killed by handguns? How many are saved by defending themselves with guns versus the number killed by guns. What is the ratio? As I have said to my friends who are NRA members:I am not scared of you carrying a gun it all those other people out there that have me worried. The murder's mother in Conn was a gun collector of some sort. How did those guns protect her? Face it we have caveman brains and hi tech weapons. We react emotionally to problems that should be thought out.

Edited December 17, 2012 by mrd

[knucklehead bob]

[CaveatLector]

I do believe the ready availability of these weapons is the main reason for the militarization of police, as well.

I concur. That highly publicized bank robbery in CA years ago was the tipping point for many agencies. The bank robbers had fully automatic weapons and the cops were no match. If I recall correctly the 2 robbers spent 2000 rounds of ammo. They were also heavily armored and the cops' handguns couldn't penetrate the armor.

 

Parenthetically, it should be noted that the Newtown massacre was accomplished with a rifle, and not a handgun, according to NY Times reports. The guess is that the shooter shot most of his victims at point-blank range due to apparent accuracy (I think all but one of the victims died). You have to be mentally ill to do that. No sane person could walk up to a defenseless 5-year-old and shoot them point-blank.

[mrd]

Politicians don't kill people pens do/ Or is it the ink?

 

That was dumb.

 

How often do we hear of a child accidently picking up a pen and killing themselves with it?

 

Politicians are a whole other topic that does not address the gun problem unless you want to address the money in politics issue where large groups and well monied individuals buy off our politicians. We need campaign reform so our politicians are not bought off by money or the promise of cushy jobs after they get out of office.

[mrd]

I concur. That highly publicized bank robbery in CA years ago was the tipping point for many agencies. The bank robbers had fully automatic weapons and the cops were no match. If I recall correctly the 2 robbers spent 2000 rounds of ammo. They were also heavily armored and the cops' handguns couldn't penetrate the armor.

 

Parenthetically, it should be noted that the Newtown massacre was accomplished with a rifle, and not a handgun, according to NY Times reports. The guess is that the shooter shot most of his victims at point-blank range due to apparent accuracy (I think all but one of the victims died). You have to be mentally ill to do that. No sane person could walk up to a defenseless 5-year-old and shoot them point-blank.

 

It might be true that the shooter used an assault rifle gut that does not change my point at all. I do stand corrected.

 

"AR-15s are not the only weapons used by rampaging shooters. Semiautomatic handguns are also frequently employed. In Newtown, two handguns were found at the scene, a 10mm Glock and a 9mm Sig Sauer, although the rifle is what Lanza used, spraying up to 11 bullets into each victim's body, according to the medical examiner. All three guns belonged to his mother, officials said." Tampa Bay Times

[knucklehead bob]

Cuts to Mental Health Services Could Lead to More Spree Killings

 

http://www.americanp...spree-killings/

 

 

Mental health agencies prepare for another round of funding cuts

 

http://www.crainsdet...of-funding-cuts

 

State Mental Health Cuts: The Continuing Crisis

 

In March, 2011, NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness, released State Mental Health Cuts: A National Crisis, a report documenting deep cuts to state spending on services for children and adults living with serious mental illness.1 These cuts, which occurred between 2009 and 2011, led to significant reductions in both hospital and community services for vulnerable individuals with serious mental illness.

http://www.nami.org/...get_cuts_report

Edited December 17, 2012 by knucklehead bob

[nthlghts]

Both the body armor and the automatics are illegal!

 

I concur. That highly publicized bank robbery in CA years ago was the tipping point for many agencies. The bank robbers had fully automatic weapons and the cops were no match. If I recall correctly the 2 robbers spent 2000 rounds of ammo. They were also heavily armored and the cops' handguns couldn't penetrate the armor.

 

Parenthetically, it should be noted that the Newtown massacre was accomplished with a rifle, and not a handgun, according to NY Times reports. The guess is that the shooter shot most of his victims at point-blank range due to apparent accuracy (I think all but one of the victims died). You have to be mentally ill to do that. No sane person could walk up to a defenseless 5-year-old and shoot them point-blank.

[mrd]

[SFC]

So you ban them tomorrow. There are already many millions of them here on the ground. No matter what they will end up grandfathered in. So we still have the same amount of guns tomorrow as we had today. The real problem here is people being negligent. Lanza's mother knew he was mental yet still bought a bushmaster and two semi-auto pistols for the house or him. This type of thing should NEVER, EVER happen! There definitely above all else needs to be some type of new psychological screening for assault rifle and pistol purchase, hell, maybe even all guns.

[shishka]

I do believe the ready availability of these weapons is the main reason for the militarization of police, as well.

 

To be sure, there are different kinds of freedom.

[peanutbutter]

Both the body armor and the automatics are illegal!

 

As criminals, they had access to more powerful weaponry than the police did at that moment.

 

Laws didn't keep the criminals unarmed.

 

Meanwhile, all the talk of gun control has cleaned off the shelves in gun supply stores.

 

My wife wants one. Something I NEVER heard her say before. The only way she can get one is if she gets rid of me first.

[peanutbutter]

So you ban them tomorrow. There are already many millions of them here on the ground. No matter what they will end up grandfathered in. So we still have the same amount of guns tomorrow as we had today. The real problem here is people being negligent. Lanza's mother knew he was mental yet still bought a bushmaster and two semi-auto pistols for the house or him. This type of thing should NEVER, EVER happen! There definitely above all else needs to be some type of new psychological screening for assault rifle and pistol purchase, hell, maybe even all guns.

 

Mom bought the guns and helped train the mentally ill person to use them.

 

Son had zero connection with the school.

 

Mom DID have a connection to the school.

