Need Help Grandpa Has Cancer

[CaveatLector]

So these butane people need to teach safety here.

 

If they are going to promote their method as "safer" they NEED to include instructions to avoid blowing themselves up.

And likewise you naptha types need to teach safety.  Maybe include a statement or 2 regarding how much other crap you are ingesting if you ingest product made with a naptha extraction?  What's good for the goose is good for the gander, no? 

 

Funny you should make the above statement even AFTER you resisted others' warnings regarding the safety of the naptha method.  Not only did you NOT teach safety but you actively asserted that naptha is safer than it really is.  Where is your disclaiimer?

[Highlander]

So these butane people need to teach safety here.

 

If they are going to promote their method as "safer" they NEED to include instructions to avoid blowing themselves up.

 

 

You are teaching people to blow themselves up.

 

WTF are you talking about?  How is telling people not to use naphtha telling them to be unsafe.

 

I'm telling people not to use naphtha to extract cannabis.  Show me where I told anybody to use any other method.  So please quit trying to shift the argument.  This has nothing to do with butane or anything else that isn't naphtha.

 

There was a gentleman who used to live in Owosso.  His name was Joe Penetcost, god rest his soul.  He blew himself up in his garage one day when cleaning some auto parts about 10 years ago.  He had used naphtha and didn't think before he lit up a cigar.  That's all it took.  He was a smart guy who owned a lot of property and was worth a good deal of money.  But he is dead now because he blew himself up with naphtha in his own garage.  Unbelievably sad. 

 

Nobody should do any extraction unless they are trained and have proper equipment and licenses.  It is illegal to use flammable chemicals in a manner inconsistent with their labels.  There is a reason for this.

 

If you don't have a fume hood, intrinsically safe exhaust fan and an explosimeter, you should not be performing any extraction with a flammable solvent. 

 

You are foolish to suggest that butane presents more of a danger than naphtha.  It all depends on the situation.  All of these solvents behave differently.  Some present a sudden and extreme explosion hazard but then then dissipate quickly.  The heavier solvents (naphtha) hang around for a lot longer.  In poor Joe's situation, the Haz-Mat folks said if he had been using a lighter/more volatile solvent such as acetone, the accident never would have happened.  Why?  Because the explosive vapors would have been long gone by the time poor Joe lit up. 

 

Second, did you know that gasses have a upper explosion limit?  Butane will not ignite if there is a concentration of vapors greater than 8.41%  On the other hand, ethyl alcohol will still ignite when vapors are as high as 19%.  Think about that for a minute.  I can be standing in a room with 15% butane vapors swirling around, and the stuff can't ignite.  But if I were standing in the same room with 15% ethyl alcohol fumes, the slightest ignition source would create a fireball.

 

Even if you have all of the necessary safety equipment and knowledge to perform such an extraction with proper regard to fire safety, you should still never ever use naphtha to extract cannabis.

 

Don't extract with naphtha.  Period.

 

And leave discussion of handling hazardous materials to people who are licensed appropriately.  This isn't a layperson's discussion, and you don't belong in it.  You should be listening and learning instead of making uneducated guesses about health and safety.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Highlander

[CaveatLector]

peanut,

 

[Highlander]

peanut,

 

I hope to Spaghetti Monster   **  Edited:  {freakin' auto-correct......can't I say "G-O-D" without the PC filter kicking in????..gimme a break.  OK pasta monster.....???? } that PB at least in the privacy of his own thoughts can put two and two together and maybe see the light and then help spread the word that using naphtha is a really Schuette way to extract cannabis.  I really do hope that he can set his ego aside and help with this and then spread the word.  We'll see. 

Edited May 20, 2013 by Highlander

[Kingdiamond]

Can we please not argue here Grandpa needs help .

[GregS]

Given the apparent risk in using petroleum based solvents, what is the potential for extraction into animal and vegetable fats and oils for cooking, which do not contain toxins, but only food, to include herb? Is that potential enough to deliver a similar dose of cannabinoids necessary to reach the therapeutic levels of the petroleum extracted product?

 

Howboutit Dr. Townsend?

Edited May 20, 2013 by GregS

[GregS]

By all means, go with the conventional

 

Can we please not argue here Grandpa needs help .

By all means, go with the conventional wisdom until and unless a better way is demonstrated. This may look like a pissing contest, and it is. But something useful might come from it.

[Highlander]

Can we please not argue here Grandpa needs help .

 

You don't think the discussion about naphtha extractions is helpful?  Can you be a bit more specific about what discussion matter you're trying to quell? 

 

I'm trying to let people know that "RSO" made from a naphtha extraction might be bad news.  Do you have an issue with this? 

 

Maybe you can better articulate what your concern is with regard to the direction of this discussion compared to the original intent to help Grandpa?

