Question For Folks Against Gun Control Laws

[phaquetoo]

solabeirtan "Maybe the teachers should be armed too,"

 

Best idea yet! yes arm the teachers!

 

Peace

Jim

 

edit= we see that arming the students isnt a good idea, so arm the teachers!!!!!!

Edited December 18, 2012 by phaquetoo

[bobandtorey]

Judges don't evaluate potentially mentally ill people. They are sent to the Center for Forensic Psychiatry in Ypsilanti to be evaluated before trial. Generally the decision as to whether someone can stand trial is then based on the report from the center.

You are right I agree they sent Torey to

 

one so I know firsthand

[phaquetoo]

One parent families is BS!!!!!!!! I spent the first half of my childhood getting the bunny muffin beat out of me by a stepfather and the second half with a single parent, and I have no desire to go shoot up a school. It's a totally BS argument that has no facts to back it up. I'm tired of hearing right-wing conservatives demonizing single parents as their fall guys. Without single parents, minorities, and poor people the conservatives wouldn't have anybody to blame everything on.

 

Cell Im so sorry to hear that, when I was growing up it was very rare that a kid didnt have both of their parents at home, true blood parents, now it is unusual for a kid in school to have both of their parents! people dont take marriage as serious as they did when my parents got married,,they just celebrated 55 yrs in oct! when I was a kid I had a few friends who's parents probably should have gotten divorced, but stayed together and usualy it was the father who came home drunk and terrorized the whole family! and the laws were not in place to protect the wife and kids at that time!

 

Peace all and Happy Holidays!

 

Jim

[Celliach]

What about the culture of fear that was propagated by the shooter's mother in this case. You've probably read by now that Mom was an End-time Hoarder that believed that world was ending. That's why the guns were in the house to begin with. That's why she had an assault rifle with 30 round clips. (Like that would help her in the "End Times" anyway.) This was a mentally unstable kid that was being raised to believe we are living at the end of the world by an apparently unstable mother. (Why else would she pattern her life on the world ending if she wasn't a bit unstable herself?) Why would he care about the ramifications of what he did? The world is ending anyway.

[Celliach]

solabeirtan "Maybe the teachers should be armed too,"

 

Best idea yet! yes arm the teachers!

 

Peace

Jim

 

edit= we see that arming the students isnt a good idea, so arm the teachers!!!!!!

 

What if the teacher is the mentally unstable person?

[phaquetoo]

What if the teacher is the mentally unstable person?

 

Idk, Im at a loss, its like the lunatics left the post office and are now moving into the schools!

 

Peace

Jim

[phaquetoo]

What about the culture of fear that was propagated by the shooter's mother in this case. You've probably read by now that Mom was an End-time Hoarder that believed that world was ending. That's why the guns were in the house to begin with. That's why she had an assault rifle with 30 round clips. (Like that would help her in the "End Times" anyway.) This was a mentally unstable kid that was being raised to believe we are living at the end of the world by an apparently unstable mother. (Why else would she pattern her life on the world ending if she wasn't a bit unstable herself?) Why would he care about the ramifications of what he did? The world is ending anyway.

 

This could have went either way, maybe the kid blamed the school and princaple and students for his mothers paranoia behavior and his life, always living in paranoia, maybe he got tired of it and killed his coo coo mom and every one he felt made her that way, either way, it is a bad bad experience, some one needs to find the answers, and the answer is not take our guns away, they should be alot more difficult to get, I just bought one at dunhams, it didnt take 15 mins, i was out the door with bullets and the new long gun! My back ground check does not have any fellonies on it! but maybe a 5 day waiting period on long guns would be in order, if a person had it in their minds they were going to kill some one or them selves, a 5 day waiting period could possibly save some lives!

 

Peace

Jim

[Celliach]

http://fogghorn.blogspot.ca/2012/12/whats-wrong-with-us.html

 

 

 

What's wrong with us?

 

 

 

This is what I'm going to say about this and this is all I'm going to say. We have a lot of firearms in the USA. We always have had. For a few, hunting for food or furs or hides and protection from wild animals makes them necessary. For many, protecting the hen house, the livestock, the crops, might require a firearm. For some a firearm is something you shoot at paper targets or clay pigeons with at the country club. For others, it puts meat on the table and for some, they can be relics of history prized for craftsmanship or beauty or historical value. For many, living in a violent and dangerous area, people who have to transport valuables, people who are a target for criminals for many reasons; having a gun is peace of mind. For such people, being associated with psychotics and terrorists and hit-men and bandits and deranged murderers is offensive and worthy of scornful denunciation. And don't we hear a lot of it?

 

We have a lot of people in this country who cannot conceive that any of the above will own one for any justifiable reason or that firearms exist for any other reason but to kill someone, and so these horrifying and otherwise useless pieces of metal must be made to disappear and right now and at all cost. If you don't agree with that, words will be placed in your mouth that prove how deranged you are so don't even try to explain. Many of those people, and they are in the minority, refuse to discuss what needs to be done to protect us all from crime and the grotesque results of a madman with a gun or a bomb unless and only unless there's a prior agreement to reduce or eliminate or severely curtail the right to own one. For them it's guns and guns alone that explain the needless death of innocents and the notion that the murderer is more guilty than his weapon is offensive and well worthy of scorn and mockery. It's all about guns, guns, guns and guns alone and don't we hear a lot about it?

