A Case Study In A State Reverting From Medical 420?

[CaveatLector]

Cav

 

No.

 

Seriously though, read the rest of that post. Thanks.

I did.  But the rest of the post isn't relevant.  You said you worked at a hydro store in a state without med mj laws.  That means the hydro store sprung up based on different market forces so it is no mystery why it is still sustaining on those very same market forces.

 

In this state the hydro stores sprung up based on demand created by med mj.  To suggest that they are still somehow staying open based on other market forces doesn't make any sense.  I could see SOME staying open but to suggest they are all sustaining themselves based on other types of growing is just a conclusory statement with no basis in fact other than what you are guessing based on a single hydro store you worked at in some other state.  That's quite the tightrope walk you are doing.

[Hayduke]

seriously OG, you are skatin' on pretty thin ice...

 

are you all knowing, able to defend and attack without ever really giving an opinion?

 

I have read it all and more.  Boring when it comes to gleaning your position.  You just seem to have an obsession for Mal and Celi...

 

have fun... it only reflects on you...

 

out

[OG Fire Beaster]

I've given my opinions many times. Yes, I will defend when attacked. I will also send some of the crap I get right back out. No I am not all knowing, I happen to know more than some though. A lot of people get thrown under the bus for no reason other than it being an easy route to take. Tired of what I have to say? I'm tired of the broad sweeping dispensary attacks. Tell it like it is, that it really is a minority of dispensary interests that are the problem, then Ill stop defending them so hard. It takes two to tango. Anybody that you think I have a problem with it is because they started getting snarky with me first. The people I argue with continually make the same statements about why they attack dispensaries, some lobbying spokesperson attacked us first, so were are justified in what we do. Goes both ways.

[Hayduke]

OG, here is the truth:  Dispensaries are currently illegal in Michigan.

 

Deal with it.

 

Marijuana has not been decriminalized or legalized.

 

Deal with it.

 

We have a pretty good Medical Marijuana law in Michigan, how about taking that one to the dance and not mixing all the causes together.  They are not mutually inclusive or exclusive, but one is legal and the rest are not.  Count your blessings, or move to Washington or Colorado or California if you truly believe the grass is greener.  You are not going to be seeing the broad changes you wish for in Michigan this session.  Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

[SFC]

You are hilarious OG. Your post about people going to the hydro stores to buy gear to grow ornamentals is rich.  Also you totally spun away from the substance of my post, which is there are way more than 37,000 grows in Michigan right now.  All of your arguments are weak, weak, weak , weak. They are the same shredded and debunked arguments you have been making since the day you joined the MMMA.  Fail.

[OG Fire Beaster]

Read my posts again please.

 

No where did I say there were 37,000 home grows.

 

I said there were 30K+ cgs and 100k+ patients.

 

How many of those cgs are maxed out?

 

How many of those patients dont grow?

 

I said I thought there were probably 50k and later agreed that it was probably closer to 75k

 

The point being that potentially almost half of the people with a card dont have grows and would gladly acquire from black market(traditional, disp, FM, etc)

 

That post was a fail.

 

Still spreading your BS I see.

[OG Fire Beaster]

The point is hydro stores service other clients besides medical growers. Critical thinking is your friend.

 

On a side note. How many of those stores are price gouging, selling unneeded equipment, overselling, and selling to one off customers?

 

Why no uproar from you about how they are ripping people off? Is that your agenda peeking through again?

[CaveatLector]

The point is hydro stores service other clients besides medical growers. Critical thinking is your friend.

 

On a side note. How many of those stores are price gouging, selling unneeded equipment, overselling, and selling to one off customers?

 

Why no uproar from you about how they are ripping people off? Is that your agenda peeking through again?

Hydro stores pose no risk of trying to take over individual grows.  If anything they would want pts to retain grow rights.  I don't think the uproar is about the rip off as much as it is about the potential to bring in money that can lobby and force out individual grows.  I think that if the only problem with dispensary interests was the rip off pricing that the market would take care of that.  The market cannot help anyone if individual grow rights are taken away.

[OG Fire Beaster]

I agree with that completely Cav.

 

The interests are big buisness and crony politics that pose the danger. Not a dispensary as an entity. Maybe all the hate should be directed at the actual groups and people that are attempting these things rather than the vehicle which they are trying to create the profit from.

[CaveatLector]

I agree with that completely Cav.

 

The interests are big buisness and crony politics that pose the danger. Not a dispensary as an entity. Maybe all the hate should be directed at the actual groups and people that are attempting these things rather than the vehicle which they are trying to create the profit from.

In an ideal world that would be the way to go.  However, no one is going to come in and announce what their ultimate goal is (to corner the grow markets and force out the competition from individuals).  They will come in as wolves in sheeps' clothing and claiming to represent the interests of the little guys.  It won't be until the dispensaries become an institution that has big money behind it that they will then swoop in and try to change things.  It's business and market forces will always force little guys.  Or at least they will try.  They wouldn't be representing the interests of their constituency if the dispensary lobbyists didn't do this eventually.