 

I'm trying to get people to understand that "RSO" might contain harmful petroleum products. 

 

I don't think Grandpa should be using a product that contains compounds similar to kerosene.  Maybe you can point me in another direction?  A new thread? 

 

How do you suggest we get others to understand that "RSO" will very likely contain harmful petroleum hydrocarbons??

[GregS]

peanut,

Cute.

[Highlander]

By all means, go with the conventional

 

By all means, go with the conventional wisdom until and unless a better way is demonstrated. This may look like a pissing contest, and it is. But something useful might come from it.

 

When I was in first grade, we boys would (well, some of us) would tinkle up to the ceiling rather than down to the urinal...we did have low ceilings....but it was always satisfying to be able to drench the ceiling 6' above and watch the drips drop on the next guy to step up to the porcelain.....

 

That's a pissing contest.

 

What we have here is a race between two schools of thought:

 

1.)  I'm an ego-driven wannabe who will hold onto the last shred of obtuse disagreement in a hope to become relevant

 

2.)  Facts.

 

PB already labeled himself as a #1.

 

It isn't my fault.

[Kingdiamond]

My post was directed at the plate of steaming  arse CL posted .

[GregS]

When I was in first grade, we boys would (well, some of us) would tinkle up to the ceiling rather than down to the urinal...we did have low ceilings....but it was always satisfying to be able to drench the ceiling 6' above and watch the drips drop on the next guy to step up to the porcelain.....

 

That's a pissing contest.

 

What we have here is a race between two schools of thought:

 

1.)  I'm an ego-driven wannabe who will hold onto the last shred of obtuse disagreement in a hope to become relevant

 

2.)  Facts.

 

PB already labeled himself as a #1.

 

It isn't my fault.

Great attitude Man.

[+washtenaut]

MY GRANDPA WAS DIAGNOSED WITH CANCER ON FRIDAY.HIS BACK STARTING HURTING BAD 2 WEEKS AGO WHICH TURNED INTO HIS DIGESTIVE SYSTEM NOT WORKING PROPERLY.HE WENT TO THE HOSPITAL THUR. THEY FOUND A TUMOR IN HIS LUNG WHICH TESTED POSITIVE FOR CANCER CELLS AND ALSO FOUND THEM IN HIS SPINAL FLUID.THE DOCTOR SAY ITS TERMINAL.HE DECIDED HE WOULD LIKE TO START CANNABIS TREATMENT ASAP. ANYONE WITH EXPERIENCE IN THESE TYPES OF SITUATIONS PLEASE CHIME IN HERE! 

 

 

That is the original posting.

 

The solvent discussion is very, very valuable and I certainly appreciate the information you folks have brought to the discussion.  It is however misplaced in this thread. 

 

Grandpa's main concern is not the residual solvents in the RSO.  I think flooding him with cannabinoids may be beneficial.  If the RSO is making him ill, stop immediately.  If he is tolerating the RSO well and it is relieving his pain, continue with your RSO regardless of solvent.  The cannabinoids may be slowing the progression of his cancer and it is at least as effective as the options presented by western medicine to relieve pain and help him sleep.  Consider it a clinical trial.

 

Highlander, you have provided a wealth of information here.  Thank you very much.    Maybe a Mod could copy this info into a new thread called something like 'Extracting Cannabinoids and Solvents.'

[Highlander]

My post was directed at the plate of steaming  arse CL posted .

 

Oh.

 

Well, I guess I never had anything against a hot arse.

 

 

*against*  heh

Edited May 21, 2013 by Highlander

[Highlander]

Great attitude Man.

 

I always interpret your posts with the necessary levels of sarcasm to conclude that you support my position.  Thank you for your support.

[GregS]

I always interpret your posts with the necessary levels of sarcasm to conclude that you support my position.  Thank you for your support.

Smart too.

 

You were sayin'?

Edited May 21, 2013 by GregS

[GregS]

I'm pretty toasted. Schmooze on Dude.

[CaveatLector]

My post was directed at the plate of steaming  arse CL posted .

In that case it should probably also be directed at the individual accusing others of trying to, "teach people to blow themselves up."   Nonsense begets the "huzzah!" attitude when the nonsense is not only ignorant but baseless. 

 

Imagine someone claiming that method B (naptha) extractions is sooo safe for you and then hanging on to every last thread of hope that your claim is legit--only to have your arse handed to you several times in the process. 

 

Switching gears a bit, I like Greg's query regarding cooking oils.  Most here are probably aware of the cannabutter method of extraction.  I suppose maybe the more informed on the topic could let us know how much product is left behind or lost in the process.  It would seem that it would be hard to get the concentrations acheived through butane, or other extractions, without somehow rending off a lot of the oil and somehow leaving the thc behind. 