 

Welcome to American fear, American extremism and American intransigence. Neither side will talk to the other with the intent to understand, just as with so many things America concerns itself with. Neither side will brook any discussion of the complexity of human behavior and motivation, the cost of reducing risk, the efficacy of anything that has already been tried or proposed, the "other side" certainly being so far into a delusional state or simply so committed to brutality and mayhem that there is no middle ground between "we must trust the people" and "it's too dangerous ever to trust the people" and no point to looking for it.

 

What will never be discussed is the very reason discussion is futile. That reason is us. What we don't want to talk about and what we cover up and distract from with epithets like Libtard or gun nut, with shibboleths like the NRA or the Brady Bunch or the Gungrabbers or the Gun Culture or even made up discussions is that it just may be that the enemy is not some piece of metal and explosive, some nefarious group of bogeymen, but something to do with who and what we Americans are and why we seem to be different, so angry, so afraid, so filled with self pity and lack of compassion. It just may have something to do with the reason Switzerland with a widespread love of shooting and hunting; Switzerland where there are 46 guns per hundred residents has virtually no gun crime, nobody shooting up the schools and movie theaters -- and the US with about twice as many has vastlymore than twice as much. What causes that difference is something we need to talk about. Without doing that, all we will hear are rationalizations of prejudice and peremptory proclamations of belief -- but that's up to you the people, because I'm too disgusted to give a darn any more

[Celliach]

Honestly, I don't think it's a question of gun control. (Although I feel that anyone with a handgun should be trained and licensed for the general safety of the population. Stray shots injure and kill a lot of people.) I think it's a question of how we deal with mental health. (Not too well since Reagan kicked all the crazies out of the mental institutes and the homeless population doubled overnight in the 80s.) I also think it's a question of our culture. Canada and Switzerland are full of guns. They have as many as we have in the US and those countries don't experience the gun violence that we do in this country.

[Restorium2]

Honestly, I don't think it's a question of gun control. (Although I feel that anyone with a handgun should be trained and licensed for the general safety of the population. Stray shots injure and kill a lot of people.) I think it's a question of how we deal with mental health. (Not too well since Reagan kicked all the crazies out of the mental institutes and the homeless population doubled overnight in the 80s.) I also think it's a question of our culture. Canada and Switzerland are full of guns. They have as many as we have in the US and those countries don't experience the gun violence that we do in this country.

Hmmm Canada anyone? Circa 1975;

 

The Brampton Centennial Secondary School massacre was a school shooting, which occurred at Brampton Centennial Secondary School in Brampton, Ontario. 16-year-old gunman Michael Slobodian shot and killed a fellow student, a teacher and injured 13 other students before turning the gun on himself and committing suicide in a school hallway. It was the first school shooting in Canada.^[18] Slobodian is the first recorded high-school killer in the country

[Celliach]

So Canada had a mass killing back in the 70s and you're going to compare that to the six mass shootings we've had in the past six months or so? Again, I stand by my statement, but I'll add one more word just for you resto. Canada doesn't experience the amount of gun violence that we do in this country. There's really no comparesion at all. I could just as easily pulled up a news article about there being no violent crime for 24 hours in NYC a few weeks ago and use it to argue that there's no problem with violence in that city.

[Restorium2]

So Canada had a mass killing back in the 70s and you're going to compare that to the six mass shootings we've had in the past six months or so? Again, I stand by my statement, but I'll add one more word just for you resto. Canada doesn't experience the amount of gun violence that we do in this country. There's really no comparesion at all. I could just as easily pulled up a news article about there being no violent crime for 24 hours in NYC a few weeks ago and use it to argue that there's no problem with violence in that city.

I can't see a big difference between America and Canada. Heck, you can hardly tell where the border is.

 

The interesting thing that happened;

 

I went on a search of mass school shootings in the past. I found the one above that sounded a lot like the recent one. Then I was surprised to see it was in Canada. Then I went to post it and you had posted about Canada not being like America with gun violence. How ironic that I would find that one? It's one of the most prominent mass school shooting documented and it's not in America. I believe it was worth pointing out.

[mrd]

How MANY mass shootings do we need to realize that is is happening over and over and it is not happening over and over in Cananda. You got fingers? Start counting!.

 

We banned assault rifles int he Brady Bill and then the hyperconservatives killed the bill in the Bush years. How's that working out. Remember the operative words "Assault Weapons". That is not Defensive weapons that is assault. How many children have to die before we see how the proliferation of extreme weapons and ammunition has hurt us all.?

Edited December 18, 2012 by mrd

[cristinew]

Guns are Illegal in Mexico how is that going??

[cristinew]

Heroin is illegal how is that going Cocaine is illegal how it that going

[Wild Bill]

If you don't understand why people want guns then why don't you put a sign on your house that says, "This House Is Gun Free"?