[SFC]

Big difference between stores and dispensaries. With hydro stores if they are charging to much you can go right online and order the same product for less. So basically their is a price ceiling they must contend with. And seriously, drop the indoor vegetable BS, lol

[Northern Lab]

If they did consider this, can you see where maybe, just maybe there is a difference between offering testing while opposing required testing....vs supporting mandatory testing? I guess not.

 

I look at results.

 

The results I see are that time and again Mal and Cel have railed against mandatory testing.

 

Northern Labs advocated testing on his own website.

 

.....results.....start with results and work backwards.......

Ask malamute about the report I wrote on MTA and gave him when Ken and the boys were spouting off about mandatory testing.

 

Then decide if I'm for mandates or not...

Edited June 5, 2013 by Northern Lab

[greenbuddha]

?

 

It was specifically MPP and ASA that introduced the bill language to the legislature in Nevada.

 

I believe it was also MPP and ASA that helped get 'Michigan' its MMJ law as well.

 

And in the states where there is a 'hardcore anti-cannabis' government, state santioned 'dispensaries' may be a good tactic for putting the 'state' government in the way of 'federal' tampering with MMJ laws: it's harder to take on the state than it is to raid an independent grower.

 

But none of these MMJ efforts are perfect, and only time is going to sort these things out.

 

And in the meantime...

 

P.S.  Cannabis should be 'legal' and a person should be able to grow at least six plants for personal use.

[Hayduke]

I don't know what is any input ASA had on the Michigan law.  I don't believe they were involved to any great degree.

 

MPP was quite active on writing the law in Michigan, but by the Summer of 2011 when I had lunch with Karen O'Keefe from MPP, she told me that there would be no more caregiver models because they did not poll well.  Personally I think she was not quite candid, and the real truth was people like George Soros and Peter Lewis pulled their financing after Rob Kampia had the sex scandal with an employee, so they needed a new stream of revenue to push their goals forward.  I believe the dispensary proponents essentially bought off the ear of MPP in exchange for pushing dispensaries and local control on a national basis.

 

When Karen testified on 4271 a couple weeks ago, I saw no sign that my opinion was incorrect.

[greenbuddha]

I don't know what is any input ASA had on the Michigan law.  I don't believe they were involved to any great degree.

 

MPP was quite active on writing the law in Michigan, but by the Summer of 2011 when I had lunch with Karen O'Keefe from MPP, she told me that there would be no more caregiver models because they did not poll well.  Personally I think she was not quite candid, and the real truth was people like George Soros and Peter Lewis pulled their financing after Rob Kampia had the sex scandal with an employee, so they needed a new stream of revenue to push their goals forward.  I believe the dispensary proponents essentially bought off the ear of MPP in exchange for pushing dispensaries and local control on a national basis.

 

When Karen testified on 4271 a couple weeks ago, I saw no sign that my opinion was incorrect.

 

Yep... I'd say we've still got some work to do.

 

And maybe someday it'll all be perfect.

[Hayduke]

perfect is not the goal for me.  Workable is the goal.

 

as long as the ASA, MPP and the dispensary proponents bash homegrows, caregivers, et al.... and suggest they are not subject to the same growing issues, well, I will oppose their efforts.

 

Ask em when the next hearing possibly could be for HB 4271.... maybe next fall, maybe not at all.

 

Now they need to whore themselves out a bit more with the banning caregivers crowd and raise another $100,000 to try and thwart our current law and system.

 

I hope they run out of money.

[t-pain]

And seriously, drop the indoor vegetable BS, lol

 

this is so hydro stores dont get in trouble with the feds.

 some rule out there about encouraging illegal activity or some such.

 

@heyduke:  if you talk to any of these law/bill/ballot writing groups, please ask them to reschedule marijuana at the state level while they are doing it. i talked to someone at mpp for a while about rescheduling and they kept thinking i was talking about federal rescheduling. maybe they dont know states have thier own drug schedules... 

[CaveatLector]

this is so hydro stores dont get in trouble with the feds.

 some rule out there about encouraging illegal activity or some such.

Whether hydro stores are holding themselves out to be veggie growing stores is not relevant to whether that is their bread and butter business. 

 

Before med mj paraphernalia was made legal head shops used to have signs in them that would indicate THESE PIPES ARE SOLD FOR TOBACCO SMOKING ONLY.  One head shop near me also had a sign that indicated that if anyone even mentioned buying a glass pipe to smoke mj that they would be asked to leave. 

 

Do those signs and that selling "front" mean that tobacco smokers were the primary supporters of a business selling bongs and glass pipes?  No.  The discussion here was concerning whether hydro shops have actually evolved into selling to home veggie and orchid growers as their primary customers and not whether they just claim that they sell to such customers.

[Highlander]

Ask malamute about the report I wrote on MTA and gave him when Ken and the boys were spouting off about mandatory testing.

 

Then decide if I'm for mandates or not...

 

This would be inconsistent with what I have found to be the most effective way to evaluate a matter.. As i said...I look at results and then work backwards.....

 

The result I see is that your website advocated wide-spread testing...

 

Put a big old banner on yer website that declares the opposite of what you said before. Then let's talk

[michaelscott]

This would be inconsistent with what I have found to be the most effective way to evaluate a matter.. As i said...I look at results and then work backwards.....