[peanutbutter]

Killings by local police jump sharplyCALIFORNIA

Officers and deputies in L.A. County fatally shot 54 people last year, nearly 70% more than the year before.

June 10, 2012|Joel Rubin and Sarah Ardalani

 

The first deadly encounter of 2011 came quickly for police in Los Angeles County, when an officer killed an armed burglar on the second day of the year. The last person to be killed by police that year was shot a few days after Christmas in Palos Verdes after he allegedly beat his elderly father and pretended to point a gun at officers.

 

Between these ill-fated bookends, 52 other people throughout the county were shot fatally by police throughout 2011 -- significantly more law enforcement killings than the county typically experiences. Compared with the prior year, the 54 deaths amounted to a nearly 70% increase.

 

The high number of killings last year underscores a pronounced jump in the overall number of occasions in which officers fired their weapons at suspects. For example, the 63 shootings by officers from the Los Angeles Police Department in 2011 were a nearly 60% increase over the previous year.

 

The rise in killings by police is all the more notable because it occurred at a time when the overall number of homicides in the area had fallen to historic lows. With 612 people killed in the county last year, nearly 1 in every 10 such deaths occurred at the hands of law enforcement officers.

 

The Times has analyzed autopsy reports from each of the 54 killings by police in L.A. County last year and identified elements that were common to many of them. The review also highlights the extreme, sudden dangers police can encounter in the field and may raise doubts about whether, in some instances, the officers were justified in their decision to open fire.

 

Among the findings:

 

* All but six of the fatal shootings involved officers from either the Los Angeles Police Department or the county's Sheriff Department, which, taken together, patrol the vast majority of the county's roughly 10 million people. The other six were committed by police in Long Beach, Downey and Santa Monica.

 

* In two-thirds of the cases, the person shot by police was armed with a gun, knife or other weapon, whereas in 12 cases, the person was unarmed. In the remaining few cases, it was not clear from the autopsy reports whether the person killed was armed.

 

* Eighteen of the shootings -- one-third of the total -- occurred when officers were dispatched to respond to a report of shots being fired, an armed suspect or an assault with a deadly weapon. In at least 12 of those cases, the person shot by police was armed with a gun, a knife or a realistic-looking replica of a gun. By contrast, 12 shootings were set in motion not with a call for help, but rather with an officer's choice to initiate contact with someone he believed was acting suspiciously. In seven of those cases, the person shot by police was armed with a weapon.

 

What, if anything, drove the increase in killings by law enforcement officers last year is not clear.

 

Michael Gennaco, who heads the county's Office of Independent Review, said he's in the midst of examining the unusually large number of fatal shootings by sheriff's deputies to decipher the jump. "Until you really pull each of them apart, you don't know whether it was just a blip or if it is the start of an upward trend," he said.

[bobandtorey]

 

Mental Illness? Or the lack of professional care vs incarceration ?

I agree it is a mental thing

When i here of someone in Court for killing their Mom or Dad and choping them up and pleading Insanity and the judge has them Evaluated and they come back as being OK

 

I say how is that of cource you have a mental problem

[bobandtorey]

12,000 people a year die from illegal firearms

[Sledge]

NRA goes silent after Connecticut school shooting

 

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20121218/DA382BBG1.html

[bobandtorey]

I used to be a member of the NRA but back when they would not defend our gun rights as medical marijuana patients I dropped my membership

[Sledge]

I used to be a member of the NRA but back when they would not defend our gun rights as medical marijuana patients I dropped my membership

 

you and me both Bob

[shredder0911]

There was a woman in Fl who took her son to the shooting range, and then killed him first and then herself. Wondering now whether she knew something about her son, or whether she should have just been paired up with another son who actually deserved it. Hmmmm?

[CaveatLector]

I agree it is a mental thing

When i here of someone in Court for killing their Mom or Dad and choping them up and pleading Insanity and the judge has them Evaluated and they come back as being OK

 

I say how is that of cource you have a mental problem

Judges don't evaluate potentially mentally ill people. They are sent to the Center for Forensic Psychiatry in Ypsilanti to be evaluated before trial. Generally the decision as to whether someone can stand trial is then based on the report from the center.

[Restorium2]

Keep in mind the country you live in;

 

At just a hint that if Obama was re elected he would try to control guns, the applications for weapons permits doubled this year from the previous year. With that in mind, do you really think gun control is the answer for America? I would gladly give mine up if it meant that no child would ever be shot again. But I'm not your average gun toten American. And I'm not convinced that the people doing the murdering would give theirs up like I would. It feels good to slap a solution on this problem. But the solution will not feel good for long if it is a non starter for America. It will just be another thing we argue about in our divided country. I think improving security at schools is a better way to approach this situation. Probably the only viable one in today's America.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Restorium2

[Celliach]

1. Yes, but...

2.a) The propaganda being spewed on TV, #1. Killing others is OK. Happens on TV, its cool...

 

b.) The violence perpetuated by the video gaming industry. Possibly some percieve violence and killing as a viable solution. It works, and is promoted on tooo many games.

 

c.) Something about one parent families. they're not natural in that a child is entitled to two parents. ANYTHING less the child is being ripped off, and surely is somewhat resentful. Surely has to do with the dimineshed or lack of love and all the benefits derived from it.

 

d.) A very diminished concept of the Value of Life . including their own...

 

One parent families is BS!!!!!!!! I spent the first half of my childhood getting the bunny muffin beat out of me by a stepfather and the second half with a single parent, and I have no desire to go shoot up a school. It's a totally BS argument that has no facts to back it up. I'm tired of hearing right-wing conservatives demonizing single parents as their fall guys. Without single parents, minorities, and poor people the conservatives wouldn't have anybody to blame everything on.