 

You'll probably see why we want them in very short order.

[peanutbutter]

The homeowner that posted this sign was sued.

 

The court ruled in the favor of the sign poster.

 

[SFC]

That was a great editorial Celli.

[Celliach]

Guns are Illegal in Mexico how is that going??

 

No they're not!!!!!!

 

 

Gun politics in Mexico covers the role firearms play as part of society within the limits of the United Mexican States.^[1] Current legislation sets the legality by which members of the armed forces, law enforcement and private citizens may acquire, own, possess and carry firearms; covering rights and limitations to individuals—including hunting and shooting sport participants, property and personal protection personnel such as bodyguards, security officers, private security, and extending to VIPs (diplomats, public officials,celebrities).^[2]

A common misconception is that firearms are illegal in Mexico and that no person may possess them.^[3] This belief originates due the general perception that only members of law enforcement, the armed forces, or those in armed security protection are authorized to have them. While it is true that Mexico possesses strict gun laws,^[4] where most types and calibers are reserved to military and law enforcement, the acquisition and ownership of certain firearms and ammunition remains a constitutional right to all Mexican citizens and foreign legal residents;^[5] given the requirements and conditions to exercise such right are fulfilled in accordance to the law.^[6]

The right to keep and bear arms was first recognized as a constitutional right under Article 10 of the Mexican Constitution of 1857.^[7]However, as part of the Mexican Constitution of 1917, Article 10 was changed^[8] where-by the right to keep and bear arms was given two separate definitions: the right to keep (derecho a poseer in Spanish) and the right to bear (derecho a portar in Spanish).^[9] The new version of Article 10 specified that citizens were entitled to keep arms (own them) but may only bear them (carry them) among the population in accordance to police regulation.^[10] This modification to Article 10 also introduced the so-called ...[arms] for exclusive use of the [military]... (in Spanish: ...de uso exclusivo del Ejército...), dictating that the law would stipulate which weapons were reserved for the armed forces, including law enforcement agencies, for being considered weapons of war.

In 1971, Article 10 of the present Constitution was reformed^[11] to limit the right keep arms within the home only (in Spanish: ...derecho a poseer armas en su domicilio...) and reserved the right to bear arms outside the home only to those explicitly authorized by law (i.e. police, military, armed security officers). The following year, the Federal Law of Firearms and Explosives came into force^[12] and gave the federal government complete jurisdiction and control to the legal proliferation of firearms in the country; at the same time, heavily limiting and restricting the legal access to firearms by civilians.

As a result of the changes to Article 10 of the Mexican Constitution and the enactment of the Federal Law of Firearms and Explosives, openly carrying a firearm or carrying a concealed weapon in public is virtually forbidden to private citizens, unless explicitly authorized by the Secretariat of National Defense (SEDENA). For purposes of personal protection, firearms are only permitted within the place of residence and of the type and caliber permitted by law

 

[Celliach]

Heroin is illegal how is that going Cocaine is illegal how it that going

 

People aren't using heroin and cocaine to kill other people.

 

While I agree that passing laws against gun ownership aren't the end all, be all solution to the problem, let's not use straw arguments that have no bearing on the subject.

[GregS]

Here you go, and have a nice day!

 

Now where did I see those black helicopters again??

[GregS]

It is to be recognized that the second amendment is about keeping an armed militia in the absence of a standing army, which was not intended at the time of the founding. The several states wished to keep the authority to maintain these militias rather than federalize defense, and prevailed in that argument at that time. Now that the US has the biggest, baddest, and ugliest military/industrial complex in human history, it is not so necessary to fear for our security to the point of owning large capacity semi-auto or full auto weapons.

 

Mental health issues should be shunted in as a priority under the Affordable Care Act just as soon as is humanly possible.

[Celliach]

http://news.yahoo.com/michigans-governor-vetoes-gun-bill-connecticut-massacre-212201780.html

 

Michigan's governor vetoes gun bill after Connecticut massacre

 

 

DETROIT (Reuters) - Michigan's Republican Governor Rick Snyder on Tuesday vetoed a bill that would have allowed some gun owners to bring concealed weapons to places such as schools and day care centers, his office said.

The bill passed the Republican-majority Michigan legislature last Thursday, the day before the mass shooting at a Newtown, Connecticut elementary schools left 26 dead, including 20 young children.

Snyder was already reluctant to sign the bill before the Connecticut incident, but that "heartbreaking" event gave him "extra pause," said Sara Wurfel, Snyder's press secretary. (Reporting By Bernie Woodall; Editing by Greg McCune)

[GregS]

And bullschit with the commissions and studies and song and dance that conservative groups are pushing for. Their intention is to strangle any progressive resolution. The issue has been front and center for years, all of the arguments have been reasonably well vetted, and all that remains is to do the right thing.

[mrd]

The homeowner that posted this sign was sued.

 

The court ruled in the favor of the sign poster.

 

PB you are insufficent. There is a vast difference between having free speech rights and being an asshat.