 

The result I see is that your website advocated wide-spread testing...

 

Put a big old banner on yer website that declares the opposite of what you said before. Then let's talk

Maybe, just maybe there is a difference between advocacy for testing and advocacy for state required testing of all grows.

 

I advocate for individuals and small businesses to get their taxes done professionally, I do not advocate for a federal law to require it.

 

Again to call him an enemy to home growers by the admin here is ridiculous and very sorry that it is tolerated.

[SFC]

I don't know that I would go so far as to call Northern the enemy, but he definitely walks back and forth across the line..

 

He was trying to capitalize/exploit this law.He was banking on testing, in turn his moral compass got a little screwed up.

Edited June 5, 2013 by SFC

[Highlander]

I don't know that I would go so far as to call Northern the enemy, but he definitely walks back and forth across the line..

 

He was trying to capitalize/exploit this law.He was banking on testing, in turn his moral compass got a little screwed up.

 

The law benefits patients most...and CGs a close second.

 

A lot of others have tried to climb on board....from the perspective of a non-patient and non-CG.

 

Northern Labs is one of them.....a commercial interest riding on a compassionate law......

 

I have nothing against his capitalism.....but it is what it is......and should be seen as such.  Separate from the needed protections for patients and CGs.  He has his own row to hoe....he shouldn't try to ride the MMMA.

[northerngal]

Well since this thread is already so far from topic.......

 

How many of you have actually met "Northern Labs"?  How many of you have actually spoken to him? 

 

I bet if many of you asked him these questions in person and LISTENED to his answers, you wouldn't peg him an enemy of anything mmj.

 

Northern Labs has graciously helped me out with the campassion club for the past 2 years.  (NON-dispensing club)   He is one I know I can count on to back up meetings and help where he is needed.  I advise based on the law, he backs that 100%.   He has NEVER once mentioned mandated testing or "pushed" testing on our club members.  Many of our members liked testing, the new growers liked to see how there meds were "ranking" with others and some of the more seasoned growers liked having other material tested.  (oils, etc)  They were very disappointed when he closed the lab. 

 

It saddens me that a man that has so much to offer the community is "shunned" here by so many.  He is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to "scientific cannabis stuff" and has so much to offer those learning.   We need people like this in the community.  People willing to share their knowledge with others.

 

I can see how people would believe what they do - based on words on a website. (Is that website even functional anymore??)   He has defended his position many times over, I can understand his frustration.   How many times does a person need to explain himself,when very few are getting it?

 

I stay out of others battles typically, but c'mon people.......Calling him an enemy is WAY OFF BASE.

 

I challenge you.  If you get the chance out in the community, stop and speak to "NorthernLabs", I think your opinion would be different.

 

 

 

On another note, perhaps a fundraiser for the club is in order.  Dunk booth starring Northern Labs.     Heck, maybe I can even get Phaquetoo to sit in there for an hour

[Northern Lab]

This would be inconsistent with what I have found to be the most effective way to evaluate a matter.. As i said...I look at results and then work backwards.....

 

The result I see is that your website advocated wide-spread testing...

 

Put a big old banner on yer website that declares the opposite of what you said before. Then let's talk

Of course I wanted people to use my services, but of their own free will. I never have and do not now support a mandate.

 

  

Well since this thread is already so far from topic.......

 

How many of you have actually met "Northern Labs"?  How many of you have actually spoken to him? 

 

I bet if many of you asked him these questions in person and LISTENED to his answers, you wouldn't peg him an enemy of anything mmj.

 

Northern Labs has graciously helped me out with the campassion club for the past 2 years.  (NON-dispensing club)   He is one I know I can count on to back up meetings and help where he is needed.  I advise based on the law, he backs that 100%.   He has NEVER once mentioned mandated testing or "pushed" testing on our club members.  Many of our members liked testing, the new growers liked to see how there meds were "ranking" with others and some of the more seasoned growers liked having other material tested.  (oils, etc)  They were very disappointed when he closed the lab. 

 

It saddens me that a man that has so much to offer the community is "shunned" here by so many.  He is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to "scientific cannabis stuff" and has so much to offer those learning.   We need people like this in the community.  People willing to share their knowledge with others.

 

I can see how people would believe what they do - based on words on a website. (Is that website even functional anymore??)   He has defended his position many times over, I can understand his frustration.   How many times does a person need to explain himself,when very few are getting it?

 

I stay out of others battles typically, but c'mon people.......Calling him an enemy is WAY OFF BASE.

 

I challenge you.  If you get the chance out in the community, stop and speak to "NorthernLabs", I think your opinion would be different.

 

 

 

On another note, perhaps a fundraiser for the club is in order.  Dunk booth starring Northern Labs.     Heck, maybe I can even get Phaquetoo to sit in there for an hour

Thanks for your kind words.

 

I'll do the dunk tank, but only if it's $5 a ball!

[SFC]

I don't doubt you northerngal. I kind of like him most of the time myself.  But sometimes bro you just go in swinging for no reason and as you are well aware nothing is EVER forgotten on the interwebs.