[GregS]

Tomorrow I look into ecigarettes that are compatible with cannabis. If they are appropriate I intend to offer them for sale.

[GregS]

In that case it should probably also be directed at the individual accusing others of trying to, "teach people to blow themselves up."   Nonsense begets the "huzzah!" attitude when the nonsense is not only ignorant but baseless. 

 

Imagine someone claiming that method B (naptha) extractions is sooo safe for you and then hanging on to every last thread of hope that your claim is legit--only to have your arse handed to you several times in the process. 

 

Switching gears a bit, I like Greg's query regarding cooking oils.  Most here are probably aware of the cannabutter method of extraction.  I suppose maybe the more informed on the topic could let us know how much product is left behind or lost in the process.  It would seem that it would be hard to get the concentrations acheived through butane, or other extractions, without somehow rending off a lot of the oil and somehow leaving the thc behind. 

I have used it extracted into canola and olive oils. Peanut, corn, and soybean oils will work just as well. Because I have a heart conditon, it is necessary that I stay away from animal fats and processed margarines. Incorporating it into food works wonders, and keeps me, um, medicated, um, what was I gonna say? Somethin' about making a nice mushroom alfredo or seafood newberg while enjoying a nice Chadonnay? Um, a homemade salad dressing with spiked olive oil, wine vinegar, herbs and spices? Crushed bud on garlic bread?

Edited May 21, 2013 by GregS

[GregS]

How about a standing rib or prime rib, with a special yorkshire pudding, along with a merlot or burgundy?

Edited May 21, 2013 by GregS

[FLOWERING ANNUALS]

Can we please not argue here Grandpa needs help .

THANK YOU!

[t-pain]

if grandpa can still drink things, you may want to see if he likes drinking a raw cannabis leaf juice.

maybe mixed with carrot or strawberry juice to settle the flavor.

 

theres been a lot of hoopla about raw cannabis juices helping with things (not neccesarily cancer, but other symptoms).

and of course, more cannabis cant hurt. theres a thread in the forums about it if you want to read more.

so dont throw away those fan leaves, start juicing!

 

instead of using non-edible solvents, you can make budder out of buds. just grind up the buds, add them to melted butter on super low heat , stir, strain off buds. eat butter. there are many budder recipes on the site to check out. i dont know whats best.

 

i've heard you can also put bud in a bottle of oil and let it soak out that way, come back in a month and the oil changes to green and absorbs some of the thc. maybe theres a better recipe?

 

it looks like you can do a dry ice extraction, then mix that hash/powder with cooking/hemp oil as well.

there is instructions here:

http://cannabisni.com/growing-tips-and-advice/1900-thc-oil-made-safely-and-naturally

 

whatever you decide to do, make sure you are outside and wearing protection if dealing with anything flammable/explosive!

 

theres also a recipe in the old 1920s pharmacopia, if you want to go oldschool on making the "standard fluidextract of cannabis":

http://antiquecannabisbook.com/Appendix/USP1926.htm

 

remember that 99% iso is non-edible while the everclear is edible.

 

the above is not medical advice. i am not a doctor.

Edited May 21, 2013 by t-pain

[peanutbutter]

And leave discussion of handling hazardous materials to people who are licensed appropriately.  This isn't a layperson's discussion, and you don't belong in it.  You should be listening and learning instead of making uneducated guesses about health and safety.

 

Every news story about oil labs in houses exploding, is from butane.

 

House fires? other solvents.

 

Who made you omnipotent and able to shut down my input?

[mibrains]

i can add that i sometimes make butter.

 

myself and one of my patients who has chrons cannot ingest the BHO or RSO and tolerate it very well... it tends to upset our digestive track and cause more trouble then it helps.

 

i prefer to make my own Marmels (medicated caramel) with my extracted cannabutter

 

another of my patients only uses everclear and then makes rock candy or topical salves..

 

some people can't tolerate the residual elements left behind by a chemical stripping processes.

 

natural organic elemental isolation is going to be better every time in my personal opinion.

 

ice.

dry ice.

juice.

eaten directly

or dissolve in natural oils or fats.

 

i have made ice water extracted hash several times.

have not yet eaten it..

i should assume it would be as good if not better than BHO to eat..

 

it has all the elements of cannabis you want without the use of any solvents to extract it.

 

takes longer.

has to be decarboxolized.

 

yields are probably comparable.

 

also..

greg the omicron will use both nicotine cartridges and cannabis ones. i know someone who uses it for both...

 

and remember folks...

use caution when eating or vaporizing anything cannabis related.. the doses are concentrated and personal metabolism plays a factor in the relief achieved and duration of symptom control..

a newer person being exposed to cannabis treatments should start out slow and build up some tolerance a bit...